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Star Wars: The Old Republic |OT2| In a F2Play galaxy far, far away

Miletius

Member
This is a good argument and I don't really have an answer. My question for you is this: if you gave a permanent unlock to warzones or operations, how much would it have to cost? I just don't see a feasible dollar number that anyone would agree on.

Now if it was a month, or three months, or six months, maybe...but Bioware has to keep bringing in money, and if you unlock warzones for say $15 or $20 (anything less would be a complete joke) by the second or third month they are losing revenue because you never need to buy anything ever again. It's just not realistic IMO.

I agree that currently the model is disconnected because it's trying to give subscribers value to keep their sub. But I think that their thinking is flawed.

Lets say that 10 dollars per warzone would be fair. (I know you suggested more). With 4 zones (don't know if there's been more since I left), that's 2 1/2 months worth of subscription revenue per person who wants to unlock.

Apply that to flashpoints and ops (maybe 5 per FP/OP) and maybe 10 dollars per endgame areas (there are 3 right now that are for 60 content, correct?), you'd have to purchase 19x5, 3x10 or 165 for just zone unlocks, or 11 months sub just to unlock everything at endgame currently. I think that's more than a fair tradeoff, most people won't be playing for 11 months and you are getting a huge boost of revenue.

That's just content too -- you also have people unlocking cosmetics, bank slots, and other goodies just to make them equal to sub players. Plus, sub players get guaranteed access to new content at no additional charge and a monthly coin stipend. Yes, not everybody will unlock everything, but if you intelligently place content on the store you give both sub players and f2p players value. I don't think they are currently thinking about that in a way that makes sense.
 
I agree that currently the model is disconnected because it's trying to give subscribers value to keep their sub. But I think that their thinking is flawed.

Lets say that 10 dollars per warzone would be fair. (I know you suggested more). With 4 zones (don't know if there's been more since I left), that's 2 1/2 months worth of subscription revenue per person who wants to unlock.

Apply that to flashpoints and ops (maybe 5 per FP/OP) and maybe 10 dollars per endgame areas (there are 3 right now that are for 60 content, correct?), you'd have to purchase 19x5, 3x10 or 165 for just zone unlocks, or 11 months sub just to unlock everything at endgame currently. I think that's more than a fair tradeoff, most people won't be playing for 11 months and you are getting a huge boost of revenue.

That's just content too -- you also have people unlocking cosmetics, bank slots, and other goodies just to make them equal to sub players. Plus, sub players get guaranteed access to new content at no additional charge and a monthly coin stipend. Yes, not everybody will unlock everything, but if you intelligently place content on the store you give both sub players and f2p players value. I don't think they are currently thinking about that in a way that makes sense.

This though goes back to the problem they have that they don't have enough to offer and make money off of. They don't want to lose subs because they don't have enough content to sell via microtransactions. If they sell of perm unlocks for the various content right now, it leaves very little at all to sell in their cash shop.

It would be expensive to unlock what you are suggesting if your going to do it per wz/fp/etc, and I think that could be a negative against the population for endgame play in the long run. A straight up unlock fee for all I think would be a better incentive. And still you need to give subs a major incentive which math wise is going to be hard to achieve somehow with what they have. Most F2P games are able to ignore subs since they already were almost dead and any sub incentives were poor and just their to appease those players who purchased lifetime subscriptions, as huge chunk just ditch to the f2p model. TOR just has way to much coming in sub fees at the moment and not enough content to sell to make up for that loss.
 

CzarTim

Member
I know it's too late for the GW2 model now, I'm just pointing out that they are giving away what people are really interested in while completely screwing the people who might actually stick around.

"Welcome, fresh level 50 who wants to PVP, you are going to be destroyed until you can equip artifact gear. First give us ~$5 to get your quick bars. Now pay us ~$2.75 a week to lose. Don't worry about the grind though, it'll take even longer since the prices are increased for non-sub. Oh by the way, pay us ~$13 to use this stuff. And, just in case you still have your dignity intact, all of this is only unlocked for this character. Pay us double if you want to play an alt. Yes, even the weekly passes."

"Wow, what a steep barrier of entry for a game that just gave me 80+ hours of free content. Let me think for two seconds... No thanks, I'll go play any number of other games that doesn't charge me for ridiculous things. It's too bad, I might have spent some money on cosmetic stuff if I were going to playing. Thanks for spending 100s of millions of dollars making this game though"

Why are they going F2P? They have a trial already. They are basically forcing people to subscribe if they want to take part in the game further, and if that's what people actually wanted from this game then it wouldn't need to go F2P.
 

Anoregon

The flight plan I just filed with the agency list me, my men, Dr. Pavel here. But only one of you!
Tim has the crux of it. I'm not really concerned with people who are looking to play the game totally free due to only being interested in the story/leveling aspect, because those are exactly the kind of people who will have no incentive to keep playing at 50 anyway. The issue is for those people who hit 50 and actually want to experience more of the game, but then realize the non-subscription options for doing so are not very attractive. A F2P model that hinges itself on the idea of people hitting max level and then subscribing is just not a good model.
 
I know it's too late for the GW2 model now, I'm just pointing out that they are giving away what people are really interested in while completely screwing the people who might actually stick around.

"Welcome, fresh level 50 who wants to PVP, you are going to be destroyed until you can equip artifact gear. First give us ~$5 to get your quick bars. Now pay us ~$2.75 a week to lose. Don't worry about the grind though, it'll take even longer since the prices are increased for non-sub. Oh by the way, pay us ~$13 to use this stuff. And, just in case you still have your dignity intact, all of this is only unlocked for this character. Pay us double if you want to play an alt. Yes, even the weekly passes."

"Wow, what a steep barrier of entry for a game that just gave me 80+ hours of free content. Let me think for two seconds... No thanks, I'll go play any number of other games that doesn't charge me for ridiculous things. It's too bad, I might have spent some money on cosmetic stuff if I were going to playing. Thanks for spending 100s of millions of dollars making this game though"

Why are they going F2P? They have a trial already. They are basically forcing people to subscribe if they want to take part in the game further, and if that's what people actually wanted from this game then it wouldn't need to go F2P.

Because not everyone is going to ever see such a barrier, especially players who have no interest in stuff like pvp, which in a MMO is a large percentage of players always. And the lvl 50 pvp example is a bit much since it's going to take on average players 120-150 hours of time investment to even get that far, while the whole time they still could play their pvp matches weekly. And endgame play is only going to appeal to a smaller portion of the player base in either way.

The trial is a deterrent as it can be done in 3 hours, while a f2p system lets player play most of the game for free, while you lure them to spend little bits of money here and their instead of turning them away with a sub fee which will have them never try the game in the first place. A trial is NOTHING like the F2P system, as the F2P system has far more potential to bring in more money. Every game has a limited free trial, but it doesn't bring in the players. Make your game go f2p with tons of content for free? That brings in tons of potential money.

Tim has the crux of it. I'm not really concerned with people who are looking to play the game totally free due to only being interested in the story/leveling aspect, because those are exactly the kind of people who will have no incentive to keep playing at 50 anyway. The issue is for those people who hit 50 and actually want to experience more of the game, but then realize the non-subscription options for doing so are not very attractive. A F2P model that hinges itself on the idea of people hitting max level and then subscribing is just not a good model.

People who are into the game for storyline play, are usually not going to give a damn about endgame content. What they will buy? More actual game content, new zones/quests, planets, etc. Only a small amount of the player base ever gets into raiding or endgame pvp
 

Cystm

Member
Tim has the crux of it. I'm not really concerned with people who are looking to play the game totally free due to only being interested in the story/leveling aspect, because those are exactly the kind of people who will have no incentive to keep playing at 50 anyway. The issue is for those people who hit 50 and actually want to experience more of the game, but then realize the non-subscription options for doing so are not very attractive. A F2P model that hinges itself on the idea of people hitting max level and then subscribing is just not a good model.

It's a fantastic model in that regard. You get to level at your own pace, choose to buy whatever you are interested in, without feeling the "pressures" of getting your monies worth that apparently comes with paying for a sub.
 

Anoregon

The flight plan I just filed with the agency list me, my men, Dr. Pavel here. But only one of you!
I'm talking about the F2P model of TOR and what it can do compared to TOR's trial. They are nothing alike and offer completely different experiences and have completely different potential.

There is no situation in which a F2P model is not similar to a free trial. They both exist for the same reasons and function similarly; to draw potential customers in at no cost and hope they enjoy the experience enough to pay for more of it. Any F2P model, TOR's included, exists to function as a relatively expansive free trial with the goal of getting people time-invested enough in the game to start investing actual money in their progression/options.
 

CzarTim

Member
Because not everyone is going to ever see such a barrier, especially players who have no interest in stuff like pvp, which in a MMO is a large percentage of players always. And the lvl 50 pvp example is a bit much since it's going to take on average players 120-150 hours of time investment to even get that far, while the whole time they still could play their pvp matches weekly. And endgame play is only going to appeal to a smaller portion of the player base in either way.

The trial is a deterrent as it can be done in 3 hours, while a f2p system lets player play most of the game for free, while you lure them to spend little bits of money here and their instead of turning them away with a sub fee which will have them never try the game in the first place. A trial is NOTHING like the F2P system, as the F2P system has far more potential to bring in more money. Every game has a limited free trial, but it doesn't bring in the players. Make your game go f2p with tons of content for free? That brings in tons of potential money.

People who are into the game for storyline play, are usually not going to give a damn about endgame content. What they will buy? More actual game content, new zones/quests, planets, etc. Only a small amount of the player base ever gets into raiding or endgame pvp


You can just as easily replace the WZ stuff in my example with FPs, but since the only real reason to gear up that way is so you can do OPs, which requires a subscription, it's a bit moot.

What you are saying is contradictory. If only a small portion of people will want to play the end game, why deter even more potential long term players with, quite frankly, insulting itemization? These people are more likely to spend more than a "little bit of money here or there." Why disincentivize them from continuing to play by tunneling them towards a subscription that kept them from playing in the first place? Why not just offer them cosmetic/fun stuff to keep them around longer?

Meanwhile most people will only be playing the story content, and will see little reason to pay anything since most of the subscription offerings are aimed at a, as you put it, small demographic of people who wish to keep playing at 50.

Of course they'll see a big influx of players regardless, but I don't see this as a long term solution to the problem.
 
There is no situation in which a F2P model is not similar to a free trial. They both exist for the same reasons and function similarly; to draw potential customers in at no cost and hope they enjoy the experience enough to pay for more of it. Any F2P model, TOR's included, exists to function as a relatively expansive free trial with the goal of getting people time-invested enough in the game to start investing actual money in their progression/options.

They are similar in intention, but totally different in approach and implementation. TOR trial is nothing like their F2P model. This is getting ridiculous and into semantics territory.

You can just as easily replace the WZ stuff in my example with FPs, but since the only real reason to gear up that way is so you can do OPs, which requires a subscription, it's a bit moot.

What you are saying is contradictory. If only a small portion of people will want to play the end game, why deter even more potential long term players with, quite frankly, insulting itemization? These people are more likely to spend more than a "little bit of money here or there." Why disincentivize them from continuing to play by tunneling them towards a subscription that kept them from playing in the first place? Why not just offer them cosmetic/fun stuff to keep them around longer?

Meanwhile most people will only be playing the story content, and will see little reason to pay anything since most of the subscription offerings are aimed at a, as you put it, small demographic of people who wish to keep playing at 50.

Of course they'll see a big influx of players regardless, but I don't see this as a long term solution to the problem.

PVE focused players are rarely going to turn into hardcore endgame players, why waste ton of resources into trying to get them to buy into that? No EA/BW will need to focus on making new content that they can sell to those players. This is something that is on BW's table to make sure they take care of to keep those players interested. Those players are never going to care much about the stuff behind a weekly pass pay wall or endgame, they are going to want cosmetic stuff and stuff that expands their character and pve content. F2P is not about keeping players hanging around longer, much of the people who play often come in, sometimes toss some money at it, and don't stick around long term. But being free it's a constantly open door for new people to come back to without a subscription commitment.

The success of TOR's F2P is going to be highly dependant on them being able to produce content to sell to these players, as the game is lacking in what it can offer. We've gone over the sub base problem already, and that is not going away anytime soon. But everything can change, and once those subs hanging over their head start to leak away, they will no doubt change their tune, but at that time the game is going to have grown in it's offerings and they will have more freedom to play with their pricing schemes.

It's not about making a long term solution, as there never will be one, the solution is going to keep changing depending on the players demands and what they can offer and make from it.
 

Miletius

Member
They are similar in intention, but totally different in approach and implementation. TOR trial is nothing like their F2P model. This is getting ridiculous and into semantics territory.

PVE focused players are rarely going to turn into hardcore endgame players, why waste ton of resources into trying to get them to buy into that? No EA/BW will need to focus on making new content that they can sell to those players. This is something that is on BW's table to make sure they take care of to keep those players interested. Those players are never going to care much about the stuff behind a weekly pass pay wall or endgame, they are going to want cosmetic stuff and stuff that expands their character and pve content. F2P is not about keeping players hanging around longer, much of the people who play often come in, sometimes toss some money at it, and don't stick around long term. But being free it's a constantly open door for new people to come back to without a subscription commitment.

The success of TOR's F2P is going to be highly dependant on them being able to produce content to sell to these players, as the game is lacking in what it can offer. We've gone over the sub base problem already, and that is not going away anytime soon. But everything can change, and once those subs hanging over their head start to leak away, they will no doubt change their tune, but at that time the game is going to have grown in it's offerings and they will have more freedom to play with their pricing schemes.

It's not about making a long term solution, as there never will be one, the solution is going to keep changing depending on the players demands and what they can offer and make from it.

I agree that the continued success of the game will be dependent on the rate of new content coming out that they can monetize and sell. I think we just have a disagreement on the pass system and what it's trying to accomplish. I think that you'd overall generate more revenue by focusing on a unlock system, even counting players that jump from their sub, but I can see where you are coming from and I can see your reasoning.

I think the pass system comes from a general philosophy that they don't want F2P players to feel as though they own the content and likewise they don't want Sub players to feel as though F2P players are "owning" something they only have access to as long as they shell out 15 bucks. I think this is shortsighted, as they should be focusing on value on each proposition and instead they are pitting each segment of players against one another.

Also, I wouldn't call the amount of endgame content that SWTOR has as insignificant right now though, sure it could be better but it could be worse. I think they could monetize it in a way that makes sense for both F2P and P2P players.

I appreciate your posts and your POV on the matter, though, sincerely. It's helped me formulate a more nuanced opinion on what EA and Bioware are trying to accomplish.
 

ShaneB

Member
So for an actual game question... what are the best crew skills for a Gunslinger? I currently have Armstech, and Scavenging and Slicing. While it seems like those make sense, my WoW history never made me really care at all about anything crafted, I'd rather just make consumables or something.

But any insight would be much appreciated!
 

CzarTim

Member
PVE focused players are rarely going to turn into hardcore endgame players, why waste ton of resources into trying to get them to buy into that? No EA/BW will need to focus on making new content that they can sell to those players. This is something that is on BW's table to make sure they take care of to keep those players interested. Those players are never going to care much about the stuff behind a weekly pass pay wall or endgame, they are going to want cosmetic stuff and stuff that expands their character and pve content. F2P is not about keeping players hanging around longer, much of the people who play often come in, sometimes toss some money at it, and don't stick around long term. But being free it's a constantly open door for new people to come back to without a subscription commitment.

The success of TOR's F2P is going to be highly dependant on them being able to produce content to sell to these players, as the game is lacking in what it can offer. We've gone over the sub base problem already, and that is not going away anytime soon. But everything can change, and once those subs hanging over their head start to leak away, they will no doubt change their tune, but at that time the game is going to have grown in it's offerings and they will have more freedom to play with their pricing schemes.

It's not about making a long term solution, as there never will be one, the solution is going to keep changing depending on the players demands and what they can offer and make from it.

What EA should have done is give each F2Per the same basic suit of cosmetic armor, and no matter what gear they equip, have them always look the same. Then make it so any orange gear you acquire can be "unlocked" with Cartel Coins, allowing the player to wear it properly. Do this for mounts/pets too.

This would mean:

- No stat penalties for F2Pers means they have don't have to be avoided like the plague.
- There could still be rare drops, since non-subscribers will need to pay to unlock the appearance.
- A bunch of orange gear can be added to the Cartel Market like they are currently doing.
- Subscribers have normal access to all gear, giving people a big incentive to subscribe.
- Every time a player opens the character sheet, it shows what the character would look like, if only they would subscribe/pay coins.

What EA doesn't seem to understand is that limiting the amount people can play in a week without paying will cause most people to simply not play. If they can play a lot, they will want to make their character look cool.

What you have been saying is that it's more about getting people to throw out a few bucks every-once-in-a-while, and what I am saying is weekly passes / artifact gear restrictions / ui limitations will make it too frustrating for people to pop-in. There were ways to avoid this negative reaction people are having; they are just being greedy.

I agree that their #1 goal should be content creation. Charging for mini-expansions makes sense. But can we all agree that the pace of updates is a large reason they are in this mess now?

If they folded on the artifact gear and quick bars, I'd be a little more willing to accept the weekly passes on good faith. But things like making people resub to get their coins makes me sick as a genuine fan of the game. We can debate details of good and bad F2P models, but there's no denying that SWTOR's is misguided and more focused on nickel-and-diming people than creating a symbiotic relationship between players and the developers. If it wasn't, people would be excited to come back and play.
 

Cystm

Member
So for an actual game question... what are the best crew skills for a Gunslinger? I currently have Armstech, and Scavenging and Slicing. While it seems like those make sense, my WoW history never made me really care at all about anything crafted, I'd rather just make consumables or something.

But any insight would be much appreciated!

If you don't care about credits gained via crafting, then Biochem is the way to go. It's essentially Alchemy from WoW. Everything of use is BoP, but awesome for augmenting your playstyle.
 

ShaneB

Member
If you don't care about credits gained via crafting, then Biochem is the way to go. It's essentially Alchemy from WoW. Everything of use is BoP, but awesome for augmenting your playstyle.

Yeah.. I've just been reading a few posts on the TOR forums, definitely seems like Biochem is what I'm looking to start. Thanks!
 

Draxal

Member
I kinda wish they retool some of the single player class story missions and have them doable again at max level. I did enjoy the majority of them and it's a shame that you can't do the major ones again (unless you roll a another char of the same base class). It would really kill the content cap for casual players that this game needs.

The class story missions are more fun/engaging then the dailies/flashpoints you have to run over and over again. Just doesn't make sense that you can't redo the best content in the game pve wise.

I'd much rather do the Jedi Knight final mission over again then have to do all the dailies/stale flashpoints again. I'd def put cartel coins if I could play those missions again.
 

Alur

Member
Meant to send a pm, disregard this post.

I disregard you habitually anyway!

On the topic of F2P, Miletius and Tim, I think you've convinced me to some degree. I understand what you're saying. I just don't know how to solve it.

In the perfect world they would worry only about F2P monies with a cartel coin benefit to subscribers on the side and be loading up their store. All of these things should be all over the store and I don't know WTF we don't see them in mass:

  1. crazy crystal colors for me to gobble up (WHERE MY BLACK CRYSTAL)
  2. more customizable gear of different types, colors, styles (I want HBroward's collector's edition outfit recolored and put on the store)
  3. mounts
  4. pets
  5. purchasable items based on your valor ranking and/or operation level cleared (both coin and credit based purchases like special mounts for Warlord/Elite Warlord rank)
  6. Customizable Titles, or new titles.
  7. Legacy armor and freaking weapons (seriously!)
  8. armor dye
  9. neat visual toys like the holodancer and party bomb (WoW's little Christmas toy train and the robot that smashed it are top of the list for examples of what can be done here)

And that's just a start. They'd rape my wallet if they'd put some of this in, cause I'm stupid and impatient and would want stuff I didn't need. And that's how a good portion of other folks would behave as well.

It seems clear that despite our various takes on the validity or not of this F2P model, that we all think this could be better and to some degree are all expecting another setback PR wise. I sincerely hope we can get through this and keep growing, but I do worry that if the barrier for entry past the storyline is too high (as many of you feel) that they won't respond til a month after the exodus occurs...for the third time.
 
If they can pump out enough new stuff to put on the cartel market on a regular basis, they can be on the road to switching to a better f2p system. Lot of the walls are up in endgame and that I think is ok since that is the realm usually of the more hardcore and those who want to sub, but eventually the whole notion of subbing is going to have to be tossed out in favor of pure f2p system.

I think they are doing better job now at getting content out with the new 6 week approach, keep that up, but what the game to me needs really is something new and unique. They need new features that get the players to log in besides events, but other things to occupy our time. Many mmos have come up with other game systems to toss in to spice things up, like LOTR with their skirmishes, and WoW with their mini games. Even SWG put in a whole CCG into the game which apparently was fairly successful. Obviously I want Pazaak but other alternative xp streams would be great. They kinda hinted at a bounty system? Assume it would be some form of random npc hunt type game added in? Who knows but stuff like that would be great and could lead to more revenue streams to exploit on the cartel market.
 

Cystm

Member
Bioware said:
Hello everyone, we wanted to let you know that we will be performing scheduled maintenance for twelve hours on Thursday, November 15th, 2012 from 12AM CST (10PM PST/1AM EST/6AM GMT/7AM CET/5PM AEDT) until 12PM CST (10AM PST/1PM EST/6PM GMT/7PM CST/5AM AEDT). All game servers, SWTOR.com, and the launcher will be offline during this period. This maintenance is expected to take no more than twelve hours, but could be extended.

Explore Section X, a brand new area on the prison world of Belsavis, where you will not only embark on a galaxy-wide mission to recruit the legendary HK-51 Assassin Droid as your companion, but also confront agents of the Dread Masters in their attempt to activate a powerful ancient Rakata weapon.

In Game Update 1.5, there will be two different ways to play Star Wars™: The Old Republic™:

Subscription – A service designed for players who want unrestricted access to all the game features via ongoing subscription or by redeeming a Game Time Card. Subscribers will receive ongoing monthly grants of Cartel Coins. Cartel Coins can be used to purchase valuable items including customizable gear and convenience features that will enhance the gameplay experience.
Free-to-Play – The first 50 levels will be Free-to-Play, with some restrictions on access to new content and advanced player features. Some restrictions can be “unlocked” with Cartel Coins.

After this maintenance is over, restart the game launcher to patch to Game Update 1.5.

Scheduled Maintenance

Date: Thursday, November 15th, 2012

Time: 12AM CST (10PM PST/1AM EST/6AM GMT/7AM CET/5PM AEDT) until 12PM CST (10AM PST/1PM EST/6PM GMT/7PM CST/5AM AEDT)

They really want to take their time with this patch. Good.
 
So, I'm playing my Consular at the moment and Act 3 is brilliant... why couldn't they capture this kind of stuff for the first two acts? Currently going through Voss, and everything up to this point has been really interesting, with some tough choices and great characters. Really impressed with how Nadia's story is playing out.

It does, however, also make me realise how much I want more Agent story content.
 
Looking forward to checking back into the game with the free to play launch. Couldn't log in due to security key problems but a quick phone call fixed that so I am ready.
 

Anoregon

The flight plan I just filed with the agency list me, my men, Dr. Pavel here. But only one of you!
Is there still no reason to believe that subbing tomorrow for a 500 point monthly sub coin bonus is not a better option than subbing today for the 200+250 bonus? I mean, assuming you aren't going to play tonight.
 

Milly79

Member
I should just stay away from this thread until next week. I'm guessing I'll be back on between Monday and Wednesday next week.
 

Miletius

Member
Is there still no reason to believe that subbing tomorrow for a 500 point monthly sub coin bonus is not a better option than subbing today for the 200+250 bonus? I mean, assuming you aren't going to play tonight.

I'd like to know this as well. I am trying to hold off on subbing since my friends will be F2P and I don't want them to feel like second class citizens but I'd like to know if there is an overall better reason to sub now, just in case I choose to pick it up fully again.
 

HBroward

Member
I should just stay away from this thread until next week. I'm guessing I'll be back on between Monday and Wednesday next week.

Have you ordered that stuff yet? Kaz will be here for Friday so at least he can fill in this weekend. A bit lower dps than your double reflex 27 barrels but shouldn't be an issue with any of the fights in there.
 

ShaneB

Member
It's a great book, but note it's full of spoilers. Essentially the 8 class stories are pretty much spelled out in the book even. It has lot of cool little background details to the setting that isn't in game.

Guess I'll be careful to avoid those class story sections. Think I'll place an order for it shortly :)
 

Milly79

Member

Have you ordered that stuff yet? Kaz will be here for Friday so at least he can fill in this weekend. A bit lower dps than your double reflex 27 barrels but shouldn't be an issue with any of the fights in there.

Friday is when I'll order, thus the Mon-Wed timeframe.
 

HBroward

Member
Dev update on NiM Explosive Conflict.

There is a new title for clearing it in 2 hours or less. Can't wait. And welcome back among us Dega!

People are already raising good points about needing to change the lockouts being shared by HM and NiM. Now that they have different loot tables, I completely agree. Guilds will have to choose between taking their characters into one or the other, and it will become harder to catch people and their alts up when that happens.
 
Is there still no reason to believe that subbing tomorrow for a 500 point monthly sub coin bonus is not a better option than subbing today for the 200+250 bonus? I mean, assuming you aren't going to play tonight.
Yeah it's probably better to wait for F2P to launch unless you really want the Party Jawa.
 

Milly79

Member
Do I need to resub for party jawa before tomorrow?

And does it need to be active or what? I have until the 18th before it runs out. Last time I checked I think it counted as active although I was unsubbed.
 
Do I need to resub for party jawa before tomorrow?

And does it need to be active or what? I have until the 18th before it runs out. Last time I checked I think it counted as active although I was unsubbed.
If you have until the 18th of November then you'll get the Party Jawa. As long as you're an active subscriber on that day.
 

StudioTan

Hold on, friend! I'd love to share with you some swell news about the Windows 8 Metro UI! Wait, where are you going?
Do I need to resub for party jawa before tomorrow?

And does it need to be active or what? I have until the 18th before it runs out. Last time I checked I think it counted as active although I was unsubbed.

You're considered active as long as you can log in, even if you've cancelled your sub.
 
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