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[superfamicom]

He was a great innovator and visionary but he was always an asshole that used people to his own gain.
I never really have had much respect for him as a person.

He was a hypocrite that wanted to control people under his own rules.
This was seen in his personal life as well as the way apple thought towards consumers request and desires. Not caring what they want and just building what they want you to want.

As a business person yes very successful, but as a person his actions were not what I'd put in a role model.


I know my view might not be loved around these parts but it's just my opinion. The industry needed him to grow and it's a better place now because of him. There's no other way to look at that though, regardless of how anyone feels about the Guy.

 

[FStop7]

"Destroying Android" not working out so well.

Come to think of it, when any IT big shot has set out to destroy a competitor, has it ever actually succeeded? I guess Microsoft managed to destroy Wordperfect and Lotus 1-2-3.

Microsoft also set out to destroy Linux and failed miserably.

How many different Google competitors have been launched and failed?

It just doesn't work that way.

Most of the time companies end up destroying themselves. See: Yahoo, HP and RIM as current examples of companies that are tearing themselves apart.

Also, the CEO of Xerox could have read Jobs the exact same speech about 'grand theft' over Apple's theft of all of PARC's innovations.

 

[Technosteve]

bet Woz felt pretty bad too back in the day


I just think its a much better approach to keep quiet and move on improving your stuff over the competition rather than being bent on treating them as "grand theft"

then again this is mostly what they did considering the approach they took and how these types of comments and attitude were pretty much unknown. Know i just wonder if that was someone else's decision.

I feel this type of passion will make Scott Forstall push iOS to be even better, i think from that businessweek article he was very close to steve. I think crazy eyes can beat Turtle Head that is Andy Rubin simply because it took them four years to hire a UI UX guy to help the fix the UI.

 

[meppi]

This was seen in his personal life as well as the way apple thought towards consumers request and desires. Not caring what they want and just building what they want you to want.

You know who else has always done this, right? RIGHT?

 

[Popstar]

I think Apple felt some sort of entitlement to innovations revolved around simply moving from the stylus to full touch screen accessibility, but it was always an inevitable development, Apple probably just brought it forward sooner rather than later by popularising it.

I always hate comments like these. It just denigrates the hard work many many people had to put in to make something work.

 

[Captain Pants]

I get why he'd want to compete with Android, whatever...

Jobs used an expletive to describe Android and Google Docs, Google’s Internet-based word processing program.

Why would he take a shit on google docs? I love it and there isn't really an Apple equivalent that I'm aware of.

 

[vareon]

Yeah that's pretty interesting. Guess he wasn't a fan of "imitation is the best form of flattery" principle. Not that I think Android imitated iOS tho.

 

[Technosteve]

You know who else has always done this, right? RIGHT?

Iwata and Ninentdo?

 

[Salsa]

i guess a lot of artist/designer/create hate when people copy their ideas

here's the thing:

think about technology, think about how technology works and advances.

when does it become theft and when does it become just technology advancing in different branches? no one creates something from scratch, you improve (or move into different branches) on what was already there. Its a difficult thing to accuse someone of any sort of "technology theft" because of this.

It would be like if the producer who invented auto-tune was suing absolutely every single artist this generation.

I mean, sure, i get it, it goes beyond that when you can consider similarities in how the OS looks or whatever, but to me it still falls into what i just stated. Techonlogy is about who's leading the race, not who built the road.

 

[Goldrush]

I'm more interested in what he had to say about Google Docs.

Group projects would be impossible without Google Docs.

Interested in this, too. What was "Apple" with Google Docs?

 

[BocoDragon]

Competition is fine... but just as with Windows back in the 80s, or Android today, I think it's pretty goddamn obvious which company's products were used as main and only template to "borrow" ideas from.

 

[AstroLad]

here's the thing:

think about technology, think about how technology works and advances.

when does it become theft and when does it become just technology advancing in different branches? no one creates something from scratch, you improve (or move into different branches) on what was already there. Its a difficult thing to accuse someone of any sort of "technology theft" because of this.

It would be like if the producer who invented auto-tune was suing absolutely every single artist this generation.

I mean, sure, i get it, it goes beyond that when you can consider similarities in how the OS looks or whatever, but to me it still falls into what i just stated. Techonlogy is about who's leading the race, not who built the road.

Hey I know a guy who agrees with this point.

 

[Cipherr]

Exactly. It doesn't even matter to some extents if your idea IS copied so long as it isn't done better. That's life, that's technology. The idea is to always be the one creating the new advancements that inevitably others will copy.

I think Apple felt some sort of entitlement to innovations revolved around simply moving from the stylus to full touch screen accessibility, but it was always an inevitable development, Apple probably just brought it forward sooner rather than later by popularising it.

I don't think we even need to rationalize it. Anyone who knows anything about Apple and Steve can look at that statement and just shrug. Pot calling the kettle black doesn't even begin to describe it. I'm not shocked that he didn't like the competition honestly.

"Destroying Android" not working out so well.

Heck, it couldn't have worked out any worse. The OS has been growing like mad since its inception. If he was that pissed about it back then, I cant even imagine what it must have been like around early this year or mid last year.

 

[Salsa]

Competition is fine... but just as with Windows back in the 80s, or Android today, I think it's pretty goddamn obvious which company's products were used as main and only the template to "borrow" ideas from.

pretty much

i dont think anyone looks at the Playstaion Move and goes "well this is original"

you always know who laid the ground

edit: though i dont necesarelly have to agree with the examples you've given, but i do with the point

Hey I know a guy who agrees with this point.

loooool

 

[Deleted member 17706]

I feel this type of passion will make Scott Forstall push iOS to be even better, i think from that businessweek article he was very close to steve. I think crazy eyes can beat Turtle Head that is Andy Rubin simply because it took them four years to hire a UI UX guy to help the fix the UI.

Who ended up turning it into an ugly and cluttered mess that can really only appeal to techno-geeks.

 

[Cipherr]

Hey I know a guy who agrees with this point.

Pretttttttty much... I mean, cmon. But in all fairness, perhaps those statements he made about hating Android for 'borrowing' from iOS were made in private. Its not like he ran out to the media and said that, so I guess Ill cut him some slack.

 

[Polari]

You made the thread, this thread will not go well. All i can say is Fuck Yes Steve

Yeah, you stop those scummy Kenyan farmers using low-cost Android devices to improve their quality of life: http://singularityhub.com/2011/08/16/80-android-phone-sells-like-hotcakes-in-kenya-the-world-next/

Anyway, looks Android won this one. Sour grapes eh? And this coming from the man who said "Good artists copy, great artists steal"?

 

[Technosteve]

Interested in this, too. What was "Apple" with Google Docs?

I think steve hates google docs because it can not do page design like how you can format the text stuff like that. Its basically a glorified online txt editor like a emac on the web. That is what i think.

 

[flsh]

Google, just like every company out there, has a small amount of products they invented\innovated\mastered and a lot that they copied. Apple, while innovating more than others, also copies a lot.

Also,
Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery
Good artists copy great artists steal

Or does that only apply to Apple?

 

[speculawyer]

 

[Polari]

I think steve hates google docs because it can not do page design like how you can format the text stuff like that. Its basically a glorified online txt editor like a emac on the web. That is what i think.

Uh, Google Docs is about as far from emacs as you can get.

 

[funkystudent]

well comments like that sure do explain apples lawsuit happy ways in the last year or so.


I guess it makes sense.

Back in the day Apple saw its market share shrink as other companies like IBM and microsoft "stole" ideas apple/steve came up with.

With iOS devices being the new focus of the company I get that he didnt want the same thing to happen again so he was willing to sue everybody he could to prevent history repeating itself.

 

[SRG01]

I always hate comments like these. It just denigrates the hard work many many people had to put in to make something work.

Um, capacitive sensing wasn't even new at the time. It wasn't until recent years that capacitive sensing was accurate enough to displace resistive sensing.

And even now, resisitve sensing is still more accurate.

 

[Davidion]

I respect his accomplishments, what he's done for the industry/world at large, and even the apparent reason why he'd be so outraged and angry. However, this is really little more than a bad case of the tantrums.

Whatever Google/Schmidt may have ripped off of the iphone with Android, they put a product into market with that many people preferred and thought were improved. No amount of anger from Jobs changes this relatively basic principle of business and competition.

If Jobs ever toned down his anger and his ego on the subject, then he would have come to that same conclusion.

 

[flyover]

He wasn't just mad because someone copied Apple. He was mad because the someone (Eric Schmidt) in charge of the company that copied Apple was on Apple's board at the time.

 

[thechristoph]

here's the thing:

think about technology, think about how technology works and advances.

when does it become theft and when does it become just technology advancing in different branches? no one creates something from scratch, you improve (or move into different branches) on what was already there. Its a difficult thing to accuse someone of any sort of "technology theft" because of this.

It would be like if the producer who invented auto-tune was suing absolutely every single artist this generation.

I mean, sure, i get it, it goes beyond that when you can consider similarities in how the OS looks or whatever, but to me it still falls into what i just stated. Techonlogy is about who's leading the race, not who built the road.

Here's another thing:

Eric Schmidt was on the board at Apple. He, as a board member, was privy to the iPhone way before release. Schmidt's company then launched Android. That's what made it "theft" in Jobs' opinion.

People tend to ignore this when they go "lol apple" in this thread. By why let facts get in the way of a good flame war?

 

[Technosteve]

Yeah, you stop those scummy Kenyan farmers using low-cost Android devices to improve their quality of life: http://singularityhub.com/2011/08/16/80-android-phone-sells-like-hotcakes-in-kenya-the-world-next/

Anyway, looks Android won this one. Sour grapes eh? And this coming from the man who said "Good artists copy, great artists steal"?

Nokia has been doing this for millions of people for the last decade with devices that lasts for weeks.

 

[SRG01]

He wasn't just mad because someone copied Apple. He was mad because the someone (Eric Schmidt) in charge of the company that copied Apple was on Apple's board at the time.

That's not entirely true. Vic was already working on Android prior to this, IIRC.

 

[Polari]

I feel this type of passion will make Scott Forstall push iOS to be even better, i think from that businessweek article he was very close to steve. I think crazy eyes can beat Turtle Head that is Andy Rubin simply because it took them four years to hire a UI UX guy to help the fix the UI.

Yeah, but in those four years they kicked the shit out of every competitor in the smartphone market.

 

[dream]

That's not entirely true. Vic was already working on Android prior to this, IIRC.

Yes he was...

 

[Polari]

Nokia has been doing this for millions of people for the last decade with devices that lasts for weeks.

So what you're saying is Kenyans don't deserve any better than dumbphones?

 

[Angelus Errare]

I think Apple deserves its sucess, I also think steve felt extremely betrayed by eric as this was a product Apple has been RnDing for the last two decades. Before google even exsisted, I think he saw what Microsoft did to them during windows 3.1 days that he didn't want it to happen again.

I guess during iphone reveal he brought up all the patents they applied for and will defend was because of google's betrayal

So Apple has been working on iPhone for 20 years?....no, just no.

 

[Salsa]

Here's another thing:

Eric Schmidt was on the board at Apple. He, as a board member, was privy to the iPhone way before release. Schmidt's company then launched Android. That's what made it "theft" in Jobs' opinion.

People tend to ignore this when they go "lol apple" in this thread. By why let facts get in the way of a good flame war?

here's another fact:

c'mon son

all he did during his carreer and all he said publicy goes exactly against everything he says here.

also, i never said "lol apple" or anything remotely similar.

 

[polyh3dron]

He had every right to take that stance. There was NOTHING like the iPhone when it was revealed. Android WAS an iOS ripoff. Google's CEO was on Apple's board of directors. It's a fucked up situation.

 

[nib95]

Hey I know a guy who agrees with this point.

Holy crap LMAO. So perfect.

 

[Deleted member 22576]

That device isn't that far removed from what we got.. not sure what it proves. I also find a LOT of similarites in Android with the hiptop/sidekick OS.

 

[Cyrillus]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCt2nZF2nLk#t=02m47s

 

[kehs]

That's one way to try and defuse a situation "amicably".

 

[Polari]

Here's another thing:

Eric Schmidt was on the board at Apple. He, as a board member, was privy to the iPhone way before release. Schmidt's company then launched Android. That's what made it "theft" in Jobs' opinion.

People tend to ignore this when they go "lol apple" in this thread. By why let facts get in the way of a good flame war?

Are you seriously arguing that Schmidt was committing industrial espionage, passing iOS developments on to the Android team?

 

[clav]

Hey I know a guy who agrees with this point.

That guy certainly has a point.

 

[SRG01]

Yes he was...

Tee hee, that image cracks me up. Still, my point is that it's a little disingenuous for people to claim that Eric Schmidt stole iOS and made Android entirely from that. A lot of Android's ideas were in existence already.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

well comments like that sure do explain apples lawsuit happy ways in the last year or so.


I guess it makes sense.

Back in the day Apple saw its market share shrink as other companies like IBM and microsoft "stole" ideas apple/steve came up with.

With iOS devices being the new focus of the company I get that he didnt want the same thing to happen again so he was willing to sue everybody he could to prevent history repeating itself.

Yep, this is it. He used the same argument against Flash on iOS, since it would be the same situation as in the past where third-party tools held up core changes because users were so dependent on them. Steve Jobs, more than anyone in the world, had an obviously bad history in business that he didn't want repeated.

 

[FStop7]

He wasn't just mad because someone copied Apple. He was mad because the someone (Eric Schmidt) in charge of the company that copied Apple was on Apple's board at the time.

Apparently during Steve's second reign at Apple they had a ritual for when someone would be promoted to VP. Steve would bring in a bunch of a senior management along with the new VP and give that person a speech about how becoming a VP a Apple is crossing the line between excuses and reasons. He would go on to illustrate his point by giving the example of the guy who takes out the trash every night - if he tries to get into Steve's office to empty the trash and it's locked, there is a valid reason why he was unable to complete his task. He does not have the power to compel anyone to unlock that door. But when you are a VP at Apple, you have the full resources of the company at your disposal and there are no reasons. Only excuses, and those aren't acceptable.

As CEO and Chairman of the board, Steve was the top of the top. If he wants to blame someone for making poor choices as to who is entrusted to sit on the board of Apple, then the only person he could have rightly blamed was himself. No reasons, only excuses.

 

[akira28]

Wait. Not to be an asshole or anything, but isn't the goddamn Iphone just a cellphone that plays mp3s, does web and data applications, and everything else all my other shitty motorola ant at&t phones have been able to do since before the iphone was invented?

Wasn't he just riding the shoulders of giants? Or taking all those handheld datapads and phones and mp3 players and combining them into one snazzy little device? I mean, they did it in style, but was it really that special?

Guy doesn't sound like an enlightened buddhist at all :/

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

Wait. Not to be an asshole or anything, but isn't the goddamn Iphone just a cellphone that plays mp3s, does web and data applications, and everything else all my other shitty motorola ant at&t phones have been able to do since before the iphone was invented?

Uhh...

 

[speculawyer]

In Steve Job's own words.
Edit: DAMN IT! Beaten ("Good artists borrow, great artists steal")

 

[Chet Rippo]

Implying Apple didn't use anyone elses ideas, ever.

Kind of a dick thing to say, Steve.

He was pretty much always like this. Probably more so in his younger days.

 

[Polari]

He had every right to take that stance. There was NOTHING like the iPhone when it was revealed. Android WAS an iOS ripoff. Google's CEO was on Apple's board of directors. It's a fucked up situation.

...and iOS was a PalmOS rip-off. ...and PalmOS was a Newton rip-off. So on, so on.

 

[SRG01]

Wait. Not to be an asshole or anything, but isn't the goddamn Iphone just a cellphone that plays mp3s, does web and data applications, and everything else all my other shitty motorola ant at&t phones have been able to do since before the iphone was invented?

Wasn't he just riding the shoulders of giants? Or taking all those handheld datapads and phones and mp3 players and combining them into one snazzy little device? I mean, they did it in style, but was it really that special?

Guy doesn't sound like an enlightened buddhist at all :/

WTF, this is ridiculous. The innovation that Apple gave was to expand on touchscreen devices similar to Palm.

PS. And it wasn't a huuuuge innovation like some people mentioned. It was, like Android to iOS, an expansion of an existing user experience.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Wait. Not to be an asshole or anything, but isn't the goddamn Iphone just a cellphone that plays mp3s, does web and data applications, and everything else all my other shitty motorola ant at&t phones have been able to do since before the iphone was invented?

Wasn't he just riding the shoulders of giants? Or taking all those handheld datapads and phones and mp3 players and combining them into one snazzy little device? I mean, they did it in style, but was it really that special?

Guy doesn't sound like an enlightened buddhist at all :/

Three cheers for ignorance!