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STEAM | September 2016 - Good job doing previous stuff, let's do new stuff

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Levyne

Banned
I've been playing some Dark Souls 2 SotFS lately and it's really fun. No idea why people say the game is bad. The boss designs are kind of lame, but I haven't gotten to one of the big bosses yet. I like all the areas and the NPCs you find have very popping personalities. I really like that dude with the big ass turquoise sword. There is one thing I really hate about this game though. Enemy placements. It seems like this game's difficulty is mostly from swarming you with enemies. The first forest area you get like 7 enemies on you if you don't lure them out, No Man's Wharf is even worse with enemies hanging off the rails everywhere.

The enemy thing is something that bothers a lot of people on the game.

To me, the game almost feels arcade-y in the ways the levels are set up. Almost like an unwritten World 1, World 2, etc. I'm not sure that makes sense. I thought it was fun.
 

Pixieking

Banned
I don't think I'd call it irresponsible. The guy is in the business of collecting and presenting data. How it's interpreted is on the user. We've seen how many times people use Steamspy sales data erroneously because they did not contextualize it properly. The same principle applies here. You have to go through each game on a case by case basis and see if there are any mitigating circumstances that explain potential drops. All he has done is present the data to us in an easily usable manner.

True. But how many people do that? From his Twittter post thread:
@Steam_Spy so many shitty games here, I guess the new system did stop influenced reviews.

He must know by now that people don't use his data correctly, so why not just spend an extra couple of hours writing a short post saying games X Y and Z have reasons for the differences? And people are just going to use his data here to fire back at developers that they were gaming the system, even if they weren't. I would class that as irresponsible, personally, but... *shrugs*
 
So I have Bioshock 1, 2 and infinite but dont have Minerva's Den on Steam (I forget but I have a feeling I own on GFWL) do I not get the remasters?
 

Pixieking

Banned
Aren't you answering your own question here? I wouldn't want to waste my time that way.

Well, yeah, okay, but

1) He's made a name for himself with this. Why do it half-arsed?
2) Knowingly not bothering with even vague analysis and just shoving numbers out helps no-one.

Just seems like a waste of time to not do this in even a vaguely well-thought-out manner. But,meh... I have little time for Steamspy dude, it's just the after-effects of something like this which I can see as being the very opposite of useful.
 

legacyzero

Banned
I put up my EVENT[0] Video Review just in time for embargo. Here's the text

Space can be a lonely place, and perhaps it’s best when it’s presented that way. What if you find yourself stranded on a ship alone with no way to reach for help, and the only way to surmount the obstacles of this supposed derelict station, is throughs it’s primary A.I. named “Kaizen” (Or the Japanese word for “Improvement”).


Upon landing aboard the aforementioned derelict ship called “The Nautilus”, You find yourself connecting with a panel, where Kaizen alerts you to his intentions to prevent humanity from utilizing the Singularity Drive- a gravity based engine invented for the purpose of propelling humanity deeper into space. Even worse, he refuses to help you with your current stranding situation until you’ve destroyed the Drive.

The story in Event [0] comes at you slow, and is primarily delivered through Kaizen, and the log files the computer panels contain. It has touches of compelling concepts, but ultimately falls to its limits and lacks engagement. What’s decent about the Nautilus is that it does more to deliver the story than what little engagement Event [0] has. But the systemic method of progression through the game feels like it’s working against you to enjoy what it has to offer.

GAMEPLAY

Event [0]’s Gameplay puts strict focus on your interactions with Kaizen as its primary method of traversal in the game. You’ll find yourself chatting with this computer a lot, which is an interesting concept…… on paper….. There can be some really interesting conversations being had with Kaizen, but they most of the time feel very one way. You’ll begin to feel that instead of progressing through it’s conversations and puzzles with some sort of strategy, it becomes more about trial and error. For the personality that Kaizen can sometimes convey, its a waste to know that your responses dont carry any impact to the conversation, and rather, Kaizen most often just says whatever is supposed to come next in his dialogue, no matter what you type in. But in some situations, conversation with Kaizen is pretty neat. I remember having to convince Kaizen that it’s ok if I go for a space walk to progress the story. This exchange lasted for minutes before he finally let me out. Sadly, the trial and error of it presented little context to what I actually should say to convince him. It all feels really unnatural.

Progressing through the game also includes movement through the Nautilus trying to find clues, and the next point of interest that will suggest the next step in moving forward. When this works, it actually feels rewarding to progress. But when it doesn’t, it becomes frustrating, and the pace comes to a deflating halt. It’s worst feature comes from it’s hacking puzzles, that provide little-to-no guidance of what it requires to solve. Most of these puzzle demand tedious trial and error to complete before the game will allow to move on. You may even find yourself mashing buttons on your keyboard hoping to accidently clue in on a way to a solution. I even ran into a bug that broke on of these puzzles, making me think that I was actually doing it wrong, when resetting the game was the only way to fix it.

All together, the gameplay concept is compelling, but not fully realized. When progress is moving, Event [0] is moderately entertaining, but otherwise, it is a pace-stopping, frustration that asks you think outside of a box that doesn’t really exist.

DESIGN

On the design front, Event [0] does a good job of conveying atmosphere where it matters. Space walking is pretty immersive, and the sound does well to make you feel present in its setting. Admittedly, I had to drop the game to medium settings for graphics that didn’t seem too demanding, and on a technical level, it’s been awhile since I’ve seen a game require this much time to load, for such a basic type of title. On average, it took the game anywhere between 4-5 minutes to load into play.

CONCLUSION

Event [0] is an interesting concept, but doesn’t try to build on the potential it has. With Kaizen being sold as the game’s primary feature, I was left feeling underwhelmed at its delivery. The Nautilus is the only redeeming factor here, but with the game seemingly working against you in almost everything but the right way, you may just find it hard to find anything memorable here.
2/5
 

Nzyme32

Member
Steamspy dude made a spreadsheet of which games lost the most review rating points after the change. I haven't even heard of the top 30 games on the list but the score manipulation seems fairly obvious.

For example, some game called Lands of Devastation had 166 reviews before the change and has 12 reviews after. And it's score dropped from 86% to 16%. Pretty obvious what's happening here.

The VR pack in games are getting fucked by this - Fantastic contraption knocked down to 5 reviews, Job Simulator down to around 50.

This also makes me wonder, since this was all visible to Valve and those games with a large discrepancy between key reviews and steam reviews; why doesn't Valve just do it all in the background and cut out the obvious inflated reviews rather than barring all key reviews? And that also makes me question those few games with the large gap in reviews reversed with steam reviews far higher than the key reviews... odd
 

Anno

Member
Nice to see a new Avadon game hit Steam. Spiderweb dude still doing what he does. I wonder if he has enough of a devoted core that he can just make those games forever and get by.
 
I don't think I'd call it irresponsible. The guy is in the business of collecting and presenting data. How it's interpreted is on the user. We've seen how many times people use Steamspy sales data erroneously because they did not contextualize it properly. The same principle applies here. You have to go through each game on a case by case basis and see if there are any mitigating circumstances that explain potential drops. All he has done is present the data to us in an easily usable manner.

The more responsible approach would have been to exclude games for which the difference is not statistically significant, after controlling for multiple tests. In fact, I'd wager that most of the games on that list are there purely by chance. It's statistics 101, and somebody "in the business of collecting and presenting data" should know that.
 
Nice to see a new Avadon game hit Steam. Spiderweb dude still doing what he does. I wonder if he has enough of a devoted core that he can just make those games forever and get by.

I played a few they are actually quite good, I think the latest I played was Black Fortress.
 
Well then looks like that Turok 2 remaster is happening soon.

CsUfAsqWIAAEPXN.jpg:large


https://steamdb.info/app/405830/subs/
 

Ludens

Banned
Completed Lisa. Very strange experience, for sure a good game but I think it's very punishing, since boss can perma--kill your characters even on the lowest (Normal) difficulty setting.
It's a game in which your choices actually matter, since heavily influence how you will face the rest of the game.
Joyful, the DLC, was very good too: at first it seems brutally hard, but when you learn you can poison bosses or inflicting several status, it becomes very manageable.

Very suggested game, expecially if you like Earthbound mixed with a psychedelic element, Lisa if the right choice. I bought it one year ago during the christmas sale, only played it now, but really worth.
 

Orgen

Member
Completed The Beginner's Guide yesterday. The game was something else (maybe not 9€ worth but if it's on a sale I'd recommend it). Is Stanley Parable similar? I want to beat a short game before starting my holidays (this Saturday) and I'm torn between the Stanley Parable, The Room and The Moon. Which game is shorter? Any other recommendations?

Thanks!
 

Ruruja

Member
A point to add to the steam reviews thing is people tend to review games based on how much they paid for their enjoyment.

If they got a game in a big $1 bundle and got a few hours of entertainment out of it, they might give it a positive review, as opposed to buying it on Steam for like $6.99 and them thinking it wasn't worth the money.
 

Jawmuncher

Member
Sure but it's still a classic FPS design with big ass maps filled with secrets rather than linear corridors.

I personally don't feel that instantly makes older fps design better. There's more than a few examples of that just hurting the game.
 

derExperte

Member
https://www.indiegala.com/hump

Pay only $1 and Get these 3 Steam Games

Grey Phobia (STEAM)
Platformica (STEAM)
The Lost Battalion: All Out Warfare (STEAM)


Pay only $2.99 or more (ONLY FIRST 24 Hours) and Get The Entire Bundle of 10 Steam Games

RymdResa (STEAM)
Timore 5 (STEAM)
Mu Cartographer (STEAM)
Everything is Peachy (STEAM)
Robo's World: The Zarnok Fortress (STEAM)
ALONE? (STEAM)
Miaou Moon (STEAM)

So yesterday, I noticed RIVE was part of a Two Tribes bundle on Steam, which would increase the launch discount and make it match the Humble Store discounted price (including Humble Monthly discount). Today, the bundle has disappeared.

Bundle is back. Very positive German review, 85%.
 
Completed The Beginner's Guide yesterday. The game was something else (maybe not 9€ worth but if it's on a sale I'd recommend it). Is Stanley Parable similar? I want to beat a short game before starting my holidays (this Saturday) and I'm torn between the Stanley Parable, The Room and The Moon. Which game is shorter? Any other recommendations?

Thanks!

Those are great games.
Stanley Parable, compared to Beginner's Guide, is much more meta and much more tongue in cheek. It's a game that you have to play through multiple times, since your choices greatly influence what happens and what you see. At some point you'll probably want to look up a guide to see what paths you've missed. The Room is a really enjoyable puzzle game, and does a great job of making it feel like you are interacting with something tangible. I don't know about The Moon, unless you mean To The Moon, in which case it is one of my favorite games ever. It is light on gameplay, and has some really dumb parts, but is worth playing for the excellent (and very sad) story.

So choose whichever, depending on if you want meta humor, intricate puzzles, or a real tearjerker.
 

Amzin

Member
Well, yeah, okay, but

1) He's made a name for himself with this. Why do it half-arsed?
2) Knowingly not bothering with even vague analysis and just shoving numbers out helps no-one.

Just seems like a waste of time to not do this in even a vaguely well-thought-out manner. But,meh... I have little time for Steamspy dude, it's just the after-effects of something like this which I can see as being the very opposite of useful.

Ucchedavāda;216874606 said:
The more responsible approach would have been to exclude games for which the difference is not statistically significant, after controlling for multiple tests. In fact, I'd wager that most of the games on that list are there purely by chance. It's statistics 101, and somebody "in the business of collecting and presenting data" should know that.

Data analyst and DBA are VERY DIFFERENT jobs. I, as a DBA, can attest to that :p Most of his posts and published notes are familiar to me in that it's just showing "hey look at this data that joins together, isn't that neat? Yep!" and that's the end of that line for him. I do the same thing at work largely, I find ways to bring data together for other people to look at. Despite some background in statistics and analysis I would more than likely be grossly misusing that data if I tried to do anything serious with it myself.

Data is just another tool in the toolbox of humanity now. Attacking the people creating the tools is misguided, much more productive to question the people misusing them. You cannot idiot proof data.
 

dex3108

Member
Well i think that everything from that Steam Support leak last year (or whenever it was) is already out so i think that we could use another one now :D I am just kidding i like surprises more than leaks :D
 

MUnited83

For you.
Well i think that everything from that Steam Support leak last year (or whenever it was) is already out so i think that we could use another one now :D I am just kidding i like surprises more than leaks :D
I dont think everything is out, but everything is announced :p. (Except for whatever Journey was)
 
Data analyst and DBA are VERY DIFFERENT jobs. I, as a DBA, can attest to that :p Most of his posts and published notes are familiar to me in that it's just showing "hey look at this data that joins together, isn't that neat? Yep!" and that's the end of that line for him. I do the same thing at work largely, I find ways to bring data together for other people to look at. Despite some background in statistics and analysis I would more than likely be grossly misusing that data if I tried to do anything serious with it myself.

Data is just another tool in the toolbox of humanity now. Attacking the people creating the tools is misguided, much more productive to question the people misusing them. You cannot idiot proof data.

Data being a tool in no way frees you from the ethical question of how you use said tool; the type of data and how you choose to present said data is not void of ethical considerations. And a shallow engagement with said data does not change this.

In this particular case, the SteamSpy owner is essentially implicating a bunch of developers in vote manipulation, must of whom are likely innocent, purely on the ground that they were the ones most affected by the mechanical changes that Valve implemented in order to combat said vote manipulation. And that is irresponsible of him.
 
I think I'm going to buy ReCore and see how the Xbox Anywhere stuff works, knowing my luck the Steam version of ReCore will be announced right after I buy it.
 
Reviewers/Streamers– Are you finding that developers and publishers are less likely to share review codes with you now that Steam Reviews no longer take these into account?
 

Pixieking

Banned
Ucchedavāda;216881893 said:
Data being a tool in no way frees you from the ethical question of how you use said tool; the type of data and how you choose to present said data is not void of ethical considerations. And a shallow engagement with said data does not change this.

In this particular case, the SteamSpy owner is essentially implicating a bunch of developers in vote manipulation, must of whom are likely innocent, purely on the ground that they were the ones most affected by the mechanical changes that Valve implemented in order to combat said vote manipulation. And that is irresponsible of him.

Yeah, and he kind of absolved responsibility for how the data is used in a Twitter conversation (I'm Pixiemorv, btw).

@Pixiemorv There could be many reasons for the score changes, I don't want to speculate :)
@Steam_Spy People tend to think the worst, so without explicitly stating the multiple reasons for the changes, it could cause trouble. :/
@Pixiemorv why does it look bad? The change doesn't have to be a sign of something bad.
@Steam_Spy It doesn't have to, no, but some people will twist data to suit their negative viewpoint, unless explicitly walked through it.
@Pixiemorv I'm afraid that will happen no matter what. Just check the press coverage for IGDA Developer Satisfaction report.
 

legacyzero

Banned
Reviewers/Streamers– Are you finding that developers and publishers are less likely to share review codes with you now that Steam Reviews no longer take these into account?
I have had to have direct email contact with revs in order to get codes, like with my Event 0 and future Clustertruck reviews
 

madjoki

Member
I write for one of the top 25 curator groups.

It's been dead-silent since the policy change.

I find that bit odd (but not totally unexpected), this doesn't actually affect how curators reviews appear on page, they never did count on score.

Steamspy dude made a spreadsheet of which games lost the most review rating points after the change. I haven't even heard of the top 30 games on the list but the score manipulation seems fairly obvious.

For example, some game called Lands of Devastation had 166 reviews before the change and has 12 reviews after. And it's score dropped from 86% to 16%. Pretty obvious what's happening here.

Lands of Devastation publisher Rai Studios was one of those who were caught having 1000 large botnet doing reviews. This is why game was purchase disabled. (ZombieRush, Rapid Squirrel, Electric Zombies are their other games). This is even after those reviews were deleted.

I think I'm going to buy ReCore and see how the Xbox Anywhere stuff works, knowing my luck the Steam version of ReCore will be announced right after I buy it.

Thanks for sacrificing for rest of us!
 

Knurek

Member
Is it me, or are the bundle sites dying?
Even Humble and Bundle Stars offering is... well, tepid to say the least.

Anyways, more Jeff Vogel:

 
Bundle Stars bundles...

Forgotten Realms Bundle

Tier 1 - Pay $17.99
Baldur's Gate: Enhanced Edition
Baldur's Gate II: Enhanced Edition
Icewind Dale: Enhanced Edition

Tier 2 - Pay $34.99 - Including products above
Baldur's Gate: Siege of Dragonspear DLC

Legacy Bundle - $1.99

Elven Legacy Collection
Konung 3: Ties of the Dynasty
Stalingrad
A.I.M.2 Clan Wars
Faces of War
Cuban Missile Crisis
Hexus
Perimeter: Emperor's Testament
World War I
Pilot Brothers
Pilot Brothers 2
 

madjoki

Member
Is it me, or are the bundle sites dying?
Even Humble and Bundle Stars offering is... well, tepid to say the least.

Yes, they are, unless you're just in for +1. 99% is totally crap that is just worth idling if it has cards.

Hopefully publishers start making better deals at Steam due to reviews change, rather than having worse deals at Steam.
 
it's kind of too bad, a lot of those games aren't guilty of botting--they are just fodder for giveaway sites..though i guess if a game is frequently given away it is also cheap enough (<.99c) for players to buy and review them.
 

Monooboe

Member
Bundle Stars bundles...

Forgotten Realms Bundle

Tier 1 - Pay $17.99
Baldur's Gate: Enhanced Edition
Baldur's Gate II: Enhanced Edition
Icewind Dale: Enhanced Edition

Tier 2 - Pay $34.99 - Including products above
Baldur's Gate: Siege of Dragonspear DLC

Legacy Bundle - $1.99

Elven Legacy Collection
Konung 3: Ties of the Dynasty
Stalingrad
A.I.M.2 Clan Wars
Faces of War
Cuban Missile Crisis
Hexus
Perimeter: Emperor's Testament
World War I
Pilot Brothers
Pilot Brothers 2

Very temped for Baldurs Gate. Still feels lilttle expensive though.
 
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