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//: StarCraft II: Heart of the Swarm |OT| Like Riding a Bike
- Thread starter Corran Horn
- Start date
Wooops... you are så klart an old timer mannen.
Have to få tag on the person (what is his name... was banned from here) to get an inbjudan to Lotv beta.
EDIT: Mascalineyes!
though im död in sc2gaf terms
Jag gillar negerbollar
Jag gillar din mamma.
Jag gillar verkligen din mamma
Men skillnaden är att din mamma verkligen gillar mig också.
little bit to much for my small knowledge of swedish
waiting for duolingo to release english->swedish <.<
Terribad control from the protoss though. You can't run away from a unit that shoots on the move and has the same movespeed. They just kept donating stalkers to them
Corran Horn
May the Schwartz be with you
Am I outcast gaf?
who the fuck are you?
Corran Horn
May the Schwartz be with you
Your avatar maker
You made the french?
Should be a decent novelty mode, alas basically none of my friends can micro or macro as well as me.
I think that Commander mode will be a nice draw for people who aren't traditionally into MP as well (multiplayer PvE, hero progression). Depends on what they do with it.
Should be a decent novelty mode, alas basically none of my friends can micro or macro as well as me.
I think that Commander mode will be a nice draw for people who aren't traditionally into MP as well (multiplayer PvE, hero progression). Depends on what they do with it.
LotV beta in first half of next year. Just said at panel.
-there will be a ranked ladder for archon mode
-gonna add more skins if the engine doesn't suffer
-more units they're working on that just weren't ready to show today
-LotV isn't really considered the end. They're going to continue supporting it with patches, maps, even new units if need be
-they consider it the end of the Kerrigan/Raynor/Zeratul story but not the end of Starcraft
-talked about maybe adding official ladders for popular mods
-theme of LotV mp design is more micro for both sides
-there will be a ranked ladder for archon mode
-gonna add more skins if the engine doesn't suffer
-more units they're working on that just weren't ready to show today
-LotV isn't really considered the end. They're going to continue supporting it with patches, maps, even new units if need be
-they consider it the end of the Kerrigan/Raynor/Zeratul story but not the end of Starcraft
-talked about maybe adding official ladders for popular mods
-theme of LotV mp design is more micro for both sides
AdventureRacing
Member
I've been asking for something like this for so long. About bloody time.
RumblingRosco
Member
I'm happy about this.
Corran Horn
May the Schwartz be with you
Corran Horn
May the Schwartz be with you
No its my twitter avatar...hue
HELL YEEEAAAH!!
<3 <3 <3
At least one more year of Bomber and MMA. Now they'll be back in the GSL. Hopefully TaeJa will also give it one more go with the new WCS system.
So great to hear that they will stick it out another year.
I know this is kind of the same support they have offered already, but I'm feeling the long term F2P direction. It just makes so much sense (after they have made their big bucks off the retail package). On the other hand the comment about adding new skins 'if the engine can handle it' makes me worried. Since presumably skins and the like would be a corner stone of a F2P model.
I know this is kind of the same support they have offered already, but I'm feeling the long term F2P direction. It just makes so much sense (after they have made their big bucks off the retail package). On the other hand the comment about adding new skins 'if the engine can handle it' makes me worried. Since presumably skins and the like would be a corner stone of a F2P model.
Agreed about them taking the game F2P eventually. When he talked about the engine stuff, he didn't specifically say that he knows the engine can't handle it, just that it's something they're looking into and that would be one of the possible reasons to not add a bunch of skins. Basically performance comes first and if skins detract from that in any way, they won't happen.
I just have to share this amazing reddit post:
http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/2lq9yv/can_we_all_for_a_moment_appreciate_what_just/
Glorious. XD
Can we all said:
http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/2lq9yv/can_we_all_for_a_moment_appreciate_what_just/
Glorious. XD
As a junior I can't make threads but I feel like this belongs in the gaming section.
WCS Global Finals 2014 just broke the online viewership record for SC2 (150k +)
http://www.fuzic.nl/events/4014-wcs-grand-finals/
YES, the stadium was FULL
DED GAM!
Not even counting all a lot of huge streams like
http://www.douyutv.com/scboy
The finals were probably 300k+
WCS Global Finals 2014 just broke the online viewership record for SC2 (150k +)
http://www.fuzic.nl/events/4014-wcs-grand-finals/
YES, the stadium was FULL
DED GAM!
Not even counting all a lot of huge streams like
http://www.douyutv.com/scboy
The finals were probably 300k+
Yeah, those numbers are insane. Seeing shots of every seat in the venue being filled was even more incredible to see. Glad that stage and the production values didn't go to waste. Hopefully they'll upgrade from a potato to real server next year. Even better would be LAN functionality.
Also, for those who missed it: BlizzCon 2014 - StarCraft II: Legacy of the Void Multiplayer Developer Panel
Also, for those who missed it: BlizzCon 2014 - StarCraft II: Legacy of the Void Multiplayer Developer Panel
Oh man thanks. Watching now.
EDIT: Done. Overall really happy with their answers, though I do have a concern (well less of a concern and more of a design critique).
I feel like, even with some units in LotV, that they are designing units with far too much of a focus on creating absolute counters to one another. The reason that the immortal change is great is because it weakens it as a hard counter unit while generally giving it a buff against units it did not counter before, but one that is based on skill. Yet we see new units being introduced like the Herc that seemingly exist to hard counter things like bane-lings, that are extremely easy to execute (get in range select unit to latch). A big problem with Starcraft II as an RTS is its reliance on hard counters with massive DPS and high attack rates, combined with how quickly your production and econ can ramp up.
This creates situations where, with very little skill from a player (regardless of race, I'm serious!) you can take a fight and win it very decisively, only to allow it to snowball into a win off the back of rallied production. This is ultimately why we see a lot of NR15 matches that will end after one big engage because you have th econ and production to just flood afterwards, or god forbid hour long passive PvZs that end in a one sided engagement (because you can't engage cost effectively due to hard counters existing or even if you do, econ and production being so strong makes the advantages gained from cost effective trades intangible more often than not).
So how do you 'fix' Starcraft II? Well they answered a part of the problem with the mineral change, as it will force the player to spend more of their money (that otherwise would have gone to production ramp up) more frequently on securing expansions. But what we need is for players to be able to more effectively engage versus the other player while being able to use micro to gain advantage that is tangible, while also giving them more opportunities to preserve units in micro intensive ways. Also, there would be more action on the map if players didn't have to spend time diverting attention to mechanical requirements that perpetuate the snowball effect, op production, and so on.
- Reduce the attack rate slightly (moderately?) across the board, giving players more time to properly manage their units, allowing for more micro and preservation without as much 'lost' dps. Some units speed might have to be tweaked, or damage versus type, but y'know. Banelings would be stronger in this scenario, but maybe increasing their damage radius while lowering overall damage would help, forcing bigger splits to compensate.
- Take away needless macro mechanics like chrono boosts, and injects, and nerf mules slightly, giving them players more time to focus on harassment, engagements, and multipronged attacks without 'falling behind' as much in other areas. Part of the reason that SCII rewards passive play is because DPS is so high, that you advantages gained from micro don't outweigh the benefits of simply nailing all your injects and macro in the lead up and then getting that 'perfect' engage when your opponent can't possibly salvage the situation because he's dead by the time he starts controlling his first clump in response. This is also why so many games seem to come down to 1 strong 1 2 or 3 base push that rarely ends in a draw or a mere advantage without one or the other being 90% 'dead' even if they have not gg'd yet.
- Focus on creating unit advantages and further advantages gained through micro, not hard counters. Marines splitting properly against a lurker should be the counter, not a unit that happens to kill it 100% of the time just by clicking the move button'.
A lot of what we are talking about here wouldn't be as big of a deal if units weren't so amazing at moving into range and clumping, I mean in Brood war even when 200/200 armies clashed only a relatively small portion was engaging at a given time, but I digress.
Maybe I'm wrong, and don't get me wrong, I love SCII, and will play it forever, but I can't help but feel that the sequel series has constantly been trying to cover up and save face for mistakes that were made very early in basic design decisions of the games. So much of SCII has been trying to make a system that is not optimal work by way of creating more and more overly defined 'gimmick' units to try and address problems that exist because of deeper issues.
DIT2: the more I think about it the more I'm coming to think that the resource reduction won't actually solve the economy issues with the game. Maybe will talk about that in another post.
/team wet blanket ftw!
EDIT: Done. Overall really happy with their answers, though I do have a concern (well less of a concern and more of a design critique).
I feel like, even with some units in LotV, that they are designing units with far too much of a focus on creating absolute counters to one another. The reason that the immortal change is great is because it weakens it as a hard counter unit while generally giving it a buff against units it did not counter before, but one that is based on skill. Yet we see new units being introduced like the Herc that seemingly exist to hard counter things like bane-lings, that are extremely easy to execute (get in range select unit to latch). A big problem with Starcraft II as an RTS is its reliance on hard counters with massive DPS and high attack rates, combined with how quickly your production and econ can ramp up.
This creates situations where, with very little skill from a player (regardless of race, I'm serious!) you can take a fight and win it very decisively, only to allow it to snowball into a win off the back of rallied production. This is ultimately why we see a lot of NR15 matches that will end after one big engage because you have th econ and production to just flood afterwards, or god forbid hour long passive PvZs that end in a one sided engagement (because you can't engage cost effectively due to hard counters existing or even if you do, econ and production being so strong makes the advantages gained from cost effective trades intangible more often than not).
So how do you 'fix' Starcraft II? Well they answered a part of the problem with the mineral change, as it will force the player to spend more of their money (that otherwise would have gone to production ramp up) more frequently on securing expansions. But what we need is for players to be able to more effectively engage versus the other player while being able to use micro to gain advantage that is tangible, while also giving them more opportunities to preserve units in micro intensive ways. Also, there would be more action on the map if players didn't have to spend time diverting attention to mechanical requirements that perpetuate the snowball effect, op production, and so on.
- Reduce the attack rate slightly (moderately?) across the board, giving players more time to properly manage their units, allowing for more micro and preservation without as much 'lost' dps. Some units speed might have to be tweaked, or damage versus type, but y'know. Banelings would be stronger in this scenario, but maybe increasing their damage radius while lowering overall damage would help, forcing bigger splits to compensate.
- Take away needless macro mechanics like chrono boosts, and injects, and nerf mules slightly, giving them players more time to focus on harassment, engagements, and multipronged attacks without 'falling behind' as much in other areas. Part of the reason that SCII rewards passive play is because DPS is so high, that you advantages gained from micro don't outweigh the benefits of simply nailing all your injects and macro in the lead up and then getting that 'perfect' engage when your opponent can't possibly salvage the situation because he's dead by the time he starts controlling his first clump in response. This is also why so many games seem to come down to 1 strong 1 2 or 3 base push that rarely ends in a draw or a mere advantage without one or the other being 90% 'dead' even if they have not gg'd yet.
- Focus on creating unit advantages and further advantages gained through micro, not hard counters. Marines splitting properly against a lurker should be the counter, not a unit that happens to kill it 100% of the time just by clicking the move button'.
A lot of what we are talking about here wouldn't be as big of a deal if units weren't so amazing at moving into range and clumping, I mean in Brood war even when 200/200 armies clashed only a relatively small portion was engaging at a given time, but I digress.
Maybe I'm wrong, and don't get me wrong, I love SCII, and will play it forever, but I can't help but feel that the sequel series has constantly been trying to cover up and save face for mistakes that were made very early in basic design decisions of the games. So much of SCII has been trying to make a system that is not optimal work by way of creating more and more overly defined 'gimmick' units to try and address problems that exist because of deeper issues.
DIT2: the more I think about it the more I'm coming to think that the resource reduction won't actually solve the economy issues with the game. Maybe will talk about that in another post.
/team wet blanket ftw!
lovt will still be amazing
Rain joins mYinsanity, expects to attend many more foreign events in 2015.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/470916-myinsanity-signs-rain
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/470916-myinsanity-signs-rain
What region will he be playing in?
I have started trying out the new Lotv econ extension in customs, will report finding (also playing on the godly Bridgehead map, seriously might be the best SCII map ever made).
Random other features I would like to see in LotV
- separate MMR per race
- ability for users to create and manage tournaments (I think they said this would be coming after automated tournaments get working)
- ability for users to create separate user curated ladders with your own map pool and even extension mod applied if you want (will at least help map making community get some love as there would be a ladder or two that floats to the top based around community maps). That would also allow people to build and bring in 'brood war' 'starbow' ladders without Blizzard having to do anything but create the infrastructure to make it possible.
- Actually build the game around going f2p eventually with skins etc being a focus. They said that the engine problems aren't in 1v1 or 2v2 but once you go to 4v4. Well why not just disable opponents custom skins if they are playing a 4v4 game and it is calculated that it would cause performance issues.
I have started trying out the new Lotv econ extension in customs, will report finding (also playing on the godly Bridgehead map, seriously might be the best SCII map ever made).
Random other features I would like to see in LotV
- separate MMR per race
- ability for users to create and manage tournaments (I think they said this would be coming after automated tournaments get working)
- ability for users to create separate user curated ladders with your own map pool and even extension mod applied if you want (will at least help map making community get some love as there would be a ladder or two that floats to the top based around community maps). That would also allow people to build and bring in 'brood war' 'starbow' ladders without Blizzard having to do anything but create the infrastructure to make it possible.
- Actually build the game around going f2p eventually with skins etc being a focus. They said that the engine problems aren't in 1v1 or 2v2 but once you go to 4v4. Well why not just disable opponents custom skins if they are playing a 4v4 game and it is calculated that it would cause performance issues.
YesNOnoNOYes
Member
Hi hi :>
I didnt realise there is Community thread for SC2 <3 Thank you for link, Lethe! <3
I'm a lil zergling reporting for duty o7.
OK, now to reread a few back pages :>
*subscribes*
I didnt realise there is Community thread for SC2 <3 Thank you for link, Lethe! <3
I'm a lil zergling reporting for duty o7.
OK, now to reread a few back pages :>
*subscribes*
Man, Blizzcon..that was something. Felt very, I dont know, anticlimatic? Maybe it was just the constant delays and technical shit that sorta left a bad taste in my mouth. I probably over hyped it slightly as well, so its partially my own fault. The long gap in WCS seasons and lack of other tournies at the time ala DH's or IEMS or proleague etc as well made the wait seem even longer, so I had this pent up desire to watch SC2. Just seemed more like a huge miss when it had the potential to be incredible.
Anyways, another Blizzcon ends and now the new inevitable seasons will soon begin, so thats pretty exciting. Proleague is starting in December I think (?), and the new WCS seasons should hopefully begin in like Jan or Feb I would assume. Besides HSC and Hot Six cup starting in like a week, are their any tournies for the next month or so?
Anyways, another Blizzcon ends and now the new inevitable seasons will soon begin, so thats pretty exciting. Proleague is starting in December I think (?), and the new WCS seasons should hopefully begin in like Jan or Feb I would assume. Besides HSC and Hot Six cup starting in like a week, are their any tournies for the next month or so?
Sorry? In what way?
If the engine has problems, they should just put work into the engine, justify it however they want (Heroes using the same engine might give them some leeway), but this is one of their three tentpole IPs, treat it right!
I couldn't tell which I enjoyed more between BlizzCon 2013 and 2014. Both had amazing stories. The only real fantastic matches I could remember from 2013 was Bomber vs MMA and Jaedong vs Dear. The rest were all good but not great. With the 2014 Global Finals, we had Zest vs Life, TaeJa vs soO, and TaeJa vs Life. I think put 2014 ahead just because it was a feelgood story for Life that he just kept finding a way when everyone just kept doubting him. He also won all of his matches with superb play, sharp instincts and fun tactics, rather than resorting to gimmicks and cannon rush type of antics like sOs did in almost all of his matches. Definitely much more satisfying to see a 17 year prodigy of the past rise to greatness yet again after everybody pretty much forgot what an incredible player he was.
Don't forget DreamHack Winter and IEM San Jose!
And yeah, by the time all of that wraps up... new season of SPL!
When is IEM SJ? I'm actually gonna be in California next month
unknownstranger
Member
Also with daylight savings I'll be able to watch more of Proleague until Spring.
AdventureRacing
Member
The last few weeks playing numbers online have been way up. Today is probably the highest i've seen them in over a year and by quite a margin.
Pretty impressive for China considering how much the region has been ignored.
Pretty impressive for China considering how much the region has been ignored.
YesNOnoNOYes
Member
As a junior I can't make threads but I feel like this belongs in the gaming section.
WCS Global Finals 2014 just broke the online viewership record for SC2 (150k +)
http://www.fuzic.nl/events/4014-wcs-grand-finals/
YES, the stadium was FULL
DED GAM!
Not even counting all a lot of huge streams like
http://www.douyutv.com/scboy
The finals were probably 300k+
that's awesome
also thank you for welcome~
also cant wait for proleague <3
aaaa
oh fuck i remember the old maps were perfect swarm host vs siege tank games
fuck me
douyu tv numbers are inflated to all hell
its probably in the region of 200k
fuck me
douyu tv numbers are inflated to all hell
its probably in the region of 200k