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[nkarafo]

It's pretty obvious PC games nowadays are more bloated than ever.

But what if the STEAM machine actually becomes a huge success? Then developers will absolutely have to optimize their their PC ports instead of letting the hardware brute force their job for them. They won't afford their games to run like shit on the successful STEAM machine, will they?

And i don't think this will regress visuals or anything. It will only mean that games will have better performance at lower specs without needing a PC that's 2X more powerful than a current console to run games at console settings. You will still be able to enable path tracing on your fancy 5090 or run games at 4K/120fps on it.

 

[Guilty_AI]

GabeCube specs more or less follow the most used hardware in the steam survey, so i assume every dev already does that (or whatever concept of optimization they follow)

 

[deeptech]

Could be, if hardware sells a bunch, which I honestly do not see.

 

[winjer]

It's a bit naive to think that studios will just start optimizing their games.
The only thing they understand is money. And even that, not always.
Unless people vote with their wallets, studios won't change their stance on releasing games in an unfinished state.

 

[RoboFu]

The most used gpu on steam is a 3060 8gig. Most gamers play in 1080p.

Pc games are for the most part very scalable to begin with.

Some devs have already started adding steam deck settings into pc games. That will be the " optimized " setting along with LOW , MED, HIGH, ULTRA. That have become standard.

 

[PeteBull]

By the time of holidays 2027 when both ps6 and xbox pc launch, gabecube gonna be considered irrelevant coz of its super weak specs, its below base ps5 in gpu power and 8gigs of vram already not doing it any favours

 

[HerjansEagleFeeder]

OP is on point. I think the Steam Deck achieved this to some degree already. The Gabecube will further cement that.

 

[pudel]

GabeCube specs more or less follow the most used hardware in the steam survey, so i assume every dev already does that (or whatever concept of optimization they follow)

Yeah, but its really not the time anymore for 8gig VRAM...they should have gone with 16gig. But who cares, everyone can build their own pc and make it a "steambox". Its not like you are being stuck with their little box.

 

[Vlodril]

If it was a huge success maybe but i think that is pretty impossible judging by their previous efforts. Things will remain as they are.

 

[nkarafo]

It's a bit naive to think that studios will just start optimizing their games.
The only thing they understand is money. And even that, not always.
Unless people vote with their wallets, studios won't change their stance on releasing games in an unfinished state.

That's what i'm discussing.

I know studios don't give a shit about optimizations.... Unless they are forced to do it?

They are forced to optimize them on consoles because otherwise their games would be received poorly and sell poorly as the result.

STEAM machine may do the same for PC ports. If its successful, studios will need to make games be able to have decent performance on it, for the same reason.

It's not about what they want to do, it's about what they are forced to do, poor things.

 

[Lupin3]

Unless people vote with their wallets,

Buying the Steam Machine en masse would be one way of voting. Now we wait for the price.

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

By the time of holidays 2027 when both ps6 and xbox pc launch, gabecube gonna be considered irrelevant coz of its super weak specs, its below base ps5 in gpu power and 8gigs of vram already not doing it any favours

There will not be any major games that would be exclusively run on PS6 other than maybe one Sony first party game. And Xbox PC would have no exclusives at all and be overpriced.

Valve is offering something that is "good enough", I trust them. You can throw around expensive hardware anyway you want, i don't expect anyone to take advantage of them for a few years after launch.

 

[nkarafo]

Some devs have already started adding steam deck settings into pc games. That will be the " optimized " setting along with LOW , MED, HIGH, ULTRA. That have become standard.

The Steam deck is a portable that can afford crappy looking textures due to screen size.

Games won't afford to look like that on a living room setting. They will have to look at least as close as the console versions as possible. Otherwise there will be complaints and complains bring bad reviews and word of mouth and bad reviews and word of mouth bring bad sales.

 

[Bojanglez]

By the time of holidays 2027 when both ps6 and xbox pc launch, gabecube gonna be considered irrelevant coz of its super weak specs, its below base ps5 in gpu power and 8gigs of vram already not doing it any favours

I think sometimes we (as a self slecting group of people obsessed enough to go on gaming forums) overestimate how much power and high end components are valued by 'normal' gamers.

Valve themselves have said that this box represents a convenient update path for users they see in their stats that are playing on hardware only capable of much less (e.g. 1080p/60). If they can offer those people a box that is reasonably priced and can (through optimisation and tech like FSR) allow them to play games 4k/60 then they will be happy and can probably carve out a decent market,

This then offers a baseline profile for developers to target (as OP suggests). People that want more powerful PCs can still do so and I'd imagine 3rd parties will flood the market with essentially high powered SteamMachine alternatives once Valve open access and hardware support up wider, by that time the baseline will be established and those machines will outperform their traditional (Windows based) alternatives.

 

[bbeach123]

Best we can do is 30fps 648p upscaled to 1080p with fsr3 .

 

[Gaiff]

By the time of holidays 2027 when both ps6 and xbox pc launch, gabecube gonna be considered irrelevant coz of its super weak specs, its below base ps5 in gpu power and 8gigs of vram already not doing it any favours

The usual RTX 3060 is 12GB, one of NVIDIA's greatest mistakes along with the GTX 1080 Ti.

 

[nkarafo]

Yeah, but its really not the time anymore for 8gig VRAM...

I agree but games don't have to look like shit on 8GB either.

Some games that exceed this limit force you to use medium textures and in some cases, medium textures look even worse than low textures of past games that run on even lower VRAM limits.

That's because studios don't care. But if the STEAM machine is successful, they will be forced to care and make textures look decent enough on 8GB cards.

 

[justiceiro]

But when I said the same about Xbox series s, everyone lost their shit, cursed the console and cried how that console was "limiting developers creativity". Curious to see how this will go.

 

[Alexios]

Just like the Steam Deck, some games will work well on it, some developers will wanna be Machine/Deck verified if they think it boosts sales, others will not (for most because they were already low end games so it was super trivial to get it to pass the verification, not something they had to work hard after the fact for higher end games). It's just another low spec PC like thousands of others before and after it. Don't expect 4K 120fps GTAVI Ultra settings magical optimizations and without visual regressions as you dream, lmao. The Switch sold gazillions and that didn't mean every AAA game was made to fit such a low spec, it was a rare miracle port when it received ambitious games like The Witcher 3. The Switch 2 will have way more of an impact than the Machine in the spec level games are made/optimized for the next few years. They aren't gonna increase development costs making two sets of textures over automatically (methods vary & improve) adjusting the given max quality to the lower specs (naturally with worse results than games that were made for that spec as max) for <2% of Steam users, if they don't for its >30% of low end systems (>80% if including mid range)​

 

[Poppinfresh]

It's not going to sell well enough compared to handhelds for developers to care.

 

[The Cockatrice]

its an indie console, AA and AAA games will never optimize their stuff. It has no chance of competing with consoles. Im assuming it'll be super cheap for ppl who just enjoy chill games.

 

[pudel]

I agree but games don't have to look like shit on 8GB either.

Some games that exceed this limit force you to use medium textures and in some cases, medium textures look even worse than low textures of past games that run on even lower VRAM limits.

That's because studios don't care. But if the STEAM machine is successful, they will be forced to care and make textures look decent enough on 8GB cards.

16gig would be just less noise and trouble...imho.

 

[PeteBull]

The usual RTX 3060 is 12GB, one of NVIDIA's greatest mistakes along with the GTX 1080 Ti.

They sometimes indeed make some of their cards "too good" =D

 

[nkarafo]

But when I said the same about Xbox series s, everyone lost their shit, cursed the console and cried how that console was "limiting developers creativity". Curious to see how this will go.

Well, if it means anything, i didn't say that.

IMO, limiting developers in some ways is always good because it forces creative thinking and better optimizations. You only have to look at older games and see the tricks they had to do to make good visuals and force good performance.

Nowadays they don't care, the more you give them the more bloated games become. Games become more and more demanding yet the visuals look barely better most of the time.

Brute forcing bad code with more powerful hardware should not be the way of developing PC ports.

16gig would be just less noise and trouble...imho.

For you or for the developer?

I don't mind the developer having more trouble. It's better than them not caring at all.

 

[Gaiff]

They sometimes indeed make some of their cards "too good" =D

Yep. 60% faster than its predecessor and only $700 with 11GB of VRAM. That's the equivalent of a $900 RTX 4090.

 

[DavidGzz]

Why weren't people this nice about the Series S around here? Gabe never loses, baby.

 

[winjer]

Buying the Steam Machine en masse would be one way of voting. Now we wait for the price.

Plenty of 8GB GPUs on the market. Just this year, AMD and Nvidia released more of them.
Yet, studios do little to nothing to optimize their own games.

 

[PeteBull]

I think sometimes we (as a self slecting group of people obsessed enough to go on gaming forums) overestimate how much power and high end components are valued by 'normal' gamers.

Valve themselves have said that this box represents a convenient update path for users they see in their stats that are playing on hardware only capable of much less (e.g. 1080p/60). If they can offer those people a box that is reasonably priced and can (through optimisation and tech like FSR) allow them to play games 4k/60 then they will be happy and can probably carve out a decent market,

This then offers a baseline profile for developers to target (as OP suggests). People that want more powerful PCs can still do so and I'd imagine 3rd parties will flood the market with essentially high powered SteamMachine alternatives once Valve open access and hardware support up wider, by that time the baseline will be established and those machines will outperform their traditional (Windows based) alternatives.

Gabecube isnt made to be gaming baseline in 2025, hell it will only launch in 2026, and before any sizeable amount of untis are in buyers hands (so holidays 2027 or later)it will be irrelevant coz of its very outdated specs.
Devs wont make it baseline when its 1-2m units sold, they could start taking it into account at 10m+ units sold but if it sells that many it will be already too late coz we will be deep into next gen by that time.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

You need steam deck for that. Or Series S RAM.

Gabe cube is still too powerful to accommodate poor optimisation.

 

[kruis]

I think sometimes we (as a self slecting group of people obsessed enough to go on gaming forums) overestimate how much power and high end components are valued by 'normal' gamers.

Valve themselves have said that this box represents a convenient update path for users they see in their stats that are playing on hardware only capable of much less (e.g. 1080p/60). If they can offer those people a box that is reasonably priced and can (through optimisation and tech like FSR) allow them to play games 4k/60 then they will be happy and can probably carve out a decent market,

This then offers a baseline profile for developers to target (as OP suggests). People that want more powerful PCs can still do so and I'd imagine 3rd parties will flood the market with essentially high powered SteamMachine alternatives once Valve open access and hardware support up wider, by that time the baseline will be established and those machines will outperform their traditional (Windows based) alternatives.

A GabeCube as a cheap gaming PC might make sense for budget PC gamers who already own a 1080p/1440p monitor. But this thing is also meant to compete with consoles. Price wise it will likely have to compete with the PS5 and Xbox Series X that are primarily used with 4K HDTV. It's not a good look if the Steam Machine sells for roughly the same price as Sony's and MS' offerings but can't compete visually with them. This thing will not be future proof.

 

[Ozzie666]

The beauty of a true console is the limitations and restrictions developers have to work with. PC is usually a mess because of the unlimited power and developers thinking brute force or new tech will fix their unoptimized mess. Even with an increase in PC game sales for companies like Capcom, they sitll treat the product as secondary compared to console versions.

If the box sells well enough maybe developers will release offocial Steambox profiles for their games for optimal settings, still not fully optmized - but it's a start.

 

[Danjin44]

I find that hilarious! I remember PC players shitting on Console for "holding PC back" but now this thing which is weaker that base PS5 is going help PC now….how times change.

 

[pudel]

For you or for the developer?

I don't mind the developer having more trouble. It's better than them not caring at all.

For both. Its like creating an "xbox s" scenario on purpose. <- this was very bad! Its a roadblock!

 

[NeoIkaruGAF]

It's pretty obvious PC games nowadays are more bloated than ever.

But what if the STEAM machine actually becomes a huge success? Then developers will absolutely have to optimize their their PC ports instead of letting the hardware brute force their job for them. They won't afford their games to run like shit on the successful STEAM machine, will they?

I had the same thought.
But:

It's a bit naive to think that studios will just start optimizing their games.
The only thing they understand is money. And even that, not always.
Unless people vote with their wallets, studios won't change their stance on releasing games in an unfinished state.

 

[Rosoboy19]

I think It's more about the user. There is a psychological affect when you have a fixed spec box. If a game doesn't run well you just lower the settings or play something else.

Much less obsession over tinkering and upgrading and more time playing games. It can be freeing.

 

[nkarafo]

Plenty of 8GB GPUs on the market. Just this year, AMD and Nvidia released more of them.
Yet, studios do little to nothing to optimize their own games.

Because 12 and 16GBs are available so it's not the game's problem, it's your fault for not upgrading your hardware.

With Steam Machine this won't be an excuse.

 

[damidu]

lol no one will care to optimize for a device that'll at best sell couple millions.
they already don't care for %80 of steam survey

 

[nkarafo]

I find that hilarious! I remember PC players shitting on Console for "holding PC back" but now this thing which is weaker that base PS5 is going help PC now….how times change.

Personally i loved it when consoles were "holding PCs back" because i could enjoy better looking and performing PC ports.

 

[Poppinfresh]

If Valve wanted to be really competitive, they would come up with a streaming solution similar to what Sony is doing with the Portal.

Being able to stream most games in your Steam library directly from Valve's servers to the Steam Console, Steam Frame, or Steam Deck would be an absolute game-changer

 

[ShaiKhulud1989]

Most popular PC games are not available on Steam. Machine will dictate nothing, consoles will always be the optimization floor.

 

[HerjansEagleFeeder]

its an indie console, AA and AAA games will never optimize their stuff. It has no chance of competing with consoles. Im assuming it'll be super cheap for ppl who just enjoy chill games.

We are surely not the target audience. You can personalize it with the face plates. Etsy will be full of this stuff, and women will love it. Parents will give the Steam machine to their children as their first PC. For some, it will be their ticket to finally learn Linux. For others, it'll be a nice toy to play around with hardware modding, overclocking etc. For many, it'll be an affordable way into PC gaming.

 

[pudel]

Why weren't people this nice about the Series S around here? Gabe never loses, baby.

Because every pc can be a steammachine. Its not that tragic as if xbox or playstation comes underpowered and stays like that for the next 6-7 years.

 

[mrMUR_96]

This is pure valve simping. Why excuse their cost cutting to kneecap their gpu.

 

[winjer]

Because 12 and 16GBs are available so it's not the game's problem, it's your fault for not upgrading your hardware.

With Steam Machine this won't be an excuse.

They will just look at the Steam machine as a low end hardware and say gamers just need to use low quality settings and upscaling.

 

[nkarafo]

This is pure valve simping. Why excuse their cost cutting to kneecap their gpu.

I don't care about Valve, i just want better optimized PC ports.

 

[yamaci17]

I agree but games don't have to look like shit on 8GB either.

Some games that exceed this limit force you to use medium textures and in some cases, medium textures look even worse than low textures of past games that run on even lower VRAM limits.

That's because studios don't care. But if the STEAM machine is successful, they will be forced to care and make textures look decent enough on 8GB cards.

majority of games look decent with medium/high textures (instead of ultra textures) at 1080p/1440p. the ones who don't are extreme outliers that people can't stop talking about for some reason (and some of those games happen to be games that are horribly optimized for all hardware usually, especially monster hunter wilds)

most studios do care and they're already being forced to care

if it wasn't that way, I would've abandoned my 3070 a long time ago

 

[Danjin44]

Personally i loved it when consoles were "holding PCs back" because i could enjoy better looking and performing PC ports.

Back then PC players actively angry at consoles for "holding them back"……now attitudes changed, I just find that funny as fuck.

 

[Mr Moose]

Plenty of cards still supported that are weaker than the one in it.

 

[nkarafo]

They will just look at the Steam machine as a low end hardware and say gamers just need to use low quality settings and upscaling.

Depends on how successful it will be i guess.

Back then PC players actively angry at consoles for "holding them back"……now attitudes changed, I just find that funny as fuck.

Because back then you had games that actually targeted PCs, like Crysis for instance. Devs would use the PC's extra power to make more advanced games. That's why they saw consoles as holding games back.

This isn't the case anymore, PCs are nothing more than console port machines. And those ports shouldn't need that much more powerful hardware to run decently.

 

[xrnzaaas]

That's what happening with the consoles. No matter how shitty UE5 may be the devs still need to optimize the console ports to offer at least decent performance. On PC it's very easy to have an excuse that your rig is too weak and you should tweak it or upgrade.

Now imagine if we had new console models every year or once every 2-3 years. You can't run our game on PlayStation 27? Buy PlayStation 28 and it'll be fixed.