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//: StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty |OT4| Everyone Else Would Beat Catspajamas

Keikaku

Member
Keikaku you are so well mannered it makes me fucking sick.
It's what I do :D

Just thought i'd say that if you've been out of SC2 and GSL for a while this probably sounds very misleading. This isn't like the old code A, now only the top 8 get to stay in code S so dropping down to code A is nowhere near as bad.
Good point and one I should have made. Sorry!

EDIT: Sorry for the spoilers :eek: I'll edit it out.
 

vnhfremen

Neo Member
Hi guys!

I'd like your opinions on 2v2 as a ZZ team. I feel it's super hard to survive past the 8 minutes mark. We used to push at 6 minutes with some roaches and speedlings but lately it seems every terran makes hellions (ruining the ling runby when the roaches breach the wall) or we get drowned in lings on one base if there's a zerg on the other team. We are also too scared to let any toss push first as it usually results in a 4 gate + whatever the other race can contribute and it seems so difficult to cover all bases in 2v2...

Basically, any suggestions for good openers as a double zerg team ?
 

Spl1nter

Member
Hi guys!

I'd like your opinions on 2v2 as a ZZ team. I feel it's super hard to survive past the 8 minutes mark. We used to push at 6 minutes with some roaches and speedlings but lately it seems every terran makes hellions (ruining the ling runby when the roaches breach the wall) or we get drowned in lings on one base if there's a zerg on the other team. We are also too scared to let any toss push first as it usually results in a 4 gate + whatever the other race can contribute and it seems so difficult to cover all bases in 2v2...

Basically, any suggestions for good openers as a double zerg team ?

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/ZZ_Strategy

one person roaches, another ling/bling seems like a pretty solid early game.

The real key is scouting and cohesiveness.
 

vnhfremen

Neo Member
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/ZZ_Strategy

one person roaches, another ling/bling seems like a pretty solid early game.

To be honest, our current strategy is based on the content of that link. It does work ok when we spawn relatively close, but if we are somewhat far the roaches are just to slow to apply any pressure. By the time they are there the wall in is usually good enough to hold with minimal losses. We do not have banelings though, it's so gas intensive so early in the game...
 

vnhfremen

Neo Member
Me and my friend did 8 double 6 pools in a row the other day. I felt like such a dick. Won 7 times though.

We are in silver. Most of our victims seemed to be in gold though.

Ahh yes. Gold players are fun because even though they can do good pushes, they often cannot deal with anything that would disturb their build. Sometime a good ol' all-in makes everything right again. It's actually a good suggestion, it's not common so it might still work.
 

Striek

Member
Small patch, huge changes.

Snipe nerf its hard to say, it feels too big numerically (6>10 against BLs), but snipe vs. zerg was the last thing left in the game that was just flatout broken. Its going to have a huge impact on a lot of terrans playstyles. The Mule on gold nerf is kind've meh, good but not that big a deal.

That phoenix change is too big, mutas were only barely able to get shots off as is when phoenixes gave chase and the mutas attacked before the phoenixes could turn around (slow acceleration). With two extra range it seems to me it will be stupidly easy to kite the mutas endlessly and give chase without fear of the mutas been able to turn around and hit the phoenixes, since you no longer have to get the phoenixes up close to the mutas to begin with.

I'd rather them test 5 range phoenixes, no upgrade, and see if thats enough against mutas and whether it helps opening phoenix in PvT be more viable (because its fun to play and watch others play phoenix vs. terran).
 

Spl1nter

Member
Snipe nerf its hard to say, it feels too big numerically (6>10 against BLs), but snipe vs. zerg was the last thing left in the game that was just flatout broken. Its going to have a huge impact on a lot of terrans playstyles.

I dont think something that was equal economically is flat out broken. Just makes it harder for terran to deal with tech transitions which is already their major weakness. Thank god we still got marines because when you make all those vikings for broodlords and the zerg switches to zerglings/ultra those vikings are doing jack shit.

The raven must be the most underutilized unit in the game.
 

fanboi

Banned
I dont think something that was equal economically is flat out broken. Just makes it harder for terran to deal with tech transitions which is already their major weakness. Thank god we still got marines because when you make all those vikings for broodlords and the zerg switches to zerglings/ultra those vikings are doing jack shit.

The raven must be the most underutilized unit in the game.

If a Zerg switch to ultras it is either:

1) You are so far ahead and you want your opponent co catch up

2) If terran has gone 200 sup in vikings.

whatever the outcome, zerg lose.
 

MrKnives

Member
I used to be a huge starcraft fan from the release of SC2 to the end of summer 2011. Since then I kind have stopped watching the GSL and MLGs. How are they right now? Things still cool? Game fun? I'm thinking of getting back into SC2 soon. How is Zerg in the metagame right now? Nestea still boss or no?

Zerg is the new imba, except in korea where Terran still rules. But if you ask the people on forums it's still those pesky Protoss. So basically nothing has changed, people still like to argue.
Also Nestea still the boss but now there are just other bosses too. He isn't as dominant as he used to be but people still consider him top tier. I'm sure there are exceptions to that too.
 

fanboi

Banned
Zerg is the new imba, except in korea where Terran still rules. But if you ask the people on forums it's still those pesky Protoss. So basically nothing has changed, people still like to argue.
Also Nestea still the boss but now there are just other bosses too. He isn't as dominant as he used to be but people still consider him top tier. I'm sure there are exceptions to that too.

Tastosis alt account!?

Also, why you not on MSN?
 

Striek

Member
Happy those zvt late game issues are being solved by blizzard.

sQQ2X.png
Missed this.

I'm not convinced you can draw conclusions about early or late game balance in the matchup from this. The same source indicates that zerg has a 100% winrate against protoss in games that are under 5 minutes long. ZvP early game in dire need of fixing?

No, it fails to take into account that while 100% of wins <5mins in ZvP are early pools, way more early pools probably failed completely and the toss was ahead and killed the zerg soon afterward, or the game evened out, or gave the zerg an advantage he built on later, but the statistics hide these.

I can think of a very simple, non-balance reason why terrans might tend to win more earlier in TvZ and zergs more later, and its got everything to do with what each race tends to do after getting ahead/behind, and nothing to do with one race been better than than the other at different points in the matchup.

So yeah, like every other statistic on anything ever, its possible to misinterpet these win % vs. time to mean things they don't.
 

Spl1nter

Member
I feel like not enough people use them, I love them they provide so much extra utility. Plus it's silly how often terran rely on scan/turrets for detection.

In general, their build time, high gas and eliminating the possibility for medivacs/vikings make them difficult to produce. Terran production constraints make it difficult to build up a sizeable force in the late game. Therefore they get placed into a more mid game timing push role if utilized. TvT is the exception they should be utilized more often, but probably not a good idea to mass them because of the strength of emp and how air units stack.
 
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