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StarCraft 2 Beta |OT| (Beta Now Reopen, GL HF)

Blizzard is not on a schedule. If they find that they need more time to beta test a unit they decided to add late in the beta, they're not gonna just throw their hands up and say "Oh, but we PROMISED them that the beta would only be 3 months!"
 
autobzooty said:
Blizzard is not on a schedule. If they find that they need more time to beta test a unit they decided to add late in the beta, they're not gonna just throw their hands up and say "Oh, but we PROMISED them that the beta would only be 3 months!"

i dont really think so. They've proven how good they are about post-retail patching, so I think after beta irons out a few superior builds theres a good chance they'll just release it and deal with any additional bumps after release.

It's more the SP that would warrant a delay, and I think they're more than likely done or just about done that by now.
 
Scourge always exerted way too much map control due to the numbers that could be produced quickly in response to the spotting of air tech. Yes, there is still an air component in all three matches (Corsairs, Science Vessels, Mutalisks) but scourge really limited the dedication one could put into air and, more importantly, where you could use those air units, since they were so cheap, mobile, and spammable.

If scourge had SC2's AI no one would bother trying to build a flying unit against Zerg, which would suck.
 

Scrow

Still Tagged Accordingly
autobzooty said:
Yeah, I think if Scourge made it back into the game it would help a lot. Plus I remember a lot of epic scourge moments in pro games. scourge vs. science vessels becomes scourge vs. medivac!
heh, if that happened it would just be another step in SC2 multi being an exact replica of the original SC multi.
 
alright well i gave up for now, everyone's busy matchmaking, lemme know if anyone changes their minds or needs a fourth for some gaf 2v2.
 

mbmonk

Member
autobzooty said:
Blizzard is not on a schedule. If they find that they need more time to beta test a unit they decided to add late in the beta, they're not gonna just throw their hands up and say "Oh, but we PROMISED them that the beta would only be 3 months!"


I just can't forsee them intentionally holding back units that they planned to put in the game anyway. That still doesn't address the logic of why leave a unit out of the early beta if you are just going to have to balance test it with the rest of the units anyway.

About the 3 month time frame, I was only quoting Blizzard themselves on it. I wasn't say they couldn't extend the beta past 3 months. There were two seperate issues in my post. One was if they would add back scourge. The second issue I address was people in the beta should enjoy it and relish it for the next 3 months. I wasn't saying that Blizzard has to stop the beta in 3 months.

But I am glad you managed to get overly dramatic about it.
 
mbmonk said:
I just can't forsee them intentionally holding back units that they planned to put in the game anyway. That still doesn't address the logic of why leave a unit out of the early beta if you are just going to have to balance test it with the rest of the units anyway.

About the 3 month time frame, I was only quoting Blizzard themselves on it. I wasn't say they couldn't extend the beta past 3 months. There were two seperate issues in my post. One was if they would add back scourge. The second issue I address was people in the beta should enjoy it and relish it for the next 3 months. I wasn't saying that Blizzard has to stop the beta in 3 months.

But I am glad you managed to get overly dramatic about it.


i'm saying it's not impossible that they'll extend the beta to continue testing units that were added unexpectedly. but i think their internal balancing team is providing more useful insight than they're getting from the beta.

I don't think they left any units out of the beta that they fully intend to put in the final game later. But I'm sure they have units planned out that they are considering putting in depending on how the beta goes. Hell, they had medics from SC1 in the game a long time ago, didn't they? But they took them out for whatever balancing reasons. If they have scourge planned and are finding out from the beta that Zerg needs more AA, they might put em in.

And I'm not getting dramatic <_<
 

mbmonk

Member
autobzooty said:
i'm saying it's not impossible that they'll extend the beta to continue testing units that were added unexpectedly. but i think their internal balancing team is providing more useful insight than they're getting from the beta.

I fully understand what you are saying. You are saying that if they want or need to add a unit to the game that they could extend the beta to balance test it. That is a seperate issue than my question which is why would you intentionally exclude a unit, that you plan to put in the final product, from the early phase of the beta when eventually you would have to balance it with all the units anyway.


Has there been an example of Blizzard doing this in past betas? I don't have a good enough memory about War3 or the previous games.
 

aznpxdd

Member
Finally finished my 10 placement matches (had it since day one, been slacking!). Got placed into the platinum league, is this the toughest league?
 
I fully understand what you are saying. You are saying that if they want or need to add a unit to the game that they could extend the beta to balance test it. That is a seperate issue than my question which is why would you intentionally exclude a unit, that you plan to put in the final product, from the early phase of the beta when eventually you would have to balance it with all the units anyway.


Has there been an example of Blizzard doing this in past betas? I don't have a good enough memory about War3 or the previous games.

I doubt Blizzard is holding back units that they plan to add to the game before the end of the beta, but they probably have several units "ready to go" that they could throw in to fill discovered gaps in the game's balance.
 
Finally finished my 10 placement matches (had it since day one, been slacking!). Got placed into the platinum league, is this the toughest league?

Yeah, Platinum is the highest league. What was your win/loss ratio for your ten placement matches?
 

Campster

Do you like my tight white sweater? STOP STARING
aznpxdd said:
Finally finished my 10 placement matches (had it since day one, been slacking!). Got placed into the platinum league, is this the toughest league?

It's certainly up there, since I'm in copper and I am horrible.
 
arguably they already added a unit, infested terrans. Unfortunately this translates to a spell by the infestor so it doesnt exactly guarantee new units during beta.

I'd be really happy if lurkers somehow found a place in beta, but I don't think they will.

Goliaths would be nice too, even valkyries because terran needs more AA options than thor/viking. Dedicated AA would be nice, as it is vikings need to be less powerful AA because of their transformers spell.
 

aznpxdd

Member
vultureparade said:
Yeah, Platinum is the highest league. What was your win/loss ratio for your ten placement matches?

8-2. In my wins, I triple most of the my opponents scores. :D

The 2 losses were due to dumb allies on Twilight Fortress. I hate that map, its a turtle/camp fest.
 
So, watching a few replays 1v1 - it seems as though TvP it is impossible for T to win.

If the toss player sends a probe and builds pylons near the T's base and builds gateways there the game is over. He can get out a zealot right when the terran player gets out a marine using chrono boost and its game over from there. I guess technically the terran player can send all his scvs to destroy that first pylon but that gives the toss player a huge economy advantage. Seems pretty dumb.
 
Freakinchair said:
So, watching a few replays 1v1 - it seems as though TvP it is impossible for T to win.

If the toss player sends a probe and builds pylons near the T's base and builds gateways there the game is over. He can get out a zealot right when the terran player gets out a marine using chrono boost and its game over from there. I guess technically the terran player can send all his scvs to destroy that first pylon but that gives the toss player a huge economy advantage. Seems pretty dumb.

they kinda fixed it, downed chrono and upped gateway build time.
 

Kodiak

Not an asshole.
autobzooty said:
I have a feeling that's going to get real annoying real fast.

They should make the odds of him saying that be really low or something

unfortunately, I doubt this will ever be patched : P
 
Ice Monkey said:
they kinda fixed it, downed chrono and upped gateway build time.

Nah, the ones I saw were post patch. Maybe theres some better build order for terrans to prevent this (early barracks maybe). I'd actually have to play the game to find out :lol
 

aznpxdd

Member
It shouldn't be that hard. Kite the Z until you get a 2nd marine and just use 3-4 of your scv and micro.

This happened in SC1 all the time. Early early zealot rush is a bitch to deal with.
 

Kodiak

Not an asshole.
Freakinchair said:
Nah, the ones I saw were post patch. Maybe theres some better build order for terrans to prevent this (early barracks maybe). I'd actually have to play the game to find out :lol


I've had a few toss try this on me and I've always been able to get rines on the pylon before any zealots show up at my back door, and so far I've not seen it exploited very well.


I imagine Blizzard likes the tactic and wants to keep it in the game.
 

khuezy

Member
Am I screwed? I can only play w/ shaders on low or else it lags. Is the final product going to be like this? Cuz that sucks.
 
Freakinchair said:
Nah, the ones I saw were post patch. Maybe theres some better build order for terrans to prevent this (early barracks maybe). I'd actually have to play the game to find out :lol

It all depends on the scout, actually.

One gate opening from the Protoss-he is going for fast Immortals. In this case you can either FE w/ Planetary Fortress, sieged tanks, and bunkered marines and then transition into a mech build for a longer game or you can go for 3 barracks (2 reactor, 1 tech lab) into starport w/ reactor for colossus snipes and medivacs (this is a really cool build).

Two gate (or more openings) means proxy rush, this is really common because it's really somewhat abusive. When I scout this I go three rax in base, 1 tech lab, 2 reactor. I get a quick +1 weapons and combat shields and push the protoss at that point-he almost certainly won't have a colossus and as long as you keep your marauders up front the amount of zealot/stalker trashing you can do is insane.

I did that latter build against a four gate(!), one base all-in earlier and totally demolished my opponent. The key was ensuring that A) his scouting probe didn't sneak in a in-base pylong or something (follow it with an SCV) and B) not dropping the two barracks or ebay until after the scouting probe was dead. He was totally in the dark and pretty much had to commit to his rush.

Proxy gating with just a pylon while protecting your gateways in base without any build time penalty (my understanding how it works is that its slower because you can't chrono it or something) is ridiculous on paper, I'll give it that.

Edit: Moving warp gate from cybernetics core to twilight council would still allow for proxying of troops without it being so ridiculously early in the game (which is where it's sort of a problem), while still being relevant to gateway units. Then move stalker blink back to the cybernetics core like the old goon range.
 

LowParry

Member
derder said:
AI crack released...

I've been reading up on this. They don't have it fully cracked from what I understand. Just a dead AI so far or some sort of update to where it won't do anything till you attack before the AI does something. It seems they're getting much closer.
 
So seriously, right now my biggets gripe with sc2 is how the buildings don't really stand out to me as they did in classic. A lot of things kinda just looks really similar, ehhh and freaking zerg on top of creep is almost impossible to differentiate colors, extremely irritating.
 
Orangepeel said:
So seriously, right now my biggets gripe with sc2 is how the buildings don't really stand out to me as they did in classic. A lot of things kinda just looks really similar, ehhh and freaking zerg on top of creep is almost impossible to differentiate colors, extremely irritating.

This is really obnoxious when playing against Zerg, but we'll get used to it. A little more variance in the color palette would definitely help though.
 

snack

Member
CcrooK said:
I've been reading up on this. They don't have it fully cracked from what I understand. Just a dead AI so far or some sort of update to where it won't do anything till you attack before the AI does something. It seems they're getting much closer.

Where can I get more information on the AI stuff?
 
CcrooK said:
I've been reading up on this. They don't have it fully cracked from what I understand. Just a dead AI so far or some sort of update to where it won't do anything till you attack before the AI does something. It seems they're getting much closer.
check ya pe ems

snack said:
Where can I get more information on the AI stuff?
I'm pretty sure we can't link directly, but you too check your messages
 
Orangepeel said:
So seriously, right now my biggets gripe with sc2 is how the buildings don't really stand out to me as they did in classic. A lot of things kinda just looks really similar, ehhh and freaking zerg on top of creep is almost impossible to differentiate colors, extremely irritating.

I have this problem too, but I'd imagine it'll disappear the more time spent with the game. Initially it was hard to differentiate units from each other, especially zerg on darker maps, like Twilight Fortress for instance. But now it's pretty easy for me, and I imagine buildings will become easier to spot as well. Right now I constantly confuse my nydus network with my evolution chamber lol
 
PhoenixDark said:
I have this problem too, but I'd imagine it'll disappear the more time spent with the game. Initially it was hard to differentiate units from each other, especially zerg on darker maps, like Twilight Fortress for instance. But now it's pretty easy for me, and I imagine buildings will become easier to spot as well. Right now I constantly confuse my nydus network with my evolution chamber lol
I think some of it tends to be the size of the buildings in correlation to the HD resolutions that the game is in now as opposed to classic. If that makes any sense, before we used to be zoomed in more, but now the camera's pulled back and things appear to be smaller because of it.
 

evlcookie

but ever so delicious
snack said:
Time to look for good AI!

I wouldn't be surprised by this time next week there would be a single application that allowed you to pick a map and ai difficulty then load SC2 with those settings. It sounds like they have basic AI difficulty implemented right now, although i could be reading wrong.
 

ZealousD

Makes world leading predictions like "The sun will rise tomorrow"
evlcookie said:
I wouldn't be surprised by this time next week there would be a single application that allowed you to pick a map and ai difficulty then load SC2 with those settings. It sounds like they have basic AI difficulty implemented right now, although i could be reading wrong.

Well they can't really add anything that's not available in the normal client, right? If they want to have the higher AI levels, wouldn't that need to be in the beta code? So far the only AI level available in the beta is very easy.
 

Wedge7

Member
ZealousD said:
Well they can't really add anything that's not available in the normal client, right? If they want to have the higher AI levels, wouldn't that need to be in the beta code? So far the only AI level available in the beta is very easy.

They've made some pretty big strides in the AI in a pretty short amount of time. It was originally the sandbox style, then basic brain dead AI that was super stupid, IE, sent out little groups of 3 units, but now, its actually pretty decent. Protoss rushed me with a force of 4-5 zealots and almost killed me, albeit it was one of my first games.
 

ZealousD

Makes world leading predictions like "The sun will rise tomorrow"
Wedge7 said:
They've made some pretty big strides in the AI in a pretty short amount of time. It was originally the sandbox style, then basic brain dead AI that was super stupid, IE, sent out little groups of 3 units, but now, its actually pretty decent. Protoss rushed me with a force of 4-5 zealots and almost killed me, albeit it was one of my first games.

Wait, they already have harder AIs in the crack now?
 
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