Support NeoGAF

[autobzooty]

thors are a good general unit to hit both ground and AA, but if in a pinch, really in any game you should have 3000 extra minerals at a certain point so just mass marines with stim and combat shield. medivacs too to keep the majority of them alive.

i always feel weird when i look at the unit counter list and see that the counter for a certain unit is a Thor. especially earlier units...

aren't thors pretty damn expensive?

 

[nilbog21]

yo does anyone kno if there is superhard Ai out there? :/

 

[SuperAndroid17]

yo does anyone kno if there is superhard Ai out there? :/

theres a cheating one right now if thats anything :lol

 

[Ice Monkey]

i always feel weird when i look at the unit counter list and see that the counter for a certain unit is a Thor. especially earlier units...

aren't thors pretty damn expensive?

definitely. What I'd do though is try and spam marines since like I said minerals should never be a problem, and try to get some thors out too.

stimmed marines are the main counter to mutas, i just really mentioned the thors since basically for terran AA you have marines, thors and vikings. Vikings are definitely going to get a buff in the future as right now they dont stand a chance against enough mutas unless you really spam them.

One thing I'd do if you really want to deal with something like mutas, is start to get used to shift clicking. It's the perfect form of micro in sc2 and beats out any sort of manual micro if you ask me. select a group of vikings or marines and, especially from far away, send em in while holding shift and right click muta after muta. what they'll do is start hitting the first, but the key is that as soon as one marines decides he can kill a muta with one attack, the others start targeting the next one instead of waiting to hit the first and THEN hitting the second.

If you're fighting someone who was a pro at SC and is just that much more skilled than you, he either utilizes this himself or just microing like this wont even win you the match anyway, but its a great way to get a leg up on someone who isnt particularly great but has a huge muta army advantage.

 

[Vitet]

I'd like to see a list of Terran hotkeys as well. Plz and thanks.

Sorry I didn't read your post before:

SVC is V / VCE
Marine is S / Soldado
MaraudEr E / pErsecutor
ghost F / Fantasma
Erebion E
Tank T / Tanque
tHor H
Viking V / Vikingo
Medevac M
Crow C / Cuervo
Atropos A / Átropos
Battlecruiser B / crucero de Batalla

 

[Ice Monkey]

one thing im curious about, anyone tried ghost shift clicking snipe against mutas? that seems like it would do a crapload of damage if it works. Maybe I'll try it out in compstomp.

 

[Zzoram]

thors are a good general unit to hit both ground and AA, but if in a pinch, really in any game you should have 3000 extra minerals at a certain point so just mass marines with stim and combat shield. medivacs too to keep the majority of them alive.

If you do save up 3000 minerals and you're not maxed out at 200/200 population, you're playing the game wrong. Saving up 3000 minerals is one of the worst things you can do in Starcraft. It means that 3000 minerals worth of units aren't in play, and if your enemy has a similar economy and spent his money well, his army would be much larger than yours and once he realizes this, he'll attack and crush you.

 

[GregLombardi]

If you do save up 3000 minerals and you're not maxed out at 200/200 population, you're playing the game wrong. Saving up 3000 minerals is one of the worst things you can do in Starcraft. It means that 3000 minerals worth of units aren't in play, and if your enemy has a similar economy and spent his money well, his army would be much larger than yours and once he realizes this, he'll attack and crush you.

This.

Though keep in mind casuals and hardcores do tend to play the game completely differently, and casuals are muuuuuch slower.

 

[Zzoram]

This.

Though keep in mind casuals and hardcores do tend to play the game completely differently, and casuals are muuuuuch slower.

Casual players can improve dramatically with only a few hours of coaching. The number 1 problem that casual players have is not spending their money. Whether it's laying down more gateways, buying upgrades, or making more units, as long as you make sure your money is doing something active, your game will improve.

Casual players tend to only focus on battles, over-microing at times, forgetting entirely about base management until they've won or lost a fight. That is why they are so succeptible to harassment, a little harassment throws them completely off their game and they end up piling up money.

 

[DarkoMaledictus]

This.

Though keep in mind casuals and hardcores do tend to play the game completely differently, and casuals are muuuuuch slower.

I'm one of those tech freak players... just love taking my time and hate rushing, then again I play just with friends and we play in the same manner!

 

[Zzoram]

I'm one of those tech freak players... just love taking my time and hate rushing, then again I play just with friends and we play in the same manner!

People don't usually rush for the sake of rushing. They do timing attacks just as they finish an advantageous upgrade (eg. Protoss finishes +1 attack before Zerg gets +1 defense, Zealots can now kill Zerglings in 2 hits instead of 3, creating a short window of opportunity where the Protoss army just got 50% stronger and it'd be stupid not to attack), or they attack if they see you are teching or expanding and don't have adequate defense (because you spent money on other stuff instead of units).

Good players also usually take a new base at the same time that they're attacking, because they know the enemy will be distracted by the fight and then try to rebuild a defense immediately afterward, creating a safe window of time to secure a new expansion.

Timing windows are one of the most important elements of Starcraft that people don't seem to get.

 

[Ice Monkey]

Casual players can improve dramatically with only a few hours of coaching. The number 1 problem that casual players have is not spending their money. Whether it's laying down more gateways, buying upgrades, or making more units, as long as you make sure your money is doing something active, your game will improve.

Casual players tend to only focus on battles, over-microing at times, forgetting entirely about base management until they've won or lost a fight. That is why they are so succeptible to harassment, a little harassment throws them completely off their game and they end up piling up money.

ummmm, I was exaggerating when I said always 3000, my point was that gas is the bottleneck, not minerals.

Are you telling me whenever you play you never have extra minerals because you are waiting for gas? Do you make exps and dont bother making SCVs for the minerals, you just harvest gas?

There are games where I have 4 exps and 2 SCVs to every crystal in each base, and I inevitably end up with more minerals than I can handle because of gas shortage. Usually all my rax and facs are producing something other than marines or hellions, and those are the only units that can use up minerals enough to keep me from having excess.

With zerg it's even worse because the only units you can build with only using gas are lings, and larva are relatively few and far between when compared to just queueing up 8 marines at once in a rax with reactor.

The only time I even get a chance to continually keep my resources at zero are when I'm being harassed and lose a good amount of SCVs to an exsp harass.

Oh, and I'm a casual player but I tend to focus much more heavily on macro instead of micro, micro is by far my weak spot, so I'd alter your statement that casual players are simply worse at multitasking rather than micro vs macro.

 

[watervengeance]

The only time you should ever have extra resources is if you're waiting to tech to something or expand. If you can't spend that resource, then you don't have enough buildings to produce units from.

 

[watervengeance]

ummmm, I was exaggerating when I said always 3000, my point was that gas is the bottleneck, not minerals.

Are you telling me whenever you play you never have extra minerals because you are waiting for gas? Do you make exps and dont bother making SCVs for the minerals, you just harvest gas?

There are games where I have 4 exps and 2 SCVs to every crystal in each base, and I inevitably end up with more minerals than I can handle because of gas shortage. Usually all my rax and facs are producing something other than marines or hellions, and those are the only units that can use up minerals enough to keep me from having excess.

With zerg it's even worse because the only units you can build with only using gas are lings, and larva are relatively few and far between when compared to just queueing up 8 marines at once in a rax with reactor.

Oh, and I'm a casual player but I tend to focus much more heavily on macro instead of micro, micro is by far my weak spot, so I'd alter your statement that casual players are simply worse at multitasking rather than micro vs macro.

Dude, if you have 4 expansions, you are more than likely to win the game unless you don't have an army. :lol

 

[Zzoram]

ummmm, I was exaggerating when I said always 3000, my point was that gas is the bottleneck, not minerals.

Are you telling me whenever you play you never have extra minerals because you are waiting for gas? Do you make exps and dont bother making SCVs for the minerals, you just harvest gas?

There are games where I have 4 exps and 2 SCVs to every crystal in each base, and I inevitably end up with more minerals than I can handle because of gas shortage. Usually all my rax and facs are producing something other than marines or hellions, and those are the only units that can use up minerals enough to keep me from having excess.

With zerg it's even worse because the only units you can build with only using gas are lings, and larva are relatively few and far between when compared to just queueing up 8 marines at once in a rax with reactor.

Oh, and I'm a casual player but I tend to focus much more heavily on macro instead of micro, micro is by far my weak spot, so I'd alter your statement that casual players are simply worse at multitasking rather than micro vs macro.

If you have to focus on only 1 area, macro is more important than micro. I know that Starcraft 2 is even more gas starved than Starcraft, so I understand what you mean now. In Starcraft, Zerg players would regularly create new bases that primarily mined gas, only mining the minerals several minutes later. I would imagine that this is something that should happen in Starcraft 2 at least as often, if not moreso. As for piling up minerals, its often better to produce mineral-only units than to just save the money. There is more of an advantage to saving gas than there is to saving minerals since mineral income flows more freely.

 

[Ice Monkey]

The only time you should ever have extra resources is if you're waiting to tech to something or expand. If you can't spend that resource, then you don't have enough buildings to produce units from.

OK I still don't get this, but I guess I'm just not as pro as you guys.

So even if I have 4 rax with tech labs and 3 or more facs all producing units I still need to build 3 more rax with reactors for marines, huh? Alright well I see it if that's what you're saying but I'll also mention this is well beyond any sort of macro I'll be able to handle anytime soon. I'm barely keeping up with 4 rax, 2-3 fac if going thors and 2 more starports, now ay in hell I'm adding 2 or 3 more rax to their own hotkey just for extra marines, I guess I'll just have to keep on having extra minerals if thats what I need to do.

 

[Ice Monkey]

If you have to focus on only 1 area, macro is more important than micro. I know that Starcraft 2 is even more gas starved than Starcraft, so I understand what you mean now. In Starcraft, Zerg players would regularly create new bases that primarily mined gas, only mining the minerals several minutes later. I would imagine that this is something that should happen in Starcraft 2 at least as often, if not moreso. As for piling up minerals, its often better to produce mineral-only units than to just save the money. There is more of an advantage to saving gas than there is to saving minerals since mineral income flows more freely.

Yeah, it is hard for me to just have meaningless EXPs for gas because of the way too small maps IMHO, (in SC1 did they play on really small maps like this or do 1v1s on stuff like 8 player maps?)

I understand just using the minerals for units, I've never really thoguht to myself "let me save this money for later" I'm just already at max macro I can handle having multiples of each producing building either slow because they have a tech lab attached or busy producing thors and marauders/marines alternating or BCs or banshees mixed with vikings. I can't imagine at least with my macro skill building 2 or 3 more barracks or something just because I have mineral excess, the game almost becomes not fun at that point when I start trying to go over or really push the type of macro I can handle.

 

[Zzoram]

OK I still don't get this, but I guess I'm just not as pro as you guys.

So even if I have 4 rax with tech labs and 3 or more facs all producing units I still need to build 3 more rax with reactors for marines, huh? Alright well I see it if that's what you're saying but I'll also mention this is well beyond any sort of macro I'll be able to handle anytime soon. I'm barely keeping up with 4 rax, 2-3 fac if going thors and 2 more starports, now ay in hell I'm adding 2 or 3 more rax to their own hotkey just for extra marines, I guess I'll just have to keep on having extra minerals if thats what I need to do.

Multiple Building Select (MBS) is supposed to make handling 8 rax way easier than it was in Broodwar. If you can hotkey all your rax to 1 hotkey (or maybe 2 hotkeys, 1 for all the reactors and 1 for all the tech labs) then it doesn't matter how many you have, just hit 5+ddd, 6+aaaaaaaaaa. The old way, you had to jump back to base, individually click every rax then press M. The new way is a lot faster and easier.

Macro gets easier with practice, and you get faster at it.

Heck, even if you don't/can't use more rax at the moment, just building more of them is better than nothing. That way, if you suffer a massive defeat and lose all your men, you can rebuild them faster because you have more rax.

 

[autobzooty]

definitely. What I'd do though is try and spam marines since like I said minerals should never be a problem, and try to get some thors out too.

stimmed marines are the main counter to mutas, i just really mentioned the thors since basically for terran AA you have marines, thors and vikings. Vikings are definitely going to get a buff in the future as right now they dont stand a chance against enough mutas unless you really spam them.

One thing I'd do if you really want to deal with something like mutas, is start to get used to shift clicking. It's the perfect form of micro in sc2 and beats out any sort of manual micro if you ask me. select a group of vikings or marines and, especially from far away, send em in while holding shift and right click muta after muta. what they'll do is start hitting the first, but the key is that as soon as one marines decides he can kill a muta with one attack, the others start targeting the next one instead of waiting to hit the first and THEN hitting the second.

If you're fighting someone who was a pro at SC and is just that much more skilled than you, he either utilizes this himself or just microing like this wont even win you the match anyway, but its a great way to get a leg up on someone who isnt particularly great but has a huge muta army advantage.

it's funny you should mention marines as anti-air, because I always hear that marines are such useful units, even in SC1. but whenever i dedicated myself to a medic/marine army, i would get crushed. maybe i'm playing it wrong or something, and i admit i dont know what the difference between an armored unit and a light unit is, but still. they've never helped me as much as people say that they should. i have a lot to learn i guess.

haven't played SC2 yet though.

 

[watervengeance]

OK I still don't get this, but I guess I'm just not as pro as you guys.

So even if I have 4 rax with tech labs and 3 or more facs all producing units I still need to build 3 more rax with reactors for marines, huh? Alright well I see it if that's what you're saying but I'll also mention this is well beyond any sort of macro I'll be able to handle anytime soon. I'm barely keeping up with 4 rax, 2-3 fac if going thors and 2 more starports, now ay in hell I'm adding 2 or 3 more rax to their own hotkey just for extra marines, I guess I'll just have to keep on having extra minerals if thats what I need to do.

My previous post was assuming you don't have all the barracks, factories and starports. So that was a bit of a misunderstanding there.

The question is, if you do indeed have all these buildings and tech available, did you ultimately win the game? If so, then what you're doing is fine. If you lost, then your opponent is probably a lot better than you.

What you should do is consider whether making more buildings would help you at all. One advantage is that you'll have more fodder units for your opponent to attack. It helps a lot if you have a bunch of marines in front of your main army, because then your opponent has to choose between attacking your marines or your stronger units.

Advanced players (not saying I'm one of them) like to explode on Gateways and Barracks to pump out a massive amount of Zealots and Marines precisely because they're so cheap and expendable, while they wait for their gas to pile up.

 

[Sloegr]

it's funny you should mention marines as anti-air, because I always hear that marines are such useful units, even in SC1. but whenever i dedicated myself to a medic/marine army, i would get crushed. maybe i'm playing it wrong or something, and i admit i dont know what the difference between an armored unit and a light unit is, but still. they've never helped me as much as people say that they should. i have a lot to learn i guess.

haven't played SC2 yet though.

In which matchup? What units were you having trouble fighting against?

Edit: Not that I'm a SC guru (I suck). Just curious.

 

[watervengeance]

it's funny you should mention marines as anti-air, because I always hear that marines are such useful units, even in SC1. but whenever i dedicated myself to a medic/marine army, i would get crushed. maybe i'm playing it wrong or something, and i admit i dont know what the difference between an armored unit and a light unit is, but still. they've never helped me as much as people say that they should. i have a lot to learn i guess.

haven't played SC2 yet though.

Marine-Medic is a pretty hard build to use. So much micro involved...

 

[GregLombardi]

Casual players can improve dramatically with only a few hours of coaching. The number 1 problem that casual players have is not spending their money. Whether it's laying down more gateways, buying upgrades, or making more units, as long as you make sure your money is doing something active, your game will improve.

Casual players tend to only focus on battles, over-microing at times, forgetting entirely about base management until they've won or lost a fight. That is why they are so succeptible to harassment, a little harassment throws them completely off their game and they end up piling up money.

Yeah that's an interesting point.

But some people will never get past that level because they're disinterested in making the game more about winning than about fun. I personally like both styles. I VERY much like huge ass crazy death battles after everyone has built up tons of units, but I also love strategic and vicious wins.

 

[Ice Monkey]

it's funny you should mention marines as anti-air, because I always hear that marines are such useful units, even in SC1. but whenever i dedicated myself to a medic/marine army, i would get crushed. maybe i'm playing it wrong or something, and i admit i dont know what the difference between an armored unit and a light unit is, but still. they've never helped me as much as people say that they should. i have a lot to learn i guess.

haven't played SC2 yet though.

The main thing is that marines are a very good counter to mutas, and I read that they were in sc1 as well. Thing is you have to upgrade them, at least with combat shield and stim, and especially if you don't have stim the mutas can fly away easily. The medivacs are always a good help, but mainly because stim is so necessary.

I suppose this couldve mainly been because I always have excess mins, but if you manage to kill enough mutas with just marines, you get to hit their gas very well because mutas cost a whopping 100 gas, even helps immensely if you lose a lot of marines.

Multiple Building Select (MBS) is supposed to make handling 8 rax way easier than it was in Broodwar. If you can hotkey all your rax to 1 hotkey (or maybe 2 hotkeys, 1 for all the reactors and 1 for all the tech labs) then it doesn't matter how many you have, just hit 5+ddd, 6+aaaaaaaaaa. The old way, you had to jump back to base, individually click every rax then press M. The new way is a lot faster and easier.

Macro gets easier with practice, and you get faster at it.

Heck, even if you don't/can't use more rax at the moment, just building more of them is better than nothing. That way, if you suffer a massive defeat and lose all your men, you can rebuild them faster because you have more rax.

Yeah I mean i definitely see how building more rax/fac can be a big help, I have been trying to use mbs a lot, but it gets complicated really fast with how much the game almost seems to bug out if you select both tech lab rax and reactor rax at the same time, it doesnt seem to smartly be able to assign build orders to all of them. Blizz should fix that but separating them in hotkeys is always an easy workaround.

My previous post was assuming you don't have all the barracks, factories and starports. So that was a bit of a misunderstanding there.

The question is, if you do indeed have all these buildings and tech available, did you ultimately win the game? If so, then what you're doing is fine. If you lost, then your opponent is probably a lot better than you.

What you should do is consider whether making more buildings would help you at all. One advantage is that you'll have more fodder units for your opponent to attack. It helps a lot if you have a bunch of marines in front of your main army, because then your opponent has to choose between attacking your marines or your stronger units.

Advanced players (not saying I'm one of them) like to explode on Gateways and Barracks to pump out a massive amount of Zealots and Marines precisely because they're so cheap and expendable, while they wait for their gas to pile up.

Well, I win some and lose some but I think my losses have mainly come down to bad reactions and also not knowing when to retreat. The surprise attacks you can easily pull off in this game always get me too, even when I'm better than that most the time. Like muta harass, something I should always be aware of, or even just m&m drop into my minerals always manages to work even if I try and help myself, even if they dont use too many units.

It's obviously not gonna help my 1 on 1 skills or even 2v2 arranged but I like playing ffa, and my biggest problem, which is really just a problem with ffa in general, is being randomly double teamed in ffa. It's just unfortunate when two of the other players separately attack you, happens to me a lot more frequently than you'd expect, and I'm not pro enough at other modes to just be able to whoop ass regardless of how many people attack me.

Meh, I like the game a lot so I dont care too much. But also thanks for the marine/zealot explosion suggestion, I hadn't really thought of it like that, It's a damn good idea to just produce them mainly as a fodder tactic.

 

[GregLombardi]

The main thing is that marines are a very good counter to mutas, and I read that they were in sc1 as well. Thing is you have to upgrade them, at least with combat shield and stim, and especially if you don't have stim the mutas can fly away easily. The medivacs are always a good help, but mainly because stim is so necessary.

I suppose this couldve mainly been because I always have excess mins, but if you manage to kill enough mutas with just marines, you get to hit their gas very well because mutas cost a whopping 100 gas, even helps immensely if you lose a lot of marines.



Yeah I mean i definitely see how building more rax/fac can be a big help, I have been trying to use mbs a lot, but it gets complicated really fast with how much the game almost seems to bug out if you select both tech lab rax and reactor rax at the same time, it doesnt seem to smartly be able to assign build orders to all of them. Blizz should fix that but separating them in hotkeys is always an easy workaround.



Well, I win some and lose some but I think my losses have mainly come down to bad reactions and also not knowing when to retreat. The surprise attacks you can easily pull off in this game always get me too, even when I'm better than that most the time. Like muta harass, something I should always be aware of, or even just m&m drop into my minerals always manages to work even if I try and help myself, even if they dont use too many units.

Just as a tip, I ALWAYS have at least 1 bunker and turret right in my minerals, filled with marines. It stops the harrassing usually.

 

[DarkoMaledictus]

People don't usually rush for the sake of rushing. They do timing attacks just as they finish an advantageous upgrade (eg. Protoss finishes +1 attack before Zerg gets +1 defense, Zealots can now kill Zerglings in 2 hits instead of 3, creating a short window of opportunity where the Protoss army just got 50% stronger and it'd be stupid not to attack), or they attack if they see you are teching or expanding and don't have adequate defense (because you spent money on other stuff instead of units).

Good players also usually take a new base at the same time that they're attacking, because they know the enemy will be distracted by the fight and then try to rebuild a defense immediately afterward, creating a safe window of time to secure a new expansion.

Timing windows are one of the most important elements of Starcraft that people don't seem to get.

Ofcourse they dont, its because its strategically beneficial! But I do not like to play like that, just love constructing bases and planning long winded strategies... just my style of play, wouldnt win online I know, but thats how I love to play so I do play with friends with the same love for teching!

 

[Ice Monkey]

Yeah that's an interesting point.

But some people will never get past that level because they're disinterested in making the game more about winning than about fun. I personally like both styles. I VERY much like huge ass crazy death battles after everyone has built up tons of units, but I also love strategic and vicious wins.

the vicious wins can seem almost unreal at times though. Like for example, I'd really like to know how to counter an early pylon/cannon rush. The guy didn't even build a gateway or anything, just came in and build a pylon and two cannons, then more pylons and more cannons slowly going to the mineral line. What in God's name do you do against that if you cant destroy the first pylon in time? Is it just a terrible strategy because he must be back at his base not doing ANYTHING else other than harvesting because he's spending all his minerals on cannons and pylons?

 

[Fragamemnon]

Marine-Medic is a pretty hard build to use. So much micro involved...

After playing some more (up to about 65 games or so between AM and customs w/ a friend) and watching those terrific CowGoMoo replays, medic/marine is pretty much the meat and potatoes in every Terran matchup. The MULE macro mechanic (which swamps you in minerals and always leaves you needing more gas) means that you need something to act as a mineral sink, and your choices are the Hellion (which fades in usefulness as the game progresses because, unlike the vulture, it doesn't have mines and barely has more HP than a combat shielded marine) or the Marine.

Terran factory units (something I was very comfortable with in BW) are now more like Protoss robo bay unit. They are speciality units to complement your bio force, not an outright replacement.

For example, Hellions are good at drop harassment of expansions or when massed in groups of 10-12 and thrown on the ground against expansions (kind of like vultures). It's something to throw extra minerals at. Tanks are good as support for your TvT push with medic/marauder/marine or against Zergs going hard roach/hydra, but they are no longer the definitive Terran unit.

I haven't found microing marines to be that hard. I keep marines on one hotkey and Marauders on another hotkey-this is really important against Zerg since you want your marauders just sightly up front tanking against Banelings. Medivacs on another hotkey (they REALLY need to allow these to heal while moving, there's a major usability issue with them flying around, you have to spam stop on them to get them to heal in a fight in a timely manner).

When playing SCBW during a three tank, one vessel push in TvZ I would use like five or six hotkeys during the push just for units. It's much easier now to do that sort of thing in SC2.

 

[Fragamemnon]

the vicious wins can seem almost unreal at times though. Like for example, I'd really like to know how to counter an early pylon/cannon rush. The guy didn't even build a gateway or anything, just came in and build a pylon and two cannons, then more pylons and more cannons slowly going to the mineral line. What in God's name do you do against that if you cant destroy the first pylon in time? Is it just a terrible strategy because he must be back at his base not doing ANYTHING else other than harvesting because he's spending all his minerals on cannons and pylons?

One rule of TvP still applies in SC2-if you're playing Protoss, expect the most ridiculous and absuive bullshit possible (because they can by and large do it and get away with it since you take so long to get going), and be paranoid in scouting for it. This applies even more to lower skill players-I've played a lot of D+ iccup in BW and on a two player map you basically learn REAL FAST where all the places for proxy gates and knowing exactly what to look for when scouting a Protoss tech build to see if they were even possibly going fast DTs. Same goes for SC2, they will try to hide a pylon in base to get past your wall, I've dealt with this in at least half my games on 2 player maps in TvP.

In your specific case, marauders do a good job against buildings and are a decent counter to that early on if you have a rax w/ tech lab going.

 

[Ice Monkey]

Ofcourse they dont, its because its strategically beneficial! But I do not like to play like that, just love constructing bases and planning long winded strategies... just my style of play, wouldnt win online I know, but thats how I love to play so I do play with friends with the same love for teching!

I hear ya man, I'm exactly the same way. I don't enjoy the game as much when I'm trying to scout really well or prepare as good a defense as possible, worrying about my build orders and stuff.

I'm both thankful and pissed off that right now you can't do too much other than play matchmaking unless you have similarly skilled friends you can play customs with. On the one hand I'm learning how to play sc2 in a much more competitive way, but the other hand I can't enjoy it like the way I used to, especially with how low the numbers of people playing are you're inevitably gonna get matched up with much more skilled players.

 

[The Lamonster]

Sorry I didn't read your post before:

SVC is V / VCE
Marine is S / Soldado
MaraudEr E / pErsecutor
ghost F / Fantasma
Erebion E
Tank T / Tanque
tHor H
Viking V / Vikingo
Medevac M
Crow C / Cuervo
Atropos A / Átropos
Battlecruiser B / crucero de Batalla

Awesome, thanks!

 

[Hazaro]

http://www.teamliquid.net/video/userstream.php?user=Response

Reponse is playing CowsgoMoo live right now.

 

[KaYotiX]

I hear ya man, I'm exactly the same way. I don't enjoy the game as much when I'm trying to scout really well or prepare as good a defense as possible, worrying about my build orders and stuff.

I'm both thankful and pissed off that right now you can't do too much other than play matchmaking unless you have similarly skilled friends you can play customs with. On the one hand I'm learning how to play sc2 in a much more competitive way, but the other hand I can't enjoy it like the way I used to, especially with how low the numbers of people playing are you're inevitably gonna get matched up with much more skilled players.

Agree....i wish we could at least play a different AI so i can work on strats. I love the game but when i get matched agaisnt a guy who basically destroys me in 3 mins, its kinda a kick in the nuts.

 

[Fragamemnon]

Agree....i wish we could at least play a different AI so i can work on strats. I love the game but when i get matched agaisnt a guy who basically destroys me in 3 mins, its kinda a kick in the nuts.

One of the hard truths about learning an RTS is that if you are going to lose over and over for a good while, and then as you get better you'll go on discouraging losing streaks that will make you throw things around your computer desk. No other video game multiplayer is demanding and cutthroat as 1v1 RTS multiplayer (close second is fighting games, the main difference there is that set/match length are a LOT longer in an RTS).

 

[Dosia]

http://www.teamliquid.net/video/userstream.php?user=Response

Reponse is playing CowsgoMoo live right now.

Lol. he got whooped.

 

[MarkMan]

Random but. I need another SCII Beta Key for work reference. If anyone hooks me up, I'll hook you up.

<3

 

[Zero Tolerance]

One of the hard truths about learning an RTS is that if you are going to lose over and over for a good while, and then as you get better you'll go on discouraging losing streaks that will make you throw things around your computer desk. No other video game multiplayer is demanding and cutthroat as 1v1 RTS multiplayer (close second is fighting games, the main difference there is that set/match length are a LOT longer in an RTS).

This. And there is nothing that says YOU A LIE than those obscene win/loss records where the wins are two, three, four times the losses, especially on accounts that are not several months or years old. Can you say, "disconnect"? If not, I know you can say "Smurf"!

The only RTS I ever got good enough at to be competitive was AoE2: The Conquerors. Nobody (I ever played) could stop my Mongol scout rush. All the rest, I was "functionally good," which means I was as good as I could possibly be playing 3-4 hours a day. Don't have time for replays, I have a life, and all that. I never got good at WCIII/TFT because I couldn't handle the hero system. I never figured out when to creep, when to rush, etc. I'm a C&C guy myself. Harvester/econ harass until I starve my opponents to victoly.

 

[Fragamemnon]

Lol. he got whooped.

His replay pack is full of top Protoss rolling over and dying badly to EMP+stimmed +2 weapons/combat shield marine/marauder/medivac. If they got colossus to counter (which he spots with the magic floating factory scout), he just drops a reactor on his starport and gets eight vikings and sends them in for the snipe (since they will have WAY less stalkers in this case-note how he attacked earlier after he got his expansion set up and intentionally whittled down the stalker count).

Response did well to go for high temps, but if the high temps don't feedback the ghosts in time, it's going to be a total rout. Note also that there is a hard timing push aspect to this-if he waits too long then Protoss will get enough storm to massacre his army.

 

[Fragamemnon]

This. And there is nothing that says YOU A LIE than those obscene win/loss records where the wins are two, three, four times the losses, especially on accounts that are not several months or years old. Can you say, "disconnect"? If not, I know you can say "Smurf"!

SC2 has a one key, one account model to mitigate smurfing. It upset some people but I agree with Blizzard that beating up on much lower-skill players is not the way to keep people playing.

 

[autobzooty]

In which matchup? What units were you having trouble fighting against?

Edit: Not that I'm a SC guru (I suck). Just curious.

most recently it was zealots and dragoons, i believe.

 

[celebi23]

Random but. I need another SCII Beta Key for work reference. If anyone hooks me up, I'll hook you up.

<3

A 2nd SCII Beta Key? :lol Really? :lol Some of us still haven't received one :lol *Cough*me*Cough* :lol

 

[LocoMrPollock]

The cracked beta is out with AI support. You can't play against people but it's nice to check things out and see how the game runs and such.

 

[KaYotiX]

One of the hard truths about learning an RTS is that if you are going to lose over and over for a good while, and then as you get better you'll go on discouraging losing streaks that will make you throw things around your computer desk. No other video game multiplayer is demanding and cutthroat as 1v1 RTS multiplayer (close second is fighting games, the main difference there is that set/match length are a LOT longer in an RTS).

i realize that and i am getting better and i cant wait till its live where the Ladders MEAN something and im playing people more my skill lvl.

 

[Apath]

SC2 has a one key, one account model to mitigate smurfing. It upset some people but I agree with Blizzard that beating up on much lower-skill players is not the way to keep people playing.

At first this is kinda iffy, but I know down the line I'll eventually end up with two - three keys.

 

[Tenks]

For the sake of my account are we allowed to talk about playing the beta with AI crack?

 

[autobzooty]

For the sake of my account are we allowed to talk about playing the beta with AI crack?

I really wish a mod would come in and just say whether or not it's okay. everyone is tip-toeing around and no one even knows if we have to or not.

 

[Tenks]

I'll error on the side of safety and deny even knowing there is an AI crack, nor know even what a crack is. Why is Blizzard distributing drugs is my official stance on the crack.

 

[Anksta]

I havent received a beta key yet. But I had a question for those that have been playing the beta and have extensively played Company Of Heroes / Dawn Of War 2.

How does it feel to play more "classic" RTS rather than the current generation of Tactics based RTSs?

One could argue that even Warcraft 3 was quite Tactics based (although no where to the extent that COH/DOW2 are). In that respect SC2 seems like a step backwards of having no attachment to units or their abilities. I'm not necessarily saying thats a bad thing (because I havent tried it yet), but for those that have... is it a bad thing?

 

[LocoMrPollock]

For the sake of my account are we allowed to talk about playing the beta with AI crack?

It's basically a demo. I think we're alright, so long as you don't mention where it can be found or link to it.

 

[LowParry]

I havent received a beta key yet. But I had a question for those that have been playing the beta and have extensively played Company Of Heroes / Dawn Of War 2.

How does it feel to play more "classic" RTS rather than the current generation of Tactics based RTSs?

One could argue that even Warcraft 3 was quite Tactics based (although no where to the extent that COH/DOW2 are). In that respect SC2 seems like a step backwards of having no attachment to units or their abilities. I'm not necessarily saying thats a bad thing (because I havent tried it yet), but for those that have... is it a bad thing?

Between SC2 and say, Dawn of War 2, your priorities are very much different. SC2 you're focused on manning units to gather supplies while in DoWII, you're out with units on the map capping area's for resources. Units themselves have things you upgrade on however in SC2, it's more micro managment with everything. DoWII simplifies that management within units instead of building structures that are expansion buildings you create that you manage with upgrades. I like both games for what they offer.

SC2 you're able to mass produce a huge army of 50 - 100 units to fight to the bitter end while in DoWII, you can have an army of 15 units and reign hell. Granted, DoWII units are experienced gained so they become stronger the longer they survive. Both games offer the best of both RTS worlds which I love.