people who dont think ZvZ is best mirror do not know how to play ZvZ and are just win farms for their betters.
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//: StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty |OT4| Everyone Else Would Beat Catspajamas
- Thread starter Corran Horn
- Start date
people who dont think ZvZ is best mirror do not know how to play ZvZ and are just win farms for their betters.
While it isn't a bad mirror, but it is faaaaaaaaar from the best mirror.
TvT >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ZvZ Z PvP
come back to us hugo! you can play zerg if you want!
Where'd all the race hate come from? I never remembered it playing BW. I'm a human/Terran through and through all of Blizzard's games (WCII, BW, WCIII, SC2) because their generic "middle-of-the-road" play style has always mirrored my natural tendencies.
Now you can't browse the Battle.net forums without getting a "X race is for scrubs", alternating roughly with each patch.
Now you can't browse the Battle.net forums without getting a "X race is for scrubs", alternating roughly with each patch.
did you play sc:vanilla?
But Protoss is for scrubs
even in brood war! hardest thing about protoss was walling a forge expand.
I'm gonna jump in here with a question if I may:
in beta I spent ton of time watching replays, husky, hd etc. Then I preordered game and loved it, well loved it more then played it. I watched all day9 videos, stayed up until 4-5am to watch heh, followed everything on the scene etc etc.
I was in our little channel on irc too and in first neogaf tournament(release one) under different name and it was all good, except I never really got into playing the game.
For same reason as dota, it felt really complicated, like I need to spend too much time learning(which I didn't have), and I'd be competing with people that will crush me who play this as a job or lot more then me. I know, different ladders, but I felt if I couldn't be good it wasn't worth playing.
But now, I started playing dota 2 and loving it, lots of trial and error, learning and it's fun and I feel like I could go back to SC2 and try it finally, I want to actually. Do my placement matches at last!
So beside /livejournaling here I wanted to ask, what's the best way to get back into the game?
I know some basics but I'm still complete noob. I'm gonna rewatch some day9s videos about mechanics and newbie tuesdays, then practice builds with that mod whose name I forgot and then play hard bot(is that still the way to go?), and when I get it all after week or two try my luck online, probably bronze league first
Also, I always played protoss for no reason besides that I felt they're cool, had to pick favorite one out of them and never gave others a try. Should I focus on just one or try/practice them all? Maybe playing protoss isn't suited for me.
Some tips please
Edit: I remember some of my problems from practice with friends. I remember the build, I practice it and execute it well but I react poorly to changes, I'm good at just building ton of shit, upgrading etc but no map control, harass etc. Had same problem in AoE2 when I was little, I spend way too much time upgrading and improving stuff and then get stomped by enemies army.
in beta I spent ton of time watching replays, husky, hd etc. Then I preordered game and loved it, well loved it more then played it. I watched all day9 videos, stayed up until 4-5am to watch heh, followed everything on the scene etc etc.
I was in our little channel on irc too and in first neogaf tournament(release one) under different name and it was all good, except I never really got into playing the game.
For same reason as dota, it felt really complicated, like I need to spend too much time learning(which I didn't have), and I'd be competing with people that will crush me who play this as a job or lot more then me. I know, different ladders, but I felt if I couldn't be good it wasn't worth playing.
But now, I started playing dota 2 and loving it, lots of trial and error, learning and it's fun and I feel like I could go back to SC2 and try it finally, I want to actually. Do my placement matches at last!
So beside /livejournaling here I wanted to ask, what's the best way to get back into the game?
I know some basics but I'm still complete noob. I'm gonna rewatch some day9s videos about mechanics and newbie tuesdays, then practice builds with that mod whose name I forgot and then play hard bot(is that still the way to go?), and when I get it all after week or two try my luck online, probably bronze league first
Also, I always played protoss for no reason besides that I felt they're cool, had to pick favorite one out of them and never gave others a try. Should I focus on just one or try/practice them all? Maybe playing protoss isn't suited for me.
Some tips please
Edit: I remember some of my problems from practice with friends. I remember the build, I practice it and execute it well but I react poorly to changes, I'm good at just building ton of shit, upgrading etc but no map control, harass etc. Had same problem in AoE2 when I was little, I spend way too much time upgrading and improving stuff and then get stomped by enemies army.
I'm gonna jump in here with a question if I may:
in beta I spent ton of time watching replays, husky, hd etc. Then I preordered game and loved it, well loved it more then played it. I watched all day9 videos, stayed up until 4-5am to watch heh, followed everything on the scene etc etc.
I was in our little channel on irc too and in first neogaf tournament(release one) under different name and it was all good, except I never really got into playing the game.
For same reason as dota, it felt really complicated, like I need to spend too much time learning(which I didn't have), and I'd be competing with people that will crush me who play this as a job or lot more then me. I know, different ladders, but I felt if I couldn't be good it wasn't worth playing.
But now, I started playing dota 2 and loving it, lots of trial and error, learning and it's fun and I feel like I could go back to SC2 and try it finally, I want to actually. Do my placement matches at last!
So beside /livejournaling here I wanted to ask, what's the best way to get back into the game?
I know some basics but I'm still complete noob. I'm gonna rewatch some day9s videos about mechanics and newbie tuesdays, then practice builds with that mod whose name I forgot and then play hard bot(is that still the way to go?), and when I get it all after week or two try my luck online, probably bronze league first
Also, I always played protoss for no reason besides that I felt they're cool, had to pick favorite one out of them and never gave others a try. Should I focus on just one or try/practice them all? Maybe playing protoss isn't suited for me.
Some tips please
Edit: I remember some of my problems from practice with friends. I remember the build, I practice it and execute it well but I react poorly to changes, I'm good at just building ton of shit, upgrading etc but no map control, harass etc. Had same problem in AoE2 when I was little, I spend way too much time upgrading and improving stuff and then get stomped by enemies army.
It's called splinter school. Its harsh, demeaning and difficult but if you survive you will have the mechanics to play and feel more confident about reacting to change.
splinter does teach you how to think good in starcraft.
PhoenixDark
Banned
It is stupid. If I drone I get hit with timing attack, if I hit with timing attack they beat it and get ahead. If I take too long two base muta comes super fast
so timing attacks work on you.
and timings attacks can be held against you.
but the problem is not you.
i love zvz, i want to help other people love zvz, why wont you let me help you? ;_;
PhoenixDark
Banned
I know I suck at it, I'm saying it doesn't make sense. Usually I can look at a ZvP loss and see what went wrong; maybe the toss was just better than me, but usually I see bad scouting, too many roaches, etc. With ZvT it's usually too many drones, or not enough pressure
ZvZ doesnt work like that. I can't think about timings because most likely some cheese is coming and you can't tell. Hence me often leaving games ASAP
the only build that can catch me offguard is 12pool speedling [since a big tenant of what i do relies on having speed up fast] and how often do you see that?
send your first overlord in the direction your natural ramp faces on rotational symetrical maps.
send your second the opposite way.
send your third towards the center.
9 overlord
14 gas
drone
14 pool
drone
overlord
pull 2 drones off gas at 100
3 ling sets/speed
queen
1 more ling set [you should have 4eggs with lings just before your first 3 eggs pop]
Has your overlord seen another overlord? if yes, go to enemy base.
if no, assume cross spawns and go!
while your lings are traveling, build optional 5th set of lings, hatchery at natural, inject, build an overlord.
your speed WILL finish faster than the speed of any baneling oriented build. you WILL scout the presence or absence of a hatchery, you WILL scout the presence of a baneling nest or warren, against hatch first you WILL pressure large ling production and regain tempo.
From there, you have a combination of two of these things: 1). faster speed 2). more lings 3). more production no matter what build you see, you will have two of those things or be equal vs the exact same build.
if he's doing one base bane, laugh. keep your lings around his front, never engaging. get bane nest of your own, send lings in to see if he's given up aggression to expand [inwhichcase you're ahead by default], build a spine in your main and either collect free win when he basetrades with you [you have more lings and you start closer to his base] or just sit back on a natural production advantage.
it's eZ. i do it in every single ZvZ on every map.
Yep, I do the exact same thing. Granted I mostly play vs platinum zergs, but if I see a hatch first it's pretty much a free win because as long as I get there reasonably quickly he won't have a chance of defending it, which makes my own hatch finish faster than his, plus the fact that I have more units.the only build that can catch me offguard is 12pool speedling [since a big tenant of what i do relies on having speed up fast] and how often do you see that?
send your first overlord in the direction your natural ramp faces on rotational symetrical maps.
send your second the opposite way.
send your third towards the center.
9 overlord
14 gas
drone
14 pool
drone
overlord
pull 2 drones off gas at 100
3 ling sets/speed
queen
1 more ling set [you should have 4eggs with lings just before your first 3 eggs pop]
Has your overlord seen another overlord? if yes, go to enemy base.
if no, assume cross spawns and go!
while your lings are traveling, build optional 5th set of lings, hatchery at natural, inject, build an overlord.
your speed WILL finish faster than the speed of any baneling oriented build. you WILL scout the presence or absence of a hatchery, you WILL scout the presence of a baneling nest or warren, against hatch first you WILL pressure large ling production and regain tempo.
From there, you have a combination of two of these things: 1). faster speed 2). more lings 3). more production no matter what build you see, you will have two of those things or be equal vs the exact same build.
if he's doing one base bane, laugh. keep your lings around his front, never engaging. get bane nest of your own, send lings in to see if he's given up aggression to expand [inwhichcase you're ahead by default], build a spine in your main and either collect free win when he basetrades with you [you have more lings and you start closer to his base] or just sit back on a natural production advantage.
it's eZ. i do it in every single ZvZ on every map.
If I manage to force a cancel (which I almost always do), I can assume his economy will be in shambles, or if not, his units will be in very small numbers. I just put up some spines at my natural and go lair into roaches with speed and +1 timing, and it's done. Gotta keep a watch of his ling production though, if he gets way too many of them up after the hatch cancel you might be in some trouble if you overdroned. Also watch out for some crazy 1-base muta all-in, which you might die to if you don't prepare for or scout it.
Corran Horn
May the Schwartz be with you
Ask terrans from bw how much they like protoss and DTs.
I guess I just play vs some really bad zergs then, it works 90% of the time. He'll have fewer lings and maybe a queen, so I just keep rallying lings until it goes down.
a cancel and a kill are different things! [although you shouldnt be able to do either]
the big thing with hatch first is that there's a 30second window where his ling production greatly exceeds your own before speed gets up, so i try to avoid taking big gambles unless i see drones popping out of eggs when i get there.
DTs were so much deadlier if they sent 2 to each Comsat Station you had and took them out before you could even realize you needed scan. Without turrets, it's GG after that.
I'm gonna jump in here with a question if I may:
in beta I spent ton of time watching replays, husky, hd etc. Then I preordered game and loved it, well loved it more then played it. I watched all day9 videos, stayed up until 4-5am to watch heh, followed everything on the scene etc etc.
I was in our little channel on irc too and in first neogaf tournament(release one) under different name and it was all good, except I never really got into playing the game.
For same reason as dota, it felt really complicated, like I need to spend too much time learning(which I didn't have), and I'd be competing with people that will crush me who play this as a job or lot more then me. I know, different ladders, but I felt if I couldn't be good it wasn't worth playing.
But now, I started playing dota 2 and loving it, lots of trial and error, learning and it's fun and I feel like I could go back to SC2 and try it finally, I want to actually. Do my placement matches at last!
So beside /livejournaling here I wanted to ask, what's the best way to get back into the game?
I know some basics but I'm still complete noob. I'm gonna rewatch some day9s videos about mechanics and newbie tuesdays, then practice builds with that mod whose name I forgot and then play hard bot(is that still the way to go?), and when I get it all after week or two try my luck online, probably bronze league first
Also, I always played protoss for no reason besides that I felt they're cool, had to pick favorite one out of them and never gave others a try. Should I focus on just one or try/practice them all? Maybe playing protoss isn't suited for me.
Some tips please
Edit: I remember some of my problems from practice with friends. I remember the build, I practice it and execute it well but I react poorly to changes, I'm good at just building ton of shit, upgrading etc but no map control, harass etc. Had same problem in AoE2 when I was little, I spend way too much time upgrading and improving stuff and then get stomped by enemies army.
Best way to start playing is to just pick a race, pick a basic build order , get in the neogaf channel, and play some games. A bunch of gaffers are online Wednesdays so swing by then to.
Corran Horn
May the Schwartz be with you
Good for killer
Get splinter to teach you to play in a 1v1 tutorial.
I got the SC BattleChest, so I dunno what I was playing at the time--I think it was '99 or 2000.
I miss big game manuals and stories that didn't get retconed with WoL, though.
i was just wondering how a terran who may have played vanilla sc1 could have missed the balance tears from that era.
OrangeYouGlad
Banned
This. In the 3 rapings Spl1nter gave me, which I will repay in physical form next weekend, he gave me quite a lot of tips on where I'm going wrong. My biggest issue is keeping macro at the forefront of everything I do and he gave me some tips on how to expand while creating units to do so. It definitely helps to be humbled once and awhile.
Also, don't try to do what you watch. It will only hurt more when you lose.
PhoenixDark
Banned
One of my biggest complaints about BNet is that your ladder never feels like an actual division. You often play people outside of the division and there's no way to know your record against specific people within your division.
If someone beats me twice in a row on ladder, I'd love to get some type of "you're being dominated!" message or icon like in TF2. Basically: rival icons to determine who you're actually competing with. Right now I just ladder and get a host of opponents I don't recognize. If there was actual competition I bet people would message each other more, get practice partners, etc.
I'd also like to see custom ladders, where you can create a ladder featuring up to 50 players or so with a map pool you choose as well. So if some GAFers wanted to challenge some Reddit dudes we could create a ladder, set up parameters for the clans (so GAFers don't win up facing GAFers and vise versa), and duke it out to see which site has the most players in the top ten after a week.
If someone beats me twice in a row on ladder, I'd love to get some type of "you're being dominated!" message or icon like in TF2. Basically: rival icons to determine who you're actually competing with. Right now I just ladder and get a host of opponents I don't recognize. If there was actual competition I bet people would message each other more, get practice partners, etc.
I'd also like to see custom ladders, where you can create a ladder featuring up to 50 players or so with a map pool you choose as well. So if some GAFers wanted to challenge some Reddit dudes we could create a ladder, set up parameters for the clans (so GAFers don't win up facing GAFers and vise versa), and duke it out to see which site has the most players in the top ten after a week.
Won't happen. Blizzard doesn't give a shit about you once you pay for their game.
ZvZ gurus, what do you think of this build? It seems similar to what Panda posted above.
Derp forgot the link.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=310142
AdventureRacing
Member
What devs outside of maybe valve support their games as much as blizzard post release?
I expect better from Blizzard because they were there once.
Corran Horn
May the Schwartz be with you
Outside of WoW what has blizzard really done besides balance patches? I dont really consider WoW because every MMO dev. generally supports their game well with updates. I guess you can argue Blizzard has help push the esports scene but I honestly have no idea what they do in the background and it appears they do more to stall it than help it in the public lol.
PhoenixDark
Banned
Blizz's WoW support is also a bit questionable. End game play is boring for most people, and has been the same old stale stuff for awhile. I've pretty much stopped playing because there's not much to do.
I dont really approve of flood builds and the fact that this builds speed was equivalently timed with a hatch firsts speed makes me think i'd probably just run over anyone doing tangs build.
CD Projekt
Thanks for the tips guys, gonna get to reading tonight and practicing tomorrow, played bit too much dota and batman today
I can take over your DotA2 account if you need help focusing on SC2.CD Projekt
Thanks for the tips guys, gonna get to reading tonight and practicing tomorrow, played bit too much dota and batman today
i want too man; but don't want to at the same time.
And HoTS beta should be out soon, no?
Corran Horn
May the Schwartz be with you
could be worse. could be me watching panda vs pd.
you missed pure infestor basetrading with roach/hydra/muta
Corran Horn
May the Schwartz be with you
Was trying to figure out why MW3 wasnt loading properly. Realized it was mumble that was breaking the game.
PhoenixDark
Banned
Admit it Panda, I destroyed you in that first game lololol
you told me to do a 14/14 build on close air metal, what did you expect to happen?
PhoenixDark
Banned
I'd tell you the moral of the story but you'd ignore it like Apple Jack. gg!
Corran Horn
May the Schwartz be with you
Some days I want to destroy this slingbox...
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The Alex Smith of Internet connections.Some days I want to destroy this slingbox...
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