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//: StarCraft II: Heart of the Swarm |OT| Like Riding a Bike
- Thread starter Corran Horn
- Start date
You're right. Infestors should have a nightmare ability that causes other units to flee.
Colossus are such a lame replacement for reavers. Part of me died inside when people were freaking out about Naniwa's colossus/warp prism micro at dreamhack.
Yoshichan
And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
This made me laugh so much :lol
I think I'd cry if they bought back Reavers, I'd never win a TvP ever again.
There was a reason I was D- on iCCUP and that was TvP T_T
So is everyone pretty much unanimous in feeling that Hots has been a great improvement over WoL? I feel like every matchup is much more dynamic and exciting than WoL (aside from Zvz but even if feels slightly better imo, muta wars > roach hydra infestor powering). Anyone feel like any of the matchups are worse than WoL?
It's weird because I was never in the beta until the very end, but I distinctly remember the 'save Hots' campaign. How did the game really change between then and now?
It's weird because I was never in the beta until the very end, but I distinctly remember the 'save Hots' campaign. How did the game really change between then and now?
I think TvP is worse simply because 90% of the early game aggression you saw from Terran is gone (and mid-late game is _mostly_ identical for both races). In WoL the early game was fairly back and forth in the end.
It very much reminds me of the days where protoss wouldn't get any map control for ages in PvZ in WoL which was very boring.
It very much reminds me of the days where protoss wouldn't get any map control for ages in PvZ in WoL which was very boring.
Crimsonlink
Member
TvP is worse off thanks to the all ins Toss can do imo. You now have to prepare for Blink, Voidray/Stalker, 4 gate, 6 gate, 3 gate Robo push and Oracles.
I probably missed some too.
Now normally those wouldn't be a problem if only Toss players didn't have a certain unit called the Mothership core to charge the Nexus and make it a cannon so that the Terran can't force most Protoss units back to the main to defend. Instead of relying on a super long ranged cannon and pushing at the same time leaving only 2 zealots or Stalkers to clean up drops.
Really? I felt TvP near the end of WoL to be pretty much the same. 2/3rax aggression was out the window due to how Protoss opened most of the time. With HOTS they can get away with a lot more but it doesn't affect /that/ much, just means the Terran can play greedy-ish too as long as they keep tabs on Protoss and what they're building.
Terran used to be able to move out with concussive shells - and did. It was also pretty common to send in 5-6 marines into the natural early on and see if you can snipe probes/sentries because often protoss had only a couple stalkers which were out. There were also marine/hellion rarely. Basically you used to be able to keep the protoss honest.
Obviously you can still open the same way as terran but no one does because a) toss all-ins are much scarier in HoTS (more variety + time warp), b) you have to account for the oracle by either fast tech, fast turrets or a ton of marines and c) theres no point because a mothership core kills anything.
Even protoss simply being able to have a flying AtG unit at your base alongside the first stalker limits terrans options. You have to have a bunker if they do that, and X number of marines. In WoL terrans sometimes just sat at the top of their ramp without a bunker for a decent period and spent that 100 minerals elsewhere at the beginning.
It all just shunts terran down a path that is to me, very different to watch than WoL and much more stale.
Goliaths in game.
Just give Zerg Kerrigan.
I am I the only one who noticed that Kerrigan's Swarm couldn't morph Overseers and had no mobile detection? This seemed like a rather silly oversight on her part.
I did notice that, but since we were fighting terrans mostly it didn't matter as much. The terrans also didn't really build too many banshees either.
Hellbats would get crushed by locusts and broodlings while dealing absolutely no damage while ravens would sit around doing nothing after a few hopefully successful seeker missile shots.
I'm no Terran, so I dunno. Swarm Host + Infestors + Broodlords = hella gas, so I guess letting Zerg get to that point means you might have let them macro too hard. Anything on the ground would get destroyed by that composition, so I guess taking to the air would be best?
I think I've identified my biggest problem which is army composition. I've gotten pretty good at macro and knowing when to drone, but I always end up having a crappy army composition compared to what I'm facing, mainly versus Protoss. A flowchart like this would be pretty handy in checking what to make versus what:
If you're meching go ravens and do thor drops/hellbat drops everywhere his army isn't while keeping your tanks at home.
Also use building walls, building walls are such a cool counter to swarmhosts as you can repair them over and over.
The broodlords are countered by HSM.
Crimsonlink
Member
As a bio player I have this to say.
Go drop and kill the Zerg's tech and expos.
Like that army is so immobile you can kill most stuff.
Make Banshees for fun lol.
But seriously MMM + Tanks and Vikings is the counter to that style. Just need a lot of Vikings to take out the BL. The tanks keep the Infestors away. Everything else melts to MMM.
AdventureRacing
Member
That army has no mobility at all so i'd suggest a lot of drop play to deal with it. Also there doesn't seem to be much anti air against vikings, the new infestors don't seem nearly as effective for that.
I think just a standard WOL late game army would be fine for that.
Constant drops everywhere. Lots of Ravens. Keep poking at different base with medic marine mine viking.
Swarmhost broodlord is probably the slowest army you could possibly assemble in starcraft. Be vigilant in killing creep, move around a lot, and look to catch either the broodlords or swarmhosts without the infestor support.
I think tanks wouldn't be worth the hindrance to your your mobility. They'd be useful in defense, but ideally you'd be defending by attacking. I don't play terran, but I'd rather see 4-5 tanks rather than 4-5 additional Ravens. If the infestors are still giving you trouble, ghosts would be a better hard counter if you can handle the additional micro.
AppleSmack
Banned
http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/1dyuk7/idras_message_to_all_his_followers/
yeah...
Fuck IdrA. I'm done with this asshole. Moving over to Demuslim's stream. He is totally wrong too. The reason we don't watch Code S koreans that often is because we can't understand them and they rarely speak english or talk at all. Compared to someone like Demuslim, who is very active with his fans, there is a huge difference.
yeah...
Fuck IdrA. I'm done with this asshole. Moving over to Demuslim's stream. He is totally wrong too. The reason we don't watch Code S koreans that often is because we can't understand them and they rarely speak english or talk at all. Compared to someone like Demuslim, who is very active with his fans, there is a huge difference.
I just saw this on TL and was trying to work out where the post actually was but yeah holy shit. TBH it's pretty obvious he's just in it for the money at this point given how much he streams rather than real practice.
Remembering Incontrols comments during early SC2 about casters who are just in it for the money are pretty funny now though lol
Corran Horn
May the Schwartz be with you
To be fair thats kinda what EG is. Its about promoting players/sponsors. Not so much about winning. As long as people keep talking about idra, he is worth it to them.
PhoenixDark
Banned
Idra is done, and has been done for probably a year. You can just tell he's so frustrated that he doesn't try anymore. Can't stand him.
AppleSmack
Banned
I dunno what you mean by "talk". You mean hate on him? Even his own stream is filled with hate; just a mass amount of people insulting him at any opportunity and drowning out everyone else. It is probably a big reason for his drop in viewers.
Corran Horn
May the Schwartz be with you
His stream is always full of hate. His chat has always been crazy since he doesnt give a fuck about it.
agreed
IdrA's Perfect Mindset
http://youtu.be/in7nKYw5cAU
I don't really understand why there are people that legitimately still try to hold water for him. I spent some of the WCG arguing on twitch with someone who said 'you're all fucks, Idra is better than anyone in this chat and is a great ambassador because he was on CNN', as if that was at all relevant to why he gets the reception he does.
I've long since switched over to Demuslims stream, he's generally very chipper and spends a lot of time interacting with his fans. It's interesting to see how he kind of 'snapped' a while back and said that stuff about Greg after he heard that Greg was calling him terrible etc after they'd played. The funny thing being the Demuslim seems like a genuinely nice guy, and having finally had enough did have a very real effect on his mood for the next little while where as Idra, being a cold prick, couldn't care less aside from basically cutting Demuslim out on ladder etc.
http://youtu.be/in7nKYw5cAU
I don't really understand why there are people that legitimately still try to hold water for him. I spent some of the WCG arguing on twitch with someone who said 'you're all fucks, Idra is better than anyone in this chat and is a great ambassador because he was on CNN', as if that was at all relevant to why he gets the reception he does.
I've long since switched over to Demuslims stream, he's generally very chipper and spends a lot of time interacting with his fans. It's interesting to see how he kind of 'snapped' a while back and said that stuff about Greg after he heard that Greg was calling him terrible etc after they'd played. The funny thing being the Demuslim seems like a genuinely nice guy, and having finally had enough did have a very real effect on his mood for the next little while where as Idra, being a cold prick, couldn't care less aside from basically cutting Demuslim out on ladder etc.
The crazy thing is that he was actually playing really well against Polt until he started getting frustrated and eventually ragequit.
What happened between Demuslim and Idra?
Idra and Demuslim were playing on ladder, an Idra was calling him a terrible player and swearing at him on his stream, Idra left no gg when Demuslim beat him. So that's the context for how it started; Demuslim caught wind of the fact that Idra was calling him terrible, and a fucker etc, and kind of lost his cool slightly in terms of professionalism (not that you can blame him).
He said "He said that...? It doesn't matter, honestly I'm a better player than him he just needs to accept that".
Demuslim went on to talk about it in more detail saying that Greg hates losing to anyone, but especially him for some reason. It got to the point, when he and Idra sat next to one another in the house, that Demuslim would literally give him wins just to reduce the awkward atmosphere in the house.
Later Demuslim said he'd Hellbat drop Idra on stream and when they matched up Idra called him a stupid piece of shit and insta left. He now refuses to play Demuslim on ladder or practice with him. Demuslim has said he no longer will be on Inside the Game, partly to put distance between he and Greg and partly because he isn't knowledgeable enough about the community to talk about drama.
This makes it sound worse for Demuslim, but when you see how everything played out on the streams, yeah, Demuslim snapped a bit, but it was warranted.
Yoshichan
And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
What a complete fucking moron. I like IdrAs old-school type of play but he's a moron when it comes to handling his fans.
Disgusting.
Idra's a prick. News at 11.
celestial body
Member
you're quick!
I thought this would happen. It was too much.
I thought this would happen. It was too much.