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[DTKT]

After looking forward to this game for long and spending so much time defending it... damn. I'm officially burnt out. The leveling is too slow. WAY too slow. The quests are all the standard pre-WotLK stuff you've done 1,000 times before. The dialogue at the beginning and end is nice, but most of your time is spent watching your guy travel a billion miles from A to B and then clicking something on the ground or killing X number of Y. Planets are way too big. Quest objectives are way too generic. All in all, nothing about this game feels epic. It doesn't feel like KOTOR with other players -- It feels like vanilla WoW with talking quest givers.

I'm really, really disappointed. I'll probably still keep playing because it's Star Wars... but Guild Wars 2 is looking better and better.

Ugh.

This has me really worried. This is why MMO fail for me.

 

[Rookje]

Ya know GAF, I'm proud we haven't gone the ways of putting out GW2 vs SW:TOR shit. It gets so damn old. As for the leveling curve, the longer, the better I say. Though aren't people saying it takes them what, 2 - 3 weeks of play to get to 50? That's not bad at all. Super excited to see what PAX has in store with the PvP planet.

I think it's mostly the Internet that knows or cares about GW2. Both at E3 and comic-con the lines for swtor were hours long, but GW2 you could just walk up to a booth.

 

[Dinosaur Tamer]

I just want to know if the game is looking good from those who have played it for a while. It's an MMO. Gamescon and it's controlled demos are terrible ways to know how an MMO is.

Integrity be damned.

Relying on feedback from players you know next to nothing about is a terrible way to get to know a new MMORPG. There are so many ways to play a MMORPG and so many different kinds of expectations. If I had taken some strangers opinions too serious seven years ago, I would never have played World of Warcraft. People were telling me the game is crap for not being innovative enough and I should go for Everquest 2 (no, I am not kidding).

 

[Gvaz]

I hate the Firelands dailies so badly I quit WoW.

I didn't even get to firelands before I gave up on it.

 

[EhrgeizVII]

I think it's mostly the Internet that knows or cares about GW2. Both at E3 and comic-con the lines for swtor were hours long, but GW2 you could just walk up to a booth.

Are you sure? I thought it got lots of attention. It deserves it anyway.

 

[gatti-man]

I just wish one of the hardcore fans and long posters in here would get an invite. I see criticisms but from my viewpoint the game just looks awesome. Argh.

 

[Emitan]

GW2 and SWTOR are both MMOs but going at it from different approaches. We're not going to see BF3 vs COD stuff because both of those games are "realistic" modern military shooters competing in the same time frame for the same audience. GW2 and SWTOR basically just share the same genre and have a few similarities as you would expect two games of the same genre to have but are taking different approaches and aren't necessarily targeting the same groups of people.

 

[Alex]

I'm hoping that regardless of what the quests are doing I'm entertained and challenged by them, with the right combat, social mechanics and area design quests can be very endearing even as simple fare. The same way that even with flashy mechanics, unique elements, vehicles, etc, they can be mindless, challenge devoid slop.

Personally If it's like modern WoW where it's literally more difficult to fail than succeed I would uninstall fairly fast. I rag on vanilla WoW a lot, but it had better questing in the end than modern WoW:

1.) It had people in the world beyond two weeks of launch, every zone is completely empty nowadays.

2.) It had elite quests and group quests in every single area that were genuinely challenging and fun, these no longer exist in WoW.

3.) It had normal mobs that could actually pose a big threat to you if you got jumped by an add or two, plenty of gauntlets that would encourage grouping on their own. I cannot fathom how many normal mobs it would take to kill me in modern WoW, let alone putting any thought into fighting any of them.

The questing itself was old school, by the books stuff, but to me I remember that part of the game at least more fondly than the questing in that game today. Personally, I just want some tension, incentive to explore and people roaming in the world, I don't give a shit about cutsey mechanics and vehicles anymore.

I want an MMORPG again, not solo Mario Party with levels. We'll see what we get in the end, but it feels like lately fucking single player games are doing the MMO gig better.

 

[Sigfodr]

With Cata, and ESPECIALLY in the Firelands dailies, Blizzard uses the "vehicle" system from WoLK for non-vehicle quests and it really mixes things up and makes it more fun.

Morn can have fun, confirmed.

 

[gatti-man]

I'm hoping that regardless of what the quests are doing I'm entertained and challenged by them, with the right combat, social mechanics and area design quests can be very endearing even as simple fare. The same way that even with flashy mechanics, unique elements, vehicles, etc, they can be mindless, challenge devoid slop.

Personally If it's like modern WoW where it's literally more difficult to fail than succeed I would uninstall fairly fast. I rag on vanilla WoW a lot, but it had better questing in the end than modern WoW:

1.) It had people in the world beyond two weeks of launch, every zone is completely empty nowadays.

2.) It had elite quests and group quests in every single area that were genuinely challenging and fun, these no longer exist in WoW.

3.) It had normal mobs that could actually pose a big threat to you if you got jumped by an add or two, plenty of gauntlets that would encourage grouping on their own. I cannot fathom how many normal mobs it would take to kill me in modern WoW, let alone putting any thought into fighting any of them. The questing itself was old school, by the books stuff, but to me I remember that part of the game at least more fondly than the questing in that game today.

I just want some damn tension, incentive to explore and people roaming in the world, I don't give a shit about cutsey mechanics and vehicles anymore.

Couldn't have said it better.

 

[LowParry]

GW2 and SWTOR are both MMOs but going at it from different approaches. We're not going to see BF3 vs COD stuff because both of those games are "realistic" modern military shooters competing in the same time frame for the same audience. GW2 and SWTOR basically just share the same genre and have a few similarities as you would expect two games of the same genre to have but are taking different approaches and aren't necessarily targeting the same groups of people.

That's not true at all. SW is following the more traditional MMO guidelines as GW2 is doing something different...sorta. They're just making everything dynamic. I really want to see more of what makes GW2, GW2, but right now, I just don't see what the big deal is. Aside from it looks pretty.

Two different audiences, yes. But there's a mix of that audience between the two. In the end, doesn't really matter to me. I may end up playing both.

 

[BattleMonkey]

Are you sure? I thought it got lots of attention. It deserves it anyway.

On the internet perhaps, but right now it doesn't have the hype behind it like TOR does with the more mainstream. GW2 is a ways off though so perhaps things will ramp up for it, but can imagine lot of people are just going to instantly write it off after GW1 didn't meet everyones cup of tea and they aren't going to put much trouble into looking into what makes 2 different.

 

[Belfast]

I'm hoping that regardless of what the quests are doing I'm entertained and challenged by them, with the right combat, social mechanics and area design quests can be very endearing even as simple fare. The same way that even with flashy mechanics, unique elements, vehicles, etc, they can be mindless, challenge devoid slop.

Personally If it's like modern WoW where it's literally more difficult to fail than succeed I would uninstall fairly fast. I rag on vanilla WoW a lot, but it had better questing in the end than modern WoW:

1.) It had people in the world beyond two weeks of launch, every zone is completely empty nowadays.

2.) It had elite quests and group quests in every single area that were genuinely challenging and fun, these no longer exist in WoW.

3.) It had normal mobs that could actually pose a big threat to you if you got jumped by an add or two, plenty of gauntlets that would encourage grouping on their own. I cannot fathom how many normal mobs it would take to kill me in modern WoW, let alone putting any thought into fighting any of them.

The questing itself was old school, by the books stuff, but to me I remember that part of the game at least more fondly than the questing in that game today. Personally, I just want some tension, incentive to explore and people roaming in the world, I don't give a shit about cutsey mechanics and vehicles anymore.

I want an MMORPG again, not solo Mario Party with levels. We'll see what we get in the end, but it feels like lately fucking single player games are doing the MMO gig better.

It does have group/elite quests, but I haven't found any of the quest content challenging or very interesting yet. Most enemies don't even path through areas, either. They sit around in groups of two or three waiting for you to wander through, and assuming you aren't screwed by a bugged mob or something, they're generally pretty easy to dispatch. Most enemies are super-generic thugs/battle droids, to boot.

 

[Meicyn]

That's not true at all. SW is following the more traditional MMO guidelines as GW2 is doing something different...sorta. They're just making everything dynamic. I really want to see more of what makes GW2, GW2, but right now, I just don't see what the big deal is. Aside from it looks pretty.

You really, really don't know what you're talking about. Saying that they're just making everything dynamic and then touting it as a "I don't see what the big deal is" is ridiculous.

When you take a quest in the traditional theme park style MMO like WoW or in TOR, the event isn't actually happening in the game world. You are experiencing the same exact ride that everyone else gets to experience. It's literally a theme park and everyone gets a turn. When an NPC says an army of monsters is approaching town and that you have to go stop them, this event isn't actually happening in the game world. You're either thrown into an instanced zone away from everything else, or you're basically going to kill X number of these monsters in a certain location, and these monsters will keep respawning so that everyone gets an opportunity to kill X number of them. After you kill X monsters as per the quest requirements, you run back to the NPC, collect your reward, and then you scamper off to the next quest. Meanwhile, those enemies are still respawning. Nothing in the game world actually changed.

In Guild Wars 2, the core gameplay beyond the tutorial is designed so that there aren't quests like this. When an NPC runs by and yells to you that an army of monsters is approaching town and that you have to go stop them, this is actually happening in the game. There is a finite number of these monsters to kill, they are actually approaching town in real time, and when players kill them off, they are killed off. Everyone who participated gets an appropriate reward for their efforts. If no one is there to fight them off, those monsters actually attack the town. If the enemy is victorious, they could establish a base of operations and this event can branch off into other possible events. Or maybe they just destroy it outright, and the only way it can be rebuilt is through player-involved actions. This is just one of all sorts of possible continuous events that can happen in the game. You are not going to just login as a level 10 character and be all "I need to go to X location and start doing the quests there" because you literally have no idea what's going on at any location in the game until you actually go there to see what is happening. The town you logout at may be razed ruins when you log back in the next day.

The fact that you think is "sorta different" is just absolutely mind-boggling.

 

[gatti-man]

Dang im getting so hyped for gw2 in the tor thread!

 

[Einbroch]

Relying on feedback from players you know next to nothing about is a terrible way to get to know a new MMORPG. There are so many ways to play a MMORPG and so many different kinds of expectations. If I had taken some strangers opinions too serious seven years ago, I would never have played World of Warcraft. People were telling me the game is crap for not being innovative enough and I should go for Everquest 2 (no, I am not kidding).

Well, when I hear the same thing from dozens of players of any type of beta game, I'm going to take their opinion more seriously, whether it be positive or negative.

I'm leaning GW2 over ToR right now, but I'm not an idiot. GW2 looks amazing, but all we've seen is early level content. Like Age of Conan, front-loading your content may look good in demos/press releases, but for an MMO you really need opinions from people who have played the game for a while. Does content die off? Is it not balanced later? Does the weapon skill system used lead to a more shallow experience? I need players to answer this for me, not people who have stopped by to play a 30 minute demo. Same with ToR. Demos are showing focused PVP sessions or starting areas. How much time is spent in a starting area? What percentage of the game is one type of "battleground"?

MMOs need opinions from the hardcore and casual crowds who invest the time needed to experience the game as whole.

Edit: Yay, gatti isn't a junior anymore! /champagne

 

[LowParry]

You really, really don't know what you're talking about. Saying that they're just making everything dynamic and then touting it as a "I don't see what the big deal is" is ridiculous.

And I really don't give a fuck. The game looks like nothing new I've seen and played before (yet). Deal with it.


Edit: And people really need to set their expectations down a bit. You hype shit up so high, you're gonna come crashing down hard.

 

[Meicyn]

And I really don't give a fuck. The game looks like nothing new I've seen and played before (yet). Deal with it.

It's so cute how you imitate human behavior!

By the way, thanks for throwing in the towel.

 

[FieryBalrog]

If the game is like Vanilla/TBC WoW - as some people here seem to suggest - it's much less casual than Cataclysm.

I know Ops aren't in the game yet- but let me point you to the devs own words.

http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/08/18/s...ds-rewards-for-all-no-gear-grinding-required/

That is absolutely nothing like Vanilla/TBC. Even if the hard modes are actually hard, that just makes it like Wrath/Cata, if anything easier since they expect Normal modes to be done without voice communication and with the gear that you hit max level with.

We suggested to Bioware lead designer Gabe Amatangelo that World of Warcraft’s five hour, 25 man raids were too lengthy and complex to attract a mainstream audience.

“We absolutely agree with you on that,” he said “the Operations we have are going to be… the time commitment is light, and is very flexible as to who comes in and out of the raid, or the Ops as it were.”

“The difficulty level is; as soon as you hit max level, the gear that you’re in, you can put a group together, you can go in and you can do Normal mode difficulty and experience these iconic, epic Star Wars moments with your friends as well as people you just met.

“We don’t intend or we don’t expect people to be on Vent and communicating with each other, but we expect them to know how to play their class because if you’ve gotten to Level 50, you know how to play your class. And we want to just make sure that we open it up so that a lot of people can enjoy these epic Star Wars moments.”

 

[Trouble]

And I really don't give a fuck. The game looks like nothing new I've seen and played before (yet). Deal with it.


Edit: And people really need to set their expectations down a bit. You hype shit up so high, you're gonna come crashing down hard.

Methinks this applies to GW2, as well.

 

[LowParry]

Methinks this applies to GW2, as well.

It's far worse in GW2. They think it's the second coming of christ.

 

[gatti-man]

Edit: Yay, gatti isn't a junior anymore! /champagne

You noticed!

 

[Iadien]

It's far worse in GW2. They think it's the second coming of christ.

Well, GW2 actually has new ideas. =p

 

[Meicyn]

Well, GW2 actually has new ideas. =p

Careful. Recognizing that Guild Wars 2 is trying a different approach is akin to expecting the second coming of Jesus, apparently.

 

[Morn]

There is a finite number of these monsters to kill, they are actually approaching town in real time, and when players kill them off, they are killed off. Everyone who participated gets an appropriate reward for their efforts. If no one is there to fight them off, those monsters actually attack the town. If the enemy is victorious, they could establish a base of operations and this event can branch off into other possible events. Or maybe they just destroy it outright, and the only way it can be rebuilt is through player-involved actions. This is just one of all sorts of possible continuous events that can happen in the game. You are not going to just login as a level 10 character and be all "I need to go to X location and start doing the quests there" because you literally have no idea what's going on at any location in the game until you actually go there to see what is happening. The town you logout at may be razed ruins when you log back in the next day.

The fact that you think is "sorta different" is just absolutely mind-boggling.

It's Rift's dynamic content and Lodestone system, with different presentation.

 

[Belfast]

From everything we know, GW2 currently has the most potential to push the genre forward. A lot of those concepts could backfire when more people get to play the game, but at least they're giving it a shot.

TOR's biggest asset in terms of the genre is that it comes draped in a Star Wars skin.

 

[Baller. PhD]

Careful. Recognizing that Guild Wars 2 is trying a different approach is akin to expecting the second coming of Jesus, apparently.

Better get your attitude in check, Junior. You won't long here by stirring up confrontations.

 

[Meicyn]

It's Rift's dynamic content and Lodestone system, with different presentation.

Different presentation and a lot more complexity. Rift's dynamic content does not chain and/or branch off into other possible events based on player success/loss.

Better get your attitude in check, Junior. You won't long here by stirring up confrontations.

Ahaha. Are you seriously throwing around seniority on a freaking internet forum? But if you really want to go that route, I registered my account months before you registered yours.

This place is full of snark and confrontation, especially in the off topic forum. I'm just another asshole in a gaming community full of them.

 

[Einbroch]

Ahaha. Are you seriously throwing around seniority on a freaking internet forum? But if you really want to go that route, I registered my account months before you registered yours.

This place is full of snark and confrontation, especially in the off topic forum. I'm just another asshole in a gaming community full of them.

Only juniors play Alchemists.

Snap son, snap.

 

[Meicyn]

Only juniors play Alchemists.

Snap son, snap.

On that note, Torchlight 2 is going to be pimp. I don't know how the hell I'm supposed to juggle Torchlight 2, Guild Wars 2, and Star Wars: TOR all at once AND still play all the awesome offline titles coming in the next year.

 

[gatti-man]

From everything we know, GW2 currently has the most potential to push the genre forward. A lot of those concepts could backfire when more people get to play the game, but at least they're giving it a shot.

TOR's biggest asset in terms of the genre is that it comes draped in a Star Wars skin.

And what a gloriously beautiful skin it is.

 

[Trouble]

Ahaha. Are you seriously throwing around seniority on a freaking internet forum? But if you really want to go that route, I registered my account months before you registered yours.

More like he meant you'll get banned for intentionally crapping up a thread. You've made your opinion known. Continuing to attempt to derail this thread with your GW2 e-boner only ends one way...

 

[Einbroch]

On that note, Torchlight 2 is going to be pimp. I don't know how the hell I'm supposed to juggle Torchlight 2, Guild Wars 2, and Star Wars: TOR all at once AND still play all the awesome offline titles coming in the next year.

Here's a little heirarchy chart:

 

[water_wendi]

In Guild Wars 2, the core gameplay beyond the tutorial is designed so that there aren't quests like this. When an NPC runs by and yells to you that an army of monsters is approaching town and that you have to go stop them, this is actually happening in the game. There is a finite number of these monsters to kill, they are actually approaching town in real time, and when players kill them off, they are killed off. Everyone who participated gets an appropriate reward for their efforts. If no one is there to fight them off, those monsters actually attack the town. If the enemy is victorious, they could establish a base of operations and this event can branch off into other possible events. Or maybe they just destroy it outright, and the only way it can be rebuilt is through player-involved actions. This is just one of all sorts of possible continuous events that can happen in the game. You are not going to just login as a level 10 character and be all "I need to go to X location and start doing the quests there" because you literally have no idea what's going on at any location in the game until you actually go there to see what is happening. The town you logout at may be razed ruins when you log back in the next day.

This sounds exactly like Horizons.

 

[Dinosaur Tamer]

Well, GW2 actually has new ideas. =p

It does and I don't think anyone doubts that. GW2 clearly looks much more innovative than SWTOR does. But the question is, if that is necessarily a good thing. A new feature is not guaranteed to be a good feature.

Personally, after playing the game for multiple hours in 2010 and 2011, I don't like where it's heading. That is because I don't like the idea of players setting abilities on autocast, I don't like players executing skillchains by spamming a single button, I don't want everyone to have a button to instantly get their character out of the danger zone for an incoming AOE ability - movement and positioning should remain important and should be executed by the player (Note: this would be OK as a class ability) and I really don't like GW2 PvP feeling like Team Fortress with Action Bars. This is highly subjective of course. Others might love all of this, but I suspect GW2 will have a hard stand with many old fashioned MMORPG veterans.

That is absolutely nothing like Vanilla/TBC. Even if the hard modes are actually hard, that just makes it like Wrath/Cata, if anything easier since they expect Normal modes to be done without voice communication and with the gear that you hit max level with.

With more than two modes (confirmed at gamescom), who cares about the easiest one being done by pick up groups? And if the hardest mode is actually hard, it's just like TBC with an added easy mode, which sounds like a pretty good way to get the (casual) masses to see the raid content without continuously dumping down normal and hard mode like Blizzard did to open up raid content to a wider audience.

It's hardly surprising leakers claim the content is pretty easy with people testing a beta version of the easiest of the three modes and we both don't know how difficult the three modes are going to be at launch. With people claiming the game is closer to Vanilla than Cataclysm, there actually being three modes (starting with "Normal") and Cataclysm being as easy as it is, I'd still say chances are good SWTOR will have some more challenging content.

*Edit*:

This sounds exactly like Horizons.

Or a glorified and possibly slightly improved version of Rift's signature feature, which was a glorified and slightly improved version of WAR's public quests. But let's all get hyped for innovation.

Yeah, I know. Some other stuff in GW2 actually is pretty innovative.

 

[Meicyn]

More like he meant you'll get banned for intentionally crapping up a thread. You've made your opinion known. Continuing to attempt to derail this thread with your GW2 e-boner only ends one way...

That's funny. Guild Wars 2 has been brought up out of nowhere numerous times in this thread, and none of those times by me. You can accuse me of many things (being a Bioware fanboy, a total douche tool, a loser, etc.), but intentional derailment of this thread isn't one of them.

Here's a little heirarchy chart:

Beautiful.

I suck at PvP though. Like, really bad. I will probably be the worst Sith Warrior ever. I already planned on being a light side Sith (AKA troll with a heart of gold), and I'm probably going to get raped by smugglers.

GW2 clearly looks much more innovative than SWTOR does. But the question is, if that is necessarily a good thing. A new feature is not guaranteed to be a good feature.

Yeah, that's my concern as well. I love the concept, but I fear the execution. I'm also concerned about the longevity of the game and potential content updates due to the lack of a monthly fee. I think Arenanet may have made a mistake in calling the game Guild Wars 2, because it seems a lot of folks aren't aware of how much of a different approach the game is taking from its predecessor.

Which is more or less why TOR is the game I'm focused on the most with Guild Wars 2 being a potential fun romp that I play as an alternative when I don't feel like logging in to TOR.

 

[Emitan]

On that note, Torchlight 2 is going to be pimp. I don't know how the hell I'm supposed to juggle Torchlight 2, Guild Wars 2, and Star Wars: TOR all at once AND still play all the awesome offline titles coming in the next year.

I'm going to be juggling Torchlight 2, Grim Dawn, Path of Exile, SWTOR and GW2. It's going to be insane!

 

[Gunmonkey36]

I'm going to be juggling Torchlight 2, Grim Dawn, Path of Exile, SWTOR and GW2. It's going to be insane!

It's fine, I hear sleeping, eating, schooling/working is overrated anyway.

I am going to be playing a similar juggling game with a plethora of titles.

 

[Meicyn]

It's fine, I hear sleeping, eating, schooling/working is overrated anyway.

Definitely. I'm going to be a gigantic nerd and take a week off when TOR launches. The sooner they announce the release date, the sooner I can schedule it.

 

[Emitan]

It's fine, I hear sleeping, eating, schooling/working is overrated anyway.

I am going to be playing a similar juggling game with a plethora of titles.

Path of Exile right now (in the beta!), Torchlight and SWTOR are this year and I can maybe handle all 3 of those. Depending on when the Grim Dawn beta comes out, as well as GW2 I'll see how it goes.

 

[Einbroch]

Path of Exile right now (in the beta!), Torchlight and SWTOR are this year and I can maybe handle all 3 of those. Depending on when the Grim Dawn beta comes out, as well as GW2 I'll see how it goes.

No Skyrim? I used to think you were cool.

 

[Emitan]

No Skyrim? I used to think you were cool.

Somehow I forgot to list it despite having it preordered. My brain can't keep track of so many games that I don't have time to play!

In other news...

 

[Souljiro]

Here's a little heirarchy chart:

Haha this chart is awesome I will be playing all of them if only I had more time and more hands!

 

[LowParry]

http://i.imgur.com/aJZzn.png

The wall of shame

 

[Emitan]

The wall of shame

It's only shameful because you're not numero uno

Spoiler

oh god what am i doing with my life

 

[Einbroch]

It's only shameful because you're not numero uno

Spoiler

oh god what am i doing with my life

Clearly posting in this thread, loser.

...I'm just jealous.

 

[HarryDemeanor]

Didn't think I would end up on the Wall of Shame. Certainly something to put on my resume.

 

[Emitan]

Right now GAF has 5,000 people viewing it. Every time I bump this thread thousands of people see the name of this game. I should get beta access

Spoiler

or money

for all of the free advertising I'm giving Bioware.

 

[LowParry]

Right now GAF has 5,000 people viewing it. Every time I bump this thread thousands of people see the name of this game. I should get beta access

Spoiler

or money

for all of the free advertising I'm giving Bioware.

Just pimp out the thread during PAX this weekend

 

[Spehornoob]

I Others might love all of this, but I suspect GW2 will have a hard stand with many old fashioned MMORPG veterans.

When it comes to GW2, I think this guy hit the nail on the head right here. I love all the stuff that GW2 is doing. It's honestly the kind of game I personally pictured when I heard the concept of an MMO. But it's changing a ton, and MMO vets aren't gonna like it all.

And is nothing at all wrong with a traditional MMO experience. Just because TOR takes a fairly safe route in it's mechanics doesn't make it any better or worse than GW2. That's why the small fandom rivalry between the two games doesn't make any sense to me. They're trying to accomplish completely different things.

Looking forward like Hell to the both of them.