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STEAM | September II 2014 - Ride the Lightning

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R

RionaaM

Unconfirmed Member
Fantastapotamus said:
That's one single incidence and actually pretty fair too. He says his video is outdated, that's not really an advertisment. The game evolves so he actually informs you that his video might not be that usefull anymore so you don't go and watch it and think you know about the current state of the game.
Let's look at another quote


Oh huh, no mention of a video here. Shall we look at another?



So yeah, if he started every recommendation with "My video is awesome go watch it" I might understand your point. But he doesn't. If this would be a common thing (not only with this TB guy but with others) then it might be a problem. But it isn't.
Click to expand...
Fair enough. Doesn't change the fact that all those comments have a link to his videos and are being pushed to every person who enters the store page, but at least it's good to know he isn't actively advertising his own content.

I still don't like the way it works, though. At the end of the day I won't lose my sleep over this, and if I have to train myself to skip that box below the game price I will, but that doesn't mean I have to like what I consider glorified ads with a small opinion attached to them.
 
UnrealEck

UnrealEck

Member
Knurek said:
I for one can't wait for all those 'Free cialis viagra click here' curators with 100k+ of bot followers showing automatically on all game pages.
Click to expand...

I genuinely can't wait for that either because it'll just help people see the problems with the curator module.
 
Y

YianGaruga

Banned
oipic said:
This was my hope for this as well - I had imagined a SteamGAF-'curated' page in many ways mimicking Mr O's OP, with rotated featured games and (p)reviews etc from varied GAFfers. A landing place we could direct newcomers to in particular, and somewhere to keep our GOTY results/recommendations handy in the form of a central 'wishlist' of sorts, for example.
Click to expand...

Exactly how it looked in my mind. How awesome would a GAF page be that had this month's recommended new games, all time classics, and a weekly rotation of a handful of posters who could recommend and promote some lesser known random games. Basically what the system needs is a customizable landing page that then can lead to lists of 10 games max. with certain themes, not huge lists with hunderds of games no one will ever look at.
 
Sharkiller

Sharkiller

Member
dmix90 said:
Yes, please! You mentioned stylebot..... that made with this extension?
Click to expand...
yes. here is the fully code with no curators too.
Code: 
body.v6 #global_header, body.v6 #global_header .content {
    background: none;
}

body.v6 div#global_header .content {
    height: 45px;
    width: 1128px;
}

body.v6.app div#global_header .content {
    height: 45px;
    width: 940px;
}

div#global_header div.logo {
    padding-top: 20px;
}

div#global_header .menuitem {
    padding-top: 30px;
}

div.header_installsteam_btn {
    display: none;
}

.game_page_background {
    background-position: center 30px;
}

.apps_recommended_by_curators_ctn .home_page_content {
    display: none;
}

.steam_curators_block {
    display: none;
}
 
S

spindoctor

Member
I dislike these product page curator blurbs as much as anyone and I want them gone.

That said, I'm curious as to why these are so much more offensive than when the developer themselves add glowing review blurbs to their store page. Here's an example (This was the newest example I could think of. There are many other games where the blurb directly links to a review).
 
A

ashecitism

Member
oipic said:
This was my hope for this as well - I had imagined a SteamGAF-'curated' page in many ways mimicking Mr O's OP, with rotated featured games and (p)reviews etc from varied GAFfers. A landing place we could direct newcomers to in particular, and somewhere to keep our GOTY results/recommendations handy in the form of a central 'wishlist' of sorts, for example.

There has been very thoughtful discussion going on here today regarding the changes, with good points being well made (Yian and Todd, in particular, I agree with all you've said). Valve must surely have spent many, many man-hours similarly discussing these 'issues' and more, but as with their first iteration of many new features, it's a little half-baked at the moment.

In fairness, tags were messy when first launched, and they've tightened those up to the point that they're quite useful now, but today's changes are much larger and, for now, there appears to be some work to do. I've read all the blurb, but I'm still not certain the implementation matches or facilitates Valve's intended vision.
Click to expand...

But is it so much to ask, that for once they launch something in a better, robust...actual "full-baked" state? It's really annoying. It's as charlequin said.

charlequin said:
The whole situation in a microcosm, and a perfect example of why the myth of the meritocracy is toxic at organizations like Valve.

The whole flat organizational structure thing sounds like such a dream, from a distance. Instead of bosses, we can just have smart, clever people working on the stuff that catches their fancy! This is an incredibly appealing dream to many people who grew up as the smartest person in their particular room, and so it's no wonder that so many Silicon Valley companies try to capture some of this in their structure.

The problem is that without real organization, you get a lot of clever ideas that are done half-assed -- which pretty much sums up most of Valve's efforts now. A solid featureset connected to a pretty crummy storefront and a creaky client. A major, industry-redefining initiative that can't be bothered to explain itself well enough to get people on board. To fix problems like these, you need to assign people concrete duties inside the company, and you need to have accountability when things are fucked up. Valve's structure fights against both, which means actually polishing their customer experience or putting things out in a finished state is increasingly going to be outside their capability.
Click to expand...
 
T

toddhunter

Member
spindoctor said:
I dislike these product page curator blurbs as much as anyone and I want them gone.

That said, I'm curious as to why these are so much more offensive than when the developer themselves add glowing review blurbs to their store page. Here's an example (This was the newest example I could think of. There are many other games where the blurb directly links to a review).
Click to expand...

Because they did the right thing and paid for those reviews. It shouldn't just be some YT celeb getting hits for free.
 
N

Nzyme32

Member
spindoctor said:
I dislike these product page curator blurbs as much as anyone and I want them gone.

That said, I'm curious as to why these are so much more offensive than when the developer themselves add glowing review blurbs to their store page. Here's an example (This was the newest example I could think of. There are many other games where the blurb directly links to a review).
Click to expand...

A very good point. I suppose it would be that more people find those useful than some of the current Curator blurbs. Personally I think it should be either hideable or somewhere else on the page out of the way. On the other hand, it is clear that the system needs time to gather enough data to be useful, much like the mess of the tag system, which I'd argue still needs time
 
dmix90

dmix90

Member
Sharkiller said:
yes. here is the fully code with no curators too.
Code: 
body.v6 #global_header, body.v6 #global_header .content {
    background: none;
}

body.v6 div#global_header .content {
    height: 45px;
    width: 1128px;
}

body.v6.app div#global_header .content {
    height: 45px;
    width: 940px;
}

div#global_header div.logo {
    padding-top: 20px;
}

div#global_header .menuitem {
    padding-top: 30px;
}

div.header_installsteam_btn {
    display: none;
}

.game_page_background {
    background-position: center 30px;
}

.apps_recommended_by_curators_ctn .home_page_content {
    display: none;
}

.steam_curators_block {
    display: none;
}
Click to expand...
God bless your soul! Two clicks and done. Now its more bearable, still want gray-black theme back :)
 
A

aku:jiki

Member
ashecitism said:
Matt Lees ‏@Jam_sponge 3m

Here is my Steam Curation list: Buy Dark Souls
Click to expand...
Actually a pretty perfect encapsulation of what the curation system will be. A bunch of popular people recommending already popular games, so people who have already played said game can cheer them on.
 
S

sprinkles

Member
jaundicejuice said:
Because I play Dota 2 Steam is recommending every single piece of shit free to play game there is on the platform. I've literally shot down over 100 recommendations and it doesn't appear to be tuning what it offers me in the queue, it just keeps adding more f2p games and they're looking worse and worse. It's the majority of what my queue is. I can't filter these f2p games out--just early access, linux, mac, unreleased and windows--so this feature is probably going to go as unused as Greenlight until they tune and improve. Which with Valve, that's honestly a crapshoot.
Click to expand...
I have a similar experience: since I played the (really good) Free to Play VN Sunrider: First Arrival last week, Steam suggests me only F2P games like there are no other games around..
 
UnrealEck

UnrealEck

Member
spindoctor said:
I dislike these product page curator blurbs as much as anyone and I want them gone.

That said, I'm curious as to why these are so much more offensive than when the developer themselves add glowing review blurbs to their store page. Here's an example (This was the newest example I could think of. There are many other games where the blurb directly links to a review).
Click to expand...

I've always thought of the blurbs of quotes or whatever the developer adds as the sort of thing you would see on a game's box.
The curator thing on the other hand is done out of sheer popularity. If a curator is popular, it appears there.
Additionally, there's short user reviews on these pages anyway, which are by default sorted by usefulness as voted by the community. So there's really no need for the curator thing as it stands. I don't care what specific people have to say about a game, so I'd rather not have to see it all the time.
 
S

Saty

Member
toddhunter said:
Searching for Dusk Golem there and yes, that is a better use. For example, SteamGAF co-voting Rogue Legacy and Bioshock Infinite GOTY says it all. There is just too much variety in tastes to make it useful (which isn't a bad thing in general, but it is for recommendations).

Even if you limit it to monthly releases, that is still just a list of the few games people bothered to write up about. Typically this is a couple of big releases everybody knows about and whatever indie games More_Badass is pushing that week.

To be useful, a curated store needs to let you pick the games, pick the categories and exclude anything else. Basically it needs to work before you get to the games, not after as it currently does.

Otherwise you might as well just use a thread or a website, like we have all been doing for many years.
Click to expand...
For instance, Rely on Horror is there and that's fine. They focus on a single genre\theme so if you appreciate their thoughts, that's where you're going to look when you are in a mood for that kind of game or when you want to see if there have something worthwhile in the genre that was released in the near past.
So that's one way for it to be useful. You already hold in regard several people\outlets in the industry for their thoughts about certain type of games and thus you go to their Curator page when you want to play a game in that genre.

Another way is to be make aware of new recommendations for specific stuff. The Tags system is there. So how about going to the 'Side-scroller' tag and have a box to tick that is essentially 'let me know of new releases that were tagged as such and have been recommended by Curator [ ]' and you choose whoever you want.
 
R

RionaaM

Unconfirmed Member
spindoctor said:
I dislike these product page curator blurbs as much as anyone and I want them gone.

That said, I'm curious as to why these are so much more offensive than when the developer themselves add glowing review blurbs to their store page. Here's an example (This was the newest example I could think of. There are many other games where the blurb directly links to a review).
Click to expand...
I knew someone was going to mention this, I knew it! For me they are different because devs add the latter themselves, and aren't trying to hide the fact that it's advertisement. Just like the game's description, they choose the specific quotes that make the game look good, which is why you'd be wise to take them with a grain of salt. Besides, those thingies were so small that I never saw them unless I was paying specific attention to them, and their only purpose was to sell the game. The link was probably to ensure the quote was genuine, though it was advertising for the review website too (albeit not one created by said site).

UnrealEck said:
I've always thought of the blurbs of quotes or whatever the developer adds as the sort of thing you would see on a game's box.
The curator thing on the other hand is done out of sheer popularity. If a curator is popular, it appears there.
Additionally, there's short user reviews on these pages anyway, which are by default sorted by usefulness as voted by the community. So there's really no need for the curator thing as it stands. I don't care what specific people have to say about a game, so I'd rather not have to see it all the time.
Click to expand...
Basically this. You said it way better than me!
 
S

spindoctor

Member
UnrealEck said:
I've always thought of the blurbs of quotes or whatever the developer adds as the sort of thing you would see on a game's box.
The curator thing on the other hand is done out of sheer popularity. If a curator is popular, it appears there.
Click to expand...

So would this stop being a problem if for example IGN became a popular curator? That would basically be a back of the box quote then wouldn't it?

Do we dislike the feature in itself or the personality who's quote is getting to the top?

RionaaM said:
I knew someone was going to mention this, I knew it! For me they are different because devs add the latter themselves, and aren't trying to hide the fact that it's advertisement. Just like the game's description, they choose the specific quotes that make the game look good, which is why you'd be wise to take them with a grain of salt. Besides, those thingies were so small that I never saw them unless I was paying specific attention to them, and their only purpose was to sell the game. The link was probably to ensure the quote was genuine, though it was advertising for the review website too (albeit not one created by said site).
Click to expand...

So if the developer mandates the advertising it's okay but if Steam autogenerates the same it's icky? :p
 
A

Arthea

Member
don't we just love to whine about every little thing? (><)
The only thing that really bothers me, is daily being so low, that's bad decision, too much scrolling, I would prefer it to be at the top.
Customization is nice to have though, and we asked for this.
 
A

aku:jiki

Member
Arthea said:
don't we just love to whine about every little thing? (><)
Click to expand...
Eh, the curator thing is apparently the planned future of Steam. It's kinda important and it sucks right now.

I tried making my own and it really is useless. I can't even change the order of the lame list?!
 
Y

YianGaruga

Banned
Arthea said:
don't we just love to whine about every little thing? (><)
The only thing that really bothers me, is daily being so low, that's bad decision, too much scrolling, I would prefer it to be at the top.
Customization is nice to have though, and we asked for this.
Click to expand...

We're not really whining though are we. I WANT Steam to be a better place for developers to put their games so that they can be reasonably successful, that would benefit everyone. Valve just moves with baby steps and without a clear direction. They gave the entire thing a fresh coat of paint, but did they really improve anything else? I really don't think so.
 
D

Dr Dogg

Member
spindoctor said:
So would this stop being a problem if for example IGN became a popular curator? That would basically be a back of the box quote then wouldn't it?

Do we dislike the feature in itself or the personality who's quote is getting to the top?
Click to expand...

For me it's a little bit of both. The focus should be on the quality of the curation and how that ties into your own interests but right now as it stands it's more about the popularity of said curator. This isn't helped by the lack of tools for filtering and poor curation management available. It might blossom in time but right now for me it has no use whatsoever. But hey some folks still obsess over review scores and play "guess the Metacritc" which outside of the body text of the review I couldn't give a toss about so I guess I'm out of touch.
 
A

Arthea

Member
YianGaruga said:
We're not really whining though are we. I WANT Steam to be a better place for developers to put their games so that they can be reasonably successful, that would benefit everyone. Valve just moves with baby steps and without a clear direction. They gave the entire thing a fresh coat of paint, but did they really improve anything else? I really don't think so.
Click to expand...

are you a developer? If yes, I can see why you could be somewhat concerned about this update, it's not necessary a bad thing, it might work over time.

All in all, it's great update, customization is there, limited sure, but it's there, searching got a lot better, that for the longest time was the worst thing about steam. And I don't see why would you be so bothered by curators thingie. I checked pages of many games on store, ya, it could be lower, but it really doesn't do any harm that I can see.
 
A

ashecitism

Member
YianGaruga said:
We're not really whining though are we. I WANT Steam to be a better place for developers to put their games so that they can be reasonably successful, that would benefit everyone. Valve just moves with baby steps and without a clear direction. They gave the entire thing a fresh coat of paint, but did they really improve anything else? I really don't think so.
Click to expand...

And this will never change, unless they go public and restructure or something. Would people want that trade-off though? :p
 
N

Nzyme32

Member
Dr Dogg said:
For me it's a little bit of both. The focus should be on the quality of the curation and how that ties into your own interests but right now as it stands it's more about the popularity of said curator. This isn't helped by the lack of tools for filtering and management available. It might blossom in time but right now for me it has no use whatsoever. But hey some folks still obsess over review scores and play "guess the Metacritc" which outside of the body text of the review I couldn't give a toss about so I guess I'm out of touch.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that's pretty much how I feel. I do think this is a time related matter though, as people currently, including myself, are jumping towards the people we know. For example, while I like TotalBiscuit's opinions, his recommendation blurb is nothing more than a synopsis of game that I already know, where as Jim Sterling is at least mentioning something of the quality and his reasoning.

I see a lot of promise for social groups though going forward. Groups can enable all of their members to write/"curate" recommendations. This is something I would certainly find more useful from something like GAF, although currently it is set for just the admins to write or choose what to recommend. Obviously there will be some pretty big issues on curation quality from such outlets, but I imagine the ones most valued will eventually become more prominent. That said, I think it will continually be seen that celebrity or other personalities will remain at the top, which will be both good and bad dependant on if they arrange themselves naturally by quality or just fame/stupidity/humour
 
Y

YianGaruga

Banned
Arthea said:
are you a developer? If yes, I can see why you could be somewhat concerned about this update, it's not necessary a bad thing, it might work over time.

All in all, it's great update, customization is there, limited sure, but it's there, searching got a lot better, that for the longest time was the worst thing about steam. And I don't see why would you be so bothered by curators thingie. I checked pages of many games on store, ya, it could be lower, but it really doesn't do any harm that I can see.
Click to expand...

No I'm not, why does it matter? I'm not saying the update is bad, I'm not bothered by the curators being featured on the pages, I'm saying the update is not enough to prevent the problems that will arise once they open the floodgates and let everyone publish on Steam. This is a discussion. In a thread about Steam.

But sure, let's go back to talking about what I had for lunch today and what an awesome group of superfriends we are instead of whining about every little thing (><)
 
J

JaseC

gave away the keys to the kingdom.
Spares:

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UnrealEck

UnrealEck

Member
spindoctor said:
So would this stop being a problem if for example IGN became a popular curator? That would basically be a back of the box quote then wouldn't it?

Do we dislike the feature in itself or the personality who's quote is getting to the top?
Click to expand...

No, it wouldn't stop the problem. The blurb on the box isn't necessarily a good thing either.
This sort of thing will be solved when there's the ability to customize the curator module so you don't see who you don't want to see. Which answers your second question. Yes, it is partly to do with who you like or dislike. That can factor into it.
By default though, I don't really think the curator thing should appear on the page unless you've added those curators. Yes, essentially IGN and TB are the same thing. They're reviewers. They can be honest or dishonest for their own gains. No one can really say one party is exempt from this.
The other problem with the 'blurb on the box' issue is that the developer (I'm guessing here) pays to have their game on Steam. Maybe Steam gets a small cut of the income or whatever. So I guess you probably could justify the developer's choice of who they want to put on their store page as the 'blurb on the box'.

It'll be better when they let you customize things a little more.
 
T

Turfster

Member
Gipsy Danger said:
Is this US only? I can't check as I'm at work. If it is could someone buy it and gift it to me? PayPal at the ready!
Click to expand...

It is.
They're also selling Lords of Shadow 2 for 10$, also US only.

Nuuvem is doing a Squenix Promo 75%ish off.
Hitman Classic Collection is not Steam.
 
J

JakeD

Member
ModBot said:
Instructions for participants:
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ModBot Basics:
- I really appreciate thank you messages, but please send them to me (JakeD, not ModBot!) via PM instead of in thread.
- Do not trade keys you win off-site to enrich yourself. Don't try to claim games you have no interest in collecting or playing. Don't claim games to give them to friends off-site.
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Rules for this Giveaway:
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humble extras
 
S

Sendou

Member
Heavy Bullets seems pretty fun so far. Quite simplistic design at its core. Wish it had a bit more music though.

Oh and thanks JaseC for the game!
 
PLASTICA-MAN

PLASTICA-MAN

Member
Holly SHIT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, there is a 3RD MODBOT??????????? SKYNET IS INVADING US!!!!!

I only found out about it just now, and he is even creepier!
 
D

Dr Dogg

Member
Nzyme32 said:
Yeah, that's pretty much how I feel. I do think this is a time related matter though, as people currently, including myself, are jumping towards the people we know. For example, while I like TotalBiscuit's opinions, his recommendation blurb is nothing more than a synopsis of game that I already know, where as Jim Sterling is at least mentioning something of the quality and his reasoning.

I see a lot of promise for social groups though going forward. Groups can enable all of their members to write/"curate" recommendations. This is something I would certainly find more useful from something like GAF, although currently it is set for just the admins to write or choose what to recommend. Obviously there will be some pretty big issues on curation quality from such outlets, but I imagine the ones most valued will eventually become more prominent. That said, I think it will continually be seen that celebrity or other personalities will remain at the top, which will be both good and bad dependant on if they arrange themselves naturally by quality or just fame/stupidity/humour
Click to expand...

I think the language itself doesn't help. It's not really curating content but just one big old wishlist for a singular entity or a group of people. Is it wrong that professional critics are promoting their outlets? Not really, I kind of expected them to do so anyway but it's not really in the community spirit of things but that can't be helped when the tools Valve have given appear to be threadbare.

GOGMixes and even Amazon's stupidly old Listmania do a much, much better job at curating that what the Steam attempt does.
 
M

MMBosstones86

Member
"In some ways, Triad Wars is even a response to some things people have been telling us they want."

...you listened to the wrong people

__________________________________________________

What are we bitching about today? new store stuff?
 
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