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Star Wars: The Old Republic |OT2| In a F2Play galaxy far, far away
- Thread starter Cystm
- Start date
StudioTan
Hold on, friend! I'd love to share with you some swell news about the Windows 8 Metro UI! Wait, where are you going?
While it's sucky for legitimate players those restrictions are there because of
BattleMonkey
Member
I was wondering this too, unless those who are subbed when it goes F2P are also going to get 500 as well. Otherwise it's best folks wait till after the 15th to claim their coins
Quick Mustard
Member
Just re-subbed, any Gaf EU Guild going on at all?
Not to my knowledge. There was one at launch but I think it too disappeared.
Well, you do get until Dec. 20th to resub at least, while still receiving your CC's.
The actual F2P restrictions for current players won't be enforced until the next major patch, which is up to 6 weeks away at the earliest. You should be able to take advantage of that as well, but since you haven't officially been a subscriber yet I'm not 100% you will fall under that exception.
Anoregon is our new Tess3ract.
On topic, this is true but most of those issues have been addressed as well. Almost everyone I knew quit due to two things: (1) boredom/lack of things to do or (2) their class got nerfed and they couldn't handle it.
Class balance has changed 2 or 3 times since then, and there have been two raids, more dailies, another wz, rated pvp, group finder etc etc added since 1.1 when the mass exodus occurred. Not to mention the mergers, which helps with everything.
I know you're dead set on BW being scum of the earth (and rightly so) for putting UI and other things behind the pay wall, but let's be real about the rest of it here. Almost every complaint has been addressed.
The main complaints remaining are about features introduced since the bottom fell out of the player base, such as no 4 man or solo rated pvp, nightmare modes for raids (finally getting around to that), and testing that isn't very thorough (because they removed the perks from testing, for one) resulting in crippling bugs in gameplay.
Is that for everything? I thought it was just the character slots limit that wasn't implemented yet.
BattleMonkey
Member
Augments/augment kits make ok money, so related stuff like slicing components used to make the augments also brings in ok flow.
The best way to make money is selling resources. Find which ones are selling for the most (regardless of level, this has to do with supply/demand) and sell those exclusively. This is the boring way to make money but it has the largest profit margin. If you sell resources while leveling you will have more than enough for speeders, licenses, and skills.
On my Guardian main I'm Biochem and with Bioanal I regularly sell stacks of mutagenic paste for 110k+. It's been a great money err credit maker
RPGCrazied
Member
Runs okay enough. I'm trying to max the game at 1920x1080p. It chugs sometimes. Specially on the 2nd planet with it raining. I wish the options had a little more to them, like view distance, clutter distance, and other stuff. Seems pretty barren. Oh I'm level 11 now.
It's going, but not as strong as it once was, sadly. It serves as an alt guild for [GAF] for the time being.
RoninChaos
Member
So when do I need to resub to get cartel coins?
HarryDemeanor
Member
By December 20th.
You can play free now, till level 15. I recommend that if you intend on playing again, you start downloading the client right away.
Definitely start downloading now if you are interested in coming back as Cystm suggested. The next few days the servers are going to get absolutely hammered with people returning.
Yep. I've seen some old faces and had some great pvp matches. Tonight I ran with Virtus et Honor and we went 7-3 I think. Did some earlier today with Ilye and Cheek and it was just destruction. It's nice to group in PVP again, soloed for over a week lol.
Who?
Anoregon
The flight plan I just filed with the agency list me, my men, Dr. Pavel here. But only one of you!
Anoregon is our new Tess3ract.
...I know you're dead set on BW being scum of the earth (and rightly so) for putting UI and other things behind the pay wall, but let's be real about the rest of it here. Almost every complaint has been addressed.
Don't get me wrong, I've never been one of those TORTANIC LOL BIODRONES idiots. I don't feel some sort of gleeful schadenfreude when a game doesn't do as well as expected, and for TOR in particular I was incredibly psyched for the game and did in fact enjoy it a whole lot for the first month or two. It's just incredibly disheartening to see it have failings that clearly could and should have been mitigated or entirely avoided, and now with the F2P transition, seeing such obviously wrong choices that seem to directly fight against the concept of increasing players and revenue via a healthy micro-transaction playerbase.
Many other MMO-style games that either launched with or added a F2P model treat the premium/preferred (anyone who pays for stuff, but doesn't sub) players as just an alternative payment model for content, but not on this whole other, lower tier than subscribers. It's basically a difference of paying to own specific features/content versus paying to rent all of it. I absolutely think that's the right way to handle a hybrid F2P/sub game, because it preserves the value of a sub by providing all of the content the game has to offer, but also offers significant freedom and value to players who choose instead to pay to own specific blocks of content or featurse. The TOR F2P model explicitly treats that model of pay-to-play as inferior because of how hard they are pushing people towards subscribing, and by not offering meaningful pay-to-own permanent content unlocks, as well as having incredibly boneheaded restrictions for UI and basic functionality, I honestly think it's going to bite them in the ass.
BattleMonkey
Member
I don't really think it's going to bite them in the ass, it's going to bring in money and really they can at any time modify their pricing structures. They could see a loss of subs go further with more players just sticking to the free game, which will push them to have to give more for the f2p players money and options. As said before in the other threads, the big issue obviously is that the game is going f2p when it supposedly has more than 500k subs still and they don't want players to all drop those subs to go the free route overnight. All other F2P game launches have been for games that were on their death beds with dead servers and less than 50k or less players estimated. The cost of TOR forced them to rethink their approach, but they still have more subbed players than countless other MMOs have and they just can't give away majority of the game for free like those other f2p games have.
They might gain some more subs out of this venture but over time they will probably see a decline in those subs continue and eventually have to adopt a more liberal form of F2P system.
Anoregon
The flight plan I just filed with the agency list me, my men, Dr. Pavel here. But only one of you!
The number of sub's isn't really that important anymore, though. On an industry level, it's clear that the subscription model is not that viable anymore and WoW is an outlier at this point. Also, It is no longer the only (or potentially primary) source of revenue for the game. The purchase of Cartel coins can (and maybe will, I really don't know) eclipse subscriptions when it comes to the amount of money the game is making. A subscription is simply one of multiple options to pay for access to content. The problem is, the other method (cartel coins) are seemingly intended to not be a viable alternative to the subscription for people who want to pay to own rather than rent, but only function as an inferior model for renting that content, and not only that, but certain features and quality-of-life issues are hard-locked behind a sub and not even available via cartel coins.
RoninChaos
Member
What are the UI pay-wall roadblocks now? Is there somewhere I can read up on all the changes?
BattleMonkey
Member
You can't say that over half a mil subs is not important anymore.
The F2P model they have adopted is not ideal, but it's clear why they are doing it the way they are. You don't suddenly give the game away for free when you have that many players still waiting to sub to your game. When that changed, then they will have to change. Could they make more money going f2p route? It's hard to say because all the comparisons being made are against games which at the time were around 40-50k in subs a month and losing money. TOR to be profitable is supposed to be above 500k, they got people paying and they are going to have more players come in and toss money at f2p option despite it not being that good of a system. This was all reaction to try and appease the shareholders who saw the game lose so many subs after having reached nearly 2mil at one point.
Games that have gone f2p trumpet their success and now making money... well yea because they were unprofitable at the time and losing money. TOR from what we know is still making money.
Like I said before, I see the game changing it's f2p model over time esepecially as they are likely going to see a decline on subs eventually. They also have the issue that the game clearly doesn't have enough content to give for free system or cash shop. Folks are already complaining about the lack of content in the cash shop, and much of it is just stripping functions from the core game. They are going to have to build up a cash shop worth anything also as right now, they don't have much to actually sell.
I think it's just 2 quickbar slots for F2P and Preferred players, otherwise the normal 6. You can pay to unlock additional hotbars.
I just confirmed that people I know are coming back, so I'm probably in -- is it better to sub now for a month to get bonuses or sub before the December deadline?
Anoregon
The flight plan I just filed with the agency list me, my men, Dr. Pavel here. But only one of you!
I'm not talking about giving stuff away for free. I'm talking about what non-subscribers are able to purchase. With money. Their current model has absolutely no scenario in which it's worthwhile or effective to pay for content with the micro-transactions, because a subscription is just flat-out superior if you want to have a reasonable degree of freedom and access to content. There's a fine line between "encouraging" someone to subscribe and making them feel like they are being FORCED to subscribe because the other options, including paying for weekly unlocks, just don't feel like worthwhile options.
BattleMonkey
Member
Alot of players though are not going to feel forced at all by the system. Bunch of my friends are jumping in and all these restrictions? They could care less about. This game especially focuses on the story aspect which is a huge draw for many and a player can play and enjoy the entire class story experience for free with minimal pay walls. Majority of these restrictions are being emposed are affecting end game players and pvp'ers. But the folks who invest in endgame and pvp has always been a smaller portion of MMO player bases. Guildmates are coming back just because they want to play the story stuff as well, they never touch pvp or raided, so they are more than happy with what they are getting. And even giving microtransaction unlocks for stuff like unlimited WZ's/ops would be nice, it could potentially hurt them since it would make having a sub pointless as it would be cheaper to go f2p route, as it has been with majority of f2p games. They have little to offer right now in f2p microtransactions, so they also adopted the silly booster random pack system since folks would not waste tons of money gambling otherwise. They obviously needed more time to work on F2P to make it worthwhile, while also having the issue with them already dealing with a fairly big sub base they don't want to lose. If they could make money off those subbers when they switch to f2p I'm sure they would, but as the game is now, they have little to offer and make money on.
Not everyone is going to be happy, like you for example. But the system is going to satisfy many folks at the same time since MMO players have varied interests of their time investment.
The number of subs is important because it's guaranteed money...for the time being. BW/EA, through having questionable intellect or just being hamfisted, have decided that they will keep rolling in more $15's than $2, $3, and $5 a month - at least here in the beginning. Like BattleMonkey said, I fully expect them to change the money as more people drop the sub...but who is dropping their sub at this point? No one I talk to in game is, all those folks already left a while ago.
I decided to do some napkin math and see for myself how I felt about it with real numbers.
So upfront cost to be like Burger King and HAVE IT YOUR WAY (TM):
WZs: 960 coins.
UI: 500 coins to unlock back to 4 bars.
Artifact Gear (if you're returning, you don't need it): 1200 coins.
Grand total: 2660 or 6 packs of coins @ $4.99 = 29.94 = two months worth of sub. (with 40 leftover coins)
Month two:
WZs: 960 coins.
Grand total: 960 or 3 packs of coins @ $4.99 = 14.97 = a month worth of subbing (now carrying 430 leftover coins).
Month three:
WZs: 960 coins
Grand total: 960 or 2 packs of coins @ $4.99 = 9.98 = 2/3's a subscription (with 370 coins left over).
Month four:
WZs: 960 coins
Grand total: 960 or 2 packs of coins @ $4.99 = 9.98 = 2/3's a subscription (with 310 coins left over).
There's two assumptions to my math. That is that a F2P player is actually going to play it religiously for an entire month, which I find doubtful. If they are, they really should sub as that should always be the model that makes more sense for full time playing. And to me that puts us back at square one. The other is that folks doing this won't already have some cartel coins saved up. I just don't see brand new F2P being too concerned with WZs or ops for a bit, and by then I think they'll adjust these prices.
I see both sides. I think it's a bit steep, especially having to unlock gear and UI...those are ridiculous...but the actual cost of unlocking just WZs or operatives is almost in line with what I expected.
I really just like what I've played so far. Story stuff is fine and leveling has been fun, and it definitely gives me that sense of discovery I like in games and exploring the world. PvP has been fun so I'm excited to get to 50 and group up with guildies, and run flashpoints and ops and all that good stuff, really diggin the Gunslinger class.
Granted I'm only level 20, but I certainly hope there is some success to give this game a long future.
Granted I'm only level 20, but I certainly hope there is some success to give this game a long future.
Anoregon
The flight plan I just filed with the agency list me, my men, Dr. Pavel here. But only one of you!
My primary issue with the weekly unlocks, other than my overall affinity for a permanent unlock system, is that it's totally contradictory to the actual stated agenda of "we are offering alternative pay/play methods because we know so many people don't like to pay subscriptions." A weekly fee IS a subscription. It's like there's a total cognitive dissonance that is somehow rectifying "we need non-sub options because there is a huge potential customer block who might play the game if they don't have to pay a strict monthly" with "people will want to pay a microcosm of a sub." Having any kind of time-based temporary unlock puts the exact same pressures and needs on a player as a normal monthly sub. Why would players who don't like the subscription model in general find the mini-sub model attractive?
This is a good argument and I don't really have an answer. My question for you is this: if you gave a permanent unlock to warzones or operations, how much would it have to cost? I just don't see a feasible dollar number that anyone would agree on.
Now if it was a month, or three months, or six months, maybe...but Bioware has to keep bringing in money, and if you unlock warzones for say $15 or $20 (anything less would be a complete joke) by the second or third month they are losing revenue because you never need to buy anything ever again. It's just not realistic IMO.
Anoregon
The flight plan I just filed with the agency list me, my men, Dr. Pavel here. But only one of you!
One way I can see them approaching permanent unlocks is just being able to purchase a permanent increase on the limit. Maybe for X amount of cartel coins, you can do 3 more FP's/warzones a week, and you can buy that unlock as many times as you want until you can do as many runs a week as you want. It doesn't fully remove the limit like a sub does, but it's still a permanent, account-wide increase in quality of life and access to content.
Since Operations are much fewer and have weekly lockouts, I don't really know how I'd approach that, to be honest.
Since Operations are much fewer and have weekly lockouts, I don't really know how I'd approach that, to be honest.
Because they are adults that are capable of playing at a pace they have more control over with this model. If it's worth that much consideration to you hen sub or pay nothing and be happy. If you want to spend more time playing the game then unlock whatever suites your fancy.
These "pressures" seem border line phobic to me.
That's interesting, I hadn't considered that. Haven't seen anyone else throw it out either to my knowledge.
I feel like 450 coins for 4.99 is gonna go down sooner rather than later. If you could unlock wz's, fp's, or ops for a month for two packs of coins it'd be fine, IMO. Having to buy 3 just because you need an extra 60 coins sucks though.
BattleMonkey
Member
People can pay for only when they actually play for lot less than locking themselves to a monthly recurring sub, and they only pay for what they want to play.
And again you have many customers who are not going to care about the stuff behind the weekly pass walls. For some players it's going to be essentially free for what they want. While some will be able to pay for just what they want. My GF cancelled her sub but is going to play and possibly buy cosmetic gear if at all, but staying free. If she wants to run in a raid with us, she can pay a small fee to do so instead of paying $15 a month for features that she might not even use. But being free she still gets to play the story content that she enjoys. She doesn't pvp or run many flashpoints ever anymore either so shes not paying for those.
The model is not going to be ideal for everyone but for some it will work in their favor.
I think your post highlights why this is a bad basis for a F2P model: the stuff that is actually free without restrictions is the stuff that doesn't require any reason to pay. The story is the "meat" of this game, and you could conceivably not pay a dime while going through both the Rep and Imp side. So why are they going F2P at all? Why not go the GW2 route and charge for a box that gets you access to all the story stuff that, supposedly, is all most people care for.
It seems very odd to have such little incentive for those casuals to buy anything and putting the burden on the people who want to engage in the end game. If I were going in fresh, I'd hit 50, look at the restrictions, and then immediately quit. Having only paid for maybe an additional quickbar or two (none of the cosmetic stuff grabbed me, but that might change.)
And btw Ops are subscriber-only.
BattleMonkey
Member
They can't take the GW2 route, they needed to go that route when the game launched, at this point they are not going to get people to pay $60 to purchase the game, and also it would be an awful idea to do when they still have over half million people paying a sub.... so suddenly all those people get to play for free? Never going to happen. GW2's one time purchase works because it was launched that way, but you can't shoehorn it into a game at this point. Millions in monthly subs would fly out the window suddenly. It's too late at this point, they would have to essentially give it all away for dirt cheap to get any attention as they can't sell the game full price this long after launch, especially with stores clearancing the game.
And I don't see it at all as a bad basis for f2p. It's no ideally what many would want, but for a business standpoint it is fine. They are going to get tons of people to try the game who would have never purchased or subbed in the first place. A portion of those players though will spend money though, and the whole point is to get players into the door. If a player comes in and just pays $5 and that is all, then it's a win for EA/BW as that's the whole point. You bring in as many as you can and hopefully they spend something, instead of them never even trying your game or spending anything. And many who will spend money simply avoid any MMO that puts the pressure on them by requiring a sub. They come in and enjoy a game, and they have incentive to purchase something as they spent $0 on the game.... $2.50 for that cool looking robe? Why not.
In all F2P games you have a good percentage of players who never spend a dime, but of those players theres always those few who do spend something and it adds up.
I don't think it's a good f2p system for the players, but on a business standpoint as the game stands, it makes sense sadly. If the game didn't have so many people still subbing, this would have been completely different type of f2p game.