Starfield designer says procedural generation stopped it from reaching the “calibre” of Fallout and Elder Scrolls

LectureMaster

Has Man Musk


Bethesda Game Studios Starfield has taken a lot of hit from gamers in the two years since it released. Coming after the release of Fallout 4 and after the still-beloved Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim, it's fair to say that the introduction of something brand-new from Bethesda came with a lot of expectations from fans.

To this day, Starfield has its fans, and it's understandable why: just like how no fantasy RPG is quite like Skyrim, there is no sci-fi RPG quite like Starfield. However, a large portion of gamers have maligned the game for failing to meet the expectations that players had for a new Bethesda Game Studios product, and that's also fair.

Speaking on an episode of the FRVR Podcast launching later this week (when I get around to it), former Starfield systems designer Bruce Nesmith—who left the project around a year before release—explained that Bethesda's sci-fi RPG is still a "good game", but it's clear that the game didn't latch on as well as other games from the beloved developer.


"I think it's a good game," Nesmith told us. "I don't think it's in the same calibre as the other two, you know, Fallout or Skyrim, or Elder Scrolls rather, but I think it's a good game. I worked on it, I'm proud of the work I did. I'm proud of the work that the people I knew did on it. I think they made a great game."

"When the planets start to feel very samey and you don't start to feel the excitement on the planets, that's to me where it falls apart.

Bruce Nesmith on Starfield's procedural generation
Nesmith, who has since published multiple books such as Mischief Maker and the Glory Seeker series since his departure from the studio, explained that there are "expectations" when "the studio that gave you Skyrim and Fallout makes a space game" that simply weren't met, and that's impossible to deny.

"If the same game had been released by not Bethesda, it would have been received differently," Nesmith said, explaining that the game still isn't a failure despite the fact that it hasn't latched on as well as prior Bethesda games. At the end of the day, it sold well, got an expansion, has a still-active modding community and has a decent daily play count for a single-player RPG.


As for why Starfield didn't latch on as well as other games, Nesmith explained he "leans towards procedural generation" as the big problem instead of other complaints like the lack of real-time space travel.

unearthed-nasa-mission-starfield-1024x576.jpg

The main mission Unearthed, a mission set in a specifically designed area, shows Starfield at its best, focusing on discovery, and it's amazing. While the game may be unfocused, there are moments of brilliance.


"I'm an enormous space fan, I'm an amateur astronomer, I'm up on all that stuff, a lot of the work I did on Starfield was on the astronomical data," he explained, "but space in inherently boring. It's literally described as nothingness. So moving throughout that isn't where the excitement is, in my opinion.

"But when the planets start to feel very samey and you don't start to feel the excitement on the planets, that's to me where it falls apart. I was also disappointed when, pretty much, the only serious enemy you fought were people… there's lots of cool alien creatures, but they're like the wolves in Skyrim. They're just there, they don't contribute, you don't have the variety of serious opponents that are story generators."



Starfield seems set for its second DLC as Bethesda also continues working on The Elder Scrolls 6

As someone who has put well over 200 hours into Starfield, Bethesda's sci-fi game is quite good, but it is a step down from what the studio is known for. Unfortunately, for many, the heavy use of procedural generation simply takes away from what Bethesda is known for: beautiful, hand-crafted environments that tell a story as well as their characters do.

There are parts of Starfield that do this spectacularly well, such as the main quest where you go back to the ravaged remains of Earth, but you have to hunt hard for them, and that's where the game struggles. Maybe, if Starfield 2 ever happens, these problems will be addressed.
 
Yeah, the procedural content definitely didn't help, but the bespoke missions weren't very good either.

Bethesda has just gotten worse with having lots of lore and window dressing for its world, but not enough on building interesting moments within it for the player to go through.

It's weird how they went from Fallout 4 where they kinda acknowledged the need to make their worlds smaller, but then with this game just go massive with copy-pasta locations.
 
He's right but that's just one of many reasons why Starfield is a lesser experience than TES and Fallout.

The game lacks soul. It's so unspectacular.

The RPG systems are completely uninteresting. When you finish Fallout NV, you immediately want to make a new character and have a completely different experience. That's not really possible in Starfield because of how lacking everything is, from story to characters to builds. The game puts you in a box that limits your freedom.
 
Game is great until you hit a brick wall at full speed and realize that there is no point in exploring anymore after 20 hours because everything to discover is just the same copy pasted area you visited many times already
 
He's right but that's just one of many reasons why Starfield is a lesser experience than TES and Fallout.

The game lacks soul. It's so unspectacular.

The RPG systems are completely uninteresting. When you finish Fallout NV, you immediately want to make a new character and have a completely different experience. That's not really possible in Starfield because of how lacking everything is, from story to characters to builds. The game puts you in a box that limits your freedom.
this. there's just something so overly-familiar about it all: the storyline, the 'motley crew'. it's some kinda massive collection of sci-fi tropes, period, with nothing whatsoever to differentiate it. i enjoyed my time with it, but it does nothing really unique or memorable. just one more big, beautiful open world comfort food game to pass some time in...
 
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Funny how every time Starfield comes up, it's the devs themselves trying to explain why the game was misunderstood.

You can tell it's over... nobody's talking about it anymore.

The "Skyrim in space" hype fizzled out fast. It's not 2011 anymore.
 
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I actually enjoyed Starfield quite a bit, but there was little to actually discover. I put it down after about 60 hours. Playing the game, nothing ever really happened to you - nothing amazing appeared on the horizon for you to go and discover or explore. You had to directly initiate everything via a series of menus,. robbing the game of the magic that runs through their Elder Scrolls and Fallout titles. Procedural generation or not wouldn't save that core design issue. It's good, but it's not great. And the main story was kinda ass, frankly.
 
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" I worked on it, I'm proud of the work I did. I'm proud of the work that the people I knew did on it. I think they made a great game."

Wish people would just admit when they worked on something and it was shit. Just own that crap.
 
"space in inherently boring. It's literally described as nothingness. So moving throughout that isn't where the excitement is, in my opinion."

No it's not, you just made a shit game.
 
I actually enjoyed Starfield quite a bit, but there was little to actually discover. I put it down after about 60 hours. Playing the game, nothing ever really happened to you - nothing amazing appeared on the horizon for you to go and discover or explore. You had to directly initiate everything via a series of menus,. robbing the game of the magic that runs through their Elder Scrolls and Fallout titles. Procedural generation or not wouldn't save that core design issue. It's good, but it's not great. And the main story was kinda ass, frankly.
I put in around 120 hours and agree with anything you've said there.

Some of the side quests were fantastic.

That main story though.. the less said the better
 
It's one of the factors for sure. I absolutely hate procedurally generated content in RPG's, that stuff belong in games from other genres like No Man's Sky.
 
I love the space exploration part.

They need to spread out content a bit, every system needs to have a habitable planet that has its own story and quests.

Making 4 cities, then concentrating everything handcrafted there definitely makes random exploration not very fulfilling.

Thats all I would like to see changed, and it will be exactly what I want out of it.
 
Buddy I can write a 73-page essay on what went wrong with this game and it really, really isn't just procedural generation.
 
Yes the procedural generation.....

......and the repeating Points of Interest.....

.......and the constant loading and fast travelling.......

.......and the dull quest design......

........and the wooden facial animations.......

........and the lacklustre story.......




Did i miss anything ?
 
That game was an absolute letdown and conveyed very little sense of exploration while it was supposed to be an incredible journey through space. And the journey took place with assholes as NPCs that were constantly annoying.
 
quell surprise, they took the one feature everyone hated and was so extremely critical of from fallout 4, Preston Garvey's procedural missions and decided to build their new game around that.
 
The main characters, the writing and the main story were mediocre as well.

Also, that main mission "Unearthed" wasn't amazing lol. It was fairly decent I guess but definitely not an "amazing" mission. How can people have such low standards? Goodness me...
 
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Yes the procedural generation.....

......and the repeating Points of Interest.....

.......and the constant loading and fast travelling.......

.......and the dull quest design......

........and the wooden facial animations.......

........and the lacklustre story.......




Did i miss anything ?
The terrible levelling system. The god awful upgrade system. The total lack of exploration. Emergent gameplay being limited to a few space encounters that just repeat even if you kill the fuckers. Even the good stuff like ship building being fucked up by level gating and having to shop around for components. And probably a dozen other things I cant remember right now.
 
It was definitely one of the reason's, empty planets with the same bases repeated constantly bored players, why didn't Bethesda realize this beforehand is a real issue for me with the game, it's not hard to see this was going to happen.
 
No, it was this:

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Space isn't meant for this engine. Keep it to single planets or at the very most, just one system of planets.
Mass Effect and KotOR did multiple planets reasonably well. Starfield failed in every respect. This dev is partially correct. The procedurally generated shit did make it suck and was probably more than half of the reason it wasn't as good as Skyrim. The other reason is Todd Howard. The dude is delusional, he wanted a game that people would keep playing for years like Skyrim, but was/is too stupid to realize that those players are rare, and that Skyrim's success came mainly from people who played for under 100 hours, liked the game alot and recommended it to others. That is who the game should have targeted.
 
There was no game there... all I remember is that there was two real full planets with areas of interests and then a handfull of nothing planets then the game was over.
 
but you don't even feel excitement on planets that are obviously hand crafted for the most part (the main story planets)

It isn't the tech that's the problem, its how its implemented and everything surrounding that, the game was f*cking boring, they didn't have to have a 10km walk between destinations with nothing of interest along the way. This seemed like they had an idea about making a huge star system type game but had no idea what the game would actually be
 
The procedural generation, the inventory management, the lack of alien enemies, constant loading time, space traveling is abysmal, not enough interesting quests... I loved the game and finished the story just to see the big reveal but yeah nowhere near what it should have been.
 
First 15 hours are absolute magic. Then you realise that that same 15 hours has just been copy/pasted 17 trillion times.
 
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