They were originally planning on hiding the entirety of the results and selecting replays to cast during the week with no live component at all for the qualifiers
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//: StarCraft II: Heart of the Swarm |OT| Like Riding a Bike
- Thread starter Corran Horn
- Start date
They were originally planning on hiding the entirety of the results and selecting replays to cast during the week with no live component at all for the qualifiers
Fuck. I was hoping DeMusliM was going to make it. So damn close.
Infestors kind of suck in HOTS, unfortunately. The only time I see people using them now is once ultras are out in zvt, to prevent them from getting kited.
AdventureRacing
Member
I really hope blizzard is actually listening to the feedback, the whole format needs to be looked at and changed. They had the right idea but everything about the execution has been fucking terrible.
Any quick recap somewhere regarding what happened? I get out of SC-loop for a few days, and now there is drama!
Last thing I have seen is some EU WCS qualifiers.Crimsonlink
Member
Not only that, the EU players are beating their Korean counter parts. I wouldn't be surprised if we get a EU champ for WCS EU. NA needs a lot more work. I have faith in Illusion but thats because he is half Korean himself lol.
Any quick recap somewhere regarding what happened? I get out of SC-loop for a few days, and now there is drama!
The things i can remember are:
Known hackers allowed to play and progress through tournament, only being disqualified after they had got deep and knocked out many other people.
Chinese players being told they were registered when they actually weren't. Then when one managed to get an account in to the tournament he was disqualified for playing on someone else's account. He was the 2012 chinese wcs champion.
Event being cast from replays with many results being known/leaked, trying to crack down hard on anyone who revealed results - even though their own bracket website was responsible for a large number of these "leaks". Stringing the event along over many days so that old games are shown when their results have been known for a long time.
Poor seeding that led to players who are obviously very strong playing each other quite early and knocking each other down/out, while weaker players were seeded higher and therefore got further.
People still mad that demuslim wasnt invited in to tournament. Him being the only foreigner to get to the final match before qualification kind of proves he is the best of them.
The brackets they published had an error which they eventually corrected but they did not make any announcement about the change or tell the players involved what had happened, they just changed it on their website.
There are probably some more that i forget.
So, how much did it cost to hire a girlfriend?
I know Holden is looking for the same thing.
Well... I'm pretty sure this wasn't possible in the original:
If you don't recognize it, that's the final mission of the Protoss campaign, completely eradicated of Zerg.
I'm pretty sure it was possible. Not that there was any point in it, destroying the Overmind was enough. Indeed simples way to do that was to send massed units to attack it directly, enough would get through so that you'd win eventually.
EDIT shit, just realized you're talking about Brood War. Still i think eradicating Zerg is quite possible, they didn't have any invulnerable bases...
Also that Carrier pick makes me truly realize how much i miss the original Carrier, the SC2 model is pretty horrible for it. It doesn't feel massive and aweinspiring enough. If it were Tempest (as originally envisioned, the replacement for Carrier), i'd be fine with the model...
AdventureRacing
Member
The EU qualifiers only had like 4 Koreans and they weren't even that good, the situations were completely different.
I agree that in the actual code S tournament the European players have a much better chance as there are a lot better good Europeans than north american players. That plus there are far less Koreans.
Yoshichan
And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
Felix Lighter
Member
Absolutely. It seemed from what was being said around the announcement that WCS was slapped together very quickly after HotS release and wasn't as well thought out as it should have been. ESL seemed to do a much better job of getting things together quickly and MLG very apparently dropped the ball and Blizzard fucked up the overall format, which makes it far too easy for non-residence to compete. GSL obviously already had their shit together and having the most talented competition, there isn't a big threat of non-residence flooding their tournament. Ultimately, I hope WCS in all regions ends up resembling a GSL style tournament with the same kind of on location commitment.
Have you seen a group of lings or mutas move over some?
AdventureRacing
Member
It's main use so far in HOTS has been to replace the tank in TvZ. Otherwise i like it to defend early game attacks/harass and to defend expos throughout the game.
Felix Lighter
Member
The widow mine is being used in all match ups to some degree. Their being used for front ramp defense and mineral line harassment defense. They're used in drops against all races mineral lines. They are used as a replacement for siege tanks in TvZ to setup a line to fall back to when pushing with a bio army onto creep. They're also placed in key spots on the map to catch armies without detection off guard.
I think, even if their opponent takes no actual damage from them, they at the very least slow down counter attacks because rushing in without being careful can be the end of a huge chunk of your army.
I think, even if their opponent takes no actual damage from them, they at the very least slow down counter attacks because rushing in without being careful can be the end of a huge chunk of your army.
http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/1cuqtn/why_nasl_has_not_made_an_announcement_yet_and_why/
This guy makes a good point. I knew about the fact that they werent allowed to clash but i didnt think about what could happen if MLG just dont tell them when the events will be: they will be locked in limbo forever.
Hopefully their casters have had enough time to practice some dota 2 before they switch.
This guy makes a good point. I knew about the fact that they werent allowed to clash but i didnt think about what could happen if MLG just dont tell them when the events will be: they will be locked in limbo forever.
Hopefully their casters have had enough time to practice some dota 2 before they switch.
Yoshichan
And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
I hear you. PM me whenever with a day that fits you and I'll adapt!!When I have the time playing... alot of work
AdventureRacing
Member
So not only are they fucking up the WCS they are also screwing over every other tournament in the process. The more i see of what blizzard has done the more i dislike it.
MLG fucking with the competition, who'd have thought.
AdventureRacing
Member
Actually this problem is really 100% blizzards making, i can't blame MLG if they decide to capitalise on this sort of stupid decision making.
I'm only in gold so I bet they would still crush face, but even in the pros I think they're under used.
Awesome dude thanks!
I think MLG can do a much better job with the up coming rounds, the MLG winter championship live stream was waaaaaaaaaaay better... hopefully they can replicate some of that magic.
ESL probably picked the EU invites. Koreans generally don't like playing on the EU server because there is a lot more lag versus NA.
This is a total joke. Have you seen the list of Koreans who chose to compete on NA vs EU?
I've started dipping my toe in the water by playing the computer a bit. They weren't kidding when they said that the multiplayer and campaign units were different - I think even the build times on buildings are different.
I also still don't know how to scout and interpret what I see. This is nothing new, though; I couldn't do it right in BW either!
Well, I haven't. Who is in NA and who is in EU?
I also still don't know how to scout and interpret what I see. This is nothing new, though; I couldn't do it right in BW either!
Well, I haven't. Who is in NA and who is in EU?
The following Koreans participated in at least one of the four Premier League Qualifiers followed by their GSL experience:
Daisy - Western Wolves - No GSL experience
StarDust - Teamless - No GSL experience
Finale - MVP - 1 Code S season (peak ro32), 2 Code A seasons
Tails - MVP - 4 Code A seasons
Pro7ecT - RoX - No GSL experience
Shuttle - Clarity Gaming - No GSL experience - Qualified for EU WCS 2013 S1
As opposed to the Koreans who competed in the NA qualifier:
Alicia - Axiom - 3 Code S seasons (peak ro16), 5 Code A seasons
JYP - EG - 2 Code S seasons (peak ro16), 6 Code A seasons
Oz - EG - 4 Code S seasons (peak ro4), 2 Code A seasons
CranK - Axiom - 1 Code A season
Sage - ROOT - 2 Code A seasons
HwangSin - Quantic - No GSL experience
aLive - EG - 6 Code S seasons (peak ro4), 8 Code A seasons
Center - Quantic - 2 Code A seasons
TheStC - Complexity - 2 Code S seasons (peak ro16), 3 Code A seasons
Apocalypse - Quantic - No GSL experience
Heart - Axiom - 1 Code S season (peak ro16), 3 Code A seasons
MotoK - Clarity Gaming - No GSL experience
Revival - EG - 6 Code A seasons
Jaedong - EG - JAEDONG!
Miya - Axiom - 2 Code A seasons
Zenio - TL - 8 Code S seasons (peak ro16), 3 Code A seasons
A huge difference. The only Koreans that attempted to qualify on EU that are really comparable to who attempted to qualify on NA is finale and Tails.
I know you're being facetious but from my understanding the latency on EU from KR is much higher than on NA
Man, I'm reading up on all the stuff that was going wrong with the NA qualifier. Comm was basically just the tip of the iceberg. Even if the outcome wouldn't be much different, the whole bracket is pretty much invalid.
Still this really sucks for Comm and the chinese community as a whole.
No WCS Asia, no chinese invites, Comm not getting into the bracket at first, and then DQ in the finals. I would probably just quit playing the game at that point. :/
Still this really sucks for Comm and the chinese community as a whole.
No WCS Asia, no chinese invites, Comm not getting into the bracket at first, and then DQ in the finals. I would probably just quit playing the game at that point. :/
Welcome to the club.
Need to know aprox. times when people start building certain buildings to understand what you see, i think.
Scouting VS AI is pretty worthless though, strong economy and steamrolling it works just fine... well, up to a point anyway.
Scouting is one skill that is much easier to learn when playing against a human player, i think.
Been playing against computer to figure out if i like Terrans or Protoss more. No luck. I like the relative simplicity of Protoss but Terrans have nukes and siege tanks and... well, they're fun, but more demanding.
Cool to see you getting into the game. Have you picked a race yet?
As far as scouting goes I've learned a few key things of what to look for: Are they building buildings in their base? If yes then they can't afford proxy buildings if no then OMG scout like a mofo! Are they building the thing the thing that counters my build? I always go roach so I need to know if they're going air. And finally when are they expanding? It's important know that if they ARE expanding then they probably can't afford an all in and vice versa: If they aren't expanding then they CAN afford an all in, be careful.
Most importantly don't let what you scout change your plan unless you absolutely have to.
I assume initiative is much more important than reactivity, one should force the enemy to react, right? EDIT no, wait, forcing enemy to react means you have to be ready for that as well, right?
EscapingJail
Member
Last week of class for me, time to take this game seriously once I finish up these projects.
Crimsonlink
Member
Same here man. Lets practice together sometimes. You can practice TvP builds on me and I want to work on the lategame vs HT + Colossus.
BTW congrats on how far you want in WCS NA. Top 128 or 64 in the bracket isn't bad at all!
It's not about initiative vs reactivity, if you get really good at a build order you're just gonna have more stuff then them. It doesn't matter if he scouts you and builds a counter unit when you have 3 times more units then he does... and that simply comes down to good fundamentals. So while you're opponent is busy wasting his brain power and apm on trying to "figure you out" you just build a whole bunch of roaches and go kill his ass.
Scouting is important so you don't get surprised, you want to scout to make sure they're not gonna proxy you or aren't like rushing dark templar or banshee or something... but you don't need to change what you're doing in order win, it's probably better to make as little changes as possible so you can stay on track with your build order.
If you have a build order, and you get good at it, then you're gonna win more games then you loose. Even if you never scout at all.... (until you get up into like diamond and masters and stuff)
Check out Filter SC's bronze to masters series to see what I'm talking about. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SES1IAGlwDU
So, basically, as the real world military adage goes: "good generals think tactics, great generals think logistics". (Or something like that, i'm not even sure it is really an adage. Something i heard somewhere once).
EDIT: “good generals study tactics, great generals study logistics” – Omar Bradley
And so, as long as i'm more or less casual, if i want to win, i need to practice getting my macromanagement right.
Of course one shouldn't disregard micro either...
EDIT from the video (paraphrasing): "Sample game against bronze league player, no micro, no tech, no scouting, no third" (i assume this means expansion).
Really? Are normal bronze players really that bad? Or does he mean ignores (didn't have sound on, watching it proper later) those for simplicity and for demonstration purposes?
There was a pretty great post over at TL that talked about the how most low level players have their priorities incorrectly ordered.
To be brief I will quote the list, but reading original post will help give you the context and make it much clearer.
This list has worked to pull me out of Bronze and into Silver and I just started using this priority list so hopefully it will carry me much further.
Before reading this I was concerned about small things that didn't matter at my low level of play ( Bronze ). We will see if it helps me in the future. Finding time to play is the biggest hurdle.
I am in Silver right now.
EDIT: You will notice that the first 4 are really all related to macroing. Also having a plan/build order is also essential so that you have a direction when spending money.
Oh, very useful.
EDIT taking this lesson to my heart: Focus on economy and production, ie macro. Not good at micro anyway, not in the scale Starcraft 2 works.
Also, i reckon i'm going to play Protoss.
EDIT also, gotta figure out my mistakes.
It's not that their bad, just that they don't know what they're doing. They see the really good players and think they can just do what those guys are doing, without ever learning the fundamentals. Macro wins games, it has worked for me all the way up to top 8 gold, and still continues to work.
The bronze to masters method is a great way to learn, because it focuses on the fundamentals, so that when it gets to the point where you NEED to add scouting you'll have the fundamentals locked down and controlling a scout won't cause you to screw up your macro. (well, you'll probably still slip up your macro (I do) but it won't be nearly as bad.)
Don't think about it like a war game, think about it like playing an instrument: Ever picked up an instrument you've never played before and just tried to bust out a killer solo? It sounds like crap, you might look like you know what you're doing, but you're actually horrible. If you can't play a single note right, then there's no way you can play a scale, and If you don't know the scales then you'll never improvise a solo.
Idra and demuslim played some games earlier on stream, idra lost and called him "a shit player". Afterwards demuslim talked on stream about how he is a better player but idra hasnt gotten used to it yet. Said he had to gift him wins so there wouldnt be tension in the house because idra hated losing to him so much.