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STEAM announcements & updates 2013 II - ITT we buy $1 games and complain about them

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T

TekGryphon

Banned
Am I the only one getting disturbed by the rapid escalation in prices for indie games?

Dwarf Fortress is free.
I remember when Minecraft's early access was $5 and the full release was $15.
Games like Terraria, Gnomoria and Towns were under $10, often with a sale.
Dungeons of Dreadmore was $5, while Dungeon Defenders and Don't Starve were $15.

Recently I've seen a sudden escalation.

Folk Tale early access is $20, and the final product will be between $30 and $40.
Prison Architect early access is $30, and the final product will probably be $40.
War for the Overworld early access is $22, again with the final product being between $30 and $40.

Some of these games don't even look promising. War for the Overworld is an almost direct rip of Dungeon Keeper and it's got huge issues. Folk Tale has no real vision and the developers are bouncing all over the place.

Is this a sign of things to come? At this rate, if Microsoft and Sony carry through with their commitment to offer frequent sales in their premium services, we're going to see a day when 1-2 man indie titles are out-pricing AAA titles.
 
R

ROBOKITTYZILLA

Member
Those Trading Card updates sound awesome. Valve posted this about the booster packs:

For all the "participate in the community" questions: we're still working on what the exact rules are. We are thinking that it be something as simple as all users are eligible for drops during a given week, if they've already found all the drops they can in-game, and they've done at least one thing on the community (play a game, post a comment, etc). We don't want a thing where users can 'grind' doing posts or having a game sit idle to try and increase their chances of getting cards over others. More thoughts welcome.
Click to expand...
 
iNvid02

iNvid02

Member
Grief.exe said:
Praise the sun.

2Ga8KLZ.png


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Zi8WYbV69w
Click to expand...

praise the sun indeed.

apologies for stabbing you in the back without first listening to what you had to say solaire ;_;

edit: GFWL seems back up now, was hoping microsoft would have let it die
 
A

alr1ght

bish gets all the credit :)
Why the heck does my game credit not work for stuff that amazon has on sale? If I try to use it on something that's not on sale (Just Cause) it works fine, yet throw FTL in there and it doesn't take it off.
 
G

Grief.exe

Member
TekGryphon said:
Am I the only one getting disturbed by the rapid escalation in prices for indie games?

Dwarf Fortress is free.
I remember when Minecraft's early access was $5 and the full release was $15.
Games like Terraria, Gnomoria and Towns were under $10, often with a sale.
Dungeons of Dreadmore was $5, while Dungeon Defenders and Don't Starve were $15.

Recently I've seen a sudden escalation.

Folk Tale early access is $20, and the final product will be between $30 and $40.
Prison Architect early access is $30, and the final product will probably be $40.
War for the Overworld early access is $22, again with the final product being between $30 and $40.

Some of these games don't even look promising. War for the Overworld is an almost direct rip of Dungeon Keeper and it's got huge issues. Folk Tale has no real vision and the developers are bouncing all over the place.

Is this a sign of things to come? At this rate, if Microsoft and Sony carry through with their commitment to offer frequent sales in their premium services, we're going to see a day when 1-2 man indie titles are out-pricing AAA titles.
Click to expand...

Mojang's newest game, Scrolls, is over $20 for the alpha version...

eyeless said:
what. are you saying ds2 will have gfwl
Click to expand...

No.

He is referring to how GFWL hasn't been authenticating games the past week.

Apparently the issue has been fixed.
 
S

STAB-Gatekeeper

Member
TekGryphon said:
Am I the only one getting disturbed by the rapid escalation in prices for indie games?

....

Folk Tale early access is $20, and the final product will be between $30 and $40.
Prison Architect early access is $30, and the final product will probably be $40.
War for the Overworld early access is $22, again with the final product being between $30 and $40.
Click to expand...

I thought specifically in prison architects defense, the developer has been open about early access being more expensive than what the retail release will be to limit the amount of people who bought into the alpha (which at time of release was horribly broken and buggy). Personally other than Don't Starve, I have not felt the need to buy into early access, as I want to play games, not alpha test a buggy and non-complete game.

Sure some indies are getting more expensive, but you can still see great examples of games for under $10 (Gunpoint, The Swapper, Reus). I guess as the scope of these games increase and they're no longer 5 minute distractions, development costs will increase thus the retail cost as well. Personally I think having games of varying scopes and prices is a good thing, instead of having a stringent hiarachy of $10 indie games, $30 b-teir games and $60 AAA. And ultimately, this is steam, they'll all eventually be 75% off or in some kind of ludicrous bundle.
 
S

Stumpokapow

listen to the mad man
TekGryphon said:
Am I the only one getting disturbed by the rapid escalation in prices for indie games?

Dwarf Fortress is free.
I remember when Minecraft's early access was $5 and the full release was $15.
Games like Terraria, Gnomoria and Towns were under $10, often with a sale.
Dungeons of Dreadmore was $5, while Dungeon Defenders and Don't Starve were $15.

Recently I've seen a sudden escalation.

Folk Tale early access is $20, and the final product will be between $30 and $40.
Prison Architect early access is $30, and the final product will probably be $40.
War for the Overworld early access is $22, again with the final product being between $30 and $40.
Click to expand...

The prices have escalated in part due to the higher production values, but also as a form of price stratification. Imagine you have two lemons, and two people want to buy lemons. One guy wants to buy it for $5, the other for $20. If you sell at $10, you get one lemon sold for $10. If you sell at $20, and then later sell at $5, you sell both lemons and get $25. Now imagine you have an infinite amount of lemons, and real buyers vary from people who will pay the cost of lemons + $0.01 to people who will pay $60. The most logical thing to do is to start high and slowly ramp your price down, so that each time the price drops a little more, you peel off the people waiting for that price tier. So why not sell lemons in a dutch auction? Well, everyone who buys your lemon tells their friends, who also buy lemons, so you want a lot of buyers, not just maximizing revenue. Second, people won't wait their whole life for your lemon (for one thing, there are people selling limes next door so...), and you need to get on with getting something else to sell anyway, so to some extent you don't want to spend too much time micro-managing your lemon store. Okay, so why not maybe just adjust your price at random?

Okay now back to indie games. Don't Starve launched at $15, which was itself an escalation from the earlier prices you mentioned. But it's been out 6 weeks and it's already been on sale for $12. This Steam summer sale, I'd guess it'll be $10 at most. By the Christmas sale, probably $5 at most. And it'll end up in the Humble Indie Bundle, which will effectively give you a $1 per-game price, sometime in the next 12 months. All of these games will be cheap, just not at launch. I think that's OK. Besides, I find the initial community buzz helps to determine if it's something I should care about at all. I had a vague interest in Dungeons before it came out, LOL

And one more note. When you're in alpha development, you:
a) Want enough revenue to survive until the game is released
b) Want enough testers to identify problems and provide helpful feedback
BUT
c) You don't want just anyone to wander in and play an unfinished product, because first of all they will nag you for support and you don't have the capacity to support your game at this stage... and second of all, they'll get a negative impression. You want a curated, hand-picked, elite squad of people who understand what an alpha really means.

It stands to reason that those willing to pay the highest prices are people very very sold on your idea, so "overpricing" might not be a revenue maximizer during alpha development, but as long as it satisfies a and b, you don't want to do "too well" so you ruin c.
 
R

ROBOKITTYZILLA

Member
Free Steam games. Quote to reveal and post if you take one!

Dear Esther
Dear Esther
Capsized
Capsized
Little Inferno
Little Inferno
Awesomenauts
Awesomenauts
Hotline Miami
Hotline Miami
Tiny and Big in Grandpa's Leftovers
Tiny and Big in Grandpa's Leftovers
Intrusion 2
Intrusion 2
Fairy Bloom Freesia
Fairy Bloom Freesia
Slam Bolt Scrappers
Slam Bolt Scrappers
Patrician V
Patrician V
Patrician V: Rise of a Dynasty DLC
Patrician V: Rise of a Dynasty DLC
Hacker Evolution: Untold
 
F

FloatOn

Member
Don't forget Don't Starve sold as a two pack pre-purchase. So you could have split the cost or been awesome like me and given out your extra copy thus creating word of mouth buzz for this great game.
 
R

RibbedHero

Member
Stumpokapow said:
The prices have escalated in part due to the higher production values, but also as a form of price stratification. Imagine you have two lemons, and two people want to buy lemons. One guy wants to buy it for $5, the other for $20. If you sell at $10, you get one lemon sold for $10. If you sell at $20, and then later sell at $5, you sell both lemons and get $25. Now imagine you have an infinite amount of lemons, and real buyers vary from people who will pay the cost of lemons + $0.01 to people who will pay $60. The most logical thing to do is to start high and slowly ramp your price down, so that each time the price drops a little more, you peel off the people waiting for that price tier. So why not sell lemons in a dutch auction? Well, everyone who buys your lemon tells their friends, who also buy lemons, so you want a lot of buyers, not just maximizing revenue. Second, people won't wait their whole life for your lemon (for one thing, there are people selling limes next door so...), and you need to get on with getting something else to sell anyway, so to some extent you don't want to spend too much time micro-managing your lemon store. Okay, so why not maybe just adjust your price at random?

Okay now back to indie games. Don't Starve launched at $15, which was itself an escalation from the earlier prices you mentioned. But it's been out 6 weeks and it's already been on sale for $12. This Steam summer sale, I'd guess it'll be $10 at most. By the Christmas sale, probably $5 at most. And it'll end up in the Humble Indie Bundle, which will effectively give you a $1 per-game price, sometime in the next 12 months. All of these games will be cheap, just not at launch. I think that's OK. Besides, I find the initial community buzz helps to determine if it's something I should care about at all. I had a vague interest in Dungeons before it came out, LOL

And one more note. When you're in alpha development, you:
a) Want enough revenue to survive until the game is released
b) Want enough testers to identify problems and provide helpful feedback
BUT
c) You don't want just anyone to wander in and play an unfinished product, because first of all they will nag you for support and you don't have the capacity to support your game at this stage... and second of all, they'll get a negative impression. You want a curated, hand-picked, elite squad of people who understand what an alpha really means.

It stands to reason that those willing to pay the highest prices are people very very sold on your idea, so "overpricing" might not be a revenue maximizer during alpha development, but as long as it satisfies a and b, you don't want to do "too well" so you ruin c.
Click to expand...

Essentially price skimming. Hardly surprising given the current system of many, many people waiting for sales or indie bundles. May eventually alienate those who are willing to buy day 1 though.
 
S

sibarraz

Banned
I finished for the first time the binding of isaac (beating mom's heart)


What a great game, I love how everything was designed, now I will see if I had the desire to finish the game another 8 times to get the real ending, and trying to do so with the other characters

RibbedHero said:
Essentially price skimming. Hardly surprising given the current system of many, many people waiting for sales or indie bundles. May eventually alienate those who are willing to buy day 1 though.
Click to expand...

This is true, me for example, I'm relatively new to steam, and had tons of games for cheap bundles, I'm in a situation where I doubt that I will buy a game at full price or even 50% of discount unless I'm really hyped for it (Sonic Racing Transformed was the only game that I had paid full price, and still that game was really cheap at launch)

Or assasins creed for example, I love the series, but I had no intentions on buying III until Black Flag is released since when that happen, III will be dirty cheap

Is like some company said, sales in some sense really cheapen the value of the games IMO, but maybe once in a while I found a game SO good that I had the urge to buy it at full price.
 
S

STAB-Gatekeeper

Member
sibarraz said:
I finished for the first time the binding of isaac (beating mom's heart)


What a great game, I love how everything was designed, now I will see if I had the desire to finish the game another 8 times to get the real ending, and trying to do so with the other characters
Click to expand...

Congats, that first kill is always the hardest :D. Wait till you open up the lower levels, that game just gets ludicrous after mom's heart.
 
S

sibarraz

Banned
STAB-Gatekeeper said:
Congats, that first kill is always the hardest :D. Wait till you open up the lower levels, that game just gets ludicrous after mom's heart.
Click to expand...

Yeah, this is the thing that I most loved about the game, even though everything is random, I still somehow felt that I was learning the pattern in all the dungeons. Then you had the item management aspect and you really feel that the game has a good deepness, never feeling unfair

I also had been playing karateka, it's a fun little game, maybe I don't hate it since I didn't know that this was a remake from an 80's game, and that got it in be mine 8 bundle
 
X

xJavonta

Banned
Did 3 player Monaco for about 4 hours straight and forgot how much fun it was. Need it to go on sale so I can go on a gifting spree
 
K

KarmaCow

Member
sibarraz said:
I finished for the first time the binding of isaac (beating mom's heart)


What a great game, I love how everything was designed, now I will see if I had the desire to finish the game another 8 times to get the real ending, and trying to do so with the other characters
Click to expand...

Oh there is a ton more to game, especially if you have the DLC.
 
T

TekGryphon

Banned
Stumpokapow said:
The prices have escalated in part due to the higher production values, but also as a form of price stratification. Imagine you have two lemons, and two people want to buy lemons. One guy wants to buy it for $5, the other for $20. If you sell at $10, you get one lemon sold for $10. If you sell at $20, and then later sell at $5, you sell both lemons and get $25.
Click to expand...

That makes sense, but I'm still worried about where this trend is going to take us.

With Microsoft and Sony offering Day 1 discounts on games through Live and PS+, I'm worried we're going to see a day when 1-man indie titles are releasing for the same price as AAA titles from major development studios.

I feel that's wrong.
 
I

Ionic

Member
TekGryphon said:
Prison Architect early access is $30, and the final product will probably be $40.
Click to expand...

I forget where I read this, but I'm pretty sure the developers said the early access for Prison Architect will be more expensive than the actual game. The early access is meant for the really big fans who know what they are getting into, and want to see this stuff sooner and have the experience of helping out in the development process.
 
K

KingKong

Member
This is insane, I sold my FTL cards in minutes and made like $3 which is almost what I paid for it. Free money!

I've made like $25 since the beta started and that's without getting any foils and giving away my 3 invites
 
K

KarmaCow

Member
KingKong said:
This is insane, I sold my FTL cards in minutes and made like $3 which is almost what I paid for it. Free money!

I've made like $25 since the beta started and that's without getting any foils and giving away my 3 invites
Click to expand...

How did you make $3 already? I've had 4 cards up for 50c each for half a day now and not even a bite. :(
 
L

Leon Belmont

Member
Does anyone have some spare Half Life 2 and L4D2 trading cards that won't use them?

I need 1 HL2 card in order to get my first badge also for L4D2, thank you :)
 
K

KingKong

Member
KarmaCow said:
How did you make $3 already? I've had 4 cards up for 50c each for half a day now and not even a bite. :(
Click to expand...

I put them like 2 cents lower than the lowest and they all get snatched up almost instantly. Depends when you did it I guess, I sold mine when it was about 60-70 cents and now its at about 45
 
M

Momentary

Banned
Damn. I wish E3 would have had more multiplats getting announce for PC... Mainly MGSV and FFXV. Only thing I can only hope for now is for Titanfall to somehow get on Steam. Am I being stupid about refusing to use Origin?
 
S

spindoctor

Member
Rayge said:
Damn. I wish E3 would have had more multiplats getting announce for PC... Mainly MGSV and FFXV. Only thing I can only hope for now is for Titanfall to somehow get on Steam. Am I being stupid about refusing to use Origin?
Click to expand...

We don't know if Titanfall will be an Origin exclusive game. That said, Origin might be a nuisance but it's not so bad that you should miss out on games that interest you.
 
C

Cth

Member
HoosTrax said:
The Monster Loves You developer reallllly loves breaking NDA...
andymoore.png
Click to expand...

I'll admit, I bought it last week. Made a few bucks from cards, so it paid for itself..

But seeing it on sale this week did sting a bit, but the market for the cards has collapsed so I guess it evens itself out.

First time something I bought went on sale like that.
 
Nabs

Nabs

Member
spindoctor said:
We don't know if Titanfall will be an Origin exclusive game. That said, Origin might be a nuisance but it's not so bad that you should miss out on games that interest you.
Click to expand...

It's a major problem for me since no one is ever on Origin. Multiplayer games die so damn quickly among my gaf/steam friends.
 
S

Sinatar

Official GAF Bottom Feeder
spindoctor said:
We don't know if Titanfall will be an Origin exclusive game. That said, Origin might be a nuisance but it's not so bad that you should miss out on games that interest you.
Click to expand...

Titanfall is running on Source Engine actually, I think it might be part of the license agreement that it has to show up on Steam. Maybe not though.
 
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