Also, dat GAF consensus:
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Steel Diver: Sub Wars (F2P) may have the makings of a Nintendo multiplayer classic
- Thread starter Neiteio
- Start date
Here's my two cents:
Everyone harps on about how Nintendo is so backward and useless with their multiplayer/online/account systems etc. But you know, their games are really fun, good quality titles. Their games are great despite the lack of multiplayer options (with a few small exceptions).
I think what we've seen here is Nintendo's first foray into online FPS-esque multiplayer and harnessing their expertise with gameplay mechanics in a more engaging format. It's really rough at the edges but incredibly entertaining. Sign me up for more.
Everyone harps on about how Nintendo is so backward and useless with their multiplayer/online/account systems etc. But you know, their games are really fun, good quality titles. Their games are great despite the lack of multiplayer options (with a few small exceptions).
I think what we've seen here is Nintendo's first foray into online FPS-esque multiplayer and harnessing their expertise with gameplay mechanics in a more engaging format. It's really rough at the edges but incredibly entertaining. Sign me up for more.
I think Sub Wars should be pre-installed on every 3DS going forward. A fantastic freebie, with well-honed mechanics and multiplayer.
If this had been available at the 3DS launch, I can only imagine how many hours people would've clocked, lol.
StreetsAhead
Member
I imagine, like they've done, at least in Japan, with Rocky's Real Deal Sports Store, MH Frontier, and the Wii Fit U trial, they will push the game via spot pass to consoles with the option enabled in a week or so.
Hmm, interesting. But what do you mean by "with the option enabled in a week or so?"
On a side note, I'm kind of curious to try Rusty's Real Deal Sports Store. Some of the timing mini-games they showed had a nice rhythm to them.
StreetsAhead
Member
Sorry, not clear. Rusty's and the other games were all sent out via Spot Pass about a week or two after they launched. My sentence structure is poor, but I meant 'I think it will be sent to consoles, which have the option enabled for Spot Pass downloads of software, in about a week or so.'
The games in Rusty's are quite good and some of the challenges are quite challenging.
Oh, so what you're saying is you suspect everyone who has enabled SpotPass on their 3DS will receive a message in a week or so telling them about Sub Wars. I was actually wondering about this -- I checked my notifications the other day and didn't see anything about it.
StreetsAhead
Member
Yeah. Or they may download the actual game. I think they did that with Rusty, they just downloaded the actual software to try.
You mean Nintendo just put the software on the person's 3DS without prompting the person to download it? Kind of like what Nintendo did with the Wii Sports Club trial on WiiU?
jetsetmario
Member
I'm loving it so far but the matchmaking is god awful. I get an error code every time we hit the lobby after a match.
Yeah, sucks the wind out of every good game !
And to make matters worse, you get lumped in with only a couple of players next time you go to a match.
I never have less than a full lobby of players (Worldwide, Randoms), but yeah, it seems like every other match, my winning streak bonus is disrupted by a disconnect. Thankfully, the disconnects only happen after matches, not during, but hopefully they will iron out this issue so that I can continue smoothly from one game to the next. That being said, it's really not a big deal -- if it says it failed to connect, I simply try again, and I always get in the second time.
it's about 8 maps
If you go into the local multiplayer mode, you can see there are actually nine maps:
- The Trenches
- Islands
- Underwater Base
- Stone Pillars
- Sunken Ruins
- Swimming Pool
- Underwater Cave
- Fish Tank
- Hot Springs
And the single-player missions have their own unique maps that only appear there.
RobFox64tm
Member
I'd imagine the Circle Pad Pro just affects the forward/reverse thrusters, correct? In which case, I don't see how it'd offer an advantage. Most of the time, I'm going full-speed ahead, so I simply slam on the X button. But if I need to make a sudden stop or go into reverse to back away from danger or pivot around, I actually reach for the slider on the touchscreen since I can drag it down quicker.
Ah, that's right! I love the strategy involved in the sonar. If you stay still, no one can detect you when they ping, but by the same token, if they're staying still, they won't show up on your sonar, either!
One thing I don't understand, though -- the map you can toggle on with L. It displays a grid of the map, with certain squares highlighted. What's the difference between a highlighted square and a dark one?
I think the highlighted area is where all the enemy ships are located.
Uncle0wnage
Member
This game is fun when you can get in a game, but last night it took me one hour to actually get into one, which is not okay.
Wow, really? If I fail to get in once, I just try again and get in the second time. Takes me only a few seconds. What mode are you playing? I stick to Worldwide and Randoms. I wouldn't fuss too much over "Matched Skills" because Worldwide has such a variety of skill levels that it feels oddly balanced in its own right... Glad you're liking it so far, though.
Uncle0wnage
Member
Wow, really? If I fail to get in once, I just try again and get in the second time. Takes me only a few seconds. What mode are you playing? I stick to Worldwide and Randoms. I wouldn't fuss too much over "Matched Skills" because Worldwide has such a variety of skill levels that it feels oddly balanced in its own right... Glad you're liking it so far, though.
I've been doing Random Worldwide, but I've only gotten enough matches to get to level 5. I love the combat, but I think that the masker should be less effective, it's kind of broken the way it is. I haven't lost a match yet, though.
Mind-game your opponents. Hit the masker to throw off their homing torpedo, then stop moving forward or backwards; instead, rise or dive. You'll show up on their sonar (which detects movement, even when someone is masked), but they won't know if you're moving up or down. When they nose past you, kick it into reverse and turn, then thrust forward again when you've turned halfway. This is a tight turn that allows you to pivot in place. Then unload your payload into their side. This strategy works well for me in close combat. I try to hit people from a distance, however -- if I recall correctly, there's something like a 1.5X damage multiplier for direct hits from a distance (and the game even makes a little fanfare when you do so).
StreetsAhead
Member
Yep. They did it with that game, Wii Fit, and Monster Hunter Frontier in Japan.
axisofweevils
Holy crap! Today's real megaton is that more than two people can have the same first name.
So, this happened.
https://twitter.com/giles/status/434847749670850560
That's the CEO of Vitei, and a link to this thread too. How awesome! xD
https://twitter.com/giles/status/434847749670850560
That's the CEO of Vitei, and a link to this thread too. How awesome! xD
Giles is the man
1080 Snowboarding N64 and now his very own pet project - Steel Diver
What a legend !
Oh, cool! I'm glad someone from Vitei saw this thread -- it's kind of my love letter to the gem of a game they've created.
Don't forget the original Star Fox. And he worked on Super Mario 64 too.
Glad to see Sub Wars is getting some love. I'm really enjoying it.
RMS Gigantic
Member
Excellent, then Vitei is almost certainly aware of the error code issues! The error codes tend to be something that I need to warn potential new players about at the moment.
By the time Sakurai released this screenshot, even we already knew about Steel Diver: Miyamoto said it in an interview a few months ago that it was coming as a F2P game. So, yes of course.
It's also the only (or at least one of the few) new retail IP's on 3DS from Nintendo so it deserves some recognition too.
Wow, Sub Wars' creator is the guy who created the Mario face you can manipulate on the title screen of Super Mario 64. :-O
RMS Gigantic
Member
I decided to overspecialize by giving the Crustacea (with 10 torpedoes and a reload time of 5 seconds) the crew members to reduce the reload time (from 5 seconds to 4) and increase the torpedo count by 2 (from 10 to 12). I think I'll find the crew member that reduces turn rate in favor of another 1 second off the reload speed (4 seconds to 3 seconds) to turn this sub into a sort of torpedo submachine gun (I swear the term "submachine gun" came to me before the fact that this would make it a submachine submarine).
Awesome build idea! (And that "submachine gun" pun should be illegal, lol)
Shikamaru Ninja
任天å ã® å¿è
I wouldn't call him the creator per say, unless the lead programmer of Bayonetta is suddenly the father of Bayonetta. But Goddard is definitely one of the great famed EAD programmers (technically a spiritual EAD liaison now at Vitei).
I actually think this was Miyamoto's loose paper concept. Even though Takaya Imamura of EAD is the lead director. If anyone remembers the original Steel Diver interview, EAD clashed over the direction the game should take. Imamura wanted it to be fleshed out while Sugiyama/Miyamoto wanted it barebone, empty, and simple. The sales and reviews kind of recognized that the seniors made a mistake.
Thanks for the clarification.
Yeah, as far as the core concept goes, it would seem the germ of the idea (for the first Steel Diver, at least) was Miyamoto's desire to make a simulation game all about mastery of the controls. I recall in an interview (the Iwata Asks for the first game, I believe), Miyamoto expressed how upset he was when Capcom beat him to the punch with Steel Battalion on the original Xbox, lol.Also, re: EAD, I imagine Westerners like Giles are a bit of a rarity among their ranks, no? Some incredible contributions there -- 1080* is one of my all-time faves, and SNES Star Fox and SM64 are legendary.
RMS Gigantic
Member
I can imagine the guy who made Mario's face manipulable to be the same guy who had the idea for Steel Diver: Sub Wars to let you orbit your submarine in the internet mode menus....
Also, I now have a 12-torpedo submarine with a 3-second reload! Got Gunslinger A! Time to take this baby for a spin! (Which might be a bit more difficult now, given that Gunslinger A docks my turn rate from 6 to 5....)
Also, I now have a 12-torpedo submarine with a 3-second reload! Got Gunslinger A! Time to take this baby for a spin! (Which might be a bit more difficult now, given that Gunslinger A docks my turn rate from 6 to 5....)
Whoa, that sounds awesome (and even at Turn Rate 5, that's still faster than the default sub, which was perfectly serviceable). Can you list your sub and crew members?
RMS Gigantic
Member
It's the aforementioned Crustacea (by default, 10 torpedoes, short range, with a reload time of 5 seconds): the crew members are Gun Slinger A (Reload Time -1, Turn Rate -1), Gunslinger C (Reload time -1, no tradeoff), and Torpedo Ace C (Torpedo Count +2, Submerged Speed -1)
Here's the paint scheme:
And these are the new stats:
And thus I have what I shall now call my "submachine submarine"!
I was actually quite careful to make sure that none of these stats dropped below those of the starter submarine.
Awesome build, RMS, but I'm not sure I'd want to give up mid-to-long-range torpedoes just yet. It's too satisfying getting those 1.5X long-distance hits. Although with your approach, you can practically point and spray as you're approaching the enemy head-on, which is nice. If they mask to try and avoid you, you can spray torpedoes everywhere and hit them quick.
RMS Gigantic
Member
Awesome stats, RMS, but I'm not sure I'd want to give up mid-to-long-range torpedoes just yet. It's too satisfying getting those 1.5X long-distance hits. Although with your approach, you can practically point and spray as you're approaching the enemy head-on, which is nice. If they mask to try and avoid you, you can spray torpedoes everywhere and hit them quick.
I actually looked to see if there were any long-ranged subs with fast reload times. As it turns out, there were none, and one of the pre-match tips explained that stronger torpedoes take longer to reload (hence, long-range subs have longer reload times)
And yeah, this past match I practically sprayed a Sea Serpant as it tried to cloak to escape me after destroying one of my allies. He was only able to get one or two torpedoes into me in between cloaking and trying to turn to point at me!
Also, for reference, the only way I could get any sub to reload any faster would be if I took this thing and traded out the Torpedo Ace for the last Gunslinger. This would give me 10 torpedoes with a 2-second reload. As a matter of fact, given that I'm not quite at full-on Scar Face levels with this thing, I think I'll go hunt 'em down! Missions 6 and 7, (and, I hope, a 2-second reload time), here I come! If this works, I will have a reload time less than half of that of any submarine in the game without crew members.
Edit: Yep, definitely gonna get myself the last Gunslinger for that 2-second reload. From the single-player missions, I can confirm that torpedo numbers start feeling downright worthless when you're reloading faster than you can even find new targets! I didn't even lose any health in Mission 6 level 2!
Second Edit: In mission 7 level 1, I destroyed the entire first wave of submarines and destroyers (except from one submarine, which I alone for 30 seconds to pick up a crew member) within the first minute of battle! (If I got that last submarine and ignored the crew member, I probably would have still met the 1-minute quota, because I finished the others off within some 45-50 seconds). This is really fun, and this is just with a 3-second reload! I've created a monster!
Third Edit: Again even with a 3- instead of a 2-second reload, I am actually finding in single-player that it's a more worthwhile strategy to actively aim for homing torpedoes to blow them up, rather than trying to mask myself to dodge them!
Oh yeah, that sub build must be beastly in single-player. And being able to shield yourself from homing torpedoes with your own missile spam sounds nice.
POWERSPHERE
Member
Server drops are annoying for streaks
I'd love a Wii U version that can play against 3DS
I'd love a Wii U version that can play against 3DS
Yeah, this would be great. Cross-platform play would ensure WiiU players always have someone to play with while providing a great F2P title for WiiU that would add nicely to the system's value. Assuming it's possible from a technical standpoint, a WiiU version with cross-platform play could feature the same map geometry as the 3DS version, but simply add lots of effects like detailed textures and shaders, lots of particle effects, dynamic lighting and shadows, etc. Nothing that would help or hinder the WiiU player vs. the 3DS player, but at the same time it'd look like something at home on the WiiU.
I only played the singleplayer mode before, which I thought was OK but not mindblowing. Now that I played it again with the CC Pro, I really love it. The controls make a huge difference and the online multiplayer is extremely fun. I'm even thinking about buying the full package, should I play it more.