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Street Fighter V Beta 2 Thread: Welcome, future 21007s! Now on PC!
- Thread starter enzo_gt
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Holy Order Sol
Member
still hype af imo
As far as the competitive scene is concerned, in the world of Capcom fighting games, only Capcom fighting games exist. As of right now, SFV potential competition is SFIV, the infamous UMvC3 update or a new VS game which will probably not be green-lit unless SFV is successful enough.
Man, we live in such an easily offended world, they must've got complaints. Made it PG-13.
Wait, V-reversals aren't throw invincible?!!
At 0:48 Nash does his V-reversal and Mika grab him out of it!
Zombegoast
Member
No get out of 'getting your ass kicked' free cards around here playboy.
Holy Order Sol
Member
FGC = Fighting Games by Capcom
skLaFarebear
Member
Canceling my preorder.
Tempting
Ragnorok64
Member
Profound sadness.
Though I wander if they changed the ending do to the animation lot working with some character models or something. Like maybe whatever character's model has like 300+bones.
Does anyone know if members of the Marvel vs. Capcom 3 team are working on this game? I know Dimps is the primary developer, but there are a ton of little details that remind me of MvC3:
I’m not saying any of those things are intentionally aped from MvC3, but I can really feel the “spirit” of MvC3 in this game, and that’s a good thing. The overall animation style and art direction are also reminiscent of MvC3, and the game handles like a hot knife through butter. It just feels so far removed from Street Fighter IV to me.
- Proximity normals are gone
- Ryu has a Denjin mode
- Zangief has a chargeable punch that looks like Hulk’s forward M
- Dhalsim has a move reminiscent of Dormammu’s Flame Carpet
- Rashid’s whirlwind reminds me of Storm
- Rashid’s V-Skill is reminiscent of Hawkeye’s command flips
- Cammy can dart around like Jill
- R. Mika’s V-Trigger functions like MvC3 assists
- R. Mika can cut a promo like Thor
- The initial Wolverine/Necalli comparisons
- There are other MvC3-esque touches I can’t recall at the moment
I’m not saying any of those things are intentionally aped from MvC3, but I can really feel the “spirit” of MvC3 in this game, and that’s a good thing. The overall animation style and art direction are also reminiscent of MvC3, and the game handles like a hot knife through butter. It just feels so far removed from Street Fighter IV to me.
TheSpoiler
Member
Before I reply to this, I just want you to know that balance doesn't change between casual and hardcore levels. If a casual player cannot feel the balance in a game, that is on them. Some might say that VF isn't balanced because you can "mash out" a victory, but that definitely isn't true.
Okay.
Supers aren't the reason 2 is balanced. A heavy focus on footies and spacing is why it's widely regarded as amazing, but that's a tale for another day.
Oh no, the parry system is a hit or miss with many people, causing large amounts of imbalance with certain characters.
We are getting into some weird areas here. Ultras giving you more options isn't really balance. And SF2T and SF3 had comeback mechanics as well. So...
No, the different V-Skills complment each character. Ryu having a parry plays into his more defensive style, while Ken's run lets him extend his combos. Giving them the exact same type of skill between them would definitely fuck up balance. This also gives a huge amount of depth to each character, but we can get into that later.
Sure, I guess?
Limited? The amount of shit you can do off a v-skill or v-trigger is amazing. Sure, it doesn't have focus canceling, but Mika alone is an easy example of just how much ridiculous shit you can pull off. And rush down gameplay? SFV is far more defensive than before. I mean, it's nice that casuals are jumping in, but I suggest doing more research about the game or diving in more before saying it's limited with the basics.
I don't mean to be rude, but the game seems limited based on your incredible lack of knowledge towards the game. Winning higher levels of matches still requires an understanding of footies with little room for error. A lack of long combos doesn't mean the game is lacking depth.
Like, what is this post?
Okay.
Supers aren't the reason 2 is balanced. A heavy focus on footies and spacing is why it's widely regarded as amazing, but that's a tale for another day.
Oh no, the parry system is a hit or miss with many people, causing large amounts of imbalance with certain characters.
We are getting into some weird areas here. Ultras giving you more options isn't really balance. And SF2T and SF3 had comeback mechanics as well. So...
No, the different V-Skills complment each character. Ryu having a parry plays into his more defensive style, while Ken's run lets him extend his combos. Giving them the exact same type of skill between them would definitely fuck up balance. This also gives a huge amount of depth to each character, but we can get into that later.
Sure, I guess?
Limited? The amount of shit you can do off a v-skill or v-trigger is amazing. Sure, it doesn't have focus canceling, but Mika alone is an easy example of just how much ridiculous shit you can pull off. And rush down gameplay? SFV is far more defensive than before. I mean, it's nice that casuals are jumping in, but I suggest doing more research about the game or diving in more before saying it's limited with the basics.
I don't mean to be rude, but the game seems limited based on your incredible lack of knowledge towards the game. Winning higher levels of matches still requires an understanding of footies with little room for error. A lack of long combos doesn't mean the game is lacking depth.
Like, what is this post?
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Why would you frame out the ass-slap instead of just coloring her skin white so the ass isn't exposed anymore?
Her slapping her own ass isn't out-of-bounds. She's fucking beating people up with it as part of the actual game. It's that her outfit fucking blows. If you're gonna fix something, fix that.
Her slapping her own ass isn't out-of-bounds. She's fucking beating people up with it as part of the actual game. It's that her outfit fucking blows. If you're gonna fix something, fix that.
Easier to reanimate a camera path than retexture a character
HungOverOnATues
Member
『Inaba Resident』;184594448 said:
lol serves me right for skimming over headlines I guess
VF is awesome!
Okay.
That's what I meant with the "basics" terminology.
Very true and I agree with parry thing. But parry was available for everyone. Hence it was fair. V skill being different for each character is not beneficial. I mean if Capcom wants to make V skill the "turbo" mode for the character... Then Rashid having a mini special tornado move for it takes away from "fairness". It should just be special faster moves for Rashid to help his faster movement.
SF2T and SF3 comeback mechanics were similar on all levels in terms of footsies or basics (SF2) with the addition of parry in SF3, which every character had. In this game there seems to be some characters seem to have distinct advantage over the other and then Capcom goes and nerfs, which is fine. But I am feeling the game does not congeal just yet (hence it beta).
Ultra gave casual gamers an easy way to come back into the match by specific set ups, which was not always liked. This is gone in SFV, but they have not replaced those options with something that will bring them back into game in a simple manner.
Most of the critical arts that I have done are usually anti air moves or 1 hit / poke into Critical Art. Likewise with other opponents from the online play.
The basic strategy that I have seen is that you build EX/CA meter then you do 1 hit poke or a few pokes into Critical Art then the rest of round you evade or block to win by exchanging blows through the game. This takes away the fun for the casuals.
Also Alpha counters are hard to do for casuals. So folks are going feel overwhelmed with rush down play style of the pros against the casuals.
Ofcourse the hard core gamers are going to love this, but this is going to prevent the game from becoming more of casual gaming paradise aka when SF4 was released minus the need from gamers for a new SF game.
Karsticles
Member
Gaining meter from getting hit is a comeback mechanic.
SixMachine
Member
You barely gain super meter from getting hit in ST (In fact I don't even remember gaining any when getting hit). Usually the aggressor gains super much faster in ST, and a lot of people do things like whiff specials to build it up quick. You basically would die before you get any significant meter in ST from getting hit.
edit: just did some fact checking, I don't think you gain any when you get hit, because I looked up matches where people get perfected and they got nothing.
This is true, though the attacker being rewarding with 1) inflicting damage and 2) getting more meter than the defender together make it fair/necessary. I was more baffled by claims that parry was a comeback mechanic or that 'footsies' was mentioned as a comeback mechanic...
ViewtifulJC
Banned
the universal comeback mechanic is players losing less health the closer they are to defeat
TheSpoiler
Member
You are goddamn right.
SFV is very much like SF2 in that regard - a heavy focus on where your character is, footies, and fundies.
Yeah, but Rashid can be knocked out of doing that tornado. Not only that, if he drops his setup, he'll waste all that V-Trigger meter. The balance comes from how the character uses the V-Stuff, how the character operates, and the game's system. If he was any faster, THAT would break the game because his mixup game would be insane and hard to counter!
You are right - everyone had parry, but that system wasn't equal for every single character. It forced some characters to work far harder than others. And I really wouldn't say that all characters were on the same level for normals in SF3. Do you have an example of what feels unbalanced though?
Ultras really just gave people in general an easy way out. But at higher level play, that's out the window. Reliance on ultras is like one of the worst things a SF4 player should learn (but do anyway!). People still get loads of meter for getting hit, and meter gain is even faster. With the huge damage as well, people could definitely use CAs as another form of Ultra, even if I hope people aren't overly reliant on them.
But people evolve as they play. They don't rely on the same stuff over and over again because at a certain point, it's not going to work. Especially with more defensive options, you aren't going to be able to land a poke to CA every time. If a casual quits because he can't stay at a casual level and win with stupid bullshit, well, that's too bad. Even in SF4, people still can't outright rely on Ultras to carry them through all their matches. SFV is based on fundies - learning their character is going to take them further than wasting meter on some half hearted thrown out attack.
What's going to draw in casuals is the ease of access with depth for those who want it. If a casual drops the game because it's too confusing despite the game making it simplistic to access that depth, the onus is on the player, not the game.
You can take games from people better than you if you work on your fundies. It's simple. If a player cannot grasp that, despite how obvious it is, too bad. And SFV is making it very, very obvious.
chertipros
Member
Can't log on to the servers. Is the beta up or not?
Dude... you are in over your head here.
V-skills are more fair than parrys because they actually suit the character. They benefit their gameplan and design. Unlike the parry, or focus attack for that matter, that are more useful for some character than others.
TheSpoiler
Member
I was wrong. I don't think you gain meter on hit for SF2T.
Nobody is claiming that.
This is true, though the attacker being rewarding with 1) inflicting damage and 2) getting more meter than the defender together make it fair/necessary. I was more baffled by claims that parry was a comeback mechanic or that 'footsies' was mentioned as a comeback mechanic...
Nobody is claiming that.
Teknopathetic
Member
"Ofcourse the hard core gamers are going to love this, but this is going to prevent the game from becoming more of casual gaming paradise aka when SF4 was released minus the need from gamers for a new SF game."
This statement is kind of humorous considering how many people complain that SF4 is too technical and difficult now.
"The basic strategy that I have seen is that you build EX/CA meter then you do 1 hit poke or a few pokes into Critical Art then the rest of round you evade or block to win by exchanging blows through the game."
This is the basic strategy for winning in literally every street fighter game. This is so crazy that I'm curious as to what you think the strategy in SF4, 3S, ST, etc. is.
This statement is kind of humorous considering how many people complain that SF4 is too technical and difficult now.
"The basic strategy that I have seen is that you build EX/CA meter then you do 1 hit poke or a few pokes into Critical Art then the rest of round you evade or block to win by exchanging blows through the game."
This is the basic strategy for winning in literally every street fighter game. This is so crazy that I'm curious as to what you think the strategy in SF4, 3S, ST, etc. is.
Zapages said "SF2T and SF3 comeback mechanics were similar on all levels in terms of footsies or basics (SF2) with the addition of parry in SF3" which sounds like they're saying footsies/basics/parry are comeback mechanics, unless I'm misreading things.
My limited gameplay has been with Rashid, Ken, and Ryu. Overall I have played the most is Rashid. I feel the damage output for V skill for Rashid seems to be unfair and likewise with the Ken and Ryu.
This is exactly what I mean with the ultras and focus attack. There were options. If a casual player wanted to take the next step was easier as compared to SFV (for now at least).
This is what I am afraid of... The game seems to be catering towards the hardcore, but the regular casual gamer who goes out and buys Assassin's Creed, Madden, Call of Duty every year might not stick around.
There needs to be something for the casual gamer to come in and enjoy and learn the game while having fun. The term easy to play but hard to master needs to be applied here hence we are beta testing it.
The fun spectrum is hard to maintain will be broken once the casual raises slowly to upper but keeps on losing as they might not have the time as some of the hard core gamer. So Capcom needs to do something that will have slow gradual ranks for equal ranked people playing against each other.My friend played USF4 for the first time yesterday. He had trouble for the first 30 minutes or so... But after he picked up the basics, he was getting "good" in the game and we had a good fun with it.
Of course the basic strategy is to win...
What I mean is that the one hit to Super/CA was not as prevalent in SF4, but that is what balancing is all about. I remember in SSF2T it was not as blatant and it took a while to build up the super meter. SF3 TS was fair with parry system with its opportunity to neutralize it to a certain degree.
For a casual gamer plus input lag (TV in game mode) combined with internet lag... It becomes hard to pull off and then you get punished.
TheSpoiler
Member
Ryu is meant to stun, not straight damage. Stun is such a dangerous concept in SFV that it works for him.
Ken adds new properties to his moves and more hits.
Rashid's is meant for setups.
All of these fit the characters and their actions.
.
So there's a bridge with those options? Problem is, Ultras got people too reliant on them, and focus attacks fucked up a lot of options for people across the board, making some cases unbalanced. Do those options mean squat if the casual player is still losing to dumb shit?
There still a bridge here. Critical Arts with even more meter gain that before, v-skills and t-triggers that still help players out, and a focus on fundies. Again, that last thing is the most important here, because understanding your character, how they attack, how they move, and how they can punish is going to close that gap real fast between a casual player and middle tier player.
This is what I am afraid of... The game seems to be catering towards the hardcore, but the regular casual gamer who goes out and buys Assassin's Creed, Madden, Call of Duty every year might not stick around.
There needs to be something for the casual gamer to come in and enjoy and learn the game while having fun. The term easy to play but hard to master needs to be applied here hence we are beta testing it.
The regular casual gamer is where most hardcore people started. Nobody comes into this genre a master, or a savant. They learn just like everyone else. Those willing to stick around and learn the game's systems are the ones that need to stick around, plain as day. You can only dumb down or create so many options for casual players to hang around before they either get caught up in that shit and lose consistently or ruin it for the hardcore players.
I mean, you speak of ultras, but even casual players who paid attention didn't get struck by ultras on the regular.
People don't even have to put in as much time as before! You can get away with footies and fundies and not have to worry about dumping in hours upon hours doing 1f link combos and shit like that.
At some level, they will have to dump more hours to get better. That's just how life is. It's not fair to those who DO want to get better but don't have time, but hey, that's apart of life. No need to drag down those who DO put in those hours.
Hell, it's not even about hours spent. Work smart, not hard, and that applies to fighters too.
skLaFarebear
Member
Same. As much as i like 4 its hard for me to go back.
The problem that I see is that these characters are getting type cast to a specific role. The casual gamer can't play their "natural" game, but play a game around on how the character works. This becomes limiting factor with the current options given to the characters. Your counters are block or alpha counters, which can take you so far... I see there is less chance for upsets in SFV in terms regular person new to the game doing BS moves versus a veteran...
In SF4/USF4 although the character has specific type that you could play. They were given more options that allowed casual gamers to "build their own play style" that they could refine and play like how hardcore SF player would.
I guess, SFV removes the ability forming any type of "bad" habits playing the game and each character has a specific role or purpose in the game with its "lack" of abilities...
.
The tutorial needs to do a lot better job than what we have saw so far for the casual audience to learn the game or it will be huge learning gap.
Very true on this aspect.
Besides...wasn't SF4 initially a jumping point for those who remember SF, but weren't exactly hardcore players?
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
An abundance of universal system mechanics doesn't make for a more balanced game, as some characters can utilize those mechanics better than others. Street Fighter 3's parry, for example, ends up favoring close-range characters and characters who can get a lot of damage off of a single successful parry. And because the parry is a very effective technique when used correctly that's also available at all times (OK in air, requires no resources, reduces corner pressure), it centralizes the game around specific play styles.
Capcom explicitly used this sort of reasoning in an SF5 presentation. Since some characters could utilize Focus Attacks more effectively than others in SF4, they created V-Skill and V-Trigger with the intent of catering them to each individual character.
They could still completely fuck up the character balance, of course. But it would be easier for them to tweak a character's individual V-Skill than it would be to completely redesign a character so that he can make better use of universal mechanics.
Yep, Cammy getting a staple move of hers turned from a special to a V-Skill is a massive compliment to her character.
I'm sure glad I don't have to worry about DP FADC Ultra, DP FADC DP, Combo into Drill FADC into Combo and instead just do a way more personalized spinning backfist.
NoctisVsStar
Member
Gamers are becoming soft in this Political Correctness gaming era.
That's not how Parry ended up working.
The whole idea is to balance the characters, not balance ever single aspect if them.
If you look at Rasid's V-Skill and compare it to Karin's I think just about everyone will say Rashid has a better one. However they both have other parts to thier kit and which one is better seems to be contested.
Cammy's V-Skill is one of the more underwhelming ones, but this should be made up for with power elsewhere in her kit and even if she's under the curve right now the goal is to get her on par with everyone else.
So, it is hard to determine where Cammy sits at this moment. Some think she is really good, others seem to think that she is middle of the pack. However, let us assume she is already a good character... Obviously a buffed V-Skill would be too much. What would you suggest they nerf in exchange?
Personally, I do think her V-Skill is boring. I wish they did give her something more exciting. I would be totally down for her receiving some nerfs in other places to allow for a new V-Skill.
Stone Ocean
Member
Universal mechanics aren't "fair" when they almost never affect characters the same. Parries have been brought up already so just look at the focus system in SF4: all characters have access to focus, right? But each focus attack has different frame data and hitboxes, same goes for dashes and backdashes, so when you compare Fei Long to Viper you can't possibly call the system "fair" or whatever when Fei's focus is an integral part of his gameplan while Viper should probably never touch that move outside of stuns.
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