Support NeoGAF

[STARSBarry]

Honestly I think no matter what Sony choose on Monday now the damage is done.

This will be Valve after receiving refund requests from people's who's countries don't support PSN. So even if Sony return this to optional as prior, I don't think valve will remove the restriction.

People are also highlighting the issue with Ghost of Tsushima only requiring it for legends. I suspect valve will play it safe and restrict the game to sell in only those countries that support PSN.

Honestly the only reason I can think of that someone would push for this after it being optional for so long is someone has it in there head that if they build enough of a PC user base with PSN sign in they can try a 2000's Microsoft and say PSN+ is required on PC to play Sony titles online. Afterall why should PC players get the same service for free that console players pay for? That seems unfair right?

Well it is but not fot the PC players.

 

[Clear]

How long are the console warriors going to keep defending what is clearly bullshit?

Wouldn't console warriors want it to fail though?
I mean there was much wailing and gnashing of teeth when Sony's games started appearing day#1 on PC, so PC players rejecting them and encouraging Sony to release only on console would be right up their alley?

Especially as by now, no doubt Helldivers 2 as turned a healthy profit, I can't see Sony being that bothered by the backlash.

More to the point, if they are mandating accounts for this, no doubt they'll want to be doing it for everything else going forwards, so I doubt they'll roll it back for that reason alone.

Maybe all this going to result in is Sony abandoning Steam and leaning more heavily on a store/launcher of their own going forwards?

 

[FunkMiller]

Wouldn't console warriors want it to fail though?
I mean there was much wailing and gnashing of teeth when Sony's games started appearing day#1 on PC, so PC players rejecting them and encouraging Sony to release only on console would be right up their alley?

Especially as by now, no doubt Helldivers 2 as turned a healthy profit, I can't see Sony being that bothered by the backlash.

More to the point, if they are mandating accounts for this, no doubt they'll want to be doing it for everything else going forwards, so I doubt they'll roll it back for that reason alone.

No. Absolutely not. This has been a success story for Sony. Up until now.

 

[Clear]

No. Absolutely not. This has been a success story for Sony. Up until now.

Its only affecting PC-bro's without PSN accounts though. So I don't see console warriors giving a damn, they don't want those people enjoying "their stuff".

Not supporting or validating that perspective, but let's be real here, people quit GAF/got banned because they were so upset about Sony franchises ending up on PC, its tribal!

 

[MikeM]

Some people have not been paying attention.

PC, to Sony, is just some extra revenue to support their console-business.
So losing some players is a non-issue.

Maybe this is a wake-up call for those that were hoping for something more. The new interim-CEO also stands by Playstation's current strategy.

You're completely missing the point: whatever comes from PC, is extra.

Playstation itself generates a massive amount of revenue.
But losing a portion of extra revenue isn't a big issue, since it's extra.

And indeed, "exclusives", because Sony knows day 1 will be a dumb decision.

Sony has been very clear about all this since 2019.


I'm willing to bet that most people whining about this non-issue are the same people that ran the "12tflops vs 9tflops"-narrative and that were claiming Xbox was going to destroy Sony with 2 SKUs and GamePass.

Shareholders should and will care, especially considering Sony’s last reported thin margins. They need all the extra they can get.

 

[Borowski_1]

So much for "Democracy"

 

[FunkMiller]

Its only affecting PC-bro's without PSN accounts though. So I don't see console warriors giving a damn, they don't want those people enjoying "their stuff".

Not supporting or validating that perspective, but let's be real here, people quit GAF/got banned because they were so upset about Sony franchises ending up on PC, its tribal!

Sony have tried and resolutely failed to get success in the PC market now for years. Now they finally have it, Sony warriors have seen it as a 'victory'. No matter how contradictory that is to what they may have believed previously.

Companies like Sony have done a brilliantly manipulative job of convincing many customers to support them whatever they do.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Shareholders should and will care, especially considering Sony’s last reported thin margins. They need all the extra they can get.

And their long-term plan is to release mainly multiplayer GaaS on PC.

This will all blow over and most whiners will return when the illuminate enter the game anyway.
We all know it.

 

[NEbeast]

Why will they have to pull out of steam?

Because people are allowed to leave negative reviews due to the additional stacked login that has no benefit to the consumer?

Didn't the devs say it was si Sony has the legal right to ban cheaters? They can't do that without getting people to agree to a EULA. They're no doubt getting reports of cheaters and there is nothing they can do to protect their own players. PC gamers have to sign up to various accounts for games, whe the fuck is it such a big problem now?

 

[Cyberpunkd]

Sony wants PSN accounts to brag to there investers about numbers.

 

[Clear]

Sony have tried and resolutely failed to get success in the PC market now for years. Now they finally have it, Sony warriors have seen it as a 'victory'. No matter how contradictory that is to what they may have believed previously.

Companies like Sony have done a brilliantly manipulative job of convincing many customers to support them whatever they do.

That's a stretch, I'm sure there are people who think that way, but I suspect some actively want Sony to be more like Nintendo.

And I'm sorry but the majority of hardcore Sony fanboys must have been around for years, long before GaaS became a thing.

I'd also add that there are lot of super-tribal people on PC too, particularly Steam. Because again there's no denying that EGS is absolutely haram for a good number of people! To the extent that they refuse to buy a game until it becomes available on Steam.

Point being, I simply do not believe ALL PC gamers speak with the same voice, I think the scene is most definitely big enough to support a variety of opinions.

 

[Ogbert]

Decisions like these are not, in and of themselves, the reason why a company loses direction.

But they're usually a reliable indicator. That sort of utterly pointless irritation that speaks of MBA nerds rather than genuine enthusiasts.

 

[ArtHands]

Honestly I think no matter what Sony choose on Monday now the damage is done.

This will be Valve after receiving refund requests from people's who's countries don't support PSN. So even if Sony return this to optional as prior, I don't think valve will remove the restriction.

People are also highlighting the issue with Ghost of Tsushima only requiring it for legends. I suspect valve will play it safe and restrict the game to sell in only those countries that support PSN.

Honestly the only reason I can think of that someone would push for this after it being optional for so long is someone has it in there head that if they build enough of a PC user base with PSN sign in they can try a 2000's Microsoft and say PSN+ is required on PC to play Sony titles online. Afterall why should PC players get the same service for free that console players pay for? That seems unfair right?

Well it is but not fot the PC players.

Valve dgaf because its not their mess. The top threads at Helldivers 2 subreddit right now are those of praising Steam for refund while mocking/criticizing Sony.

 

[cormack12]

I don't play on steam, but what is the psn account for? The overlays or something? Basically what's the advantage for the player or value?

 

[FoxMcChief]

What a shitty move. And people are still defending digital games.

I mean, it’s a PC game in 2024. Aren’t all PC games digital only?

 

[BlackTron]

Apparently in Ukraine you can't play make a PSN account with out a Playstation.

Japans new aid package for Ukraine to mysteriously includes a truck of game consoles

 

[CuNi]

Sony really shot themselves in the foot with this one.
The devs coming out and saying they weren't even really informed about the decision just makes it worse.

This will not only make PC Gamers think twice before buying future Sony games but also devs partnering with Sony.

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

Decisions like these are not, in and of themselves, the reason why a company loses direction.

But they're usually a reliable indicator. That sort of utterly pointless irritation that speaks of MBA nerds rather than genuine enthusiasts.

PS management urgently needs a shake-up. They need a director for each business unit, people with gaming experience instead of suits that jerk off at Excel sheets.

On a side note, it's rich seeing Valve fanboys calling others Sony fanboys. Most of those "fanboys" didn't want Sony games ported to PC and this drama is just proving them right, both because of Sony's incompetence and the PC warriors.

 

[djjinx2]

I don't play on steam, but what is the psn account for? The overlays or something? Basically what's the advantage for the player or value?

Cross play? Trophies?

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

But do they sell the online games in countries where Xbox network is not supported? That's the issue here. Sony is selling games in countries where they know damn well the person buying the game won't be able to play the game after the PSN login requirement goes into effect.

Well, to be honest, it is a less issue for Xbox as they don't sell that many consoles outside of USA anyway

Announcing this on a Friday was a real baller move, we're probably not gonna get an official response from Sony until Monday.

Well you usually announce bad news on Friday....

 

[Kerotan]

It’s kind of hilarious watching the return of PS3-era Sony, clutching defeat from the jaws of victory. In an alternate timeline, Sony didn’t mandate a PSN account for PC players and opted to sit on their asses, doing no additional work and continued raking in money.

There are many games on PSN where you have to sign into an account for another publisher.

Look at the list of countries they're not selling it in now. Sony won't be losing many sales.

 

[ActusReusJB]

Sony really can't catch a break.



Valve usually takes an off-hand approach in disputes like these. The only actions they take will be taking a looking at why the game is being reviewed bomb, and notifying the publisher that the game is being reviewed bomb.

The only time they will intervene is if government laws is involved. Or if the game contain explicit content.

I am wondering if this was viewed more as a PR opportunity for Valve. With the Ghosts of Tsushima announced overlay and trophies the writing is on the wall that Sony is headed for their own launcher and storefront, which could potentially mean no Steam release for future PC ports. The cynical part of me says Valve sees this competition incoming and wanted to both score a W and make Sony look bad.

 

[BlackTron]

There are many games on PSN where you have to sign into an account for another publisher.

Look at the list of countries they're not selling it in now. Sony won't be losing many sales.

But those games didn't retroactively switch on the requirement after making it possible for people in those countries to purchase and play the game for several months without it. If someone is unable to meet all the requirements to play the game they may accept it and move on. If they buy it and then it becomes a problem later you've kicked up a shitstorm of terrible PR with ripple effects.

 

[darth.shrimp]

There's at least 2 countries (territories?) in that list that I've never heard of lol. Surprised to see the overseas departments of France though...

Good on Steam to issue refunds for those regions, no questions asked.

 

[Holammer]

 

[Kerotan]

But those games didn't retroactively switch on the requirement after making it possible for people in those countries to purchase and play the game for several months without it. If someone is unable to meet all the requirements to play the game they may accept it and move on. If they buy it and then it becomes a problem later you've kicked up a shitstorm of terrible PR with ripple effects.

If you're in Afghanistan and you bought Helldivers on steam you can still play it. Sure you have to create a pan account on your PC. While you might not be able to play it in a playstation you can still sign into Helldivers on steam.

 

[BlackTron]

If you're in Afghanistan and you bought Helldivers on steam you can still play it. Sure you have to create a pan account on your PC. While you might not be able to play it in a playstation you can still sign into Helldivers on steam.

Huh? Point is there is a list of countries where it's restricted to make a PSN account. Making it impossible for some people who bought a working game to continue using it while being compliant and not using any workarounds.

 

[ManaByte]

Cross play? Trophies?

The PC version doesn't unlock PSN trophies.

 

[geary]

So much for "Democracy"

The gameplay loop worked against them. Having a group of people fighting a common goal....Irony...

 

[Mattyp]

The policy isn’t in effect yet, starts from May 30th.

Ahh fair play then.

 

[Kerotan]

Huh? Point is there is a list of countries where it's restricted to make a PSN account. Making it impossible for some people who bought a working game to continue using it while being compliant and not using any workarounds.

Can you not still make one in playstation.com? Like I'm in Europe but I made an American PSN. What's stop a little Talibani doing the same.

 

[Elios83]

One of the minor markets in question is China… which has the highest user population of any country on Steam.

They probably blocked 20-30% of their user base with this dumb move… after the fact which is even dumber.

Review bombing is well deserved and now they are going to get refunded to the wazoo by other people as well.

You're failing to see that Sony wants to be on PC playing by their rules.
So it's up to them to decide what they value more.
PC is not their primary platform, they obviously want PC to contribute to their ecosystem and have full control on community rules, bans and so on.
I wouldn't even be surprised if the long term goal is a PC store with a Playstation launcher.
The PSN login requirement was there since the beginning and only temporarily disabled:



The mistake imo was not to consider since the beginning what that meant for not officially PSN supported countries.
Steam has sold the game in markets where PSN is not officially supported and Sony didn't bother to check if that was ok and consistent with their plans.
We'll see if they can find a compromise or workaround for these countries but IMO the login stuff won't go away because they see it as integral part of their plans. We'll see what happens next week.

 

[Topher]

I don't play on steam, but what is the psn account for? The overlays or something? Basically what's the advantage for the player or value?

Cross play? Trophies?

There is no player benefit. No overlays. Trophies are not supported. Cross play is there already without PSN login.

 

[CoreyFlawless]

Read the negative reviews it isn't about account registration but about it being a cashgrab DLC sold as a full game. Just wait for the next CoD release.

Either way. The difference is, it be at launch. Not 5-6 months later after purchase and then u maybe in a country where you can’t play it anymore

 

[Bernoulli]

There is no player benefit. No overlays. Trophies are not supported. Cross play is there already without PSN login.

I hate all these companies making an account to start their game
Starting with call of duty even on console

 

[64bitmodels]

Ubisoft account ?
Epic account ?
Hoyoverse account ?
Battle.net account?
Activision account? (Different from B.net account ?)
Rockstar account?
Capcom ID account?
Riot game account?
Square Enix account? (Final Fantasy XIV or XI)
Bethesda account?

but, but that's not the same... T_T

no they're similar enough, and we hate them too.

I think you people need to realize that account signups have been a much maligned part of gaming for years, and Sony undoing their goodwill with Helldivers 2 just to add that shit in was the straw that broke the camel's back, hence the hate. espeically for a game as well recieved and championed as Helldivers 2.

 

[Duchess]

I hate all these companies making an account to start their game

It's even worse when it's a single player game. Ubisoft requires you to make an account to play the new Prince of Persia game, for fuck's sake.

 

[Topher]

It's even worse when it's a single player game. Ubisoft requires you to make an account to play the new Prince of Persia game, for fuck's sake.

I think this is all "big data" shit (as well as other marketing nonsense). Corporations want data as much as sales these days. For example, Microsoft is paying people to scan the grocery store receipts.

 

[adamsapple]

What a shitty move. And people are still defending digital games.

I don't know if being digital only has any factor here.

It's a live service game, it would need to go through several server layers anyway right? and once it had hit that mandatory PSN requirement layer, it would have had the same issue for the folks living in those regions where PSN doesn't exist.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

There are many games on PSN where you have to sign into an account for another publisher.

Look at the list of countries they're not selling it in now. Sony won't be losing many sales.

People act like Sony wasn't aware of potential loss of a few sales.

The game sold what? 8+M copies?
Most people don't give a fuck about having to create another account. It's standard practice nowadays.

 

[Three]

The devs coming out and saying they weren't even really informed about the decision just makes it worse.

The devs never really said that. It's been part of Helldivers 2 launch from the very beginning.

Either way. The difference is, it be at launch. Not 5-6 months later after purchase and then u maybe in a country where you can’t play it anymore

Why is <3 months constantly being turned into 5-6 months? It becomes 3 months on the 8th of May.

There are other games which retroactively added an account requirement that didn’t even have the warnings on the store page, again mostly positive and no review bombing. That is not the reason.

 

[StereoVsn]

You're failing to see that Sony wants to be on PC playing by their rules.
So it's up to them to decide what they value more.
PC is not their primary platform, they obviously want PC to contribute to their ecosystem and have full control on community rules, bans and so on.
I wouldn't even be surprised if the long term goal is a PC store with a Playstation launcher.
The PSN login requirement was there since the beginning and only temporarily disabled:



The mistake imo was not to consider since the beginning what that meant for not officially PSN supported countries.
Steam has sold the game in markets where PSN is not officially supported and Sony didn't bother to check if that was ok and consistent with their plans.
We'll see if they can find a compromise or workaround for these countries but IMO the login stuff won't go away because they see it as integral part of their plans. We'll see what happens next week.

I am not failing to see anything. I realize what Sony wants to do but the manner of the heavy-handiness and sheer stupidity in the implementation is mind boggling.

The issue is they pulled this shit months after launch and fucked over a large part of their user base in the process. Now I hope they enjoy distrust, resentment, returns and can expect all of this to transfer to their subsequent games.

 

[Topher]

I would say this guy would be a great candidate to become SIE's CEO, but he is far too honest.

 

[Elios83]

I am not failing to see anything. I realize what Sony wants to do but the manner of the heavy-handiness and sheer stupidity in the implementation is mind boggling.

The issue is they pulled this shit months after launch and fucked over a large part of their user base in the process. Now I hope they enjoy distrust, resentment, returns and can expect all of this to transfer to their subsequent games.

The requirement was there since the beginning.
It was temporarily disabled. This is something you're glossing over.
The mistake was not telling Steam what they had to do precisely in countries not officially supported by PSN, they might even have a dispute over who's paying the refunds on this.
Steam as a platform holder should have checked the situation by themselves since the beginning so what we're seeing now might even be them covering their asses.

About the rest it's just talk, show me a chart that shows that people are stopping to play the game on PC in mass and you would be right.That some people click on a dislike button and then continue to play the game is pretty irrelevant.

 

[Topher]

The devs never really said that. It's been part of Helldivers 2 launch from the very beginning.


Why is <3 months constantly being turned into 5-6 months? It becomes 3 months on the 8th of May.

There are other games which retroactively added an account requirement that didn’t even have the warnings on the store page, again mostly positive and no review bombing. That is not the reason.

Crowd mentality isn't always consistent. While this game is doing what other games have done (although this situation is stil rare even if not unique) it seems pretty clear that somehow this time people's buttons got pushed and they are reacting harshly and it has turned into a mob. Doesn't help when you have major youtubers fanning the fire. So at this point the only thing that really matters is how Sony responds.

 

[Spyxos]

I don't know if being digital only has any factor here.

It's a live service game, it would need to go through several server layers anyway right? and once it had hit that mandatory PSN requirement layer, it would have had the same issue for the folks living in those regions where PSN doesn't exist.

As far as I remember you could play psychical games from any country (multiplayer as well) because they were not connected to your psn account.

 

[StereoVsn]

The requirement was there since the beginning.
It was temporarily disabled. This is something you're glossing over.
The mistake was not telling Steam what they had to do precisely in countries not officially supported by PSN, they might even have a dispute over who's paying the refunds on this.
Steam as a platform holder should have checked the situation by themselves since the beginning so what we're seeing now might even be them covering their asses.

About the rest it's just talk, show me a chart that shows that people are stopping to play the game on PC in mass and you would be right.That some people click on a dislike button and then continue to play the game is pretty irrelevant.

The requirement is going in next week (or was it one after) so you won’t see any discrepancy till then most likely.

But that’s immaterial. If the above list isn’t enough for you to understand why folks are upset, well, keep stanning for the corpo, there isn’t much else to discuss.

 

[Topher]

The requirement was there since the beginning.
It was temporarily disabled. This is something you're glossing over.
The mistake was not telling Steam what they had to do precisely in countries not officially supported by PSN, they might even have a dispute over who's paying the refunds on this.
Steam as a platform holder should have checked the situation by themselves since the beginning so what we're seeing now might even be them covering their asses.

About the rest it's just talk, show me a chart that shows that people are stopping to play the game on PC in mass and you would be right.That some people click on a dislike button and then continue to play the game is pretty irrelevant.

There was a ton of confusion in the Steam forums as to whether the login was a requirement or not. So it stands to reason that with a game that has sold millions, many people did not know this and are learning about it now for the first time. That part is unfortunate since Arrowhead was trying to do the right thing in disabling the login requirement so people could play. The PSN country problem is entirely on Sony. It is not Valve's responsibility to check and make sure the countries Sony sells the game in lines up with Sony's PSN availability.

So far neither in-game player count nor game sales have been affected by this. Whether that changes or not once this requirement is put into place is yet to be seen.

 

[Elios83]

The requirement is going in next week (or was it one after) so you won’t see any discrepancy till then most likely.

But that’s immaterial. If the above list isn’t enough for you to understand why folks are upset, well, keep stanning for the corpo, there isn’t much else to discuss.

There's not much to discuss indeed because facts are obvious.

1) The PSN login requirement was there since the beginning and Sony has the right to do whatever they want with their game.
2)Both Sony and Valve have fucked up in not checking since the beginning what the PSN requirement meant for selling the game in countries not officially supported by PSN
3)Until there is proof that because of the login thing people stop playing the game on PC in mass this is a storm in a teacup/FUD and this is obviously what some people are looking for.

 

[Mr Moose]

There was a ton of confusion in the Steam forums as to whether the login was a requirement or not. So it stands to reason that with a game that has sold millions, many people did not know this and are learning about it now for the first time. That part is unfortunate since Arrowhead was trying to do the right thing in disabling the login requirement so people could play. The PSN country problem is entirely on Sony. It is not Valve's responsibility to check and make sure the countries Sony sells the game in lines up with Sony's PSN availability.

So far neither in-game player count nor game sales have been affected by this. Whether that changes or not once this requirement is put into place is yet to be seen.

In a backward ass way it makes sense not being able to sign up for a PSN account in countries without a store but that only works with consoles. Now that it's a requirement for their MP games sold on other stores they only have themselves to blame. They need official messaging on this. They need to officially say you can create an account that's from a country that isn't your own without risk.