Support NeoGAF

[BinaryPork2737]

Seriously? Next thing... Humble Pre-Order bundle, featuring WB and Ubisoft.

I don't see what's wrong with the bundle. The only thing in common that the games have is that all of them had successful kickstarters and have already been released. This isn't the Humble Early Access Bundle or anything like that.

 

[KarmaCow]

Seriously? Next thing... Humble Pre-Order bundle, featuring WB and Ubisoft.

All the games in the bundle have been finished and released.

 

[L.O.R.D]

Seriously? Next thing... Humble Pre-Order bundle, featuring WB and Ubisoft.

Humble Pre-Order DLC Bundle
featuring all unobtainable day one DLC and useless skin crap

also

Humble Removed-steam games that is not on steam right now

 

[Dr Dogg]

Ugh, I know. I really don't want to have to deal with anymore of TotalBiscuit's unironic PC Gamer Master Race crap, and I really can't help but feel the "Framerate police" will end up do more damage than good.

The sad thing is no one should have to create a group, good or evil intentions, to inform potential purchasers about the capabilities of a game. Publishers themselves have all of that information, what resolutions are supported, whether the framerate is limited, how aspect ratios are handled, even DRM implentation but are next to never forthcoming with the information. Though they will gladly take your money before any of that info is known. What we should be campaigning for is publishers to be more open with potential customers and just give us a bit of disclosure. It would go a long way to earning trust (well providing they aren't lying) and those who aren't as forthcoming with said details it might be worth holding off purchasing until the game is out.

I've long said that Systems Requirements are outdated and more often than not cause confusion than actually inform people. Something more in line with what system is required to achieve a stated resolution, framerate and level of settings would be more informative than just Minimum and Recommended. That's what we should be pushing for but you might be right in that something like the framerate police might make publisher more reluctant to give this information if they are met with hostility. We'll see.

 

[Sober]

All the games in the bundle have been finished and released.

So like ... 4 year old games

 

[MMBosstones86]

Seriously? Next thing... Humble Pre-Order bundle, featuring WB and Ubisoft.

Joke backfire.

 

[Caerith]

The sad thing is no one should have to create a group, good or evil intentions, to inform potential purchasers about the capabilities of a game. Publishers themselves have all of that information, what resolutions are supported, whether the framerate is limited, how aspect ratios are handled, even DRM implentation but are next to never forthcoming with the information. Though they will gladly take your money before any of that info is known. What we should be campaigning for is publishers to be more open with potential customers and just give us a bit of disclosure. It would go a long way to earning trust (well providing they aren't lying) and those who aren't as forthcoming with said details it might be worth holding off purchasing until the game is out.

I've long said that Systems Requirements are outdated and more often than not cause confusion than actually inform people. Something more in line with what system is required to achieve a stated resolution, framerate and level of settings would be more informative than just Minimum and Recommended. That's what we should be pushing for but you might be right in that something like the framerate police might make publisher more reluctant to give this information if they are met with hostility. We'll see.

It'd be nice if there was a useful infoblock on the store pages. I'm surprised publishers aren't already putting in the effort to research and provide this information considering how grateful and polite the community always is.

 

[fokkusu]

All of those games are finished.

That makes zero sense. The theme of the Bundle is complete and finished games that used Kickstarter to get made in the first place.
You're not backing games here, neither are you preordering them.

What a terrible comparison.

I don't see what's wrong with the bundle. The only thing in common that the games have is that all of them had successful kickstarters and have already been released. This isn't the Humble Early Access Bundle or anything like that.

All the games in the bundle have been finished and released.

Ok ok, didn't know that. Maybe they would have thought naming it Kickstarted

 

[PandaPedinte]

So like ... 4 year old games

The oldest game on this bundle is Gun of Icarus that was released on 2012, I believe all the other games were released on 2014

 

[Dr Dogg]

It'd be nice if there was a useful infoblock on the store pages. I'm surprised publishers aren't already putting in the effort to research and provide this information considering how grateful and polite the community always is.

Well the gaming community has always been chock full of charming individuals that I'm baffled why creators are so standoffish.

On a more serious note this is what I proposed a while back.

Though on reflection dropping the Maximum idea and just have a resolution and high framerate requirement might be a better idea (but it was actual data of what was required for a specific game and showed good scalability). At the very least I do feel like providing details on a games capabilities and if there any limitations in place before asking for money would be in the consumers best interest. Can you imagine buying a car only to find out that 4th and 5th gear had been locked off due to drivechain instability? There would be litigation until the cows come home.

 

[jshackles]

The sad thing is no one should have to create a group, good or evil intentions, to inform potential purchasers about the capabilities of a game. Publishers themselves have all of that information, what resolutions are supported, whether the framerate is limited, how aspect ratios are handled, even DRM implentation but are next to never forthcoming with the information. Though they will gladly take your money before any of that info is known. What we should be campaigning for is publishers to be more open with potential customers and just give us a bit of disclosure. It would go a long way to earning trust (well providing they aren't lying) and those who aren't as forthcoming with said details it might be worth holding off purchasing until the game is out.

I've long said that Systems Requirements are outdated and more often than not cause confusion than actually inform people. Something more in line with what system is required to achieve a stated resolution, framerate and level of settings would be more informative than just Minimum and Recommended. That's what we should be pushing for but you might be right in that something like the framerate police might make publisher more reluctant to give this information if they are met with hostility. We'll see.

I agree with this wholeheartedly. The problem is that the developers/publishers won't relinquish this "age old tradition" used for system requirements until they start seeing a financial benefit in doing so. Many (perhaps most?) companies are counting on the fact that these requirements are confusing to the average user.

The big win, of course, is that refunds are now possible on Steam. It's definitely a step in the right direction where developers and publishers might not be able to rely on tricking people with confusing requirements and might actually decide it's better to be completely transparent about these things. Only time will tell, really.

 

[A Fish Aficionado]

My name is Alan Wake and I need to repeat that I am a writer just in case you're wondering.


Yeah. Requirements are confusing mostly because I'm a laptop gamer.

 

[Se7enSword]

Lord pls.

Eid is in 7 hours.

 

[Dr Dogg]

I agree with this wholeheartedly. The problem is that the developers/publishers won't relinquish this "age old tradition" used for system requirements until they start seeing a financial benefit in doing so. Many (perhaps most?) companies are counting on the fact that these requirements are confusing to the average user.

The big win, of course, is that refunds are now possible on Steam. It's definitely a step in the right direction where developers and publishers might not be able to rely on tricking people with confusing requirements and might actually decide it's better to be completely transparent about these things. Only time will tell, really.

You've just hit the nail on the head I think. If a publisher has something to hide it's usually because they know it will cause a stink. Christ look at Bethesda and The Evil Within fiasco where after being repeatedly asked what the framerate and aspect ratio options were, which of course they bloody knew for months and months, they waited just right up until release to let everyone know.

In a post Steam refund world this attitude is going to really hurt publisher now in the only way they'll take action.

 

[Grief.exe]

You've just hit the nail on the head I think. If a publisher has something to hide it's usually because they know it will cause a stink. Christ look at Bethesda and The Evil Within fiasco where after being repeatedly asked what the framerate and aspect ratio options were, which of course they bloody knew for months and months, they waited just right up until release to let everyone know.

In a post Steam refund world this attitude is going to really hurt publisher now in the only way they'll take action.

They weren't even going to inform consumers, only after we pressed Bethesda for info did they relent.

http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=907772

 

[TheLetdown]

I agree with this wholeheartedly. The problem is that the developers/publishers won't relinquish this "age old tradition" used for system requirements until they start seeing a financial benefit in doing so. Many (perhaps most?) companies are counting on the fact that these requirements are confusing to the average user.

The big win, of course, is that refunds are now possible on Steam. It's definitely a step in the right direction where developers and publishers might not be able to rely on tricking people with confusing requirements and might actually decide it's better to be completely transparent about these things. Only time will tell, really.

Or until regulation (and subsequent litigation) mandates it, which is about as highly unlikely as adopting those practices for the consumer's benefit out of the goodness in their hearts.

I wonder if Steam holds enough swing at this point that they could pressure this change by not letting publishers/devs sell their game on Steam unless they're compliant. Let's assume, for the sake of argument, that Steam decides to do this. Does Steam control enough of the flow of market that they could effect a sweeping change like this?

 

[lashman]

It's possible to play Doom inside of Doom

 

[Tizoc]

Lord pls.

Eid is in 7 hours.

Why arent u asleep :v

 

[Se7enSword]

Why arent u asleep :v

Why would I be??

It's only 11:40

gotta leave for haram at 2 am too.

 

[Dr Dogg]

They weren't even going to inform consumers, only after we pressed Bethesda for info did they relent.

http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=907772

Fuck it, you're the campaign guru, let's do this. Let's push for more open and informative System Requirements or at least to have Steam inform customers if the resolution or framerate is locked. They're the platform holder in essence, they could mandate publishers to list if a game has a framerate lock, 30, 60, 120, whatever or if the resolution isn't arbitrary. QA makes up almost a third of the credits of some AAA games these days so it's not like these are unknown quantities. I'm sure as a group we can flesh out some details we would like disclosed that aren't unreasonable and in the end this is to the benefit of everyone.

 

[Uzzy]

EVO Schedule, in a nice handy form. I'm excited for Ultimax, Xrd, Skullgirls, an absolute ton of Ultra and the Catherine side tournament. What are you guys going to be watching?

 

[L.O.R.D]

Lord pls.

Eid is in 7 hours.

lol , i know
because maybe tomorrow i'll be busy with the family and maybe we gonna go to al madina

 

[Hektor]

^competitive catherine, wat. Ill have to watch that.

 

[L.O.R.D]

Why would I be??

It's only 11:40

gotta leave for haram at 2 am too.

sleep is for weak

gonna stay up all the time until the eid pryer is start
maybe i'll sleep at 8 am

 

[jshackles]

Or until regulation (and subsequent litigation) mandates it, which is about as highly unlikely as adopting those practices for the consumer's benefit out of the goodness in their hearts.

I wonder if Steam holds enough swing at this point that they could pressure this change by not letting publishers/devs sell their game on Steam unless they're compliant. Let's assume, for the sake of argument, that Steam decides to do this. Does Steam control enough of the flow of market that they could effect a sweeping change like this?

Steam definitely controls enough of the market to make something like that a reality, but their philosophy of non-involvement means they never would. I'm honestly surprised they mandated refunds though, so it's a different world.

I've been thinking about adding some crowd-sourced stuff to Enhanced Steam for people to report things like this, but I've got to find a way to make the information easy to report (or no one will) and easy to digest (or it'll be worthless). I was asked by the PCMR guys if I would use their ratings, which I said I'd be happy to if enough people contributed. So far, not many people have. Their criteria is also confusing to the average person, so it'll probably just be something I set up on my own.

Fuck it, you're the campaign guru, let's do this. Let's push for more open and informative System Requirements or at least to have Steam inform customers if the resolution or framerate is locked. They're the platform holder in essence, they could mandate publishers to list if a game has a framerate lock, 30, 60, 120, whatever or if the resolution isn't arbitrary. QA makes up almost a third of the credits of some AAA games these days so it's not like these are unknown quantities. I'm sure as a group we can flesh out some details we would like disclosed that aren't unreasonable and in the end this is to the benefit of everyone.

As above, if we can collectively come up with good criteria, I can build the collection method and have it display in Enhanced Steam.

 

[Freedom = $1.05]

Steam definitely controls enough of the market to make something like that a reality, but their philosophy of non-involvement means they never would. I'm honestly surprised they mandated refunds though, so it's a different world.

I think that had more to do with the EU forcing their hand regarding refunds than Valve trying to engender goodwill with its consumer base

 

[Se7enSword]

lol , i know
because maybe tomorrow i'll be busy with the family and maybe we gonna go to al madina

Oh, cool. Where are you right now?

sleep is for weak

gonna stay up all the time until the eid pryer is start
maybe i'll sleep at 8 am

Indeed.

I won't sleep though. Gonna be awake all day.

Friday. :/

Btw, I assume you haven't checked the Ramadan thread?

 

[Dusk Golem]

No dont

It's been done, I have decided to embrace the alien DLC.

I also have to thank the desire to buy Isolation's Season Pass to this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOXmaTFIY0c

I'd play an Alien game with devil triggers and one-hit kills.

Oh my, I feel this is in reference to something I will understand soon. I'm actually very blind on both titles outside of reception.

Colonial Marines is pretty good. If you like 90s b rated FPS. It's comparable to Duke Nukem Forever. Which I also liked.

Then I'll probably find enjoyment, I tend not to judge something until I've had my own hands-on time with it, and I find myself to be pretty open-minded. I can enjoy B-fare games in their own way too.

 

[Dr Dogg]

Steam definitely controls enough of the market to make something like that a reality, but their philosophy of non-involvement means they never would. I'm honestly surprised they mandated refunds though, so it's a different world.

I've been thinking about adding some crowd-sourced stuff to Enhanced Steam for people to report things like this, but I've got to find a way to make the information easy to report (or no one will) and easy to digest (or it'll be worthless). I was asked by the PCMR guys if I would use their ratings, which I said I'd be happy to if enough people contributed. So far, not many people have. Their criteria is also confusing to the average person, so it'll probably just be something I set up on my own.

I'd be more than willing to but finding the time and resources (which given the range needed to be tested, limited hardware of my own and my crappy internet) would be a nightmare unless you had quite a few contributors. Basic details like game capabilities like resolution, framerate, aspect ratio, multi monitor support isn't too much work but yet again served better by a sizeable volume of contributors.

Edit: But yeah if the mountain won't come to Muhammad then Muhammad must go to the mountain. I'm away from tomorrow until Sunday but I'll have a think on Monday some ideas and what not and see what your folk might have come up with (probably do it with out me knowing my luck!).

 

[L.O.R.D]

Oh, cool. Where are you right now?

Indeed.

I won't sleep though. Gonna be awake all day.

Friday. :/


Btw, I assume you haven't checked the Ramadan thread?

jeddah
oh god , its EID and friday in the same time
my brain is telling me to stay at home , but the relatives insist to visit them
and the streets and very very crowded here

yes, i checked it couple of times

 

[salazar547]

EVO Schedule, in a nice handy form. I'm excited for Ultimax, Xrd, Skullgirls, an absolute ton of Ultra and the Catherine side tournament. What are you guys going to be watching?

thanks for this , cant wait to see the Catherine side tournament :v

 

[jshackles]

I'd be more than willing to but finding the time and resources (which given the range needed to be tested, limited hardware of my own and my crappy internet) would be a nightmare unless you had quite a few contributors. Basic details like game capabilities like resolution, framerate, aspect ratio, multi monitor support isn't too much work but yet again served better by a sizeable volume of contributors.

My thoughts also. Something like this almost has to be crowd-sourced extensively for the subset of data to mean anything at all. I thought about starting out with simple things like "Do you feel the game is well optimized?" - while highly subjective, if enough people answered that question Enhanced Steam could now show something like "78% of people felt the game was not well optimized". And the same for questions like "Is the framerate capped?" which could give us data like "94% of users reported that the framerate was capped". It's also easy to digest for the user submitting the data, as they get a simple Yes | No | I'm not sure answer box.

It'd be better than nothing, and could provide us with a jumping off point at least.

 

[madjoki]

I think that had more to do with the EU forcing their hand regarding refunds than Valve trying to engender goodwill with its consumer base

Not really, EU requires only refunds for non-working products. 14 day return period doesn't affect digital downloads.

 

[dex3108]

I guess both WB and CDPR have 24 hours to inform us what the hell is going on with Batman AK and W3 Patch. Both developers said that there will be more info this week.

 

[mrgone]

EVO Schedule, in a nice handy form. I'm excited for Ultimax, Xrd, Skullgirls, an absolute ton of Ultra and the Catherine side tournament. What are you guys going to be watching?

Holy shit, I didn't even know Catherine had multiplayer.

I just watched a video and I think it might be a better fighting game than Smash!

Spoiler

I kid. Mostly

It's been a side game at EVO since at least 2012 it seems, too. Mind blowing.

 

[Jawmuncher]

I never watch EVO I just wait for the GIFs.
Though nothing after all these years has topped EVO moment 37 it seems to this day.

 

[Se7enSword]

There's an update for the Steam app? o_o

 

[Annubis]

^competitive catherine, wat. Ill have to watch that.

Same reaction here.

Spoiler

Ghost announcement for Catherine 2?

 

[Dr Dogg]

My thoughts also. Something like this almost has to be crowd-sourced extensively for the subset of data to mean anything at all. I thought about starting out with simple things like "Do you feel the game is well optimized?" - while highly subjective, if enough people answered that question Enhanced Steam could now show something like "78% of people felt the game was not well optimized". And the same for questions like "Is the framerate capped?" which could give us data like "94% of users reported that the framerate was capped". It's also easy to digest for the user submitting the data, as they get a simple Yes | No | I'm not sure answer box.

It'd be better than nothing, and could provide us with a jumping off point at least.

Yeah definitely. Although something like limits on resolution and framerate generally will effect everyone there are methods to circumvent this so data might come back varied when it shouldn't but as you said it's a great jumping off point. I do feel optimisation is something no one knows, let alone be able to prove, so I don't know if asking something more broad like performance consistency or scalability of settings might be better served. I think jut a few key criteria (like 4 or 5 points) and sticking to simple yes/no answers so it's something someone can rattle off a survey/questionnaire in no time.

I think more importantly like you say the information presented has to be easily digestible by the ES user, not just those reporting but those who would use the info too. What you've said should inform then instantaneously. Something that is wordy like a performance breakdown isn't going to be read by quite a lot of people but a simple bit of into like Framerate: Unlocked or Performance: 94% Users recommend gives info succinctly with no waffle.

 

[Jazz573]

There's an update for the Steam app? o_o

I didn't know you also lived in the ME. You, Lord and Milamber should all get together.

 

[Se7enSword]

I didn't know you also lived in the ME. You, Lord and Milamber should all get together.

I don't live there.

I just travel there for a month every year.

 

[corrosivefrost]

Colonial Marines is pretty good. If you like 90s b rated FPS. It's comparable to Duke Nukem Forever. Which I also liked.

Agree.

^competitive catherine, wat. Ill have to watch that.

Seems odd...

 

[Uzzy]

I never watch EVO I just wait for the GIFs.
Though nothing after all these years has topped EVO moment 37 it seems to this day.

I'd be surprised if anything topped that. There's been plenty of great matches, great sets and the like (Garireo's come back in last year's BlazBlue finals was exceptionally impressive), but as singular moments go, Moment 37 is like Maradona's second goal against England in 86. Or the Helmet Catch in Superbowl XLII.

 

[Caerith]

Well the gaming community has always been chock full of charming individuals that I'm baffled why creators are so standoffish.

On a more serious note this is what I proposed a while back.

Though on reflection dropping the Maximum idea and just have a resolution and high framerate requirement might be a better idea (but it was actual data of what was required for a specific game and showed good scalability). At the very least I do feel like providing details on a games capabilities and if there any limitations in place before asking for money would be in the consumers best interest. Can you imagine buying a car only to find out that 4th and 5th gear had been locked off due to drivechain instability? There would be litigation until the cows come home.

Since Steam (optionally) has our hardware specs, it'd be nice if when you looked at the store page it would show you what you'd be getting. Kinda like the "can you run it" test. Go a step further maybe and have checkboxes in the store search function so you can filter by games you can or can't run and at what settings, etc.

Oh my, I feel this is in reference to something I will understand soon. I'm actually very blind on both titles outside of reception.

You said buying both would be "heaven and hell," so I referenced the "heaven or hell" mode in Devil May Cry, where everything (including you) only had 1 HP.

 

[Dr Dogg]

This is new right?


Or am I just a little out the loop due to no internet?

 

[Widdly Scuds]

This is new right?

it's had a store page for a while

also here's a taste of competitive catherine

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCUT7Jrr6dE

some nsfw language

 

[Zia]

Since I'm sure it's a pointless ask in the OT, is Rocket League better with a controller or KB+M?

 

[iosefe]

Since I'm sure it's a pointless ask in the OT, is Rocket League better with a controller or KB+M?

Better with a controller. The KB/m controls are serviceable if you are just starting out, but the controller really is recommended

 

[Dr Dogg]

Since Steam (optionally) has our hardware specs, it'd be nice if when you looked at the store page it would show you what you'd be getting. Kinda like the "can you run it" test. Go a step further maybe and have checkboxes in the store search function so you can filter by games you can or can't run and at what settings, etc.

Be interesting to see if the SteamOS requirements thing they had planned comes to fruition. I think krejlooc said something about it a while back that it would actually tell you what hardware you would need to run said game and would let you scale settings based on framerate a bit like GeForce Experience does.

it's had a store page for a while

also here's a taste of competitive catherine

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCUT7Jrr6dE

some nsfw language

Makes sense as the community discussion starts on the 16th June.

Also right up until day 9 of Catherine I'm a wiz but that last sequence even on Normal required some fast hands.

 

[Zia]

Better with a controller. The KB/m controls are serviceable if you are just starting out, but the controller really is recommended

Cool, thanks.