I haven't been disconnected during a match. But I've played like 10-20 matches tonight, and after every few matches, it says "error" and asks me to reconnect. Which is simple enough to get past -- I just try again, and it works -- but yeah, they must still be ironing out server issues, probably due to unexpected traffic load (this being one of their first attempts at F2P and all).
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Steel Diver: Sub Wars (F2P) may have the makings of a Nintendo multiplayer classic
- Thread starter Neiteio
- Start date
The Xtortionist
Member
Damn, that sucks. Nintendo really needs to get on board with basic functionality. Makes me fear for Smash.
Game seems fun. Looks to be quite a bit of depth (lol) with the back and forth of masking and pinging. Multitasking movement with the periscope will be essential at higher levels of play, I think.
You try it yet? It's awesome.
And you're right about multitasking at higher levels of play. It's like a first-person shooter where you can move your head (the periscope) separate from your body (the sub), so an aggressive player will drop in and out of the periscope to pinpoint his opponent.
There's also a lot of skill in how you put pressure on the enemy -- pivoting in place by reversing thrust, turning halfway and then resuming forward momentum -- and in mind-gaming foes by masking yourself and then staying still to disappear from their sonar, or going in the opposite direction of where they're leading their shots.
Sounds like a conscious design choice to me, considering automatic skill based matchmaking should be harder to implement than playing with friends, and the game supports the former. But Vitei is tiny (though I think they recently moved to a larger office and are currently hiring), so maybe they only had the resources to do one or the other.
It might be to prevent two well-coordinated players from playing together and Skyping their strategy (rather than doing it the old-fashioned way over Morse code).
This is possible. Being able to play and chat with friends the regular way would go against the game's immersive nature.
LEtrashman, wherever you are out there in the world -- I'm glad I could cheer you on in Morse code as you carried our team to victory, 1v3, by shouting phrases like "GO LE!" and "BLUE SMELLS" and "RED GOT SPIRIT" (that last one was still onscreen when he dealt the finishing blow, enough time for him to reply "XD")!
The Xtortionist
Member
I feel like if coordination is an issue, they could have just made the game FFA only. There are multiple ways to solve the "teams vs randoms" issue, including prioritizing matching parties with other parties. This issue has been solved by numerous other games.
The morse code feature is cute, but I don't think it should undermine traditional communication - through voice or text. Even basic text chat with an onscreen keyboard would foster better teamwork and communication, especially for solo players, or players that are apprehensive about using the 3DS mic. Voice chat is clearly doable, as evidenced in Pokemon X/Y.
I'm really not trying to single out Steel Diver (the gameplay seems very well thought out), but I can't think of another recent team-based shooter (for lack of a better term) that launched without basic party and communication features. BF4 is the only one that sticks out, and the game was laughed at for its lack of pre-game party system. Something like Dark Souls makes sense to not feature overt communication, but it's not being billed as a competitive game.
I haven't played many 3DS games online so I can't say if this is the exception or the rule. I will say that Mario Kart 7 made it very easy to jump in to matchmaking with friends, using a simple queue system. Kid Icarus' multiplayer seems similar in concept (4v4 IIRC) so I wonder what functionality it had compared to Sub Wars.
Sorry if this post comes off as antagonistic. It's not my intention. The issue is just a little worrying to me, considering the nature of the game.
peanutbutterlatte
Member
Each of my 3 brothers has a 3DS, I'll get them to download this later!
Mario Kart 7 and Kid Icarus Uprising actually don't have any communication whatsoever -- no text, no voice chat, nothing. Steel Diver's communication might be... oddly idiosyncratic, to put it nicely. But hey, at least it's there.
(And yes, I agree with you that there should be more open communication. I'm just saying the limitation you describe is common among Nintendo's software in general -- Pokémon XY being the hugely community-focused exception.)
Opinionatedfish
Member
I love this game. Just got out of a game where everyone moved like a proper pack. I love when that happens.
Also, I should make a mii and just call it Akela, because moving in packs to hunt people down is sweet. Already getting the hang of calling out stuff like A1 C2 and so forth.
My battle cry in the early chat is MRGRGR.
Because Edea is life... but yeah.. love this thing.
Also, I should make a mii and just call it Akela, because moving in packs to hunt people down is sweet. Already getting the hang of calling out stuff like A1 C2 and so forth.
My battle cry in the early chat is MRGRGR.
Because Edea is life... but yeah.. love this thing.
I'm used to play World of Tank. Tried Steel Diver yesterday... In WoT, your own team is always displayed in green, and the enemy team always in red. Green is cool, red means bad.
In Steel Diver, you have a blue team and a red team. First time I played, I was in the red team. I saw a red submarine 10 seconds after started playing and shoot the hell out of it. Yeah, it was a friend.
This game sounds pretty fun but there is a long way to go to make it really fun. And as a first attempt to this new business model, they have a lot to learn...
In Steel Diver, you have a blue team and a red team. First time I played, I was in the red team. I saw a red submarine 10 seconds after started playing and shoot the hell out of it. Yeah, it was a friend.
This game sounds pretty fun but there is a long way to go to make it really fun. And as a first attempt to this new business model, they have a lot to learn...
Personally I think it should. Not every game has to follow the same check list of features. You say the morse code shouldn't undermine traditional communication... Well if traditional communication was allowed it would undermine the morse code. It makes communication more difficult and more annoying which makes the game more immersive. You are in a submarine after all. If this game really takes off and a lot of people are playing it then the morse code will sort of take on a life of its own.
Nobody is going to write out complete sentences so certain short hand phrases will start becoming more common and team tactics will improve, though there will always be something lost in translation, keeping the tense, immersive action in place. You send out "C5". Your allies know that something is happening in C5, but they don't know whether that's where the enemy is or if you just want to group up. Maybe that evolves into "C5 EN". Saying that there are enemies in C5. But even then your allies don't know if you're calling for reinforcements or if you're just relaying information. I think this is all very important for the overall feel of the game.
Sometimes a little inconvenience is good. It can make your game unique, breed creativity among your players, and make your game more memorable in the long run.
You raise good points. Iwata called Sub Wars a "contemplative FPS." Maybe that not only applies to the methodical moving and shooting, but also to the deliberative nature of something as simple as communication. It is kind of neat messaging your coordinates to your teammates, or alerting them when you see the enemy, by taking a moment to tap out the dots and dashes.
Arkam
Member
Downloaded this game yesterday. Played the 2 free missions and a few online matches. This game is a total blast. The combat and movement take a little bit to get the hang of, but it's a quick process. By my second match I was able be a real threat in the water. I'm pretty sure I'll be picking up the premium version in the next day or two.
You raise good points. Iwata called Sub Wars a "contemplative FPS." Maybe that not only applies to the methodical moving and shooting, but also to the deliberative nature of something as simple as communication. It is kind of neat messaging your coordinates to your teammates, or alerting them when you see the enemy, by taking a moment to tap out the dots and dashes.
At the risk of spewing hyperbole. I think this game has a chance of becoming a classic. Not necessarily an amazing financial success. But something that could reach maybe... Advance Wars levels of love from its fanbase.
And in many cases, games become classics by following their own path and doing something unique. And this game is just brimming with uniqueness. Not only is it essentially the only game of its genre, it takes itself to the logical extreme of a competitive sub piloting game: Morse code communication.
I think, if this game is remembered 10-20 years from now, one thing that will really stick out in people's minds and be remembered favorably was how fun and crazy it was to communicate in morse code. I think it's a very important part of the game.
peanutbutterlatte
Member
You can imagine this being an N64 game that everybody would play back in the day. I don't mean that in a bad way either
It already is a classic to me.
It's just a cozy experience. Compulsively playable, with tight mechanics, layered strategy, a nice exploratory element and vey satisfying shootouts. Part of me thinks that if they had some Intelligent Systems-caliber characters (like the COs in Advance Wars, or the lords in Fire Emblem), this would have the charm to really take off with the fans.
At the same time, it already has its own sort of charm precisely -because- it leaves more to the imagination and allows players to form their own narrative. The game world is more "mysterious," in a sense.
I know exactly what you mean.
RMS Gigantic
Member
This series already has memorable recurring characters. In particular, the (Deep) Manatee, the (Sea) Serpant, and the series mascot, the Blue Shark! They also retained archetypes relative to one another from the first game: the Blue Shark is middle-of-the-road while the Manatee is maneuverable and the Serpant is durable.
In fact, the Blue Shark is so memorable that it can be instantly recognized when a gun based on its aesthetic shows up in Super Smash Bros. Most people tend to call it "the submarine from Steel Diver" because it was so prominent in the first game's artwork.
The definition of "character" (as a noun) does not limit itself to only living things!
True, true. The subs have a lot of character themselves. So many of them are shrouded in mystery at the moment -- I haven't seen any players above lv. 25, so it'll be a while before we finally see what the Silver Pike or Big Walrus look like (the lv. 40+ super-subs with amazing stats and five-crew capacity). In the meantime, we can stare at their massive silhouettes in the hangar bay... and wonder.
peanutbutterlatte
Member
Man the 3DS is full of surprises. This is Kid Icarus Uprising levels of "Woah, wasn't expecting that"
Vampirolol
Member
Yeah that's true.
Yeah the game is really fun. You know how people keep saying Nintendo should make an FPS, and generally talk about a hypothetical Mario Paintball to keep it nonviolent? Well, this is Nintendo's answer here.
It doesn't have blood and gore, so it's appropriate for all ages. It's slower and more methodical, so it offers something different but still appealing to the FPS crowd. It also potentially introduces a new audience who are normally turned away by twitched based shooters due to reflexes/skill level etc.
The morse code is novel in concept, though not many are using it yet (I only do after death, offering coordinates). The game looks to be popular already, especially in Japan -- a territory that I understand isn't too receptive of first person shooters. The fact that it's free should help it spread and the hidden crew unlockables are fun for customization. They really should do a version for the Wii U. Cultivate an interest in the genre (as opposed to directly compete) so the Calladuties can be healthier on the system. It would be especially cool if they could come up with a system so Wii U and 3DS players can compete at the same time.
Only problem is server issues, hopefully not too many curious people are turned off after trying a couple times (or several!) and failing to get on. That, and the name "Steel Diver" doesn't exactly have the best reputation.
It doesn't have blood and gore, so it's appropriate for all ages. It's slower and more methodical, so it offers something different but still appealing to the FPS crowd. It also potentially introduces a new audience who are normally turned away by twitched based shooters due to reflexes/skill level etc.
The morse code is novel in concept, though not many are using it yet (I only do after death, offering coordinates). The game looks to be popular already, especially in Japan -- a territory that I understand isn't too receptive of first person shooters. The fact that it's free should help it spread and the hidden crew unlockables are fun for customization. They really should do a version for the Wii U. Cultivate an interest in the genre (as opposed to directly compete) so the Calladuties can be healthier on the system. It would be especially cool if they could come up with a system so Wii U and 3DS players can compete at the same time.
Only problem is server issues, hopefully not too many curious people are turned off after trying a couple times (or several!) and failing to get on. That, and the name "Steel Diver" doesn't exactly have the best reputation.
peanutbutterlatte
Member
Pilotwings needs this sort of thing right now!
RMS Gigantic
Member
My primary submarine goal is the Super Cod: 9 Health, and I have a +1 health crew member! I look forward to being a nigh indestructible tectonic plate!True, true. The subs have a lot of character themselves. So many of them are shrouded in mystery at the moment -- I haven't seen any players above lv. 25, so it'll be a while before we finally see what the Silver Pike or Big Walrus look like (the lv. 40+ super-subs with amazing stats and five-crew capacity). In the meantime, we can stare at their massive silhouettes in the hangar bay... and wonder.
POWERSPHERE
Member
I wish you could voice chat and make teams
RMS Gigantic
Member
Both are possible in local multiplayer! Online, the former would get annoying on some people's ears (plus lead to an even bigger language barrier in worldwide matches; trying to figure out 4649 when your only lead is a series of voice clips would take an eternity!), and the latter would lead to stacked matches given that it's 4v4.
RMS Gigantic
Member
My biggest issue with a WiiU Sub Wars, short of autostereoscopic 3D TVs suddenly taking off (because WiiU has dormant 3D TV support) is that, at least it feels like to me, being able to gauge my enemy's distance via 3D, without needing to rely on a HUD number like in most other FPS games, goes a LONG way towards helping me determine by how far I should lead my target!
lol
you probably only boosted his unwarranted ego, he was trashing "p2w noobs" all night on /v/
Speaking of which (aside from him) there is a surprisingly civil Sub Wars community on there. I had a lot of good matches with those guys, unfortunately I've yet to run into anyone on GAF so far.
I was really disappointed at the latest Nintendo Direct and audibly groaned when this game was presented.
The GAF hype convinced me to download the free version and now I'm firmly in the wow, this little game's pretty amazing premium camp.
One question, are crew member locations/spawns random? I took some time to look for them at their last reported locations and couldn't find any.
The GAF hype convinced me to download the free version and now I'm firmly in the wow, this little game's pretty amazing premium camp.
One question, are crew member locations/spawns random? I took some time to look for them at their last reported locations and couldn't find any.
I'm actually quite surprised by how much fun I'm having with Steel Diver, even before tackling the multiplayer. In some ways it feels like the SNES Pilotwings, in the sense that someone decided it would be a wacky idea to make a game about submarines out of the blue, fill it with several self-contained training missions, with a bit of simulation yet at the same time Nintendo's silliness and fun angle mixed in.
This was definitely the best game Nintendo could start their F2P dabbling in, though; I like many others avoided the first game due to bad word-of-mouth and the price, so having this to demo the game and working with the premium version was a good choice. Plus, it opens the way for other potential original Nintendo IPs to breed as well, being a nice waypoint between AAA titles and smaller, indie-like download titles. Will eventually purchase the premium version when I have the money (though I doubt I'll buy any of the historical subs, because really... submarine history. Snore.)
This was definitely the best game Nintendo could start their F2P dabbling in, though; I like many others avoided the first game due to bad word-of-mouth and the price, so having this to demo the game and working with the premium version was a good choice. Plus, it opens the way for other potential original Nintendo IPs to breed as well, being a nice waypoint between AAA titles and smaller, indie-like download titles. Will eventually purchase the premium version when I have the money (though I doubt I'll buy any of the historical subs, because really... submarine history. Snore.)
Seriously this thread is the only reason I even dl'd this game....
I'm in a middle of Bravely Default so i'm not touching it much....
However it's much better so far (1rst mission) than the overly boring Steel diver I only got because it was so cheap and on sale that time....
It's got my attention but that's the best it could hope at this time.
Also the 1rst SD isn't a bad game per se but really just boring....This will make me go back to it I think.
I'm in a middle of Bravely Default so i'm not touching it much....
However it's much better so far (1rst mission) than the overly boring Steel diver I only got because it was so cheap and on sale that time....
It's got my attention but that's the best it could hope at this time.
Also the 1rst SD isn't a bad game per se but really just boring....This will make me go back to it I think.
Completly random and they may or maynot appear in either single or multiplayer stages.
However if they appear in multi and someone in your team gets them, everyone in the team get the crew member unlocked
Has anyone two-shotted a sub yet? I picked one of the slow tank premium subs, started the game, turned left and let off a few long range torps at the lonely unaware enemy sub. Two hits and boom...
Also little anecdote - some random guy on our team hit me with a torp and started ramming me and our other mate. The guy morse coded - 'WHAT SHUD' ... 'WE DO?'. And almost at the same time we ganged up and punished the dude with hot steel. We laughed for a while until we realised the 4 enemy subs were coming at us 2 in a straight line...
And then I thought about it for a while and realised that that was the first troll I've seen in an otherwise impeccable/naive community. I wonder how long it'll last...
Also little anecdote - some random guy on our team hit me with a torp and started ramming me and our other mate. The guy morse coded - 'WHAT SHUD' ... 'WE DO?'. And almost at the same time we ganged up and punished the dude with hot steel. We laughed for a while until we realised the 4 enemy subs were coming at us 2 in a straight line...
And then I thought about it for a while and realised that that was the first troll I've seen in an otherwise impeccable/naive community. I wonder how long it'll last...
I was in a match where I'd already shot down two subs, was hunting down the other two who'd scattered, and had two teammates backing me up... until suddenly one of them sunk. Turned around to get a torpedo in the side, as one teammate had randomly decided to kill the other and now was after me.
little did he know that the HMS X1 DOES NOT PLAY AROUND
Gave him a nice 6 shots to the face and continued on to win the match, typing "IDIOT" into the chat first of course.
DanteRavenkin
Member
Last night, at about 1am my time, I accidentally clicked into this thread. The OP made me download the F2P version. I figured 'why not?'. I wasn't expecting this game to be this fun/addictive! I had zero interest in this game until last night. So thanks, Neiteio, for bringing this to my attention.
Now I just want to see Nintendo do a F2P Star Fox in a similar style.
Now I just want to see Nintendo do a F2P Star Fox in a similar style.
(I thought it was pretty fair towards Nintendo overall)
From the Dallas Morning News blog
Steel Diver: Sub Wars for 3DS eschews evils of free-to-play gaming
By Andrew Scoggin
February 17, 2014
The full blog post, here
From the Dallas Morning News blog
Steel Diver: Sub Wars for 3DS eschews evils of free-to-play gaming
By Andrew Scoggin
February 17, 2014
The full blog post, here
The Elite
BOSS
Just tried it. This game is a lot of fun. Might splurge on the premium.
If this was the Steel Diver game that launched with the system it would have been huge. A great showcase for the 3D and fun multiplayer.
I think Nintendo might have something here. It would be great on the Wii U as well with cross play between the two platforms.
If this was the Steel Diver game that launched with the system it would have been huge. A great showcase for the 3D and fun multiplayer.
I think Nintendo might have something here. It would be great on the Wii U as well with cross play between the two platforms.
POWERSPHERE
Member
I'm paying for the premium, this game is too fun. The single player campaign is a blast, and multiplayer is pretty great.
It just occurred to me that a lucrative DLC idea for this game would be Nintendo-themed subs. I bet Nintendo would make a lot of $1 sales this way!
For example, they could have a Metroid sub with a stylized bow that looks like Samus' gunship... Or a sub reminiscent of the Blue Marine from Star Fox 64... Or a sub meant to resemble a Banzai Bill from Mario... Or maybe even a Zelda sub with a shape like the Master Sword.
For example, they could have a Metroid sub with a stylized bow that looks like Samus' gunship... Or a sub reminiscent of the Blue Marine from Star Fox 64... Or a sub meant to resemble a Banzai Bill from Mario... Or maybe even a Zelda sub with a shape like the Master Sword.
the DLC Sub's already have a date of release on then in the shop. so it looks like they're is more to come.It just occurred to me that a lucrative DLC idea for this game would be Nintendo-themed subs. I bet Nintendo would make a lot of $1 sales this way!
For example, they could have a Metroid sub with a stylized bow that looks like Samus' gunship... Or a sub reminiscent of the Blue Marine from Star Fox 64... Or a sub meant to resemble a Banzai Bill from Mario... Or maybe even a Zelda sub with a shape like the Master Sword.
Ah, good point about the dates listed for the shop subs, Weird. Yeah, I bet they will introduce more subs. Hopefully the Nintendo-themed ones I suggested.
(I'd love a submarine shaped like Pokémon's Wailord!)
I also wonder if they will add more maps. I would personally love more maps in the vein of Fish Tank, Hot Springs and Swimming Pool -- silly maps set in places you'd sooner expect to find toy boats (and perhaps that's exactly what these subs are supposed to be).
Here's an idea: Bath Tub. It would be exactly what it sounds like, complete with giant rubber ducky! Also, an arctic-themed level where you weave your way around and under icebergs would be neat. There was a great level in the first Steel Diver based around this concept.
(I'd love a submarine shaped like Pokémon's Wailord!)
I also wonder if they will add more maps. I would personally love more maps in the vein of Fish Tank, Hot Springs and Swimming Pool -- silly maps set in places you'd sooner expect to find toy boats (and perhaps that's exactly what these subs are supposed to be).
Here's an idea: Bath Tub. It would be exactly what it sounds like, complete with giant rubber ducky! Also, an arctic-themed level where you weave your way around and under icebergs would be neat. There was a great level in the first Steel Diver based around this concept.
Can you describe this idea in a little more detail? I'm not sure I can picture what you mean. :-\
Ione central hub/fighting area with four/eight little starting areas around it.
and all of them and the main area are connected with tubes to each other (and maybe a maintube that goes around the whole area).
would make for some nice hide and seek and chasing each other.
no I'm not going to paint that in MS Paint!
Ah, like the spokes on a wheel, correct? The rim of the wheel is the outer ring, then you have spokes joining it to the hub of the wheel, forming a maze. That'd be neat.Ione central hub/fighting area with four/eight little starting areas around it.
and all of them and the main area are connected with tubes to each other (and maybe a maintube that goes around the whole area).
would make for some nice hide and seek and chasing each other.
no I'm not going to paint that in MS Paint!
Like I said before, I'd like a dark map where all of the subs have floodlights they can toggle on and off.
Or how a map around a thermal vent, with volcanic eruptions underwater?
Or maybe a map during a storm at night, where visibility is poor around the surface?
Or a map where a sea monster acts as a stage hazard (and bonus points to the team that defeats it)?
Ah, like the spokes on a wheel, correct? The rim of the wheel is the outer ring, then you have spokes joining it to the hub of the wheel, forming a maze. That'd be neat.
Like I said before, I'd like a dark map where all of the subs have floodlights they can toggle on and off.
Or how a map around a thermal vent, with volcanic eruptions underwater?
Or maybe a map during a storm at night, where visibility is poor around the surface?
Or a map where a sea monster acts as a stage hazard (and bonus points to the team that defeats it)?
I see you've understood what I've meant.
so many great ideas.... Nintendo should hire us!
edit:
weren't there monsters in the first game?
