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//: StarCraft II: Heart of the Swarm |OT| Like Riding a Bike

R

Repo Man

Member
God damn this game!...

Utter noob to rts games, never played them online, only done some single player campaigns in WC3 and the C&C games so decided to finally take the plunge and give SC2 a proper go but fuck me if this isnt the most frustratingly difficult games to master which makes me adore it and despise it at the same time!

You got a build order sorted, you're comfy with it, all is well and good and the opposition goes cheese and rushes in with all of his workers, cant believe i got pwned by that...

Gah! I shall persevere! I will get better at this game one day

PS. Whats the scoop with the matchmaking ? I got placed in the low bronze league ( as expected taking into consideration my lack of skill ) but in one of my games i got matched against someone who was doing their 1v1 placement games but was in diamond/masters in team games and had brutalled the WoL and HotS campaigns. Fair enough, single player campaigns are single player campaigns but you'd think the matchmaking took team ratings into account aswell. :/
 
S

sixghost

Member
Repo Man said:
God damn this game!...

Utter noob to rts games, never played them online, only done some single player campaigns in WC3 and the C&C games so decided to finally take the plunge and give SC2 a proper go but fuck me if this isnt the most frustratingly difficult games to master which makes me adore it and despise it at the same time!

You got a build order sorted, you're comfy with it, all is well and good and the opposition goes cheese and rushes in with all of his workers, cant believe i got pwned by that...

Gah! I shall persevere! I will get better at this game one day

PS. Whats the scoop with the matchmaking ? I got placed in the low bronze league ( as expected taking into consideration my lack of skill ) but in one of my games i got matched against someone who was doing their 1v1 placement games but was in diamond/masters in team games and had brutalled the WoL and HotS campaigns. Fair enough, single player campaigns are single player campaigns but you'd think the matchmaking took team ratings into account aswell. :/
Click to expand...

Don't think of build orders as things that can't be deviated from. All build orders should incorporate scouting and have planned adjustments.
 
K

Ketch

Member
Repo Man said:
God damn this game!...

Utter noob to rts games, never played them online, only done some single player campaigns in WC3 and the C&C games so decided to finally take the plunge and give SC2 a proper go but fuck me if this isnt the most frustratingly difficult games to master which makes me adore it and despise it at the same time!

You got a build order sorted, you're comfy with it, all is well and good and the opposition goes cheese and rushes in with all of his workers, cant believe i got pwned by that...

Gah! I shall persevere! I will get better at this game one day

PS. Whats the scoop with the matchmaking ? I got placed in the low bronze league ( as expected taking into consideration my lack of skill ) but in one of my games i got matched against someone who was doing their 1v1 placement games but was in diamond/masters in team games and had brutalled the WoL and HotS campaigns. Fair enough, single player campaigns are single player campaigns but you'd think the matchmaking took team ratings into account aswell. :/
Click to expand...

I think at the very low levels, especially when you're just starting out, you can't feel bad about loosing to cheese. Cheese works in the short term.

And even though six ghost mentions scouting, I don't think you need it in bronze or silver and still only just a little in gold. Focusing the basic fundamentals will result in faster improvement and more wins. After getting cheesed a dozen times or so it won't even phase you.

Don't think of your games as trying to win. Think of them as trying to train.

Have you watched FilteSC's bronze to masters series on YouTube? If not you should definitely check it out. It is the best "how to play Starcraft" video ther is.
 
C

celestial body

Member
matchmaking: you just beat 3 guys in a row, ok now try these guys who are slightly better than you. That's when I realise that my suspicions are correct and I am infact utter shit. However on the other hand victory in this game feels miles better than in any other. Love it.
 
M

Mairu

Member
SamuraiX- said:
I said holy FUCK

LucifroN & VortiX join mousesports

mousesports updated roster:
iO63GM4.png


:O :O :O

Challenging Acer and Millenium for the title of best SCII progaming team in Europe.
Click to expand...

Beastly team. Easily better than Acer and the current Millenium in terms of diversity. Hope to see them in the next EGMC/ATC/whatever team league!
 
Yoshichan

Yoshichan

And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
Where's profit? It's been awhile since he did his last replay.
 
K

Ketch

Member
Ok, so day9 says this a lot, but it's really applicable to the way I'm playing right now. I need plan to win on hive tech.

I keep getting stuck on lair tech. Like I'll even have 4 or 5 bases, but instead of teching up I just keep building lair units. Like ugghhhh, it feels so crappy, because I'm ahead I crush the early game and the mid game, but then if I can't kill them in the mid game it just drags on until my lings and muta's are worthless.

So any advice on how to snap my self out of that mind set of "MORE UNITS" when I'm in the middle of a game? For my Zerg mentors, how do you know when it's time for Hive tech?

Here's the replay: http://drop.sc/339261
 
S

SamuraiX-

Member
Ketch said:
Ok, so day9 says this a lot, but it's really applicable to the way I'm playing right now. I need plan to win on hive tech.

I keep getting stuck on lair tech. Like I'll even have 4 or 5 bases, but instead of teching up I just keep building lair units. Like ugghhhh, it feels so crappy, because I'm ahead I crush the early game and the mid game, but then if I can't kill them in the mid game it just drags on until my lings and muta's are worthless.

So any advice on how to snap my self out of that mind set of "MORE UNITS" when I'm in the middle of a game? For my Zerg mentors, how do you know when it's time for Hive tech?

Here's the replay: http://drop.sc/339261
Click to expand...

I think you were a little too aggressive that second wave attack wave consisting of solo Banelings. You should never just send in a group of Banelings at an opponent without support since it really reduces their effectiveness.

This happened around 14:30. At this point, you could also tell he was giving up bio and looked to be going mech. I think you easily could've won the game with Lair tech using a 1/1 or 2/2 Roach/Hydra composition. I just don't think Ling/Bane/Muta was a good choice against Hellbat/Tank/Viking/Thor/Battlecruiser. Your first Baneling attack was good, but when your second one hit at 14:30 and you noticed he had 3 tanks, a Thor and only 4 Marauders, that's when I would've switched to Roach/Hydra.

Also, one other thing to note is that you stopped droning a little too early. Your third base was up and running with only 6 Drones mining minerals for about 4 minutes. After that failed second Baneling attack, I think it would've been best to focus on saturating that third base before anything else.

Sorry for the ramble, but I hope it helps.

To simply answer your original question, I would've teched up to Hive at earliest around 14:30 when you noticed he had his first Thor out or at latest around 21:00 when you scouted his Fusion Core.
 
K

Ketch

Member
SamuraiX- said:
I think you were a little too aggressive that second wave attack wave consisting of solo Banelings. You should never just send in a group of Banelings at an opponent without support since it really reduces their effectiveness.

This happened around 14:30. At this point, you could also tell he was giving up bio and looked to be going mech. I think you easily could've won the game with Lair tech using a 1/1 or 2/2 Roach/Hydra composition. I just don't think Ling/Bane/Muta was a good choice against Hellbat/Tank/Viking/Thor/Battlecruiser. Your first Baneling attack was good, but when your second one hit at 14:30 and you noticed he had 3 tanks, a Thor and only 4 Marauders, that's when I would've switched to Roach/Hydra.

Also, one other thing to note is that you stopped droning a little too early. Your third base was up and running with only 6 Drones mining minerals for about 4 minutes. After that failed second Baneling attack, I think it would've been best to focus on saturating that third base before anything else.

Sorry for the ramble, but I hope it helps.

To simply answer your original question, I would've teched up to Hive at earliest around 14:30 when you noticed he had his first Thor out or at latest around 21:00 when you scouted his Fusion Core.
Click to expand...

So maybe I'm just over analyzing this and the real answer is just : Macro. ?
 
P

profit

Member
Yoshichan said:
Where's profit? It's been awhile since he did his last replay.
Click to expand...

I knooooooow :(
Just been so busy lately...

I have one replay I posted in the StarGAF open thread.
Profit vs. Derzuhälter: http://drop.sc/338918

Will most likely get some games in this weekend because I plan on doing all household work today when I get home from work so that I am completely free for two days!
 
K

Ketch

Member
profit said:
I knooooooow :(
Just been so busy lately...

I have one replay I posted in the StarGAF open thread.
Profit vs. Derzuhälter: http://drop.sc/338918

Will most likely get some games in this weekend because I plan on doing all household work today when I get home from work so that I am completely free for two days!
Click to expand...

Hey man we should play some practice matches (although I'll probably be on shitty hotel internet) if you're interested.....

but you're EU so if I'm on shitty internet it might be a real bad idea.... I just want to practice playing with infestors.
 
S

SamuraiX-

Member
Ketch said:
So maybe I'm just over analyzing this and the real answer is just : Macro. ?
Click to expand...

I think you're macroing pretty well, but my recommendation would be to always focus first and foremost on saturating your first three bases ASAP as you are getting them up.

Also, creep spread, creep spread, creep spread! :)
 
P

profit

Member
Ketch said:
Hey man we should play some practice matches (although I'll probably be on shitty hotel internet) if you're interested.....

but you're EU so if I'm on shitty internet it might be a real bad idea.... I just want to practice playing with infestors.
Click to expand...

Sure, I'll hit you with a PM when I'm able to play :)
 
S

sixghost

Member
Ketch said:
Ok, so day9 says this a lot, but it's really applicable to the way I'm playing right now. I need plan to win on hive tech.

I keep getting stuck on lair tech. Like I'll even have 4 or 5 bases, but instead of teching up I just keep building lair units. Like ugghhhh, it feels so crappy, because I'm ahead I crush the early game and the mid game, but then if I can't kill them in the mid game it just drags on until my lings and muta's are worthless.

So any advice on how to snap my self out of that mind set of "MORE UNITS" when I'm in the middle of a game? For my Zerg mentors, how do you know when it's time for Hive tech?

Here's the replay: http://drop.sc/339261
Click to expand...
I have zero room to talk, since this has been my worst starcraft habit for the last 5 years. Unless you feel like you are going to get rolled in the next 5 minutes, just make the hive. It's 150 gas, that's 1 1/2 muta. Getting that hive isn't going to cost you the game.

Muta/ling/bane is a trap. It makes you feel invincible mid to late-mid game, but unless you're actually crushing armies consistently, you aren't going to win the game with that composition. Bio scales so well against mutas unless you're going double spire, so just get in the mindset of trying to get the hell off of mutalisks once you have around 15 or 16. Starting your infestation pit around 12 or 13 mutas is a good start. Then immediately after it finishes, start hive.
 
F

f0rk

Member
Ketch said:
Ok, so day9 says this a lot, but it's really applicable to the way I'm playing right now. I need plan to win on hive tech.

I keep getting stuck on lair tech. Like I'll even have 4 or 5 bases, but instead of teching up I just keep building lair units. Like ugghhhh, it feels so crappy, because I'm ahead I crush the early game and the mid game, but then if I can't kill them in the mid game it just drags on until my lings and muta's are worthless.

So any advice on how to snap my self out of that mind set of "MORE UNITS" when I'm in the middle of a game? For my Zerg mentors, how do you know when it's time for Hive tech?

Here's the replay: http://drop.sc/339261
Click to expand...

Focus on upgrades and then you have to get Hive naturally for 3/3
 
D

Draft

Member
Ketch said:
Ok, so day9 says this a lot, but it's really applicable to the way I'm playing right now. I need plan to win on hive tech.

I keep getting stuck on lair tech. Like I'll even have 4 or 5 bases, but instead of teching up I just keep building lair units. Like ugghhhh, it feels so crappy, because I'm ahead I crush the early game and the mid game, but then if I can't kill them in the mid game it just drags on until my lings and muta's are worthless.

So any advice on how to snap my self out of that mind set of "MORE UNITS" when I'm in the middle of a game? For my Zerg mentors, how do you know when it's time for Hive tech?

Here's the replay: http://drop.sc/339261
Click to expand...
I have a serious problem in SC2. After winning a skirmish a stopwatch starts in my head. It doesn't actually show a time limit, it just yells, "this is your chance. Strike now. March your army into the enemy base now. Do it now. If it doesn't happen now, it will be too late. The moment will be lost. The game will be lost. Do it now. Now! NOW!"

And then most of the time I lose because my army is chewed up by static defenses and reinforcements enjoying the defender's advantage.

What I try to focus on after winning a skirmish is taking an expansion. That's my reward for winning the fight. Once that's established I scout my opponent again and try to tech appropriately for whatever he or she (lol) is building.

The scouting is important because that's what will reveal that it's OK to not build more units. If the bad guy has a big damn army sitting outside his natural then it's not time to upgrade or tech, it's time to crank units. If he's only got enough dudes to stop a full on assault it's time to press the advantage and spend money on upgrades or getting T3 units.
 
Yoshichan

Yoshichan

And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
Crazy how bad the launcher is...
 
P

profit

Member
So the GSL finals are almost upon us.
There is no way to watch the VODs after its over except with a subscription right?
 
C

Crimsonlink

Member
Ketch said:
Zerg = best race. Proven with facts.

Deal with it.
Click to expand...

It actually is if you get 4 bases and 8 gas with about 2 macro hatches. You could literally make any army in about 40 seconds at most to even counter Protoss death balls.

It baffles me how many Ultras you guys can make at a time or any unit for that matter.
 
K

Ketch

Member
Crimsonlink said:
It actually is if you get 4 bases and 8 gas with about 2 macro hatches. You could literally make any army in about 40 seconds at most to even counter Protoss death balls.

It baffles me how many Ultras you guys can make at a time or any unit for that matter.
Click to expand...

Yea, it's pretty great. Lots of fun to do too, you should switch to Zerg.
 
C

Crimsonlink

Member
Ketch said:
Yea, it's pretty great. Lots of fun to do too, you should switch to Zerg.
Click to expand...

Injects take too much effort. Also surviving drops is actually hard to do so I'd rather do the dropping myself.

Well thats it for tonight. What a disappointing result to watch through for me personally.
 
K

Ketch

Member
Oh shit just found out there letting us go home 2 hours early from work today. Gonna take a nap! Everything's turning up aces for ketch.
 
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