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STEAM | November 2014 - Ride of the Valkyries

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Copons

Member
I'm sorry, as I've never played a Halo after the very first back then (and I completely forgot all of it), what's the big deal regarding ADS and sprint?

I mean, lack of ADS and sprint are (were) considered Halo's predominant traits? Like, "if you can't look down your gun it must be Halo"?

I'm a bit drowsy now, but I can't recall any other modern FPS without ADS, so it must be really natural at this point, and I don't see a downside of it being used in the new Halo.
Or is the fuss just that with ADS Halo would be "just another random FPS"?
 
so only Valve are left now our of the big guys? pls stick to no ADS and such

I've given up all modern shooters thanks in no small part to hit markers. One day I hope the industry reverses course but since most kids now will have grown up on CoD thinking this is the norm i doubt that will ever happen.
 

Chariot

Member
narrated by Chariot
Haha.

Btw. I have trouble understanding the terrible implications of ADS and sprint. Is it really that gameplay destroying? Are those two things the only thing that parts CoD and Halo? (I never played any Halo).
 

iosefe

Member
I'm sorry, as I've never played a Halo after the very first back then (and I completely forgot all of it), what's the big deal regarding ADS and sprint?

I mean, lack of ADS and sprint are (were) considered Halo's predominant traits? Like, "if you can't look down your gun it must be Halo"?

I'm a bit drowsy now, but I can't recall any other modern FPS without ADS, so it must be really natural at this point, and I don't see a downside of it being used in the new Halo.
Or is the fuss just that with ADS Halo would be "just another random FPS"?
A lack of ADS is an arena shooter staple, when halo first came out, it was the console version of the arena shooter, and it kept the same basic design for years. Adding ADS and Sprint instead puts it in like with other modern shooters, instead of bits own unique experience
 

Nabs

Member
Cook, Serve, Delicious: Too Many Cooks Edition is on sale for $4.99 (50%)

Okay, it's not called that, but whatever.

 

alr1ght

bish gets all the credit :)
I'm sorry, as I've never played a Halo after the very first back then (and I completely forgot all of it), what's the big deal regarding ADS and sprint?

I mean, lack of ADS and sprint are (were) considered Halo's predominant traits? Like, "if you can't look down your gun it must be Halo"?

I'm a bit drowsy now, but I can't recall any other modern FPS without ADS, so it must be really natural at this point, and I don't see a downside of it being used in the new Halo.
Or is the fuss just that with ADS Halo would be "just another random FPS"?

amirox put it best
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=138038950#post138038950

A GUIDE TO WHY PEOPLE ARE ANNOYED FOR THE UNINITIATED

The year is 2014. The multiplayer FPS genre has been dominated by a very specific brand of aim down sights/sprint based shooters, which started really exploding with the popularity of Call of Duty. Since then, for the majority of shooters... if you want to play them, you have to deal with that type of combat and gameplay.

But there existed a time before Call of Duty. A time when Unreal Tournament and Quake existed, which were some of the most finely tuned and blazingly fast FPS multiplayer experiences ever made to this day. A time when Return to Castle Wolfenstein multiplayer was so sweetly balanced that it didn't need to hold your hand so you could hit something. The gameplay itself was so engaging and so competitive that you felt compelled to get better, and didn't need a constant feed of positive reinforcement to do so. You didn't need level ups and fuckin' attachments and stat differentials; it wasn't how much you grinded that mattered, but how much of the accumulated skill sets you internalized.

Halo existed in the between time, right when consoles were starting to be really feasible for competitive FPS titles. And it added some new things, yes, but it was still very much rooted in an older tradition, one where again it was simply skill vs. skill and the pace was entirely governed by the rules it played by which remained a staple.

Consider where we are today. One of the reasons people were so furious about Tomb Raider 2013 is that it destroyed entirely a gametype that literally no longer exists in the industry, replacing it with something we see every other goddamn day. It may have been acceptable in some remote way if we had a world where the older genre was thriving, but we don't. And it's not like the older genre was bad (quite the contrary, it remains amongst the best ideas ever had in gaming) - it's just newer gamers were conditioned to have their hands held to such an extreme that they no longer could adjust to those old gameplay ideals.

The same is true of Halo. Because there are extremely few games anymore in the old tradition. Almost no games in the old Halo tradition. They simply don't exist, squeezed out of existence by whining new fans who couldn't adjust, couldn't acquire the skill sets, and therefore demanded the few remaining vestiges of this amazing older style to be expunged. So now Halo too is becoming like all those other "me-too" shooters, and where does that leave those who actually liked that older tradition? With few if any options left.

And that's just part of the issue.

Because maybe if there was some way to do ADS/Sprint and still make it feel like Halo, people would accept it. But as demonstrated with Halo 4, there isn't. It destroyed the heart and soul of the multiplayer and the community simply abandoned it, full stop. They catered to people who did not fucking care and the result is the series cratered.

When you have ADS/Sprint, it changes the entire ebb and flow of the combat. Where before you had "Run and Gun" characteristics, now you have "Run or Gun" flow, where people are either slowing/stopping to shoot through iron sights or then engaging sprint to get out of dodge. This literally transforms the way a traditional Halo match used to go. And it doesn't transform it into something better, but something vastly different, with lower skill requirements and that feels like a billion other shooters on the market.


You don't have to be a fan of Halo to understand why this is so problematic to so many.

I don't really care about Halo, but CODifying has ruined many games I enjoy so I can empathize.
 

Zafir

Member
I love the thread about ADS in Halo. So much outrage and there's me thinking "WTF IS ADS?". No one even said what it was until post 50 or something. Shows how little I play shooters I guess, lol.
 

Copons

Member
A lack of ADS is an arena shooter staple, when halo first came out, it was the console version of the arena shooter, and it kept the same basic design for years. Adding ADS and Sprint instead puts it in like with other modern shooters, instead of bits own unique experience

amirox put it best
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=138038950#post138038950

I don't really care about Halo, but CODifying has ruined many games I enjoy so I can empathize.

Thanks both, you made it very clear. :)
 

agniswarm

Banned
4 keys!!

Sadly just 1 :(


AYkuqGB.png
 
Man, Rockstar really did kind of fuck up San Andreas, the frame rate limiter is busted and they implemented the most basic controller support ever, no Xbox icons or nothing just, "To kill this buster press JOY14 and JOY47."
 

Jawmuncher

Member
Man, Rockstar really did kind of fuck up San Andreas, the frame rate limiter is busted and they implemented the most basic controller support ever, no Xbox icons or nothing just, "To kill this buster press JOY14 and JOY47."

and people wonder why us controller players loved when the 360 controller became standard.
 
and people wonder why us controller players loved when the 360 controller became standard.

Yeah I love my 360 controller and how easy it is to use/work in most games, just shows how lazy (literally lazy, not jokingly saying lazy) Rockstar was with this "update", been really disappointed in their PC related stuff lately...
 

Saty

Member
http://www.bluesnews.com/s/156516/steam-top-10
Valve reveals the following list of the bestselling titles on Steam last week:

1.Call of Duty: Advanced Warfare
2.Football Manager 2015
3.The Binding of Isaac Rebirth
4.Call of Duty: Advanced Warfare Digital Pro Edition
5.Sid Meier's Civilization: Beyond Earth
6.Farming Simulator 15
7.Counter-Strike: Global Offensive
8.Wolfenstein: The New Order
9.Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel
10.Banished
 

Vuze

Member
I love the thread about ADS in Halo. So much outrage and there's me thinking "WTF IS ADS?". No one even said what it was until post 50 or something. Shows how little I play shooters I guess, lol.

I feel you lol
I watched that 7 second footage and was like "eeeeeeh alright so why is everybody going into rage mode and claiming that the devs hate their fans" ahaha
 

Locust

Member
If any of you guys ever bought a bundle with Tales of Maj'Eyal before it got to Steam and registered the code on te4.org, you should have some funbux there you can use to get Steam keys for both of its DLC for free. :p
 

lashman

Steam-GAF's Official Ambassador to Gaming-GAF
Yeah I love my 360 controller and how easy it is to use/work in most games, just shows how lazy (literally lazy, not jokingly saying lazy) Rockstar was with this "update", been really disappointed in their PC related stuff lately...

well - Rockstar are the grandfathers of "This is PC only, who cares." after all ;)
 

MadGear

Member
Well i loved Halo to death, just as much as i loved the "genre" of the arena shooters in general. However, i don't really get why people actually seem surprised by this. After ruining Halo 4s MP (imo the Singleplayer is just as bad, but thats a different thing) it was so obvious that 343 considered the Arena Shooter approach of past Halo games as outdated. Thus they tried to modernize it the same way different studios tried to modernize their games (aka coping CoD), but they didn't fully commit to it. Thus Halo 4 was some bizarre hybrid that tried to appeal to both, the old Halo Fans and these "modern Shooter Fans". In the end, that game didn't appeal to anyone and rightfully so, its MP died a quick death. So with ADS it just seems that they finally commit to one fanbase and not surprisingly but sadly this is not the Halo fanbase.
 
TR2013 was about as good as UC3.
Which itself was OK at best.

I didn't even care about it not being a TR game but the set pieces just to have set pieces with a story that was just bad did not help my enjoyment.

Still wish we would have gotten this.
eU82LmC.png

I liked TR2013 more than any Uncharted.
And considering Uncharted 3 is just slightly behind Uncharted in my rankings for that franchise (which is to say it's almost number 1 on my list), that's high praise.

And the story was fun. I liked it.
Enough that I was beyond hyped for RotTR and even more stoked that I had a copy of it coming... until it's now un-announced for PC until God only knows when.

Oh shit that looks nuts! What heist is that?

The latest community heist in which you break Hoxton out of prison. It's day 2 in the FBI headquarters.
 

Jawmuncher

Member
I liked TR2013 more than any Uncharted.
And considering Uncharted 3 is just slightly behind Uncharted in my rankings for that franchise (which is to say it's almost number 1 on my list), that's high praise.

And the story was fun. I liked it.
Enough that I was beyond hyped for RotTR and even more stoked that I had a copy of it coming... until it's now un-announced for PC until God only knows when.



The latest community heist in which you break Hoxton out of prison. It's day 2 in the FBI headquarters.

UC2 still stands as the only action platformer that I have really liked. Still interested in RoTTR. Since I'm hoping that it fixed my issues with 1.
 

Dongs Macabre

aka Daedalos42
I love the thread about ADS in Halo. So much outrage and there's me thinking "WTF IS ADS?". No one even said what it was until post 50 or something. Shows how little I play shooters I guess, lol.

Halo is all about movement while shooting. ADS slow down your movement and the game quickly becomes just people standing still and shooting at each other, which completely shits on the Halo formula. It also obscures your vision with a giant-ass gun and sight. Also, a huge problem with Halo 4 was that your gun gets knocked up a bit instead of being zoomed out when shot, which is a core mechanic of previous Halo games. The addition of ADS likely means that this flinch mechanic will replace descoping.

343 tried chasing the COD crowd already with Halo 4, and what they got was the population dropping to laughable levels after a couple of weeks.

Adding ADS and keeping Sprint shows that they aren't listening to the vast majority of Halo's fans who don't want to see their favourite video game series become just another COD clone and then die. If they don't remove these things for the final game, there's no way in hell I'll ever be getting an Xbox One. It's pretty disappointing, since I've had so much fun playing Halo with people from Halo communities and HaloGAF. I really don't want to see Halo die like this.
 

MUnited83

For you.
I'm sorry, as I've never played a Halo after the very first back then (and I completely forgot all of it), what's the big deal regarding ADS and sprint?

I mean, lack of ADS and sprint are (were) considered Halo's predominant traits? Like, "if you can't look down your gun it must be Halo"?

I'm a bit drowsy now, but I can't recall any other modern FPS without ADS, so it must be really natural at this point, and I don't see a downside of it being used in the new Halo.
Or is the fuss just that with ADS Halo would be "just another random FPS"?

ADS and Sprint massively slow down the gameplay and lower the skill requirements. It changes the game into something completely different that doesn't fee like a Halo or a arena shooter at all. It's basically Call of Duty now.
 

Grief.exe

Member
We need grief to start a movement to bring DC games to Steam.

I'm sorry, as I've never played a Halo after the very first back then (and I completely forgot all of it), what's the big deal regarding ADS and sprint?

I mean, lack of ADS and sprint are (were) considered Halo's predominant traits? Like, "if you can't look down your gun it must be Halo"?

I'm a bit drowsy now, but I can't recall any other modern FPS without ADS, so it must be really natural at this point, and I don't see a downside of it being used in the new Halo.
Or is the fuss just that with ADS Halo would be "just another random FPS"?

Sprint is not a big deal, but ADS changes the way the game is meant to be played. ADS mechanics root the player in place while giving the player easier targets, this clashes against Halos original gameplay design.
 

Freezard

Member
I'm one of those old-school FPS players who played UT99 for over 10 years and I do really hate the sprint/ADS that exists in every modern online FPS game. I mean sometimes it does fit in games like CoD and the more realistic FPS games but I don't think it's necessary in every game and especially not in Halo. I've played every Halo game and I see them as arcade styled FPS games just like UT/Quake, everything doesn't need to be realistic. I'm a huge Serious Sam fan as well and when I saw them adding sprint/ADS to Serious Sam 3 I was like: is it really NEEDED? Yeah sure the levels are huge in the Serious Sam games but I hate the fact that you can't sprint and shoot at the same time, and reloading is super annoying as well. Both things just take focus off of the action which is what these types of games really is all about.
 

MUnited83

For you.
and people wonder why us controller players loved when the 360 controller became standard.

While I love that it being 'standard' has allowed for a good many games to use xinput and the follow-on that DS3/DS4s can now easily be used with just about any game, I have no love for the 360 controller itself.

UC2 still stands as the only action platformer that I have really liked. Still interested in RoTTR. Since I'm hoping that it fixed my issues with 1.

Uncharted 2 is flaming hot garbage and most definitely the worst in the series in terms of everything. The only thing it did well was refine a few of the combat mechanics... but in terms of presentation/pacing/story/etc. everything is better in 1, 3, and the Vita game not even made by Naughty Dog.

This is most likely because Uncharted 2 was unbelievably focused on adding multiplayer to the game (I still don't think it's a good fit and it just felt like a poor man's Gears that PS3 only players had to settle for). If you spend hundreds of development hours and tons of resources trying to get the multiplayer components right, it's no surprise that the campaign will be focused on gunplay and combat more than anything else...

If RotTR is more like Uncharted 2, Shadownet will end up getting a mulligan on that raffle because I won't have any interest in the game at that point.
 

Turfster

Member
Whenever I checked the top selling list this week CoD was barely getting on top 10, much less being 1st. Hell, by going to the top selling list right now the game doesn't show up at all, just the season pass.

The top selling list is kinda broken on the front page (what else is new, right?)
 

Zafir

Member
Halo is all about movement while shooting. ADS slow down your movement and the game quickly becomes just people standing still and shooting at each other, which completely shits on the Halo formula. It also obscures your vision with a giant-ass gun and sight. Also, a huge problem with Halo 4 was that your gun gets knocked up a bit instead of being zoomed out when shot, which is a core mechanic of previous Halo games. The addition of ADS likely means that this flinch mechanic will replace descoping.

343 tried chasing the COD crowd already with Halo 4, and what they got was the population dropping to laughable levels after a couple of weeks.

Adding ADS and keeping Sprint shows that they aren't listening to the vast majority of Halo's fans who don't want to see their favourite video game series become just another COD clone and then die. If they don't remove these things for the final game, there's no way in hell I'll ever be getting an Xbox One. It's pretty disappointing, since I've had so much fun playing Halo with people from Halo communities and HaloGAF. I really don't want to see Halo die like this.
Yeah, I kind of get the annoyance now I understand the background. I have some experience in Halo. Played quite a bit of the first two, and a very tiny bit of 3 and 4. My CoD experience on the other hand is very limited, only playing advanced warfare so I've no idea what CoD really introduced.

I like the idea of arena based shooters coming back, as I did enjoy them way back when. Unfortunately I totally suck at shooters these days so if they did, I just wouldn't play them due to getting owned over and over. Although CoD/Halo 4 isn't any easier to get into for me, despite the accusations that they require less skill. Shooters need better matchmaking. :(
 

Dongs Macabre

aka Daedalos42
Spring is not a big deal, but ADS changes the way the game is meant to be played. ADS mechanics root the player in place while giving the player easier targets, this clashes against Halos original gameplay design.

No, sprint is a huge deal. The only thing is does is make the maps bigger to compensate and make you have to choose between mobility and combat. Compare Guardian from Halo 3 with Haven from Halo 4 and you can see just how much sprint affects the size of the maps.
 
Character movement in Halo games is about as fast as moving around in ADS in COD.

ROFL.
Gotta love a world where a super soldier of epic legend can't use the sights on his weapon or run anywhere...

I'm so badass I'm required to hip-fire and walk to my objectives.

What is the higher rated program: Steam Mover or SteamTool?

I was using Steam Mover this week and it worked alright for me. Never tried Steam Tool.
 
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