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//: StarCraft II: Heart of the Swarm |OT| Like Riding a Bike

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Lethe82

Banned
My one concern right now is that while forcing micro is good, things like the disruptor and seige tank and potentially the new roach thing are all these abilities that deal massive massive damage and can get you way ahead (or win) for relatively little micro, or worse yet gimmicky play where it's just like 'well we've started the game' and then 'oh yeah here come two medivacs and two siege tanks' 'gg'.
 
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SamuraiX-

Member
DH Winter Playoffs are set:

xTPMd16.png


Polt vs ForGG, TaeJa vs JD and MMA vs MC...
5Lm6tNu.png


Funny how 8 Zergs were seeded into the group stage but only 2 managed to advance.

Meanwhile, 5/6 Terran and 5/6 Protoss advanced from the group stage. lmfao

Granted, guys like Leenock, TRUE, Sacsri, and Impact aren't nearly as elite as most of the Terran and Protoss that advanced. I did expect more of a better show from Solar and Snute though. :-/
 
L

Lethe82

Banned
3 ravagers shots clicked in a triangle pattern will still kill things pretty well, or significantly eat into Protoss shields/health to help in subsequent engagements. It will do this for an effect that is more pronounced and less expensive (mana and units lost for Zerg in process) than the old chain fungal ever did against anything that wasn't a sentry. With smart casting on Ravager we're not talking about 1 fungal 1 Ravager shot, you can spam that ability. It's not like it just procs an AOE DOT that doesn't stack (like Fungal). Every hit will do full DMG; 60 damage is still 60 damage, and combining the ability with fungal (or even without) will give Zerg more Zone control over an engagement than they ever had before.

Fungal also does 30 damage over 4 seconds, so unit hit by both will end up taking 90 damage over a short period of time, and that is a hypothetical 1 fungal, 1 ravager shot. Let's say a second shot this the same place 1 second after the first (or both hit at the same time), that's 150 damage from 1 infestor and two ravagers. That's half the damage of a Ghost Nuke (300 damage to units), and the ravager shots re-gens almost instantly.

I think we'll see Ravagers getting a lot of use. If not in ZvT, ZvP and ZvZ.

EDIT: Random thought: Immortal is now going to have an ability that can help protect it from emp and widow mines since it gains extra shields from the new active.
 
U

unknownstranger

Member
Lethe82 said:
3 ravagers shots clicked in a triangle pattern will still kill things pretty well, or significantly eat into Protoss shields/health to help in subsequent engagements. It will do this for an effect that is more pronounced and less expensive (mana and units lost for Zerg in process) than the old chain fungal ever did against anything that wasn't a sentry. With smart casting on Ravager we're not talking about 1 fungal 1 Ravager shot, you can spam that ability. It's not like it just procs an AOE DOT that doesn't stack (like Fungal). Every hit will do full DMG; 60 damage is still 60 damage, and combining the ability with fungal (or even without) will give Zerg more Zone control over an engagement than they ever had before.

Fungal also does 30 damage over 4 seconds, so unit hit by both will end up taking 90 damage over a short period of time, and that is a hypothetical 1 fungal, 1 ravager shot. Let's say a second shot this the same place 1 second after the first (or both hit at the same time), that's 150 damage from 1 infestor and two ravagers. That's half the damage of a Ghost Nuke (300 damage to units), and the ravager shots re-gens almost instantly.

I think we'll see Ravagers getting a lot of use. If not in ZvT, ZvP and ZvZ.

EDIT: Random thought: Immortal is now going to have an ability that can help protect it from emp and widow mines since it gains extra shields from the new active.
Click to expand...

Ravage/Infestor really wouldn't be that good against anything. Blink Stalker/Void Ray will destroy it mid game in ZvP. Also from what I've seen the Ravager ability doesn't have very much range. I think it only has around 6 which makes it hard to get near Colossi/Siege Tanks/etc to land them. In ZvZ it could be ok as a fungal + Ravager shot will kill a Hydralisk. In the others I can't see it being better than going Hydra's or Muta's instead of Infestor in mid game.
 
L

Lethe82

Banned
Early game there is no reason not to mass them (with some exceptions), later game you'll want some to cover retreats, preventing the opposing army from just flat out chasing you down from a bad engage, come in at odd angles to help chip away at the army (also forcing opposing army to micro, negating some dps). Ravager is crazy good in its Blizzcon form, it's not like you're going to just a move them in + corrosive bile and then say 'well I tried my best', they're not meant to be the head on fighter late game. Late game Zerg is going to have a ton of things to distract the other armies from immediately auto targeting Ravagers, even then they'll be busy dodging the skillshots.
 
L

Lethe82

Banned
Morph from roach only, costs 75/25.

Unit Name: Ravager
Health: 180
Weapon: Damage: 16 - Ground
Weapon Speed: 1.3
Range: 6
Armor: 1
Movement Speed: 2.75
Corrosive Bile: 40 (+40 armored) (apparently should be 60 flat)

Roach
145 HP
Weapon Damage: 16 Ground
Weapon Speed: 2
Range: 4
Armor: 1
Movement Speed: 2.25 (3 with Glial Reconstitution)

I don't think Ravagers get burrow regen, or burrow move

So they basically cost the same as two roaches for 1 less supply, a couple Ravagers is more than worth it imo, it will barely eat into your roach count and can do insane damage.
 
S

SamuraiX-

Member
Aaron said:
Only match Life lost is when he went swarm hosts. Still doesn't know how to use those darn things.
Click to expand...

Yeah, he needs to forget trying to be more dynamic in his playstyle and just stick with what works. He's arguably the best player in the damn world right now. Just keep using what got you there until someone proves they can beat you.

Also, I just have to applaud jjakji. I thought no way in hell he makes it out of the group stage in this tournament and then he gives MMA and Polt the business to get himself into the lower bracket and then follows it up with 3-2'ing MC and 3-0'ing MMA. I don't think First stands a chance against him so I say TaeJa vs jjakji in the losers semifinals. A Top 4 finish at DH Winter for jjakji to close out the year would be fantastic.

ALSO! I LOOOOVE this all Bo5 format in the Playoffs. Hasn't necessary mattered in most of the games played so far but this is the culmination of DreamHack Open 2014. Previously doing Bo3 matches in a playoff bracket? C'mon, son.
 
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Lethe82

Banned
I played a diamond level match with the fan alpha and the zerg literally made two seperate armies that he had going around the map, one was Ravager Hydra Infestor while the other was simply Swarm Hots.

I couldn't defend two places at once over the course of the game (Swarm spawns would fly until they reached a seige tank after all) and I couldn't effectively engage the Raverg Hydra Infestor army because of root fungal, that DPS buff ability, and then the ravagers just corrosive biling everything.

Granted, I tried to go mech to try out the new T units, but it did not work out well for me.

LotV Fan Alpha Patch 1.1
 
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SamuraiX-

Member
I don't think Life has ever played ForGG. It took him 3 games to realize that Hellion builds are this Terran's bread and butter. Regardless, really impressive showing from ForGG. I don't think anyone expect him or jjakji to reek so much havoc at this tournament.

Nimbus... Life, please don't throw away this deciding game by using Swarm Hosts...

Edit: This is in full game of throws mode... I don't think anybody wants to win. lol
 
S

survivor

Banned
Only managed to catch the last game but I'm surprised that Life didn't go SHs or Mutas. I guess he realized the moment this goes to super late game with Ravens he has no chance of winning.
 
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SamuraiX-

Member
Life vs TaeJa rematch in the lower bracket finals...

TaeJa trying to get cute in Game 1 with a ForGG opening then transitioning into bio. He was floating a constant 1500 minerals after that Hellbat/Marine timing got shut down. lol

He talks a big game that he's already thinking about the grand final with ForGG but this opening game already tells me he doesn't believe he can beat Life.


Edit: Yo... YO! Game 3 was the sickest of macro games. I love how Life never fully transitions from Ling/Bane/Muta into Ling/Bane/Ultra but just keeps producing Mutas too so he can continue to maintain map control while also rolling over TaeJa's army in those huge engagements.
 
C

calder

Member
That was pretty great win for Life.

I've missed so much, I think once this series is done I'll just wait and catch up on YouTube.
 
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SamuraiX-

Member
rofl TaeJa

the second he wandered all of his Medivacs over Life's army just before he was about the pounce, it was over.

TaeJa tried to get cute with Banshee openings this time around but you can tell he's not comfortable with them at all. I still give him respect for trying to switch things up a bit.

Life is slowly equaling the score between his greatest rival in the HotS era. TaeJa was 5-0 against him before BlizzCon. Now Life has taken three straight series against him in the past month.


I'm just gonna go balls deep and call a Life 4-0 against ForGG in the grand final. Life mentioned his headset was bothering him the entire series they played earlier and ForGG took him by surprise going mech 5 games in a row. I think ForGG's exhausted most his bag of tricks in TvZ. If Life doesn't legit throw away games, I might give ForGG one map.
 
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SamuraiX-

Member
LOL Artosis

"I want ForGG to win this so badly here. Very rarely do I ever want a player to win as much as I want ForGG to win here................. therefore, I predict Life to win."

Fully embracing that reverse curse. He's really playing with other worldly powers here. This should be good.
 
S

SamuraiX-

Member
As epic as this third game is, I feel like neither player deserves to win.

So many units just thrown away on both sides. Like gold league tier throws.

Life shouldn't have lost that game. Really disappointing.
 
S

SamuraiX-

Member
At least the curse is back in favor of Life. Artosis riding the hype train and calling the series already, talking about how reverse all kills never happen. lol

Life down 0-3? Not a problem.

Just make ForGG type FOUR "GGs"!
ymUq5EX.png
 
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SamuraiX-

Member
That's more like it.

dat muta switch doe

Life just needs to learn how to stop bleeding off Roaches/Hydras/Swarm Hosts like they're Zerglings. I know unit pathing is atrocious but he's thrown away so many chances at winning engagements because he looks careless in positioning his units.
 
S

SamuraiX-

Member
LIFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

These last two maps kinda suck for Zerg though. He needs to do a Roach/Bane bust on one of them at least. Standard macro probably won't cut it and Life would be banking on ForGG messing up to take a win.
 
L

Lethe82

Banned
I've always been a ForGG fan, great to see him break through and win a Dreamhack! His last tournament win was 6 years ago in BroodWar, congratulations ForGG!
 
S

SamuraiX-

Member
Well, damn. Desperation mind game tech switches. Life looked in prime position to send it to a Game 7 but that Overseer scout to find the 6 Barracks came too late.

Congrats to ForGG on his first SC2 championship. Awesome way to end 2014 and go into 2015 for him.

And congrats to Artosis for finally harnessing the power of his curse.
 
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