Star Wars: The Old Republic [Releasing Date: Dec 20 NA/EU - NDA Lifted]

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Billychu said:
Right now GAF has 5,000 people viewing it. Every time I bump this thread thousands of people see the name of this game. I should get beta access
or money
for all of the free advertising I'm giving Bioware.
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Bump other threads so they can get more attention.

EXCLUSIVE BETA INFORMATION
There is a beta in progress!
 
My chart looks very different, no interest in GW2 or Torchlight.

It simply says "In the mood for SW:TOR and servers up? Play SW:TOR, Something else or servers are down? Play X-Rebirth".

Too many years of WoW have left me utterly bored with generic fantasy scenarios, and playing X3:TC a bit recently has put me on a real Sci-Fi kick.
 
Osiris said:
My chart looks very different, no interest in GW2 or Torchlight.

It simply says "In the mood for SW:TOR and servers up? Play SW:TOR, Something else or servers are down? Play X-Rebirth".

Too many years of WoW have left me utterly bored with generic fantasy scenarios, and playing X3:TC a bit recently has put me on a real Sci-Fi kick.
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Then your chart is wrong. What's X3:TC?
 
Einbroch said:
Then your chart is wrong. What's X3:TC?
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It's right for me :P, As much as I loved Torchlight I'm passing on #2, and I don't think theres anything that could interest me in GW2.

And X3:TC is X3:TC :P
 
Einbroch said:
It's now abundantly clear why you're so into ToR. <3
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I push a button and laserz shoot out!

Some day I'll sit myself down and force myself to learn how to play it, but it seems like it'll be a real time commitment to get the hang of it.
 
Osiris said:
It's right for me :P, As much as I loved Torchlight I'm passing on #2, and I don't think theres anything that could interest me in GW2.

And X3:TC is X3:TC :P
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The junior thinks he's being cute but really isnt. He means X3: Terran Conflict, a space simulation game.
 
AzureNightmare said:
The junior thinks he's being cute but really isnt. He means X3: Terran Conflict, a space simulation game.
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He linked it, so it's all good.

I mean really, I was just being lazy and didn't want to move my mouse up two inches to get to my URL bar and type in "X3:TC".
 
AzureNightmare said:
Meh, he was still being snarky.
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Slightly, yeah, but a valid reaction to being told your tastes and choices of games are 'wrong' ;)

All in good humour, you can get off my nuts now, I ain't that cute. :P
 
Dinosaur Tamer said:
With more than two modes (confirmed at gamescom), who cares about the easiest one being done by pick up groups? And if the hardest mode is actually hard, it's just like TBC with an added easy mode
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Uh, so you mean just like Wrath or Cata (which are TBC + an easy mode) :p

Or do you just not want to use the words "Wrath" or "Cata" :p
 
TimHortons said:
Watched the Cynical Brit stuff from Gamescom and liked what I saw... Was not really interested in Smuggler until I watched his stuff http://www.youtube.com/user/TotalHalibut#p/c/2272A4EE84269E1F/7/pxMbI30KKJ0

He originally did a Sith Warrior... http://www.youtube.com/user/TotalHalibut#p/c/2272A4EE84269E1F/18/ebUMuuS1AZs

I still think I'll be a Jedi Consular to start but definitely will have a Smuggler as well...
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Same here. When I first saw the class, the cover mechanic just seemed absurd, the idea of rushing behind cover and hiding while your robe-wearing group mate is freely out in the open. But watching the video, I liked how the cover stuff added an extra wrinkle, an extra layer to combat. It's like, okay I can just shoot this enemy, but if I really want to be fully effective I can go behind cover. Sort of like stealthing as a rogue, you can go without it, but you get an extra "oomph" for using it.
 
Spehornoob said:
When it comes to GW2, I think this guy hit the nail on the head right here. I love all the stuff that GW2 is doing. It's honestly the kind of game I personally pictured when I heard the concept of an MMO. But it's changing a ton, and MMO vets aren't gonna like it all.

And is nothing at all wrong with a traditional MMO experience. Just because TOR takes a fairly safe route in it's mechanics doesn't make it any better or worse than GW2. That's why the small fandom rivalry between the two games doesn't make any sense to me. They're trying to accomplish completely different things.

Looking forward like Hell to the both of them.
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I disagree. I think most MMO vets are ready for something new. They're tired of the same old game design. Casuals and diehard Star Wars fans will carry TOR, but I think those who've played a lot of MMOs and continue to jump from one to the next because they're bored with latch onto GW2 when it is released.
 
Rookje said:
I think it's mostly the Internet that knows or cares about GW2. Both at E3 and comic-con the lines for swtor were hours long, but GW2 you could just walk up to a booth.
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GW2 wasn't at E3, the lines at CC/GC have been 3-4 hours long.

As for TOR, I felt that the 2 classes with cover mechanics will end up with the most diverse and interesting combat.
 
FieryBalrog said:
Or do you just not want to use the words "Wrath" or "Cata" :p
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No, during my last few posts here I actually used Cata multiple times and Wrath at least once.

FieryBalrog said:
Uh, so you mean just like Wrath or Cata (which are TBC + an easy mode) :p
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In TBC a lot of the instances were hard enough in heroic mode to present some challenge to the hardcore crowd until a certain level of equipment. In Wrath and especially Cata heroic instances could be done by 2-3 competent max level players in level gear. That is ridiculous. A full group of competent players was easily able rush through heroic like it was normal mode in TBC.

And while there were some challenging encounters, raids turned out to be a lot easier in Wrath and Cata heroic mode than back in TBC.

So my point is Wrath and Cata never had an easy mode and a fairly hard mode like TBC did, they had a very easy mode and a still pretty easy mode. And adding an easy mode to TBC would not end up anywhere near Wrath and Cata, because there still would be a challenging mode available (and that would actually mean three modes instead of WoW's two). That is what I was trying to tell you.

Also, adding an easy mode to TBC would get you easy, normal and hard - that sounds like what SWTOR is doing. :p
 
Belfast said:
I disagree. I think most MMO vets are ready for something new. They're tired of the same old game design. Casuals and diehard Star Wars fans will carry TOR, but I think those who've played a lot of MMOs and continue to jump from one to the next because they're bored with latch onto GW2 when it is released.
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Agreed 100%. If GW2 lives up to even half the hype it's been given, it's going to be pretty big among the hardcore MMO crowd. To me it sounds like everything an MMO was originally hyped to be before they were turned into glorified theme parks.
 
Interfectum said:
Agreed 100%. If GW2 lives up to even half the hype it's been given, it's going to be pretty big among the hardcore MMO crowd. To me it sounds like everything an MMO was originally hyped to be before they were turned into glorified theme parks.
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It hardly is, because it simply does not play like a MMORPG anymore. The emphasis on action and dynamics is so high it looses a lot of weight and depth and feels like another genre.

This is highly subjective, of course, but the MMO communities I've been involved with during the last 11 years actually like MMORPGs. So why should they shun them in favor of a new, lighter type of game? I just don't see this happening.

GW2 will be a success just like GW was. But, from the reactions of all the MMO vets I know (or lack of to be more specific), I am very sure it won't be the next big thing in the MMORPG genre.
 
Interfectum said:
Agreed 100%. If GW2 lives up to even half the hype it's been given, it's going to be pretty big among the hardcore MMO crowd. To me it sounds like everything an MMO was originally hyped to be before they were turned into glorified theme parks.
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Even if the game doesn't live up to most of it's hype, the game will succeed because it doesn't require a subscription. When a game requires a sub, players obviously hold it to a higher standard of what they expect from the game since they don't really have to "quit" with something like GW2.
 
Seeing the state Guild Wars 2 is in right now i'm surprised they aren't charging a monthly sub.

This thing is polished to the bone. Most of the MMO's that do charge monthly fees at the moment arent looking as good months or years after release. Then again, I guess Arenanet's philosphy is just different.
They release expansions more often than others and seem to have some microtransactions.

I'm just curious how their business model will work out.
 
Fonds said:
Seeing the state Guild Wars 2 is in right now i'm surprised they aren't charging a monthly sub.

This thing is polished to the bone. Most of the MMO's that do charge monthly fees at the moment arent looking as good months or years after release. Then again, I guess Arenanet's philosphy is just different.
They release expansions more often than others and seem to have some microtransactions.

I'm just curious how their business model will work out.
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Bingo.
 
Fonds said:
Seeing the state Guild Wars 2 is in right now i'm surprised they aren't charging a monthly sub.

This thing is polished to the bone. Most of the MMO's that do charge monthly fees at the moment arent looking as good months or years after release. Then again, I guess Arenanet's philosphy is just different.
They release expansions more often than others and seem to have some microtransactions.

I'm just curious how their business model will work out.
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The monthly fee has absolutely nothing to do with polish.

When GW2 is released and people realize it's just GW1 again, you'll see why there's no monthly fee.

The GW2 hype is absolutely retarded and Arenanet should be sued for false advertising once the game is released. I played the thing at SDCC and it's just as instanced as the first game was.
 
"I played the thing at SDCC and it's just as instanced as the first game was."

Did you play the starting area? Or were you in a storyline area? Because both of those areas are instanced but the rest of the game is a big open world.
 
There is only one operation (raid) at launch - Eternity Vault, which will feature 8 and 16 player modes and at least three difficulty modes. 8/16 determines the amount of loot per encounter, difficulty modes the quality.
 
Dinosaur Tamer said:
There is only one operation (raid) at launch - Eternity Vault, which will feature 8 and 16 player modes and at least three difficulty modes. 8/16 determines the amount of loot per encounter, difficulty modes the quality.
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Only 1 at launch?!.... that sounds pretty crappy really. I can see it taking a while to get enough people leveled for raid running but still that sounds kind of odd. They better roll out the other raids quick after launch.

I hope that content patches also don't just focus on raids, as I want to see features and content for every aspect of the game..... as much as endgame is important for many, I hate when MMO's seem to just focus on pumping out endgame extensions.
 
Dinosaur Tamer said:
It hardly is, because it simply does not play like a MMORPG anymore. The emphasis on action and dynamics is so high it looses a lot of weight and depth and feels like another genre.

This is highly subjective, of course, but the MMO communities I've been involved with during the last 11 years actually like MMORPGs. So why should they shun them in favor of a new, lighter type of game? I just don't see this happening.

GW2 will be a success just like GW was. But, from the reactions of all the MMO vets I know (or lack of to be more specific), I am very sure it won't be the next big thing in the MMORPG genre.
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I agree with this statement. The feedback related to TERA Online also seems to be supporting this arguement. You would think these systems would be popular (at least I would think so) but there is the possibility of losing the RPG part.
 
BattleMonkey said:
Only 1 at launch?!.... that sounds pretty crappy really. I can see it taking a while to get enough people leveled for raid running but still that sounds kind of odd. They better roll out the other raids quick after launch.

I hope that content patches also don't just focus on raids, as I want to see features and content for every aspect of the game..... as much as endgame is important for many, I hate when MMO's seem to just focus on pumping out endgame extensions.
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Only 1 confirmed. Honestly their endgame information and feedback in the public forums (and also somewhere else...) has been almost nil.

The vagueness is the only thing that bugs me about their PR, especially if they are looking to open up the game up to the public at large (in a way) with the Sept Beta weekends.
 
maabus1999 said:
I agree with this statement. The feedback related to TERA Online also seems to be supporting this arguement. You would think these systems would be popular (at least I would think so) but there is the possibility of losing the RPG part.
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Many games have tried new things in the MMO space, and often it backfires or the hardcore MMO fanatics just end up whining and wanting stuff to be like their favorite "traditional" MMO. Devs often then cave in or try to cater to these whiners.... originality be damned!

maabus1999 said:
Only 1 confirmed. Honestly their endgame information and feedback in the public forums (and also somewhere else...) has been almost nil.

The vagueness is the only thing that bugs me about their PR, especially if they are looking to open up the game up to the public at large (in a way) with the Sept Beta weekends.
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Crunch time now for the game so I assume lot of it is them not knowing what they can and can't get done in time for launch right now.
 
If the game really launches with only 1 raid, it'll be the biggest subscription drop off in the history of the MMO genre. Even faster than WAR. People will hit 50 within the first week (trust me, they will; people race to the cap) and with only one raid to do they'll run back to WoW before the game charges them $15.
 
This isn't really relevant, but how many raids did WoW launch with? I'm not asking this to defend SWTOR only having one raid, I'm just curious.
 
Billychu said:
This isn't really relevant, but how many raids did WoW launch with? I'm not asking this to defend SWTOR only having one raid, I'm just curious.
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WoW launched with Molten Core and Onyxia as 40man raids, and UBRS as a 15/10man raid, and Scholo and Strat as 10/5-man raids/dungeons.
 
BattleMonkey said:
Only 1 at launch?!.... that sounds pretty crappy really. I can see it taking a while to get enough people leveled for raid running but still that sounds kind of odd. They better roll out the other raids quick after launch.

I hope that content patches also don't just focus on raids, as I want to see features and content for every aspect of the game..... as much as endgame is important for many, I hate when MMO's seem to just focus on pumping out endgame extensions.
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One at launch is actually pretty solid. Just a quick list of PvE endgame content at launch off the top of my head (for comparison):

DAoC: pretty much nothing
GW: none (at least I think so)
WoW (vanilla): first tier of raids (so just like TOR)
TBC: first tier of raids (so just like TOR)
Wrath: first tier of raids (so just like TOR)
Cata: first tier of raids (so just like TOR)
WAR: none except for one capital raid per faction (if you want to count that)
Rift: first tier of raids (so just like TOR)
SWTOR: first tier of raids
GW2: ?

Could be slightly wrong about some of them but one raid/one tier of smaller raids is pretty much the current standard for new releases and the biggest hit of the genre actually released without a proper raid.

*Edit* Nevermind. Molten Core was there fore launch day. Just wasn't in beta.
 
Actually, depending on how long it is, I think people will hit 50 in the head start. It happened with Rift.

Then they get to the cap, see that there's only 1 raid and the game is dead for MMO players before it even launches. BioWare fanboys will cry about story and create huge spreadsheets to figure out what their companion's sweat tastes like, while the MMO market moves on.

There had better not be only 1 raid.

Dinosaur Tamer said:
O
WoW (vanilla): Onyxia and that's it ... no raids
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WoW LAUNCHED with:
15-Man Strat/Scholo Upper and Lower Blackrock Spire
40-Man Onyxia and Molten Core

40-Man Blackwing Lair was in 1.6


Dinosaur Tamer said:
I am pretty sure Molten Core was added after launch day.
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No it was in there at launch. Blackwing Lair was the first post-launch raid in 1.6, and 1.7 had Zul'Gurub.
 
WoW launched with a few "intro raids" which were just hard dungeons, and then there was Molten Core which no one cleared for like 2 months or something.

Yeah onyxia is a raid but if everyone performs well it wouldn't take more than an hour at most.
 
Morn said:
If the game really launches with only 1 raid, it'll be the biggest subscription drop off in the history of the MMO genre. Even faster than WAR. People will hit 50 within the first week (trust me, they will; people race to the cap) and with only one raid to do they'll run back to WoW before the game charges them $15.
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No doubt, this is going to be the most damning thing for the game really amongst most of the MMO hardcore.
 
Dinosaur Tamer said:
One at launch is actually pretty solid. Just a quick list of PvE endgame content at launch off the top of my head (for comparison):

DAoC: pretty much nothing
GW: none (at least I think so)
WoW (vanilla): first tier of raids (so just like TOR)
TBC: first tier of raids (so just like TOR)
Wrath: first tier of raids (so just like TOR)
Cata: first tier of raids (so just like TOR)
WAR: none except for one capital raid per faction (if you want to count that)
Rift: first tier of raids (so just like TOR)
SWTOR: first tier of raids
GW2: ?

Could be slightly wrong about some of them but one raid/one tier of smaller raids is pretty much the current standard for new releases and the biggest hit of the genre actually released without a proper raid.

*Edit* Nevermind. Molten Core was there fore launch day. Just wasn't in beta.
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About GW, to be fair that game had a very large PvP focus and one of the main reasons to play PvE was to get skills unlocked for PvP.
 
BattleMonkey said:
No doubt, this is going to be the most damning thing for the game really amongst most of the MMO hardcore.
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Not sure why it should be more damaging for SWTOR than it was for every other MMORPG that launched with only one tier of raids (read: every MMORPG in existence).

I am not saying what Morn said will not happen for a certain percentage of the playerbase. But it happened for every other MMORPG before, including WoW. That's just how it is.

Billychu said:
About GW, to be fair that game had a very large PvP focus and one of the main reasons to play PvE was to get skills unlocked for PvP.
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No doubt about it. I was just trying to make a point about one raid or raid tier being perfectly normal for launch day.
 
Dinosaur Tamer said:
Not sure why it should be more damaging for SWTOR than it was for every other MMORPG that launched with only one tier of raids (read: every MMORPG in existence).
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Probably because of how expensive SWTOR is. Although I think they've stated they only need 500,000 subs to make money and with so many people preordering they're bound to keep that amount.
 
Dinosaur Tamer said:
Not sure why it should be more damaging for SWTOR than it was for every other MMORPG that launched with only one tier of raids (read: every MMORPG in existence).

I am not saying what Morn said will not happen for a certain percentage of the playerbase. But it happened for every other MMORPG before, including WoW. That's just how it is.
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The difference is that WoW from Vanilla on had a gear progression prior to doing the hard raids, which kept people playing. That's their real design secret for preventing subscriber churn early in it's life. There wasn't a massive loss of subscribers from WoW after the first month, the OPPOSITE happened. Blizzard only expected to have 500,000 subscribers by February after the November launch, and they had that after the first month.

For Molten Core, a launch raid, players had to first become attuned to it by finding this rock at the very bottom of Blackrock Depths. Then to actually SURVIVE in MC you had to clear the 15-Man Strat, Scholo, and Upper/Lower Spire to get your class armor set.

And don't even get me started on having to farm Onyxia to craft Onyxia Scale Cloaks for a 40-man guild raid to kill Nefarian in 1.6.

Time sinks like attunement and real gear progression have been thrown out to make games more casual friendly, but the backfire is that it causes a loss of subscribers much earlier.
 
Dinosaur Tamer said:
Not sure why it should be more damaging for SWTOR than it was for every other MMORPG that launched with only one tier of raids (read: every MMORPG in existence).

I am not saying what Morn said will not happen for a certain percentage of the playerbase. But it happened for every other MMORPG before, including WoW. That's just how it is.
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Eh not sure on your list, even if you consider them just tiers of raids, other games at least had variety of raids, if TOR launches with only 1, that is pretty poor. WAR from what I remember also launched with several raids, the biggest problem with it was that it never really went anywhere after that as the focus was purely on the PvP aspects and not the PvE raid content.
 
BattleMonkey said:
Eh not sure on your list, even if you consider them just tiers of raids, other games at least had variety of raids, if TOR launches with only 1, that is pretty poor. WAR from what I remember also launched with several raids, the biggest problem with it was that it never really went anywhere after that as the focus was purely on the PvP aspects and not the PvE raid content.
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Yea WAR had a couple raids at launch. Rift had a big raid similar to WoW and Raid Rifts as well.

Saying all other MMOs only had a "first tier" of raiding is just an attempt to not make TOR look lacking.
 
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