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//: StarCraft II: Heart of the Swarm |OT| Like Riding a Bike
- Thread starter Corran Horn
- Start date
-COOLIO-
The Everyman
PROTOSS IS HAAAAAAAAAAAARD.
ok are there any subtle differences i can notice with my first scout that could tell me if the toss is going for:
blink stalker?
dark templar?
oracle harass?
void rays?
either way all you see is double gas and a chrono'd out stalker. are the gas timings different?
ok are there any subtle differences i can notice with my first scout that could tell me if the toss is going for:
blink stalker?
dark templar?
oracle harass?
void rays?
either way all you see is double gas and a chrono'd out stalker. are the gas timings different?
If you're meching:
Get an early engineering bay for a turret anyway, get it almost immediately if you spot 2 gas, get one at your wall and one at your mineral line. I personally siege expand so outside of the air based options none of the other things do any damage to me if I get a bunker just behind my rax at my wall so nothing below can shoot it and a tank behind to punish I'm perfectly safe.
Basically if you're going mech blink all ins really shouldn't do anything if you're going for tanks as long as you position well and all the others are just shut down by a turret or two.
What you want to do is if you see 2 gas and a third pylon or even not, just leave his base and go check his natural at 5 minutes (hide your SCV somewhere) and see if he's expanded, if he hasn't just turtle up and get more units before you expand/build a third CC.
If you get contained on 1 base by some immortal all in or something and he expands late after it, get a reactor starport and go up to about 3 medivacs and then just go drop his natural with hellbats/tanks, you want about 2 tanks and 8 hellions in the 3 dropships as by that point you should have transformation servos. They can either lose their natural or come back and defend as it'll take a big army to take out what you drop and if he moves his whole army back then just make sure to move out instantly and take your nat/set up position in your nat. If he tries to all in you again by just running up your ramp he'll die to your tank count.
I can try go look for replays of me holding like pretty much every all in in different ways if you want, I'm definately a lot better at defending them now than I was 2 weeks ago or so.
-COOLIO-
The Everyman
ok youve conviced me, im going mech in tvp.
edit: actually i think i figured out my problem. ive been going marine, ghost, hellbat, medivac, viking but i think rauder, hellbat, medivac, viking ghost would clean up a lot better. that makes a hell of a lot more sense.
edit edit: the video i based this is off of was way more rauder heavy, i think im just to using mass marines from the WOL days but zealots are chewed up by the hellbats.
edit edit edit: it's so obvious. WHAT HAVE I BEEN DOING!?
Thanks for the scouting advice guys. Scouting is on the top of my list of things to get better at, just so I know if there's an early attacking coming or not. When does the nexus go down in a typical ffe? So I can say if he hasn't expanded by X time then I need to build more defense.
No roaches? What build order do you use?
Yoshichan
And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
Can't even play this fucking game nowadays. After launcher finally decides to launch, I can't connect to any game whatsoever.
Isn't Battle.net great?
Isn't Battle.net great?
I use the build in the Zerg Overview thread on TL
Here's a replay of my last ZvP (too long ago I need to play more :<)
http://drop.sc/316517
I didn't play perfectly (didn't get the queens like I should have) and should have got Ultralisk/Vipers way quicker but it's a good overview of how it should work at our level I think.
EscapingJail
Member
Definitely a personal problem.
Apollo just started doing some HotS replays, but he hasn't done a guide, yet.
I started watching Day 9 last night and HE OWNS.
I'm 3-1 since my tutoring session with EscapingJail.
Really fun TvT I just had. It is a Bio vs Mech showcase!
http://drop.sc/316531
I felt I did really well with lots of dropping and splitting up my armies etc...
Critique if you want, I haven't tried pure bio/mine v T yet, thinking that this style might work well for me.
http://drop.sc/316531
I felt I did really well with lots of dropping and splitting up my armies etc...
Critique if you want, I haven't tried pure bio/mine v T yet, thinking that this style might work well for me.
Yoshichan
And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
Yup
That was a pretty good game. It was great how you saw his forge and expansion go down and everything, but I feel like I never see anything when I go to scout! What do you think when he's main is walled off? does that read as he's gearing up for an attack? I guess I should park my drone at his expo and move an overlord in then? Maybe check for gas gysers then? If he's walled off hasn't expanded and has two gas gysers then that's probably not a good sign.
edit: that is some serious aggressive scouting though. It's a really good example.
thanks for the help btw.
AppleSmack
Banned
K guys I got a game for you now
TvP. Right now its my worst matchup (actually TvT may be worse, not sure). Thank the gods this guy went colossus and not HT. Anyway it was a pretty cool game with a nice scout by me. Where should I be focusing most of my improvement? What do you notice that can be done better? I'm also wonder if I play overly aggressive.
Right now, the biggest thing that sticks out for me are the mules.. Damn that energy on CC was high.
http://drop.sc/316547
TvP. Right now its my worst matchup (actually TvT may be worse, not sure). Thank the gods this guy went colossus and not HT. Anyway it was a pretty cool game with a nice scout by me. Where should I be focusing most of my improvement? What do you notice that can be done better? I'm also wonder if I play overly aggressive.
Right now, the biggest thing that sticks out for me are the mules.. Damn that energy on CC was high.
http://drop.sc/316547
bah... just finished the campaign. great gameplay but lol @ the story. it's official, metzen is only capable of writing one plot. ZOMG a greater evil that is going to destroy the universe? That can only mean everyone will set aside their differences and kill the evildoer in the third episode! Sounds like a WoW expansion.
It's kinda crazy that he's managed to take all of the SC lore and distill it down to yet another boring 'save the universe' plot.
It's kinda crazy that he's managed to take all of the SC lore and distill it down to yet another boring 'save the universe' plot.
Felix Lighter
Member
Ahhhh, never mind.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
That's because it's all about a boy and a girl. Didn't you get the memo.
Also, I'm up to being able to beat normal on 1vsAI. Which, considering yesterday I was losing on Easy, I'm pretty happy. I think I work best with Protoss though.
Ecto311
Member
K guys I got a game for you now
TvP. Right now its my worst matchup (actually TvT may be worse, not sure). Thank the gods this guy went colossus and not HT. Anyway it was a pretty cool game with a nice scout by me. Where should I be focusing most of my improvement? What do you notice that can be done better? I'm also wonder if I play overly aggressive.
Right now, the biggest thing that sticks out for me are the mules.. Damn that energy on CC was high.
http://drop.sc/316547
Not sure how you hotkey but for me I put all my queens on 2 then by base view hotkey on ` or the ~ button. That way I can hit 2 then tap ~inject~inject~inject~ to bounce around the bases and inject. For mules I would put all the CC on one key then hit that key and the mule hotkey (I use grid) and the ~ key to speed to a base you want then hammer out all of the mules. For me it becomes habit to tap 2~ every few seconds. Not sure if that kind of technique would work in your situation. Also giving the audiobuilds a try helps get an idea of how the pros are handling things.
On mobile or full site? On mobile you hit the arrow on the right side to go to the last page. For the full site I have it in my subs so I just hit last page but I think there is a last post viewed option too.
darkiguana
Member
It is nice when you know that you are getting better. I just had 2 games, that I probably would have lost a couple of weeks ago, that I just won, AND I got bumped up to silver league.
Corran Horn
May the Schwartz be with you
I was like 14-3....now I cant beat terran or zerg to save my life.
-COOLIO-
The Everyman
nydus swarm host, sounds like some potent shit.
You can kill it with enough units if you are doing an aggressive build yourself and react immediately...otherwise delay delay delay until tempests. Try doing WP harass if you went robo in the mean time.
Can you really wait that long? If it's coming off 2base, it's going to be reinforced with hydras pretty quickly. The last thing you want to do is cede map control for a significant period of time so zerg can strengthen their economy. Vipers are also a pretty strong followup to this build, which would do well against tempests.
Warp prism harass while building colossus is what's killed me when I've tried this build. You definitely need a second robo if you go that route, since a good zerg will be sniping your observers.
That doesn't really answer my question though. What build should I do? I've faced it on the KR server a couple of times against zerg. (I'm in Platinum by the way but should be promoted to diamond shortly).
Like, is stargate build pretty useless and go for straight robo into colossus?
*brobump*
I'm 3-1 since my tutoring session with EscapingJail.
From the brink of dropping the game altogether to finding enjoyment in it again after some dedicated improvement.
I love hearing stories like these.
Glad EJ offered the help.
K guys I got a game for you now
TvP. Right now its my worst matchup (actually TvT may be worse, not sure). Thank the gods this guy went colossus and not HT. Anyway it was a pretty cool game with a nice scout by me. Where should I be focusing most of my improvement? What do you notice that can be done better? I'm also wonder if I play overly aggressive.
Right now, the biggest thing that sticks out for me are the mules.. Damn that energy on CC was high.
http://drop.sc/316547
This is coming from a Gold level Terran, where TvP is my second worst match up next to TvZ so it probably won't mean much but here goes...
- Nice scout of the proxy! It's hard when it's such a huge map like Whirlwind.
- I really love your aggression. Keep that up! The only thing I would suggest, related to that double Medivac drop around 12 minutes into the game... break that up into a double-pronged attack. Make one Medivac drop in his main mineral line and the other in his natural.
- Upgrades! After +1/+1 Infantry finished, you forgot about +2/+2.
- Like you already said, Orbital Command energy. Just keep MULEing or scanning constantly.
- This is something that you usually only see the Korean pros do, but try using that Factory that you have no use for anymore in your attack to draw Stalker fire and/or land it to draw Colossi fire so you can take out his natural easier or something.
- Something minor, but you when commit to your attack and you see that his army composition barely has any Stalkers in it, I would try kiting back with your Marines and Marauders while easily picking off Colossi with those Vikings while they have nothing to attack.
Other than that, I would just say keep up the good play! Your TvP looks pretty solid to me.
AdventureRacing
Member
Oh man i friggin love bio + widow mine play against zerg. You can just put on so much aggression and it feels much easier to leave defense around the place.
That early expansion felt a little risky. How do you defend against early gateway pressure with that? You got a few gimmies early on that put you way in front. You went for a greedy expansion which meant your natural was up way before his. He lost his scouting probe for nothing and didn't even scout your gases or anything. Then he lost his proxy pylon and stargate without building anything.
That drop worked out great for you as well. When you were on 96 supply he was on like 69, you were a mile ahead. You also got 1/1 up before he even had a forge. If your armory timing wasn't so far off you probably could have got 2/2 whilst he was on 0/0.
In the end it was a completely one sided game. He botched his early game and from there things just snowballed. You played well but it's hard to analyse a replay when it's basically all one sided. A game that is a bit closer or that you lost is probably better to learn something from.
K guys I got a game for you now
TvP. Right now its my worst matchup (actually TvT may be worse, not sure). Thank the gods this guy went colossus and not HT. Anyway it was a pretty cool game with a nice scout by me. Where should I be focusing most of my improvement? What do you notice that can be done better? I'm also wonder if I play overly aggressive.
Right now, the biggest thing that sticks out for me are the mules.. Damn that energy on CC was high.
http://drop.sc/316547
That early expansion felt a little risky. How do you defend against early gateway pressure with that? You got a few gimmies early on that put you way in front. You went for a greedy expansion which meant your natural was up way before his. He lost his scouting probe for nothing and didn't even scout your gases or anything. Then he lost his proxy pylon and stargate without building anything.
That drop worked out great for you as well. When you were on 96 supply he was on like 69, you were a mile ahead. You also got 1/1 up before he even had a forge. If your armory timing wasn't so far off you probably could have got 2/2 whilst he was on 0/0.
In the end it was a completely one sided game. He botched his early game and from there things just snowballed. You played well but it's hard to analyse a replay when it's basically all one sided. A game that is a bit closer or that you lost is probably better to learn something from.
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
Well, I've just gone 9-34. Thanks blizzard, your 50% win ratio nonsense you've really done well there. That's not even a 25% win ratio. It's enough to make you just want to quit the game full stop and play something that's actually fun, but I know i'm to much of an idiot to do that. Also I'm now 3-19 TvZ. Is there anyone who could possibly be as bad at a matchup relative to MMR as that?
AdventureRacing
Member
Post up a few replays so we can see what's going wrong. Matchmaking is going to take a little while before it's fully worked out. What league are you in?
Either route you cede map control until you can deal with the threat. I find unless you're going colossus anyway (like robo bay done already) it takes too long to get enough splash to push back locusts and deal with an entrenched zerg (spores/spines/queens/swarmhosts and hydras by the time you get more than a couple colossus). Tempests OTOH are guarenteed to pick away at everything and deal actual damage beginning with the very first one. You absolutely have time given how much the zerg invests and how well tempests scale in the late game IMO.
Tempests and related tech build faster than colossus and related tech as well, though you need a robo facility for the obs. But since your gas is at a premium WP zealot harass and tempests combo well IMO.
It should answer your question. You shouldn't do a build directly to counter one possible opening of your opponent, you should learn how to deal with his opening regardless of what opening you went for.
But more directly stargate is great, IMO the best opener period and thats why its the most popular, you can take map control, kill overlords and make the nydus harder to get up , harass economy, transition to tempests easier, usually get the robo with it and it deals with every other zerg opening rather nicely too.
But if my only goal was to kill that specific two base zerg swarm host contain, I'd probably go for an insta robo bay and pump colossus, its just not great at much else.
Anyone see this video?
Evil Geniuses: My Time - Presented by Razer Academy (Featuring Stephano)
At the very end, Stephano announces that he intends to retire from StarCraft II in 6 months and continue his academic studies starting Fall 2013.
Sad times.
Evil Geniuses: My Time - Presented by Razer Academy (Featuring Stephano)
About said:
At the very end, Stephano announces that he intends to retire from StarCraft II in 6 months and continue his academic studies starting Fall 2013.
Sad times.
He never had a champions attitude so I'm not very surprised.Anyone see this video?
Evil Geniuses: My Time - Presented by Razer Academy (Featuring Stephano)
At the very end, Stephano announces that he intends to retire from StarCraft II in 6 months and continue his academic studies starting Fall 2013.
Sad times.
I still like him and how he played, but this doesn't surprise me at all.
Well apart from the fact it feels like the fifth time his day of retirement has been hyped, care factor is at zero due to him forfeiting Code S. His chance to win or even do well was probably nigh on zero, but the fact hes not even going to try tells me hes been well and truly EG'd.
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
Gold. The league that allows anyone but the bottom 25% in and contains a third of all players. I posted a replay a couple of days ago here, but now I think i know i need to practice doing a one rax expand, 8-9ish minute attack (assuming they expanded too), and trying to drop my way to victory if I fall behind or macro my way to victory if i somehow come out ahead.
It's just taking awhile to get used to, and causing me to lose like crazy, but I probably should wait until that's more smoothed out before asking for replay help.
AdventureRacing
Member
It's good you know where you want to improve. It takes time and we all go through. I'm in the process of trying to learn to play terran and believe me i know what it feels like to lose in some embarrasing players. I'm pretty sure some of the people i'm facing must be wondering how the fuck i'm even facing them with the level of play i sometimes show lol.
Just gotta keep at it and most of all try and have some fun whilst you do it.
You know what would have been funnier? Story patch to fix the mess this game has become.
AdventureRacing
Member
What if the story was the april fools joke?
AppleSmack
Banned
*brobump*
From the brink of dropping the game altogether to finding enjoyment in it again after some dedicated improvement.
I love hearing stories like these.
Glad EJ offered the help.
This is coming from a Gold level Terran, where TvP is my second worst match up next to TvZ so it probably won't mean much but here goes...
- Nice scout of the proxy! It's hard when it's such a huge map like Whirlwind.
- I really love your aggression. Keep that up! The only thing I would suggest, related to that double Medivac drop around 12 minutes into the game... break that up into a double-pronged attack. Make one Medivac drop in his main mineral line and the other in his natural.
- Upgrades! After +1/+1 Infantry finished, you forgot about +2/+2.
- Like you already said, Orbital Command energy. Just keep MULEing or scanning constantly.
- This is something that you usually only see the Korean pros do, but try using that Factory that you have no use for anymore in your attack to draw Stalker fire and/or land it to draw Colossi fire so you can take out his natural easier or something.
- Something minor, but you when commit to your attack and you see that his army composition barely has any Stalkers in it, I would try kiting back with your Marines and Marauders while easily picking off Colossi with those Vikings while they have nothing to attack.
Other than that, I would just say keep up the good play! Your TvP looks pretty solid to me.
Thanks. Yeah I noticed my mules but I didn't notice that I forgot 2/2
AAAAAHHH!! Thanks for pointing that out.The build is supposed to be a standard 2 mine drop opener. Was very popular in the MLG. The idea is that if I feel unsafe, I can build the CC on the high ground, use bunkers to defend and also use the 2 mines I make from the factory defensively if needed. Since I make marines 2 at a time it should be enough to hold gateway pushes as long as I scout them. On a map like whirlwind though, I usually just put the CC on low-ground. Heck I do it on other maps as well just cause I feel like they aren't going to cheese. I am almost never cheesed with an early gateway timing. I think it happened only once and I lost only because I completely screwed up my build (was when I was still getting the feel of the game after being away for so long).
Here is where I got the build from:
http://www.gosubuilds.com/hots-terran/hots-tvp/tvp-reactored-rax-fe-into-marinewidow-mine-drop/
I think I should definitely practice against some cheese however, just to be sure. I'll also try and get a replay where I lost later today.
Interfectum
Member
Metzen gets $10,000 added to his paycheck for every time Kerrigan says "I. AM. THE QUEEN OF BLADES!"
rakkadakka
Member
After D3 I no longer feel the need to even pay attention to Blizzard's stories.
Acer TeamStory Cup - Team Liquid vs ROOT Gaming
Rotterdam is solo casting. I think he's just streaming replays?
Rotterdam is solo casting. I think he's just streaming replays?
Nope, streaming live games (with a 2 minute delay).