Awesome Animals
Member
Top Scorer right here! All you needed was to instill some new blood into that USA team to guide them to victory!
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//: StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty |OT4| Everyone Else Would Beat Catspajamas
- Thread starter Corran Horn
- Start date
So, pretty much every single ZvP ends in me losing my third and then doing some aggression but not enough damage. The other matchups I still do fine in, but this ZvP just doesn't work.
I'm trying to do the stephano-esque build with a fast third, but I really don't know how to handle early aggression at all, as it seems that you want to delay units but I really don't have any ideas of the timings anymore.
I'm trying to do the stephano-esque build with a fast third, but I really don't know how to handle early aggression at all, as it seems that you want to delay units but I really don't have any ideas of the timings anymore.
learn the timings and have good scouting. Then the matchup becomes stupidly easy at levels below masters. (Cant comment on masters zvp)
My latest ZvP loss was against a masters player who just mass zealoted me on 2 base (after FFE) and won with that... I'm just not good at reading the visual cues in the matchup anymore I guess...
It's annoying when one your matchups is significantly worse than the others, which nets you very few good games in just that matchup...
A common toss tactic I noticed is harassing your third as soon as they get warp tech and warp in pure zealots. The way I've been countering it is scouting for proxy pylons near your third and taking it out with zerglings while building spines all around. If you're following Stephano's build you'll have more than enough minerals to supply spines. Not sure what happens during masters but a lot of early pressure can be held off with a lot of spines, zerglings, and some roaches.
Sounds exactly what I'm dealing with, and you're raising some good points!
What this means however is that I gotta take my third even quicker to get those spines up in time, but it's obviously worth to sacrifice some economy to not lose outright
edit: and yes! constantly trying to improve my pylon detection and ling scouting, it feels more important than ever to do that
You can have roaches by the time warpgate is done after FFE. Almost every zerg I play does the same ("Stephano") build because oh how easy and strong it is. Third hatch on like 24 supply, pure drones after 4 lings to about 40 supply, 4 extractors, roach warren, evo all at once whilst continuing to drone, mass roaches at about 60 supply when roach warren finishes. Lair, roach speed, delay toss third and/or kill any toss aggression, switch to mutas. The only time they don't do this is when they go 7 pool.
Did he do 9/10 gate zealot only with proxy pylon? You have to scout these sort of all-ins. Once you have scouting down you win with the current meta game.
Ok, thanks, I'll see how that works out compared to what I'm doing currently!
No, he ffe:d and did a two base timing with mass zealots and I outright died!
Here is a pretty good example of the stephano style. He maxes in 11 minutes.
http://www.twitch.tv/mstephano/b/314721898
http://www.twitch.tv/mstephano/b/314721898
Ok, thanks, I'll see how that works out compared to what I'm doing currently!
No, he ffe:d and did a two base timing with mass zealots and I outright died!
Sorry a bit confusing, thats what I meant, as in 9 to 10 gateways and pure zealot. They stop collecting gas. Its the evolution of the original korean 4gate!
Gas scouting is extremely important in the match up.
Thanks a lot, I'll watch that and look up some other examples as well
Its just important to note there that stephano changes his build to be more greedy based on knowing there is 4 gas.
Hmm, cool...
Is there any specific timing the gases on the expansion usually go up? and does anyone know what maps it isn't safe to send your overlord to your opponents base like that?
First 2 gases are always 6 mins. Other gases depend on scouting information, but usually 2 more gases taken around 7-7:30. Think almost any map you can get good scout position like that. With FFE there isnt any units to kill your ovies for quite a while.
guys...
eve is now master.
oh and fuck zerg
200/200 at 11min, seems balanced
Is that just roaches and lings? Wouldn't scouting and some air units or more cannons have made that 200/200 go straight to shit?
its stephano, u'd lose anyway
nope, immortals good unit and ff good ability.
OrangeYouGlad
Banned
I just realized the only times I've played SC2 in the past 2 weeks is GAF Night. Thought I'd let you all know how special you are.
Go play now
Awesome Animals
Member
I just realized that in the past six months the only times I've played SC2 is during GAF Night.
OrangeYouGlad
Banned
Corran Horn
May the Schwartz be with you
Interesting to finally see wolf do more stuff outside Korea. Dude deserves it. Incontrol doing less and less tournaments now.
Corran Horn
May the Schwartz be with you
Top scorer means shit without an awesome setup. There is a reason why splinter wanted to include California in Canada!
Awesome Animals
Member
But I was the set-up man. I meant point total, not goal tally. I only had one goal.
demosthenes
Member
GAF, I am in need of assistance.
I have a decent internet connection, do you think I could host 4 people at my place playing SC2? I have no idea about the bandwidth requirements.
I have a decent internet connection, do you think I could host 4 people at my place playing SC2? I have no idea about the bandwidth requirements.
Yoshichan
And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
Yes.
What if they, idk, all in me early or cheese?
demosthenes
Member
Ty Yoshi, good, happening tomorrow, I'm excited :3
Yoshichan
And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
OrangeYouGlad
Banned
Just be sure nothing else is going on on your network. I have a 28Mb connection and when I had 3 other people running SC2 there were some hitches here and there. None of the other games we played online had any issues, but it seems the netcode for SC2 is hyper sensitive to other stuff being connected while multiple people connect to Battle.net.
demosthenes
Member
Yea, it would be nice, hopefully they give it back to us. I only started w/ SC2 so it doesn't hit me as much but yea I still want it
I'll keep this in mind, thanks.
PhoenixDark
Banned
Sounds exactly what I'm dealing with, and you're raising some good points!
What this means however is that I gotta take my third even quicker to get those spines up in time, but it's obviously worth to sacrifice some economy to not lose outright
edit: and yes! constantly trying to improve my pylon detection and ling scouting, it feels more important than ever to do that
As Jason said, it's very important to get a spine down asap. Despite your best scouting, a good toss can often sneak a pylon somewhere, especially on a map like Cloud Kingdom. Two spines wouldn't be a bad idea either
btw here's a more detailed look at Stephano's build
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=324733
Meeting - or at least coming close to - the drone benchmarks is key.
This is only for FFE Protosses... which is 85% of all matches against them.
OrangeYouGlad
Banned
I never FFE. I go straight for a mothership. Every. fucking. time.
PhoenixDark
Banned
I did it against a Toss who didn't expand, just to see what would happen. He did a one base Colosus rush lol
I'd love to practice it against one base rushes, seems dangerous as fuck but if it works you're golden
brofist.jpg
Corran Horn
May the Schwartz be with you
Slowly banning all the Swedes. Yoshi is next.
From the DotA2 thread. Bunch of HoN-gaf got banned
PhoenixDark
Banned
Thankfully for you, I'm a law abiding citizen