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StarCraft 2 Beta |OT| (Beta Now Reopen, GL HF)
- Thread starter Scrow
- Start date
Des0lar said:
Attack move near a building under construction will make your probe/scv/drone automatically attack the enemy scv when it is in range, by my understanding.
Unless the player is stealing both of your gas geysers, don't pull of probes to destroy it. You can wait for your first Zealots/zerglings/Marines/Marauders to kill it.
Just make sure you don't let the player steal both. As soon as he does anything to your first one, immediately start construction on the other one regardless of your economic situation. It is vital, imo.
Prophet Steve
Member
Strange, suddenly got a beta invite. Probably will get massacred since I never played Starcraft before, but I'll take my chances.
A group of 4~5 Marauders after a Reaper or two of a 10 rax will show up well before any Void Ray finishes, and you have to be careful not to get so many sentries that it would gas-block your first VR.Cru Jones said:
Early marauders are so damn effective because they hard counter both Zealots and Stalkers, and the high gas cost of sentries causes them to delay the actual Protoss counters to MMM.
Unless it is a map with a huge ramp, I could easily hold off anything you throw at me (MM wise) with a couple sentries long enough to create voids. If I didn't feel like countering with voids, I could hold you off long enough to get immortals which would decimate your forces. Not to mention just being able to cut your force in half with a force field. I could simply just allow only a couple of your units into my base at a time.
I love when Terran uses these "fool proof" tactics against me. Again, the only time this strat would have an advantage against a toss is if it is a large ramp, it can also be difficult when there are multiple entrances, but can still be achieved by anyone who has decent maco.
Edit: Anyone who has a decent build will easily be able to stop a reaper rush. It is easy to have the first unit as a stalker and then the next two as sentries. I always get a stalker before my opponent reaches my base with their reaper.
It has been more than a month since someone has been able to pull off a successful reaper rush against me (as soon as a Protoss player is in a PvT they know to get a stalker ASAP). I have usually scouted before the cybernetics core is done so I know what I am up against even against a random.
I love when Terran uses these "fool proof" tactics against me. Again, the only time this strat would have an advantage against a toss is if it is a large ramp, it can also be difficult when there are multiple entrances, but can still be achieved by anyone who has decent maco.
Edit: Anyone who has a decent build will easily be able to stop a reaper rush. It is easy to have the first unit as a stalker and then the next two as sentries. I always get a stalker before my opponent reaches my base with their reaper.
It has been more than a month since someone has been able to pull off a successful reaper rush against me (as soon as a Protoss player is in a PvT they know to get a stalker ASAP). I have usually scouted before the cybernetics core is done so I know what I am up against even against a random.
Cru Jones said:
Really? I have yet to see a replay of someone getting the stalker out before the reaper makes it to their base. On some maps that have far apart starting positions I could see you being able to get the stalker out. But maps like desert oasis, the path the reaper takes is soo short and the Terran places the barracks as close as possible... tough to get a stalker out that fast.
I am not saying it's impossible. I just haven't seen it yet.
aristotle said:Ditto. I have SC2 downloaded but I haven't even loaded it up yet. This should be fun
Blizzard put out some official battle reports that you can watch to get some ideas of how units are used. Some units have changed over time, but in general they still are the same.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8waUab_1pg
For example the 'obolisk' is no longer in the game.
mbmonk said:
It is important to build your first pylon, gateway, and cybernetics core directly beside your nexus. Those few seconds you save from having to build close to your choke is the difference maker (also, your stalker will appear right beside mineral line when built.
Cru Jones said:
Out of curiosity, what league are you in, and what BO is your opponent using? I thought it was widely acknowledged that somebody actually rushing Reaper (and not just pumping one out first from a Tech Lab Barracks before he starts going Marauders) would show up well before the first Stalker comes. The balance debate is whether the sacrifice the Terran had to make to produce an early Reaper is enough to justify the number of probes that he has killed, and who's economy is set back further by the tactic.
Of course he'll stop making Reapers after the first one, but the subsequent Marauders counter both Stalkers and Zealots cost-for-cost and unit-for-unit (excepting many, many zealots, which the Terran won't be able to Micro against.
There's no "fool proof" tactics in the game, but I think you're underestimating how deadly an early Reaper and Marauder can be.
Cru Jones said:
I'm still new at this game, so correct me if I'm wrong. so after you warp a pylon at 9, you scout the T base. if the T is building or built a refinery early and instead of building a marine he builds a tech lab, most likely he's doing a reaper rush. In that case what do you do?
Do you throw a cybernetics core after your first gateway and get stalkers as fast as possible? or is that much a given?
ChronicleX
Banned
Cru Jones said:
On this note I would like to add that in a PvZ you can double gateway either side of your ore in some maps with a pylon in the small orb gap to protect your probes from rush without having to get cannons. (depends on the map though)
Sarye said:
No, Terrans generally just don't get Marines early against Toss. A Tech Lab could indicate either a Marauder or a Reaper.
You have to assume it is going to be a Reaper, though, as not having a Stalker on the way will be disastrous.
ChronicleX said:
That is a very good strategy that is less prone to Banelings than the usual choke point build. A single cannon in in the mineral line after that will do wonder.
Sarye said:
I'd look it up on the Team Liquid forums. There's a bit of wiggle room, but, yeah, basically. Zealots are really crappy against Terrans (even with the speed boost) so you'll want that Cybernetics Core ASAP. Both Marauders and Reapers can infinitely kite basic zealots for a kill without taking damage.
ChronicleX
Banned
Sarye said:
Vs Terrans I tend to send in 1 of my starting probes straight away to get near there base before they wall themselfs in (depending on the map) and cannon rush. If it fails (probe gets spotted) then you can always cannon your own base to protect from reapers. This only works on the very short maps though vs Terrans but always seems to work vs Protoss/Zerg. Sometimes construction/scouting speed is more important than eco.
Yaweee said:
Thanks for the help. I know it'll depend on the situation, but does that mean I should focus on stalkers with a few sentries for defense and focus on getting immortals quickly if fighting against MM. Should I also attempt to get Colossus as fast as possible?
I mostly play Ts and I admit, I MM pretty heavily as it's the simplest to do so it would be nice to know what to do against that if I'm playing P
EDIT: what if you move one probe at the start to scout early and build two assim if possible in their base.
That would be pretty hilarious but most likely won't actually work
Sarye said:
Most Protoss Tier 2/2.5 units are potential counters to MM.
Immortals deal pooploads of damage to Marauders (20 base, +30 against Armored) and only take half damage while their shields are up.
Collosi completely roast marines (40+ damage per to multiple targets, against the Marines 45 or 60 max HP).
Psi Storm does enough damage to pop marines and seriously damage Marauders, but it rarely gets used due to how gas expensive and time consuming that tech branch is. The 600/600 resources you're spending to cast that first psi-storm can be a crippling sacrifice.
Void Rays are super powerful if they have no vikings or a low mix of marines into the MM ball.
Phoenixes are advanced, but you can quickly snipe the Medivacs and anti-grav marines or stray marauders.
Dark Templar one-shot Marines, but Terrans have 4 ways to spot cloaked units.
Assimilator blocking their gas actually can work decently well, but it is only a temporary delay.
NIN90 said:
Hydralisks period (tons of damage output, no bonus damage from Marauders)
Mutalisks for harass or picking of marines if they don't have many (useful if you had many roaches earlier, which would push them into getting more Marauders than Marines)
Upgraded Zerglings (particularly speed). Maybe not useful against huge balls with Medivac support, but great against smaller, early balls.
Infestors for their AoE damage/stun spell.
Many many spine crawlers.
NIN90 said:
NIN, check out Psy's replays. He a good zerg player that does awesome commentary explaining the strats. Just check out any of his ZvT videos
http://www.youtube.com/user/PsyStarcraft
The Lamonster
Member
I got another Invite a Friend key. Looks like Blizzard is wanting to ramp up the beta! Maybe in preparation for 3v3 and 4v4?
Yoshichan
And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
Quick!
How do I win against Hellion rush as a protoss? Zealots obviously looses. I can't get lots of Sentries out in time due to 100 gas per unit... and I can't seem to get stalkers fast enough!
How do I win against Hellion rush as a protoss? Zealots obviously looses. I can't get lots of Sentries out in time due to 100 gas per unit... and I can't seem to get stalkers fast enough!
TurtleSnatcher
Member
Yea I got 2 more invites :lolThe Lamonster said:
The Lamonster
Member
Stalkers counter HellionsYoshichan said:
zoukka said:
Why? A wall at the choke leading into the natural backed up by an army is pretty nice from my experience. They deal good damage with nice range and can be instantly healed for a sizable chunk by a queen. Placing them in a row with no space between then perpendicular to the path the MMM ball is coming in from will also keep them from auto-targeting on a specific one.
Yaweee said:
He can always manually focus fire, you know. Your spines are toast in front of the Marrauders. The best bet would probably be Zerglings+Infestors+Mutas. Hold back Mutas first, two volley blasts of fungal will deal 70 damage, softening the Marrauders and killing all Marines. Go in with the mutas at the same time for the killing blow. If close to the base, attack. And burrow the Infestors to the mineral line. If you can fungal it two times, all his workers will be dead.
Of course this takes way more skill than building a MMM ball and hitting stim when the time comes but it can completely own it.
At least, that's the current strat. Problem is lings dying fast at first but thanks to the damn Rauders, Roches are out of the question. If you have armor +1 at the time of confrontation it helps a little bit.
thestopsign
Member
MrDenny said:
There is a novice mode you can opt into when you start playing, or you can just play against the AI, which really doesn't help at all.
http://forums.battle.net/thread.html?topicId=24702391825&sid=5000
So..buff to hellions? Woot
We are going to make some changes in the next patch to make Hellions a little easier to use.
We are going to be making some changes in the next patch to Phoenix to make him a little easier to use and a little more powerful.
We are going to make some changes in future patches to see if we can get some more abilities on the Overseer.
We are going to try to make him [Thor] slightly less frustrating to use in a future patch.
Infestor: His Infested Terran ability is not that useful when compared to Fungal Growth, so he really only has two useful abilities right now. We are going to try another ability in that slot in future patches.
So..buff to hellions? Woot
We are going to make some changes in the next patch to make Hellions a little easier to use.
We are going to be making some changes in the next patch to Phoenix to make him a little easier to use and a little more powerful.
We are going to make some changes in future patches to see if we can get some more abilities on the Overseer.
We are going to try to make him [Thor] slightly less frustrating to use in a future patch.
Infestor: His Infested Terran ability is not that useful when compared to Fungal Growth, so he really only has two useful abilities right now. We are going to try another ability in that slot in future patches.
The entire Void Ray mechanic is screwy. I'd prefer to see a more constant rise and decay time for the powerup, and an immediate loss (but not necessary a complete reset) when switching targets.
Like, 1 second per "charge", 5 charges max, -2 charges per second if you aren't firing on anything, and -2 or -3 charges when you switch targets.
Like, 1 second per "charge", 5 charges max, -2 charges per second if you aren't firing on anything, and -2 or -3 charges when you switch targets.
ChronicleX
Banned
LaneDS said:
but they die very easily, take awhile to charge up. If they lost their power with switching targets they would be totally useless as they would never reach full power.