-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
STEAM- Announcements & Updates 2011 Edition |OT2|
- Thread starter ClovingWestbrook
- Start date
- Status
1-D_FTW said:
Doesn't it also completely trash profitability when rather than buying every game day 1 for $60 most of us wait for them to be $10 on Steam sales? Would you suggest we all change that policy as well to make sure videogame publishers can put food on their tables?
coopolon said:
We supplement the profits. If there aren't any day 1 sales, yes, we're kind of irrelevant and not worth chasing after.
I'm not harping on anyone who waits (I do on plenty of games). I'm saying for people to save 5 bucks by purchasing a CD key from some backroom dude in Russia is horrible for the industry.
If it were selling for 15 or 20 dollars, I could understand the temptation. But 37.50 is no deal for the consumer. And I doubt the publisher is seeing more than 5 dollars after you factor in production, distribution, retail cuts. Day 1 sales are a huge part of the industry's profitability and it's pretty skeevy, IMO, for Warner to see a couple dollars on the Day 1 sale of Batman, while Boris is Russia is pocketing 25 dollars in profit with almost zero overhead for doing nothing. He's much worse for the videogame economy that Gamestop on their worst day.
That's not a healthy business model for anybody but Boris.
Dog Problems
Banned
Runaway: The Dream of the Turtle is the Daily Deal at $3.40
Great price on a pretty good point-and-click adventure. I love the Runaway series.
Great price on a pretty good point-and-click adventure. I love the Runaway series.
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
1-D_FTW said:
Apart from the implicitly jingoistic tone that "Boris" has no right to make money, there is a massive logical flaw in your argument however.
Let's assume you are correct and a publisher only sees $5 revenue from a CD Key sale (and really, sucks for them if they don't pass the savings of selling via DD direct to the customer and compete with cd key resellers directly), that is still $5 from every customer who purchases that game.
Gamestop on the other hand will pay a publisher once regardless of how many times that same copy of a game is resold. The publisher will see - at best - 50% of that initial sales revenue. Gamestop hoovers up every resale as profit.
Some titles see the exact same copy resold tens of times, again all of which never filters to a publisher.
Which of those scenarios do you actually think a publisher feels a sting of lost revenue from more?
jim-jam bongs
Member
I think that the main point to remember with the key resellers is that it's not your job as a consumer to protect the revenues of companies. That's not some kind of "fuck you" to the people who make the games you love, it's an acknowledgement of where you stand in the relationship. It's their job to make you want something, and make it worth the money they are asking for it, it's your job as a consumer to try to get it as cheaply as possible because that's how competition happens.
As I said earlier, if the publishers genuinely feel that it's a problem there are a huge number of things they could do. As an Australian I can say with confidence that they could stop me from using key resellers if they didn't add a 90 - 100% markup on the USD price on Steam.
Judging by the response, obviously I should have made a new thread!
As I said earlier, if the publishers genuinely feel that it's a problem there are a huge number of things they could do. As an Australian I can say with confidence that they could stop me from using key resellers if they didn't add a 90 - 100% markup on the USD price on Steam.
Gravijah said:
Judging by the response, obviously I should have made a new thread!
latinum(download) is $5 on amazon jim-jam bongs said:
I'm not in the business of protecting them. I'm just agreeing with the one guy that's it's bad for the health of the PC gaming side. I'm sure it'll get region locked if it starts becoming more of an issue.
Just saying, personally, if money was an issue, I'd wait for a sale before I'd give these bandits the sale. They really are fleecing people considering how cheaply they're buying the game and what they're selling the keys for. It doesn't take that long for a game to get a 50 percent off on Steam, and the developer is going to get a ton more money from the sale (important if you care about them staying in business and making future titles).
But, hey, to each his own. I don't think most games are worth full retail either. And after the shitactular F12011, my day one purchase requirements just got a whole lot stiffer. Just saying that I agree and it's something to consider unless you really need to have the game day one and can't wait a couple months.
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
kamspy said:
Yep.
jim-jam bongs
Member
1-D_FTW said:
Okay, but let's think about this line of reasoning a little further.
The keys are legitimate, no? So at some point the publisher/developer received the money for that key. It's really the same as the piracy lost sales argument in a sense. We have no way of knowing for sure how many people would have paid full price for the key if they couldn't buy the cheaper one, and how many would have skipped the game entirely.
I'm one of the latter people for the record. If a publisher wants to list a game on Steam at $USD90 - 100 then you can bet that I will skip it unless I see it on a key reseller for a reasonable price.
My stance on digital globalisation is you have to take the crunchy with the smooth. If you want to enjoy the benefits of having a digital marketplace which is open 24/7 to people from all over the planet then you have to also deal with the fact that practices like regional pricing don't fit that model, or you're going to discover how creative people can be at circumventing your protectionism.
Lastly, I do this because I can and it benefits me. If they start region-locking or doing IP checks then the choice is clear for me; I just won't buy their games.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
jim-jam bongs said:
I like how you think!
snoopeasystreet
Member
Not exactly a steam deal but it's great deal for Euro PC Gaffers.
The hut has Arkham City with Batman Begins and The Dark Knight on Blu Ray for £24.85. Now the game probably won't be steam registrable, but there's a chance I suppose, Dirt 3 was GFWL and could be activated on steam.
edit - I assume you can use HUT2 to get another 2 pound off of that. So it'll probably end up under 23 pounds for the deal.
The hut has Arkham City with Batman Begins and The Dark Knight on Blu Ray for £24.85. Now the game probably won't be steam registrable, but there's a chance I suppose, Dirt 3 was GFWL and could be activated on steam.
edit - I assume you can use HUT2 to get another 2 pound off of that. So it'll probably end up under 23 pounds for the deal.
The bottom line is, real talk, gaming is not charity work. Unless we're talking about a little indie title, the developers got paid for their work when they were making the game. They got their paycheck already, and as long as I'm not stealing or pirating the game, there is no reason for me or anyone to feel guilty for buying the game on sale or at half price or from a CD key site or (gasp) EVEN USED
As far as what's "healthy" for the gaming industry, publishers and developers have way bigger fucking problems than CD key sites to worry about.
As far as what's "healthy" for the gaming industry, publishers and developers have way bigger fucking problems than CD key sites to worry about.
jim-jam bongs
Member
Htown said:
Do you know what the really funny part is? Those indie developers are far less likely to practice the kind of regional price-gouging which encourages people like me to use key resellers.
Interesting, huh?
Stallion Free
Cock Encumbered
Hmmm, I picked up the Hamilton's Adventure DLC, but I can't seem to find where the levels are.
Syphon Filter
Member
How many big sales are left this year? Do they do one on black friday? I started in the summer so i never went through a holiday so far.
jim-jam bongs
Member
I'd actually argue that with the new Steam approach, that is having a continuous sale on a rotating selection of items, makes the big sales less relevant. Obviously they're still awesome, I'm just always amazed by the random midweek deals and such.
http://store.steampowered.com/app/102600?snr=1_41_4__42
Orcs Must Die up for preorder + the demo is available.
Orcs Must Die up for preorder + the demo is available.
Dog Problems
Banned
If they do another event like they did for Summer sale with collecting tickets, I don't think I'll go along with it. I bought a lot of games just for a ticket and I won't play a good number of them again.
Dead Prince
Banned
thanks. downloading the demo now.Sinatar said:
Oh man, been playing the shit out of the Heroes VI demo. I can't afford it at $50, so I figured I should finally install Heroes V, which I got cheap in the summer sale.
Um... yeah. I'll just wait for VI to hit $30. Heroes V looks like they didn't get to finish the texture work. The ground, oh God, the ground is soooo UGLY.
Um... yeah. I'll just wait for VI to hit $30. Heroes V looks like they didn't get to finish the texture work. The ground, oh God, the ground is soooo UGLY.
My opinion on the Russian key thing is this:
I'm all for getting rid of regional pricing. Trying to make me pay double in Australia because you want to price gouge by maintaining prices that were established when the Australian dollar was like 30c lower than it is today, is simply bull crap. I hate it, and I'm always thankful for the help shown by American guys on here who will gift me games so I can pay the proper price.
But, I feel the Russian situation is different. Games are extremely cheap in Russia because publishers see that as the only way to break into a country where piracy is incredibly rampant, and a huge swath of the population is relatively poor compared to the rest of the developed world.
So let me put it this way - I think making me pay almost double what Americans pay is anti-consumer. So I have no problem going the long way around to avoid that anti-consumer practice, and highly recommend people do the same. I don't think offering cheap prices to Russia due to unique market and economic conditions is anti-consumer. So on that level, I think it's pretty scummy. It might be hypocritical, but that's how I think.
But my big problem is this - I have no doubt that as the popularity of this starts to rise, we're going to region locking of Steam titles become increasingly prevalent. I'd like to think this will be restricted to blocking off Russian keys, but I honestly don't think that will be the case. I get the feeling Valve has been holding tight against the wave of publishers who most likely want to region lock all their titles. I have no doubt they want to do it, because without it their regional pricing isn't enforceable. So publishers are probably going to use this situation as a way to try and put region locking on everything.
And if that happens, I will hunt down every single one of you who bought a Russian key, and force you to pay $90US for you games for the rest of your life.
I'm all for getting rid of regional pricing. Trying to make me pay double in Australia because you want to price gouge by maintaining prices that were established when the Australian dollar was like 30c lower than it is today, is simply bull crap. I hate it, and I'm always thankful for the help shown by American guys on here who will gift me games so I can pay the proper price.
But, I feel the Russian situation is different. Games are extremely cheap in Russia because publishers see that as the only way to break into a country where piracy is incredibly rampant, and a huge swath of the population is relatively poor compared to the rest of the developed world.
So let me put it this way - I think making me pay almost double what Americans pay is anti-consumer. So I have no problem going the long way around to avoid that anti-consumer practice, and highly recommend people do the same. I don't think offering cheap prices to Russia due to unique market and economic conditions is anti-consumer. So on that level, I think it's pretty scummy. It might be hypocritical, but that's how I think.
But my big problem is this - I have no doubt that as the popularity of this starts to rise, we're going to region locking of Steam titles become increasingly prevalent. I'd like to think this will be restricted to blocking off Russian keys, but I honestly don't think that will be the case. I get the feeling Valve has been holding tight against the wave of publishers who most likely want to region lock all their titles. I have no doubt they want to do it, because without it their regional pricing isn't enforceable. So publishers are probably going to use this situation as a way to try and put region locking on everything.
And if that happens, I will hunt down every single one of you who bought a Russian key, and force you to pay $90US for you games for the rest of your life.
I agree.legend166 said:
This will just lead to price locking in the DD market and key market and every market.
I dont like it, and its boom in popularity is its own death knell, and it will mean fewer and fewer chances to pay US prices on games and more regional pricing. YOU SCREWED US ALL in other words >.<
Are you really all arguing about the validity of taking advantage of regional pricing? I hope that's not what I've been reading these last few pages.
1. it's completely valid
2. publishers want to get as much money from you, which is why places like russia is priced lower
3. fuck publishers and pay as little as you want. If a game has a publisher, they've already been paid, getting the game at full price just determines if they make enough money to make a sequel or for the devs to get absorbed if they don't. Indie guys is a little more important to buy at full price because generally they've either taken out a loan they have to pay back, or they saved up and are literally betting the farm on getting the sales needed.
1. it's completely valid
2. publishers want to get as much money from you, which is why places like russia is priced lower
3. fuck publishers and pay as little as you want. If a game has a publisher, they've already been paid, getting the game at full price just determines if they make enough money to make a sequel or for the devs to get absorbed if they don't. Indie guys is a little more important to buy at full price because generally they've either taken out a loan they have to pay back, or they saved up and are literally betting the farm on getting the sales needed.
markot said:
One thing is for sure, if they do that, they'll get less money from me. For example, if Rage was $60 USD in every site (And CD-Key sellers didn't exist), I just wouldn't buy it, instead I'd wait for the Steam sale to get it for cheap. This can apply to other similar big releases.
Its valid, but its about to stop, and force even bigger restrictions into place on all of us.
Also I do think its kind of unfair to take advantage of regional pricing to the extent of using a publishers or devs use of much lower pricing in countries with much lower income levels >.<!
Also I do think its kind of unfair to take advantage of regional pricing to the extent of using a publishers or devs use of much lower pricing in countries with much lower income levels >.<!
VGChampion
Member
Isn't minimum wage higher in Australia than the US? I'm not saying you should buy games that much more than us or even more than us at all but that's one defense I've heard in the past.
jim-jam bongs
Member
That was a good post legend, but I still disagree with the logic.
Publishers who don't price gouge won't be the ones who are most affected by this so there's really no reason for them to suddenly start demanding that Valve or their distributors enforce region blocking on their titles. As for the other publishers who do price gouge well... if you don't use key resellers then you're not going to be any worse off if they suddenly start region locking all of their stuff to prevent it, so I'm not sure that it's fair to object to other people doing it even if you feel personally that it's not cool.
Publishers who don't price gouge won't be the ones who are most affected by this so there's really no reason for them to suddenly start demanding that Valve or their distributors enforce region blocking on their titles. As for the other publishers who do price gouge well... if you don't use key resellers then you're not going to be any worse off if they suddenly start region locking all of their stuff to prevent it, so I'm not sure that it's fair to object to other people doing it even if you feel personally that it's not cool.
Stallion Free
Cock Encumbered
How about you practice what you preach.Gvaz said:
Valve did it themselves though when lots of people bought HL2 keys from Thailand at launch, they banned them or somesuch >_<
Valve sees its USD as worth it for Australia and Europe, its one standard price, and our income levels are generally the same http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita
In Australia we pay 99.95 for new releases, sometimes more for console ones.
Yet those prices were set when our currency was much, much weaker than the US one, for years now it has been close to parity, above sometimes, below others. Yet the prices have not gone down.
Yet our income, as said is closely matched to the US's.
But Russia? Thailand? The average income is less than half of ours. Valve prices it there, and so do others, do be 'fair' to the consumer, so that they can actually purchase it not at the US levels which would be pretty much exorbitant.
To me, using that pricing to simply buy games for a bargain is kinda screwing over the publishers unfairly. If you dont think a game is worth $60, wait for a sale? Dont get it? Using Russian keys is just going to mean keys will soon be region locked.
And this is coming from someone in Australia who is frequently screwed by publishers >_<! Rage is 90USD on steam here, MW3? $100 bucks! Im not going to get a Russia key for them, im just not going to get them!
Also, region locking hasnt infected all DD sites yet, but it will if they start getting more 'antsy' over the key sellers.
Valve sees its USD as worth it for Australia and Europe, its one standard price, and our income levels are generally the same http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita
In Australia we pay 99.95 for new releases, sometimes more for console ones.
Yet those prices were set when our currency was much, much weaker than the US one, for years now it has been close to parity, above sometimes, below others. Yet the prices have not gone down.
Yet our income, as said is closely matched to the US's.
But Russia? Thailand? The average income is less than half of ours. Valve prices it there, and so do others, do be 'fair' to the consumer, so that they can actually purchase it not at the US levels which would be pretty much exorbitant.
To me, using that pricing to simply buy games for a bargain is kinda screwing over the publishers unfairly. If you dont think a game is worth $60, wait for a sale? Dont get it? Using Russian keys is just going to mean keys will soon be region locked.
And this is coming from someone in Australia who is frequently screwed by publishers >_<! Rage is 90USD on steam here, MW3? $100 bucks! Im not going to get a Russia key for them, im just not going to get them!
Also, region locking hasnt infected all DD sites yet, but it will if they start getting more 'antsy' over the key sellers.
jim-jam bongs said:
Well it's not like I'm calling for people to be arrested.
I'm not sure what you mean by the last one.
My worry is this - publishers are going to go to Valve and say "Look, we're losing all this revenue because people are using Russian key resellers - give us the ability to region lock keys." Valve is more likely to give into that than people saying "Look, we're losing all this revenue because people are gifting across countries to avoid our obvious anti-consumer tactics."
Even the publishers who don't price gouge are probably thinking "Damn, we're not even being dickheads like EA, and we're still getting rorted."
Note - I don't think charging $50 in the States and $20 in Russia is price gouging.
jim-jam bongs
Member
legend166 said:
Well it's like this:
Game A costs $89.95 in the Australian Steam store.
Game B costs $49.95 in the Australian Steam store.
Gamer A sees Game A costs nearly double what other titles listed nearby do and goes to a key reseller in an attempt to get the game cheaper.
Gamer A sees Game B costs $49.95 and purchases it directly at that price.
The publisher of Game A is encouraging people to seek a lower price for their title by pricing it so high, however they do so because they want to extract more profit from this market. Given that agenda it makes sense for them to seek to lock their keys, in fact I'm fairly sure that Valve already gives them the opportunity to do so even with Steamworks titles.
The publisher of Game B has no such concern. As far as they're concerned they are getting the asking price they were after and that's that. That was the point to which I was alluding, although I did a terrible job of explaining it!
legend166 said:
This was something I misunderstood about your original post, I do agree that the Russian angle is particularly sticky because of the specifics of trying to create a market there. In that particular case it does feel a lot like taking advantage. Hopefully when they do react they do so by dealing with that issue in particular rather than throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
DiscoJer
Member
legend166 said:
No, it's not. But most people on the internet can't grasp the concept that different countries have different economies and thus different pricing on the same items.
If they see it on sale in a different country for less, they go "ZOMG, I'm being ripped off, so & so are evil gouging bastards!"
- Status