Support NeoGAF

[Major Williams]

http://static.arstechnica.com/assets/2009/02/UpdatedHydralisk-thumb-640xauto-2125.jpg[IMG]
I'm not seeing it[/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080617160527/starcraft/images/thumb/d/d5/Ultralisk_SC2_Game2.jpg/180px-Ultralisk_SC2_Game2.jpg
Blegh to me.

Compared to:

 

[The Lamonster]

I'm not seeing it

Is this the Hydra thru development? Like an early version and then the current version?

 

[Ri'Orius]

2. I do NOT like how you can not mass-employ a given super power (i.e. multiple nukes, multiple 120mm cannons, or whatever power). Unless I'm missing something.

Er, what? It's now way easier to do so.

In SCBW, if you have, say, three HTs and you want to Psi Storm with all of them, you needed to click each one individually and command him to Storm (unless you want them all to storm the same place, which is usually dumb).

In SC2, you can select them all (as well as a bunch of Stalkers and Zeals, etc.), and then just hit the Storm hotkey, click, repeat to lay down three storms wherever you want.

Way easier.

 

[Ashhong]

Balance things:

1. As I've stated before, the flying medic is ridiculous for Terran, and IMO less of a viable strategy than the field medics.

2. I do NOT like how you can not mass-employ a given super power (i.e. multiple nukes, multiple 120mm cannons, or whatever power). Unless I'm missing something.

3. For some reason, I could not 'blink' teleport my Stalkers behind enemy troops when they were being attacked.

4. I miss Reavers. Colossus is a welcome addition, but not Immortals... (IMO of course)

5. I know an update was needed, but just keep some of the original designs of the first game for crying out loud - did the probe REALLY need a redesign? I like continuity in a game, and how flashy you can make it game to game, not how often you can redesign something that doesn't need it.

6. This is just opinion. One reason I liked Starcraft is because of the ART. Look at the CG cutscenes, then look at the first game. Looks awesome, and so vastly different from other Bizzard games. Now look at WoW, its sprites and art direction. Now look at the Zerg in SC2. Its like I'm playing WoW as the Zerg, seriously. I liked the Halo Flood-type vibe I got from the Zerg, now its like controlling WoW. Major turn-off for me, very seriously. The way things are animated and move looks like its from WoW.

Take apart and criticize as necessary

1. What is you're probelm with the medivacs? I quite like the fact that the medic and drop
ship have been combined into one. Also makes it much easier to organize my MMM army.

2. Mass-employ? You mean like have 1 bc use 5 yamato shots at once? Now that sounds unbalanced. Or do you mean if you hve 5 BC you want them all to use their cannon at the same time? Select all of them, and press the hotkey 5 times, choosing the building or unit u want to hit every time.

3. You have to have vision of where you want to blink, so that might be way. Or it could have been too far away.

4. Reavers were ok, but way too slow. I think colossus is better

 

[F#A#Oo]

Well then, need to add you.

Belgorim --> belgorim.alvar
corum --> corum.corum
Des0lar --> Desolar.darudin
fanboi --> fanboi.gaf
maniac-kun --> maniackun.gaf
msv --> msv.whaeva
raphier --> rainy.raphier
twdnewh_k --- Crpt.twdnewh
V_Arnold -> Oldern.gaf
mcbradders --> mcbradders.mcbradders
F#A#Oo --> affluenza.gaf

Tournament:

fanboi --> fanboi.gaf
mcbradders --> mcbradders.mcbradders

I added myself to list...

 

[Major Williams]

Er, what? It's now way easier to do so.

In SCBW, if you have, say, three HTs and you want to Psi Storm with all of them, you needed to click each one individually and command him to Storm (unless you want them all to storm the same place, which is usually dumb).

In SC2, you can select them all (as well as a bunch of Stalkers and Zeals, etc.), and then just hit the Storm hotkey, click, repeat to lay down three storms wherever you want.

Way easier.

I was specifically thinking of a situation:

Roll in 5 Thors into a Zerg base > Select them all > Click on 120mm cannon > Click on Main Zerg Base > The closest 2 Thors use their power, the other 3 are STILL attacking whatever they were originally attacking, and don't even BOTHER to roll their way into range to do 120mm cannons > Click on EACH one, click 120mm cannon on Zerg base. Way too much potential for error in a mass situation.

 

[The Lamonster]

I was specifically thinking of a situation:

Roll in 5 Thors into a Zerg base > Select them all > Click on 120mm cannon > Click on Main Zerg Base > The closest 2 Thors use their power, the other 3 are STILL attacking whatever they were originally attacking, and don't even BOTHER to roll their way into range to do 120mm cannons > Click on EACH one, click 120mm cannon on Zerg base. Way too much potential for error in a mass situation.

All you have to do is click the cannon button 5 times for 5 Thors.

 

[Ri'Orius]

I was specifically thinking of a situation:

Roll in 5 Thors into a Zerg base > Select them all > Click on 120mm cannon > Click on Main Zerg Base > The closest 2 Thors use their power, the other 3 are STILL attacking whatever they were originally attacking, and don't even BOTHER to roll their way into range to do 120mm cannons > Click on EACH one, click 120mm cannon on Zerg base. Way too much potential for error in a mass situation.

I believe in that situation you'd want to select all of them and go Power, Target, Power, Target, Power, Target, etc. Each click of Power, Target will tell one guy selected to use the Power on the Target. So you'd need five sets of clicks.

Maybe less convenient for the case when you really do want to use the power on the same target a bunch of times, but compared to how easy it is now to spread out Storms and Force Fields, it's a huge improvement.

 

[Major Williams]

All you have to do is click the cannon button 5 times for 5 Thors.

Thanks. Seems counter-intuitive to me, but useful for the higher-level players.

I still stand resolute on my Zerg/WoW art direction pissed-off-ed-ness.

 

[zoukka]

EU GAF zoukka.fin

 

[The Lamonster]

Thanks. Seems counter-intuitive to me, but useful for the higher-level players.

If you use a hotkey for the power and use the mouse for targeting, it only takes like 5 seconds to use a bunch of units' powers and you'll get used to it and realize that this new way of using mass powers is super awesome.

 

[Ashhong]

anybody know what determines what power can be selected? for example, say you want to use Sentry's forcefield. when i have it in a large group of say, zealots, i can still see the option for forcefield. however there have been times, maybe if i have stalkers in the group, where i dont see that option anymore. i would rather not have separate groups for different powers as my micro sucks. this goes for thigns like stalker blink, carrier interceptors, etc etc

 

[Exhumed]

I'm having a really hard time countering MMM as toss. Any advice?

Edit: Add me to the list for US. Exhumed.exhumed

 

[Milabrega]

Have the control group selected and press "tab" it'll shuffle through unit types and spellcaster options.

I'm having a really hard time countering MMM as toss. Any advice

Sentries early on. High Templars or Colossi later. I prefer Colossi, though Vikings could be a huge wrench in that plan so scout once the Robo goes up.

 

[ultron87]

Psi-Storm works pretty well. You just need to have it ready by the time they get there.

 

[Corran Horn]

anybody know what determines what power can be selected? for example, say you want to use Sentry's forcefield. when i have it in a large group of say, zealots, i can still see the option for forcefield. however there have been times, maybe if i have stalkers in the group, where i dont see that option anymore. i would rather not have separate groups for different powers as my micro sucks. this goes for thigns like stalker blink, carrier interceptors, etc etc

Higher priorities spell caster appear above others. To get to other spellcasters hit tab

 

[Ashhong]

Higher priorities spell caster appear above others. To get to other spellcasters hit tab

awesome, did not know this. i remember a lot of talk about hitting "tab" when controlling a variety of units or buildings...i should check it out.

and i want another 2v2 game against you where i dont get beat down by fucking dark templar :lol

 

[Corran Horn]

awesome, did not know this. i remember a lot of talk about hitting "tab" when controlling a variety of units or buildings...i should check it out.

and i want another 2v2 game against you where i dont get beat down by fucking dark templar :lol

:lol Im at school atm but maybe later.

Dark Templars rock in 2v2s because you can get your partner to help out defending and putting pressure while your units sneak in and destroy shit

 

[momolicious]

For those who preordered from Amazon, how long did it take you to get beta keys?

ordered like thursday, still havent got anything

 

[Won]

Thanks. Seems counter-intuitive to me, but useful for the higher-level players.

I think you can shift-click through your targets too, without pressing the hotkey for the ability all the time.

 

[momolicious]

Blegh to me.

Compared to:

How does that look and animate like World of Warcraft!? Just because they are both in 3d?

 

[Ferrio]

:lol Im at school atm but maybe later.

Dark Templars rock in 2v2s because you can get your partner to help out defending and putting pressure while your units sneak in and destroy shit

I still don't know quite what to think of DTs. They tend to have no middle ground. Either they clean up or they get their ass kicked. You pretty much have to pray your opponents aren't terran and they haven't gotton any obs. Seeing how in 2v2 there's usually always a terran player, i rarely ever get to use them.

 

[MisterAnderson]

Balance things:

1. As I've stated before, the flying medic is ridiculous for Terran, and IMO less of a viable strategy than the field medics.

2. I do NOT like how you can not mass-employ a given super power (i.e. multiple nukes, multiple 120mm cannons, or whatever power). Unless I'm missing something.

3. For some reason, I could not 'blink' teleport my Stalkers behind enemy troops when they were being attacked.

4. I miss Reavers. Colossus is a welcome addition, but not Immortals... (IMO of course)

5. I know an update was needed, but just keep some of the original designs of the first game for crying out loud - did the probe REALLY need a redesign? I like continuity in a game, and how flashy you can make it game to game, not how often you can redesign something that doesn't need it.

6. This is just opinion. One reason I liked Starcraft is because of the ART. Look at the CG cutscenes, then look at the first game. Looks awesome, and so vastly different from other Bizzard games. Now look at WoW, its sprites and art direction. Now look at the Zerg in SC2. Its like I'm playing WoW as the Zerg, seriously. I liked the Halo Flood-type vibe I got from the Zerg, now its like controlling WoW. Major turn-off for me, very seriously. The way things are animated and move looks like its from WoW.

Take apart and criticize as necessary

No offense, but for the most part your opinions don't make any sense. The Medivac is far more useful than the Medic. Are you getting like, two Medivacs and that's it? Get a bunch. Your MMM ball will be incredibly powerful.

And regarding "mass employing powers," all you do is highlight the control group then hotkey>target, hotkey>target, hotkey>target. It's much more intuitive than (what I think) you're suggesting. I think what you want is to highlight your control group, click the 250MM cannon ONCE and then have EVERY Thor start strike cannoning the target. This is a BAD idea and would give you much less control over your units. Being able to strike cannon different targets is much more effective (plus you can easily mass target 1 unit by just clicking the same target...) I'm not sure why you think the way it is now is not easy or intuitive, because like it's been mentioned it's a hell of a lot easier than in BW. Have you seen videos of people using force field?

Regarding the art...the probe...really? I wouldn't even call the probe a redesign. The probe looks exactly the same...only a bit cooler since it has little subtle animations as it mines. I don't get the WoW comparison either, but to each his own.

Also Immortals are one of my favorite units in the game, as well as the Collosus, so yeah...lol. (Reavers blow )

 

[Corran Horn]

I dont mind against terrans, close them to at least 2 bases and dont rush all your DTs at once. Make them waste multiple scans etc. and if you can sneak in the mineral line, a few DTs can destroy tons of workers

 

[Orangepeel]

Speaking of dt's (dk= death knights? lol)

I didn't realize the overlord has to be upgraded for a detector now, asdgagasf, lost a match entirely in my favor cause of such a silly mistake.

 

[mbmonk]

I also heard that as Protoss you can press the 'W' key and it will select all of your gateways in warp mode ( warpgates? ) even if you didn't bind them to a control group.

But I haven't had a chance to see if that is real.

 

[Exhumed]

Psi-Storm works pretty well. You just need to have it ready by the time they get there.

Have the control group selected and press "tab" it'll shuffle through unit types and spellcaster options.

Sentries early on. High Templars or Colossi later. I prefer Colossi, though Vikings could be a huge wrench in that plan so scout once the Robo goes up.

Yea, precisely what I was thinking. I have to work on my build order a bit as I barely get collosi out before a mid game push happens. I usually end up teching too late as I get scared of drops/muta/Banshee harass so I divert some minerals to a few pylons and cannons. Managing to get in a couple HT with psionic storm is another issue. Practice makes perfect I suppose.

Did not know about the tab function. I imagine it works the same when you have multiple buildings selected? ie. Warp Gates and Nexus in one group.

 

[Ferrio]

Speaking of dt's (dk= death knights? lol)

I didn't realize the overlord has to be upgraded for a detector now, asdgagasf, lost a match entirely in my favor cause of such a silly mistake.

Oh I didn't know that as well... good chance. Maybe I'll take out the DTs more on zerg opponents.

 

[Corran Horn]

I also heard that as Protoss you can press the 'W' key and it will select all of your gateways in warp mode ( warpgates? ) even if you didn't bind them to a control group.

But I haven't had a chance to see if that is real.

Yep. I rarely bind gateways/warpgates to keys anymore outside of first few minutes

 

[Ferrio]

Okay what is the advantage of a warpgate? I build some... only thing I could see as an advantage is you could warp troops behind enemy lines, but that seems risky. Does it have any other benefits other than having the build time charge AFTER a unit has been built?

 

[Corran Horn]

Instant units and wait time inbetween units are actually quicker. You can warp in units where you need them, like closer to a battle. But you cant queue units.

 

[mbmonk]

Speaking of dt's (dk= death knights? lol)

I didn't realize the overlord has to be upgraded for a detector now, asdgagasf, lost a match entirely in my favor cause of such a silly mistake.

Yea. I won a game against a zerg because of this. DT's = win in that scenario.

I don't know how much damage Dt's do per hit, but it must be pretty massive. I had 5 DT's in his base and it took down his spire damn near instantly. Good times. Good times.

 

[mbmonk]

backspace for switching between bases

Is this true?

 

[MisterAnderson]

Okay what is the advantage of a warpgate? I build some... only thing I could see as an advantage is you could warp troops behind enemy lines, but that seems risky. Does it have any other benefits other than having the build time charge AFTER a unit has been built?

Always get warpgates. It should be the first thing you research as soon as the cyber core is done. And build lots of them as you get more minerals so that you can warp in a lot of troops at once.

Quick question: At high yield expansions, are the vespene geysers also high yield? I thought the answer to this was "no", but in the map editor there's a "high yield geyser" and I'm making a 2v2 map and want to know if I'm supposed to use that or the regular geyser at a gold mineral location.

 

[Tacitus_]

Blegh to me.

Compared to:

And you didn't bother to link the concept art for the Ultralisk?

Or how about Ghost which used mostly BW designs?

The only thing that got added in SC2 are the second set of blades .

 

[The Lamonster]

wow that makes me want StarCraft: GHOST

 

[Haly]

Warpgates: Assuming you make a unit everytime the warpgate is cooled down, you will get more units. I don't know the exact times and you can probably check this in the map editor.

Warp gates also allow you to make a forward pylon (bringing a probe with your main army to lay down a pylon during a push/seige) to warp in units as reinforcements.

 

[Major Williams]

And you didn't bother to link the concept art for the Ultralisk?

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20071115112734/starcraft/images/a/a4/Ultralisk_SC1_Cncpt1.jpgIMG]

Or how about Ghost which used mostly BW designs?

[IMG]http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080503040123/starcraft/images/1/1d/Ultralisk_SC-G_Art1.jpgIMG]

The only thing that got added in SC2 are the second set of blades .[/QUOTE]
I did not include those because those are not in-game assets of the games I am talking about and directly complaining against.

[IMG]http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090129014840/starcraft/images/thumb/c/c9/Ultralisk_SC2_Rend1.jpg/200px-Ultralisk_SC2_Rend1.jpg
Specifically talking about IN game units. The Ultras in particular look like something that can be mounted in WoW. Looks like the same graphic artist penned it, and that's not a good thing when you're entirely switching universes.

What made SC, and SC:BW so great was that the units looked almost life-like, or at least, what could be interpreted as almost to scale with itself. These units, most everything included, has blown out proportions of itself now in SC2 (for the Ultra, large crest, small legs, LARGE hooves, small body in comparison to concept art), similar problem for all other units. It seemed that in SC1, the units, in proportion to themselves, looked like they could actually feasibly exist and didn't look like someone DREW them.

 

[fanboi]

There's not really any reason to get a second hatch before pool.

I did 14 pool...

 

[Ferrio]

Warpgates: Assuming you make a unit everytime the warpgate is cooled down, you will get more units. I don't know the exact times and you can probably check this in the map editor.

Warp gates also allow you to make a forward pylon (bringing a probe with your main army to lay down a pylon during a push/seige) to warp in units as reinforcements.

Can you group warpgates in a single selection and warp them all in? Or do you have to tab through each one to warp?

 

[MrCompletely]

I am hungry for the release date to this game, it feels so close! I'm thinking mid-end of summer, just off of pure speculation.

 

[Won]

Can you group warpgates in a single selection and warp them all in? Or do you have to tab through each one to warp?

Hotkey W. All Warpgates in there. No tab needed.

 

[Orangepeel]

the picture of the units posted are all from a close in perpective, not really fair since you play the game from the topdown view, also not as zoomed in. my 2 cents

 

[Mudkips]

I did not include those because those are not in-game assets of the games I am talking about and directly complaining against.

Specifically talking about IN game units. The Ultras in particular look like something that can be mounted in WoW. Looks like the same graphic artist penned it, and that's not a good thing when you're entirely switching universes.

Don't bother. GAF has decided to not see the blatant WoWness in SC2.
It's been years since someone last pointed it out.

Spoiler

This is from WoW

 

[ZealousD]

I'm having a really hard time countering MMM as toss. Any advice?

High Templars tear MMM to toasty bits. Back em up with zealots and stalkers.

 

[Milabrega]

High Templars tear MMM to toasty bits. Back em up with zealots and stalkers.

Don't forget a few sentries to split forces/cut off retreat/shield/illusion.

 

[Haly]

I prefer colossi for a more immediate anti MMM than templars.

 

[MeshuggahMan]

I never thought I'd see someone complain about a probe "redesign". Maybe I'm not very observant of art, but all the units look and feel like I'd expect them to from the graphic overhaul.

 

[zoukka]

Specifically talking about IN game units. The Ultras in particular look like something that can be mounted in WoW. Looks like the same graphic artist penned it, and that's not a good thing when you're entirely switching universes.

What made SC, and SC:BW so great was that the units looked almost life-like, or at least, what could be interpreted as almost to scale with itself. These units, most everything included, has blown out proportions of itself now in SC2 (for the Ultra, large crest, small legs, LARGE hooves, small body in comparison to concept art), similar problem for all other units.

They are bound to look more similar with WoW (and other games) because of the 3D engine and the relatively low-poly units. But I don't get your complaints because the Zerg is easily the best looking race in SC2. Protoss has some really nice and really bad units and the whole mech of Terran looks bland.

It seemed that in SC1, the units, in proportion to themselves, looked like they could actually feasibly exist and didn't look like someone DREW them.

Here you seem to slip into insanity. SC2 is pretty damn faithful to the original designs. The whole Terran army is more realistic looking than in SC.

 

[Major Williams]

the picture of the units posted are all from a close in perpective, not really fair since you play the game from the topdown view, also not as zoomed in. my 2 cents

To be 'fair', almost all of the 'Toss units look pretty decent, except the ground troops (Zealot, Templar out of proportion), and some of the Humans do look similar to the line art, though the large boots is something I haven't been a fan of since the beginning.

The Battlecruiser is inexcusable though. No matter how far you zoom out, you cannot excuse the large neck and the weird proportions of an in-atmosphere and space-bound capital ship. It's huge, and you need to make it small enough to look big, but not overpower the entire viewpoint. But still, don't make it look like it's a 1,000 foot ship that went through the trash compactor to become a 36 foot ship. This is the kind of crappy art I'm talking about that slips through the cracks.

Don't bother. GAF has decided to not see the blatant WoWness in SC2.
It's been years since someone last pointed it out.

http://i39.tinypic.com/23tp40n.jpgIMG]
[spoiler]This is from WoW[/spoiler][/QUOTE]
Yea, thanks for that. I'm a Blizzard fan, and a HUGE Starcraft fanboy, but I'm 26 now. I don't have a cloudy veil cloaking my good sensibility. They just borrowed art direction from something that shouldn't be borrowed from.