Support NeoGAF

[Corran Horn]

Haven't played in years.
I can't remember all the units/abilities/buildings for protoss : (
Is there any beginner tutorials out there?

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Protoss_Strategy

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Units

Here is video of a basic opener
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ah69S-TsQa8
Its old so some stuff is out of date, like zerg dont often roach rush anymore after they have been nerfed, so you can get stalkers out earlier (which you will need against terran for reaper harass)

Even as a Protoss player I agree with this. They're a little too ridiculous when powered up.

Eh...they can be strong but they are easily countered if scouted right since they are weak.

 

[pedr0theli0n]

cant seem to deal with mass hydras as a terran player... they completely own MMM, hellions dont seem to work either. ive tried banshees but its always so easy for them to get an overseer. I guess i need to try seige tanks, but those are difficult to use well, especially from an offensive standpoint.

 

[decon]

Oh man, just hold of a key Now I'll actually have a good reason to follow this thread.

 

[Yaweee]

cant seem to deal with mass hydras as a terran player... they completely own MMM, hellions dont seem to work either. ive tried banshees but its always so easy for them to get an overseer. I guess i need to try seige tanks, but those are difficult to use well, especially from an offensive standpoint.

Thors, thors, THORS! That's like their freaking specialty; the damage they do one-shots hydras with minimal wasted overkill.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Void Rays seriously need to lose their charge when switching targets.
Shit be ridiculous.

Void Rays would kind of suck if this was implemented. Void Rays can still be countered easily by large groups of units that can attack air. A group of 30 marines or so with Stimpack can obliterate Void Rays.

 

[Dynamic3]

I haven't been able to, and still can't, connect since the update last night. Is b.net down for anyone else?

 

[Deleted member 17706]

cant seem to deal with mass hydras as a terran player... they completely own MMM, hellions dont seem to work either. ive tried banshees but its always so easy for them to get an overseer. I guess i need to try seige tanks, but those are difficult to use well, especially from an offensive standpoint.

They own MMM? Have you upgraded your units at all? Are you using Stimpacks? Maybe a few more Medivacs would help.

 

[Procarbine]

NIN: I'd be careful about mass hydra, but it can work if you really really get numbers.

I like hydra/roach with either infestors or speed banelings. Evn though roaches take bonus damage from maras, 20 total, it still takes 8 shots to kill a roach, same as the 80 HP hydra, and they soak up more marine damage, so it's nice to have at least a few to tank damage for a bit.

If you go with banelings, make sure you engage your army first and then send them, force him to either target fire them with an action or eat it if he's looking away.

Brood Lord is always an option as well.

 

[webrunner]

Is it just me, or is the Mothership a lot more underwhelming then it was going to be.. I mean, other than vortex, it's basically just a giant arbiter you can only have one of (Recall, mass cloak).

As a result it's seldom anything other than cannon fodder because the cloak more or less ensures it becomes the only target.. at least before you could bring extra Arbiters.

I guess that's what happens when you systematically lose all of your signature abilities... it'd be nice if it had have kept at least one of Planet Cracker, Black Hole, or Time Bomb...

 

[Corran Horn]

Is it just me, or is the Mothership a lot more underwhelming then it was going to be.. I mean, other than vortex, it's basically just a giant arbiter you can only have one of (Recall, mass cloak).

As a result it's seldom anything other than cannon fodder because the cloak more or less ensures it becomes the only target.. at least before you could bring extra Arbiters.

I guess that's what happens when you systematically lose all of your signature abilities... it'd be nice if it had have kept at least one of Planet Cracker, Black Hole, or Time Bomb...

I was talking about it to a friend the other day. Now that it cant warp anymore...its useless for the large cost and time. Its so slow that any anti air can pick it off. Im more than willing to give up vortex to shrink it in size and make it faster....but then it would be call an arbiter...lol

 

[watership]

Oh man, just hold of a key Now I'll actually have a good reason to follow this thread.

I've been out of the loop completely on this. Are there still key's to get? I thought I missed out so I just gave up.

EDIT: Figured it out, BestBuy.ca has a promotion.

 

[ahoyhoy]

I haven't been able to, and still can't, connect since the update last night. Is b.net down for anyone else?

The client loads EXTREMELY slow and fails to connect for me, so I'd say yes.

 

[ahoyhoy]

Is it just me, or is the Mothership a lot more underwhelming then it was going to be.. I mean, other than vortex, it's basically just a giant arbiter you can only have one of (Recall, mass cloak).

As a result it's seldom anything other than cannon fodder because the cloak more or less ensures it becomes the only target.. at least before you could bring extra Arbiters.

I guess that's what happens when you systematically lose all of your signature abilities... it'd be nice if it had have kept at least one of Planet Cracker, Black Hole, or Time Bomb...

The Arbiter was a pretty cheap unit in SC1, so I can see why they decided to introduce a nerfed version in SC2. I really just wish they would give us a unique Mothership-type unit though akin to the original design

 

[The Lamonster]

I haven't been able to, and still can't, connect since the update last night. Is b.net down for anyone else?

There was an update? Patch 11? Where are the patch notes?

 

[Corran Horn]

There was an update? Patch 11? Where are the patch notes?

Its down atm. Who knows about a patch until its there. Was down for some time last night too. Some thinking maybe the facebook integration.

 

[webrunner]

The Arbiter was a pretty cheap unit in SC1, so I can see why they decided to introduce a nerfed version in SC2. I really just wish they would give us a unique Mothership-type unit though akin to the original design

I mean, when they first announced it, it had only completely unique new Starcraft 2 abilities that showed of, this is why you want starcraft 2, it can do huge energy beams and bullet-time fields and suck things into black holes.


Now three of it's abilities are gone, and the last one is nerfed to no longer deal damage. So you end up with one big slow fragile expensive arbiter.

Give it back Planet Cracker at least, so it makes sense that you only have one.

 

[Zen]

http://forums.battle.net/thread.html?topicId=24702391825&sid=5000

So..buff to hellions? Woot

We are going to make some changes in the next patch to make Hellions a little easier to use.
We are going to be making some changes in the next patch to Phoenix to make him a little easier to use and a little more powerful.
We are going to make some changes in future patches to see if we can get some more abilities on the Overseer.
We are going to try to make him [Thor] slightly less frustrating to use in a future patch.
Infestor: His Infested Terran ability is not that useful when compared to Fungal Growth, so he really only has two useful abilities right now. We are going to try another ability in that slot in future patches.

Hmmm, how will this, hypothetically, effect the complaint of the game being Tier 1/1.5 biased? (Granted the original StarCraft certainly allowed for mass Tier 1/1.5 to be a viable strategy).

cool thx for the video. it makes good points however i think the general rule of thumb is never make an ultra-only army... they are best as support units. i wonder if they will be buffed...

For sure, some of his examples of how they suck were clearly how they were intended to suck. It looks like it's their speed and size that make them awkward versus relatively mall units and they're slower than in StarCraft/BW, don't they have any sort of specific upgrades in SCII?

 

[ZealousD]

I think with hellions, they should try reducing the time between it stopping and firing. Maybe not giving it the same king of moving shot as the vulture, but just giving it more mobility while in combat. It's a very fast unit but it's like it runs into a puddle of molasses when it stops.

Phoenixes right now just have a usefulness problem. They're really only good against Zerg and even then you still need like 5 of them before they start to do any real damage. I think that maybe that they should turn Graviton beam into a normal ability and not a channeled. A reduction in build time would be nice too.

 

[Meeru]

No new patch :[

 

[webrunner]

Hmmm, how will this, hypothetically, effect the complaint of the game being Tier 1/1.5 biased? (Granted the original StarCraft certainly allowed for mass Tier 1/1.5 to be a viable strategy).



For sure, some of his examples of how they suck were clearly how they were intended to suck. It looks like it's their speed and size that make them awkward versus relatively mall units and they're slower than in StarCraft/BW, don't they have any sort of specific upgrades in SCII?

The problem is twofold:

1- they're a tier-3 counter to tier 1 melee, and pretty much nothing else
2- they're tier 3 so except in prolong games you're not going be able to make them except at the expense of making the actual backbone of your army.

What they need to be is far, far harder to kill. Super damage sponges, blocking focus fire clicks, etc. Make 'em tanks.

Then, make them easier to get along with some other part of your army. At least the Mothership you get access to 'free' if you're teching up protoss air.

 

[Mudkips]

but they die very easily, take awhile to charge up. If they lost their power with switching targets they would be totally useless as they would never reach full power.

Void Rays would kind of suck if this was implemented. Void Rays can still be countered easily by large groups of units that can attack air. A group of 30 marines or so with Stimpack can obliterate Void Rays.

A decent group of powered up void rays destroys anything you throw at it.
Once they get powered up, you're fucked. They can pump them out fairly quickly, too.

5 void rays on 5 different targets should be more effective than all 5 focus firing. The ramping damage mechanic is obviously intended to get people to do this, but people just rely on focus firing single targets (because they don't lose the charge when switching, this is more effective), so they think removing the charge between targets would make the void ray useless.

Losing the charge when switching targets would make attacking a single target with a single void ray the most efficient use of your void rays. You would still have the option to focus fire if you need to target specific buildings / units (turrets or battlecruisers, for example) to take them down faster. It effectively gives you two ways to use the void ray - attacking big bad units / critical structures would be better with focus firing, while attacking smaller, massed units or assaulting structures would be better with multi-targeting.

Obviously, damage output and health/armor would be adjustable for balance, but the key mechanic of the damage ramp should always favor splitting targets to effectively exploit that DPS increase.

It requires more thinking, but actually LESS micro. Thus, I feel it is a good idea for an RTS and one that will not be implemented properly in SC2.

I hope they just make the Thor 1/2 the size he is now and give him a slight move speed increase.

And wtf Infested Terran is AWESOME, especially with the recent changes.
You can get a few of those fuckers near the edge of an enemy's base and lob TONS of Infested Terrans at them at no real cost to you.

They're great for harassing, and they're the perfect compliment to attacking with just a couple of Brood Lords. Their other abilities are great too, and are good for a full on battle in the open or frontal assaults on a base.

 

[AceBandage]

Well, I'm downloading some kind of patch right now, but it doesn't seem like Patch 11.

 

[Corran Horn]

Neural Parasite researchable now...lol

-Phoenix's move a lot more fluently and you can perform a "moving shot" more easily
-Neural parasite now requires an research upgrade 150/150 and takes 110 seconds to research
-250mm strike cannons on Thor now requires research 150/150 and takes 110 seconds
- Seems like once accelerated, the mother ship moves faster
- Sentry damaged reduced from 8 to 6
- Neural parasite now 100 energy up from 50
- Battlecruiser build time lowered from 110 to 90
- Hellion range increased
- Graviton beam is a crap load easier to use. Now, if a unit is running away, when you click to pick up the enemy unit the phoenix will chase it and pick it up instead of previously where the phoenix would catch up to the unit and not cast it.
- Battle cruisers increase in movement speed (unconfirmed)
- Thor damage reduced to 30 damage per hit down from 45 (and also do less damage to non-light air)
- Colossus damage reduced from 21 (or whatever it was) to 15
- High templar movement speed increased
- Thor attack rate increased
- Carrier movement speed increased
- Colossus can no longer kite units........... it literally has to stand still and shoot to do the damage
- Corruptor's corruption costs 100 gas and is now used on units: it increases damage done to them by 20% for 30 seconds.
- Neural parasite now works on air units
- Dark templar movement speed increased (questionable but they seem SUPER fast)
- Broodlords reduced in armor from 2 to 1, range increased from 9 to 9.5, HP from 275 to 225
- Broodlords reduced in armor from 2 to 1, range increased from 9 to 9.5, HP from 275 to 225
- Hunter Seeker Missile available in the tech lab no longer requiring fusion core
- Colossus attack speed increased (unconfirmed)
- Hellions attack faster once they stop moving

- Marauders are NOT massive
- Voidrays unchanged

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=123900

 

[Milabrega]

A new one: - Dark templar movement speed increased (questionable but they seem SUPER fast)

 

[Kagami]

client just got patched to v0.13.0.15250, but there aren't any patch notes
(patch 10 (larva cancel fix) was v0.12.0.15133)

 

[The Lamonster]

Why are we nerfing Thors when the issue is weak Tier 3 units...

 

[Corran Horn]

Some people saying Marauder is now a massive unit....lol if true

 

[Cheeto]

Am I crazy or are they trying to push people into massing only tier 1 - 1.5 units...

 

[Ferrio]

Wow Collossi got the big nerf bat and HT's speed increase. Guess that's blizz's way to say "USE TEMPLARS!".

 

[Yaweee]

The infestor changes seem justified. Previously, they were the only caster unit that came with every spell already researched, but now they're more in line with the other caster units.

Sentry nerf to damage is also justified, they were previously overpowered due to being damage comparble to the other Protoss ground units and an outstanding caster.

Nice changes to BCs, Carriers, Motherships, HTs, and DTs movement speed. They should all see a bit more use now.

The colossus changes are a bit a iffy, imo, as that was easily the best Protoss answer to MMM.

I like the new Corruptor ability. Kind of reminiscent of ye olde Devourers.

Am I crazy or are they trying to push people into massing only tier 1 - 1.5 units...

Previously, yes, but this patch seems like a giant swing in the other direction. Later units are now faster, and aren't just fodder to Infestors.

It's hard to say what the Thor change is going to do. They might deal more net damage, but they won't pop hydras in a single shot.

 

[Zen]

Why are we nerfing Thors when the issue is weak Tier 3 units...

Well they do attack faster now so at some point the overall DPS would be greater.

Unconfirmed:
Ultralisks's damage greatly increased
Ultralisks base speed increased

 

[Yoshichan]

I JUST asked how to win against Hellion rush with Protoss and now they're FASTER and EASIER TO USE?

Yayyyyyyy!!!!!!!!

Wat?

 

[Ferrio]

Does Psi Storm hurt friendly units? It did in SC1 didn't it?

 

[ahoyhoy]

Am I crazy or are they trying to push people into massing only tier 1 - 1.5 units...

That's what I'm getting here, to. Fuck Blizzard. Tier 1 should be getting a nerf not a buff.

 

[LaneDS]

Does Psi Storm hurt friendly units? It did in SC1 didn't it?

It did and it still does.

I JUST asked how to win against Hellion rush with Protoss and now they're FASTER and EASIER TO USE?

Yayyyyyyy!!!!!!!!

Wat?

Have you tried just building near your ramp and using a zealot or two on hold position to keep them from rushing you? Have one or two zealots holding, blocking entry into your base with stalkers and sentries being built behind them to attack anything that tries to rush.

 

[Ferrio]

It did and it still does.

Lovely.....

Damn colossi were just fine...... like MMM balls weren't bad enough.

 

[Yaweee]

I really don't see what changes here are encouraging people to mass more T1/1.5. There's very few outright nerfs to higher tier units, and the Thor lower damage/higher speed is actually a buff against low HP units, as less overkill damage is wasted, and it also makes them less of a direct counter against Hydralisks, a T2 unit that they were previously perfect against. As long as it can pop marines and zerglings in a single shot, it is likely a buff.

Like, almost all of the listed abilities are buffs to higher tier units. Unambiguous buffs to Hellions, Phoenixes, HT, DT, Carriers, BCs, Siege Tanks, Ultralisks, and Motherships, and a fairly significant nerf to sentries.


- Colossus damage reduced from 21 to 15
-Colossus attack speed is indeed faster, from 2.2 to 1.65.

So roughly equal DPS, slightly more % reduction due to armor, but less overkill damage due to the higher, smaller shots.

 

[Corran Horn]

Lovely.....

Damn colossi were just fine...... like MMM balls weren't bad enough.

If what im reading that the attack speed is increased. It shouldnt be too bad, just needs to micro it better. Perhaps better for drops.

 

[The Lamonster]

Why would they not give us patch notes this time?

 

[MeshuggahMan]

- High templar movement speed increased

Hmmm well maybe I'll actually try to use them now. That was the huge issue that was preventing me from using them.

 

[Meeru]

http://us.starcraft2.com/launcher/patch-notes.htm

keep f5ing

edit: and they're up.

 

[Ferrio]

http://us.starcraft2.com/launcher/patch-notes.htm

keep f5ing

Hrm no mention of HT/DT speed buff.

 

[Milabrega]

#

* Archon
o The splash radius has been increased from 0.8 to 1.
o Splash damage now originates from the center of the target, rather than the impact location near the unit in order to maintain more reliable splash damage.


A minor Archon buff, That's more like it!

 

[Corran Horn]

#

* Archon
o The splash radius has been increased from 0.8 to 1.
o Splash damage now originates from the center of the target, rather than the impact location near the unit in order to maintain more reliable splash damage.


A minor Archon buff, That's more like it!

Ill still never use them, but thats mostly because Im late to the game on getting HTs :lol

 

[Zen]

Well Thors do 1/3 less damage but attack 1/3 faster. They can't one shot Hydras anymore, but can still one shot Zerglings.

* Thor
# Ground damage decreased from 45 to 30.
# Ground rate of fire improved from 1.93 to 1.28.

 

[webrunner]

# Phoenix

* Can now attack while moving.

Out of curiosity, how many SC2 units have this ability?

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

Terran nerfed again.... bullshit!!

 

[The Lamonster]

Can someone please post the full patch notes from Blizzard?

I'm at work right now so their site is blocked.

 

[Milabrega]

For Lamonster and whoever else:


Balance Changes

* TERRAN
o Battlecruiser
+ The build time has been decreased from 110 to 90.
o Fusion Core
+ The build time has been decreased from 80 to 65.
o Hellion
+ The range has been increased from 5 to 6.
o Planetary Fortress
+ The splash damage now originates from the center of the target, rather than the impact location near the unit in order to maintain more reliable splash damage.
o Raven
+ Seeker Missile range has been decreased from 9 to 6.
+ Seeker Missile splash radius has been decreased from 2.4 to 2.
+ Seeker Missile upgrade no longer requires Fusion Core.
o Siege Tank
+ Life increased from 150 to 160.
+ Siege Mode splash damage now originates from the center of the target, rather than the impact location near the unit in order to maintain more reliable splash damage.
o Thor
+ Ground damage decreased from 45 to 30.
+ Ground rate of fire improved from 1.93 to 1.28.
+ Air damage changed from 8 (+4 Light) to 6 (+6 Light).
+ 250mm Strike Cannons are now an upgrade at the Factory Tech Lab.
+ 250mm Strike Cannons research now costs 150/150 and 110 seconds.
+ 250mm Strike Cannons energy cost increased from 100 to 150.
+ Anti-Air splash damage now originates from the center of the target, rather than the impact location near the unit in order to maintain more reliable splash damage.

* PROTOSS
o Archon
+ The splash radius has been increased from 0.8 to 1.
+ Splash damage now originates from the center of the target, rather than the impact location near the unit in order to maintain more reliable splash damage.
o Colossus
+ The damage has been decreased from 20 to 15.
+ The rate of fire has been improved from 2.2 to 1.65.
o Phoenix
+ Can now attack while moving.
o Sentry
+ The damage has been decreased from 8 to 6.

* ZERG
o Brood Lord
+ Life has been decreased from 275 to 225.
+ Armor has been decreased from 2 to 1.
o Corruptor
+ Corruptor damage changed from 12 (+10 Massive) to 14 (+6 Massive).
+ Corruptor speed increased from 2.75 to 2.9531
+ Corruption ability redesigned:
# Single target.
# Increases damage taken by 20%.
# Lasts 30 seconds.
# Costs 100 energy.
# Range 6.
# Cannot target structures.
o Infestor
+ Neural Parasite is now an upgrade at the Infestation Pit.
+ Neural Parasite research costs 150/150 and 110 seconds.
+ Neural Parasite can now target Air units.
+ Neural Parasite energy cost increased from 50 to 100.
o Spine Crawler
+ The root time has been increased from 6 to 12.
o Spore Crawler
+ The root time has been increased from 6 to 12.
o Ultralisk
+ Damage has been increased from 18 to 25.

Hotkey Changes

* General
o In order to resolve a conflict with building multiple Forges with the Shift Key we have made the following changes:
+ Changed Center Camera from Shift+F to Ctrl+F.
* Standard
o To prevent the accidental research of Ventral Sacs when trying to train an Overlord with no Larva available, the hotkey has been changed from V to E.
o View Own Health Bars functionality added to the Backslash key
* Standard for Lefties
o Due to a conflict with research Banshee Cloak, research Seeker Missile has been changed from L to K.
o To correct a conflict with the Attack command on Planetary Fortress, train SCV has been changed from K to J.
o In order to prevent the accidental training of Zerglings when using the Select Larva hotkey,train Zergling has been changed from L to J.
o To prevent the accidental training of a Queen, train Ultralisk has been changed from U to T.
o To prevent the accidental research of Pneumatized Carapace when trying to train a corruptor with no Larva available, research Pneumatized Carapace has been changed from P to C.
o View All Status Bars has been changed from Q to the Alt key.
o View own Status Bars functionality has been added to the Q key.
* Grid for Lefties
o Attack Move and all other buttons in the 0,4 position should now function correctly.
o View Own Status Bars functionality added to Q.
o View Enemy Status Bars moved to W.
o View Ally Status Bars moved to E.
* Classic
o Changed build Nydus Canal from P to N.
o Changed Place Nydus Canal ability from P to N.
o Terran Infantry Weapon researches have been changed from E to W.
o Terran Vehicle Weapon researches have been changed from E to W.
o Train Thor hotkey has been changed from O to G.
o Train Viking hotkey has been changed from Y to W.
o View Own Status Bars functionality has been added to the Backslash key.

Icon Position Changes

* To put all race gas extractors in the same icon position, the positions of the Supply Depot/Refinery and Pylon/Assimilator have been swapped.
* In order to make transforming multiple Gateways easier for players using Grid key sets, Transform to Gateway has been moved to a separate icon position (2,1).

Bug Fixes

* Corrected an issue that was causing the Polish language client to crash when receiving the "player is no longer being revealed” message.
* Corrected incorrect battle.net links on multiple language clients pages.
* Corrected an issue where the Zealot was using an US English voice over in the Korean language client.
* Corrected an issue where a player is unable to build any structures that require pylon power when their protoss ally leaves.
* Units can no longer be healed or repaired while in transports.
* Corrected an issue where the Creep Tumor targeting circle was visible to opponents through Fog of War.
* Corrected an issue in which selecting a Starport under construction and a completed Starport would display the select builder command in the Viking slot.
* Corrected the Broodling weapon icon.

 

[Yaweee]

Well Thors do 1/3 less damage but attack 1/3 faster. They can't one shot Hydras anymore, but can still one shot Zerglings.

* Thor
# Ground damage decreased from 45 to 30.
# Ground rate of fire improved from 1.93 to 1.28.

Also not that they do 2x that damage (simultaneous shots), so they're better against marines than they were before (less wasted overkill damage).