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[Einchy]

Why would I stop doing something that works? True its not EVO or anything but the goal is to win the match. If I'm doing something that's effective, I have no reason to stop doing it.

I play to have fun and turtling is one of the least fun things to do in any game. I've never been that guy who sits in a corner all game in CoD and I'm also not that guy who gets a life lead then runs away spamming fireballs while buffering SRK or whatever waiting for them to jump at me.

Especially when they do that alll game.

 

[FACE]

It seems everyone online thinks they have tens of thousands of dollars on the line.

I have less than 20 percent HP, you're almost full and you're going to just turtle fireball spam me, bro? Really?

Is this shit actually fun for people?

Winning is fun.

 

[BronsonLee]

To provide more detail;
I'm not referring to stuff like 'throwing is cheap!' or 'turtling is bad!', etc. It's annoying, especially if someone just tries the same thing over and over again (I had a Vega just try to Izuna Drop me the whole match because it worked twice), but that's the game. Want to beat it? Fix it.

I'm more referring to matches where there's a pretty clear skill gulf. You see this all the time in fighting games, really, with the exception of Virtua Fighter, where most players recognize it immediately and back off the throttle a bit. In other games (including this beta) people basically try to go hard in the paint 24/7, with the logic being that newbies should adapt and learn the game or fuck off.

 

[k4n3]

Why do people with garbage connections play online

one major thing ive always hated about console gaming is they never show you the ping, not that it would matter in this beta since you cant control anything but down the road it will

at the very least it might show people they need to get better wifi or get off it and run a cable

 

[The Yo Tornado]

Hell, I think zoning and getting around zoning is one of the more fun parts of fighting games. It's like a puzzle. Finding gaps in patterns, or making people guess wrong on where your own patterns are is fun in a Layton sort of way.

 

[gozu]

Alright, just gave up on Karin. [...]

Dropped from Rank 800 to like 3k while playing her as well.

Fuuuuuuuuck! I *TOLD* Capcom to only have character rankings, so players never get penalized for trying out new characters in ranked mode!

I think the current system discourages a player behavior that is positive for the game. We want players to try every single character for long periods of time, so that there is a maximum number of "clicks" happening.

Then we end up with a more highly skilled user-base, because players found the characters they are really best at.

Before you object, think about this:

Is rektash really "worth" his 3000 ranking? No. That is an inaccurate number. What is the value of an "overall" player ranking that takes into account every loss you have incurred while playing with a character you don't know?

None, am I right? Your rank should reflect every match you played with your best character, while trying to win. Nobody cares about how often you lose with your weak characters!

Here is the problem: Rankings in both SF and Chess use the ELO system but ELO only works for chess because players can't select different characters. The different character thing ruins it...

It's better to just use the rank of your top character as your player rank as well!

Are you listening Capcom? Stop doing the wrong thing and obey my orders!

I will now let GAF voice their agreement with me, and give added weight to my excellent analysis.

Give it to em boys!

 

[Attleborotaco]

Why do people with garbage connections play online

I was having fun playing Local vs my friends, but the beta forces you to play online, so blame the beta.

 

[Dremark]

Why would I stop doing something that works? True its not EVO or anything but the goal is to win the match. If I'm doing something that's effective, I have no reason to stop doing it.

I feel exactly the same way. I actually had a Rashid down to a silver when I was near full and he pulled it off. Just because it doesn't count doesn't mean there's no reason to go all out. I play to win everything.

On the other hand people DCing in this a just pathetic. Not to say that isn't the case normally too, but the fact that nothing is on the line makes it even more petty than usual.

 

[『Inaba Resident』]

I play to have fun and turtling is one of the least fun things to do in any game. I've never been that guy who sits in a corner all game in CoD and I'm also not that guy who gets a life lead then runs away spamming fireballs while buffering SRK or whatever waiting for them to jump at me.

Especially when they do that alll game.

I also play for fun and part of having fun for me is winning. I also enjoy zoning and trying to keep my opponent out. Yeah, its a beta and some people shouldn't take it that seriously but if you really don't like it, then adapt and beat it.

 

[wamberz1]

I have to say, aside from the controller stuff I'm really impressed with the pc beta thus far. Considering this is testing cross play I was expecting way more hiccups than I've been getting. Right now I'm getting a match every minute, and it's awesome!

 

[Fernando Fernandez]

It seems everyone online thinks they have tens of thousands of dollars on the line.

I have less than 20 percent HP, you're almost full and you're going to just turtle fireball spam me, bro? Really?

Is this shit actually fun for people?

MA FIGHT MONEY

I just hope you can earn it offline or I'm doomed.

 

[Gbraga]

What is still giving me some trouble is knowing what is and isn't punishable just by the animation.

 

[GuardianE]

I play to have fun and turtling is one of the least fun things to do in any game. I've never been that guy who sits in a corner all game in CoD and I'm also not that guy who gets a life lead then runs away spamming fireballs while buffering SRK or whatever waiting for them to jump at me.

Especially when they do that alll game.

So you're advocating that people make dumb decisions to appease you? The zoning game is an important part of fighting games, and improving that game is fun for people. You might as well get used to it now.

 

[BronsonLee]

And let's be real here. We all freaking know the kind of people we're talking about here. People being online warriors in a fighting game is not new hat.

 

[Resolution]

i'm currently ranked 69 Kappa

 

[Tripon]

Zoning is already nerfed in general in SFV, and only Ken and Rashid can throw projectiles in this build. What more do you want, for characters that are built around a tool to not use it?

 

[GuardianE]

i'm currently ranked 69 Kappa

Infiltration would be jealous.

 

[Gbraga]

I have to say, aside from the controller stuff I'm really impressed with the pc beta thus far. Considering this is testing cross play I was expecting way more hiccups than I've been getting. Right now I'm getting a match every minute, and it's awesome!

Is crossplay already working? Do we know that for a fact? It's strangely smooth, indeed.

The game also runs much, much better than I was expecting for a beta. Sure, it needs to be somewhat polished to have consistent performance in order to properly test the game, but I most definitely wasn't expecting my PC to handle it as well as it did.

 

[raven777]

connection has been terrible in last few matches.

 

[Sixfortyfive]

Why do people with garbage connections play online

Because the beta forces them to. :V

It seems everyone online thinks they have tens of thousands of dollars on the line.

I have less than 20 percent HP, you're almost full and you're going to just turtle fireball spam me, bro? Really?

Is this shit actually fun for people?

Paging Scrubquotes.

 

[Ginger Hail]

Are the servers actually up right now? I could have sworn they were scheduled to be down for the earlier half of the day.

 

[mnz]

It seems everyone online thinks they have tens of thousands of dollars on the line.

I have less than 20 percent HP, you're almost full and you're going to just turtle fireball spam me, bro? Really?

Is this shit actually fun for people?

I actually enjoy zoning and countering. Sucks for you, I guess.

 

[Kysuke]

It seems everyone online thinks they have tens of thousands of dollars on the line.

I have less than 20 percent HP, you're almost full and you're going to just turtle fireball spam me, bro? Really?

Is this shit actually fun for people?

Dont take this thw wrong way, but your way of thinking is that of the casual player. A serious/competitive player will do what they think is the best option to win. and thats how the hardcore fighters have fun.

 

[Holy Order Sol]

It seems everyone online thinks they have tens of thousands of dollars on the line.

I have less than 20 percent HP, you're almost full and you're going to just turtle fireball spam me, bro? Really?

Is this shit actually fun for people?

A player who's managed to get a life lead is not going to throw it away just to entertain you.

Hell if this were offline and you were vocal about your frustration they'd probably feed off it as feedback that they're doing it right.

 

[The Yo Tornado]

Honestly zoning is less of a deal than ever, now, since chip can't kill. I've actually sat and chilled back with Mika in a few pixel situations just waiting for a dropkick crush counter when a few Kens got too lazy with their fireballs.

 

[Kysuke]

any karin bnbs?

 

[Alucrid]

I play to have fun and turtling is one of the least fun things to do in any game. I've never been that guy who sits in a corner all game in CoD and I'm also not that guy who gets a life lead then runs away spamming fireballs while buffering SRK or whatever waiting for them to jump at me.

Especially when they do that alll game.

tldr i'm not good at this game

 

[raven777]

Rashid seems so fast I don't know what to do when he rushes towards me.

 

[BronsonLee]

I feel like it's worth pointing out that bagging heavily on Einchy's post about getting frustrated is the exact kind of behavior that helps nobody.

Rashid seems so fast I don't know what to do when he rushes towards me.

As a Rashid player? Block. He doesn't have a low option out of the dash immediately, he has to stop.

 

[Gbraga]

any karin bnbs?

c. MP, c. MK xx QCF K~P, V. Skill is decent and builds some V-gauge.

You can also start directly from c. MK for extra range, but it's much harder to hit confirm.

If your oponent is cornered, instead of v. skill, do another QCF K~P and then EX QCB P.

There are also some cool shit using her V. Trigger, but I wouldn't consider it BNB.

As a Rashid player? Block. He doesn't have a low option out of the dash immediately, he has to stop.

Should I respect your wakeup? I think the only wakeup thing I got hit from by Rashid players was wakeup super, but they weren't very familiar with the character.

 

[Einchy]

So you're advocating that people make dumb decisions to appease you? The zoning game is an important part of fighting games, and improving that game is fun for people. You might as well get used to it now.

No, I'm not and I understand that it's a huge part of being a good player but when it's the only thing you do then that shit is just downright annoying. I've come across so many that I've seen turtle, I've stopped trying to get near them and just waited to see what they did and they just sat there doing nothing.

Like I said, when I see this I can't help but wonder if they're having any fun.

Zoning is already nerfed in general in SFV, and only Ken and Rashid can throw projectiles in this build. What more do you want, for characters that are built around a tool to not use it?

I was specific talking more generally in terms of fighting games all around and to some extent just online gaming. Not saying it's "cheap" because there's nothing that's actually cheap(unless it's so OP that it's broken) but just the general mindset of waiting for other people to do everything for a whole match.

I'd rather get a 15k BP rank 1 player who destroyed me in 2 seconds since he's so good then get a player who has 5.5k BP is rank 500-ish like myself that has each match almost timeout because of their playstyle.

 

[The Yo Tornado]

No, I'm not and I understand that it's a huge part of being a good player but when it's the only thing you do then that shit is just downright annoying. I've come across so many that I've seen turtle, I've stopped trying to get near them and just waited to see what they did and they just sat there doing nothing.

Like I said, when I see this I can't help but wonder if they're having any fun.

You really should look into what your character's best options are against fireballs. Pretty much everyone has at least one anti-projectile move, and they usually get really big rewards off of the right read. If you hit someone with a 40%+ punish because they threw one too many they'll definitely learn for the next round.

 

[raven777]

As a Rashid player? Block. He doesn't have a low option out of the dash immediately, he has to stop.

Yea it's probably because I haven't touched Rashid myself so I don't know his movesets.
That spinning dash move seems to have no delay so I can't counter against it other than just blocking it the whole time.

 

[BronsonLee]

Should I respect your wakeup? I think the only wakeup thing I got hit from by Rashid players was wakeup super, but they weren't very familiar with the character.

Eh...I'm 50/50 on that. There's stuff I can try, but I would likely try to roll out and create distance again.

Yea it's probably because I haven't touched Rashid myself so I don't know his movesets.
That spinning dash move seems to have no delay so I can't counter against it other than just blocking it the whole time.

Three specials: The spinning move (forward, diagonal up, and up depending on strength), and the eagle kick (distance covered depending on strength). His skill is that diagonal up dive which he can divekick out of.

For that spinning dash, it's safe if they don't mash (I think), but if they do, just punish.

 

[Hutchie]

I need an arcade stick bad as execution on ds4 is terrible! Got a lot more matches today and connection is good!

 

[Tripon]

I feel like it's worth pointing out that bagging heavily on Einchy's post about getting frustrated is the exact kind of behavior that helps nobody.



As a Rashid player? Block. He doesn't have a low option out of the dash immediately, he has to stop.

Eh, Einchy and everyone who thinks zoning is scrubby needs to reminded that A) that is your opinion and not everyone will agree and B) expecting anyone to change their play style to suit you is selfish. Especially when its just online and you don't know each other. You want another player to change tactics or his/her play style? Force him/her to by attacking the weaknesses of their game.

And if you can't in a match and lose? Hold that, learn from it and use it for the next match.

 

[Resolution]

Rashid is such a badly designed character why is everything he does plus on block?

 

[kirblar]

Rashid is such a badly designed character why is everything he does plus on block?

The tuning/balance and the design are not the same thing. Tuning here is definitely off on a bunch of characters, but that's to be expected, it's a beta. Overall move/playstyle design seems great.

 

[nded]

No, I'm not and I understand that it's a huge part of being a good player but when it's the only thing you do then that shit is just downright annoying. I've come across so many that I've seen turtle, I've stopped trying to get near them and just waited to see what they did and they just sat there doing nothing.

Like I said, when I see this I can't help but wonder if they're having any fun.

It sounds like they're doing more than turtling if they're able to swat you away if you get near. What exactly are you doing to try to get around it?

 

[BronsonLee]

stuff

Calling him a scrub and giving him shit in the typical FGC way does nothing for him. I'm referring to that.

 

[Skab]

Are the servers actually up right now? I could have sworn they were scheduled to be down for the earlier half of the day.

Yes. The cancelled that maintenance to make up for all the issues we've had.

https://twitter.com/SFVServer/status/657819706498289664

 

[hey_it's_that_dog]

I play to have fun and turtling is one of the least fun things to do in any game. I've never been that guy who sits in a corner all game in CoD and I'm also not that guy who gets a life lead then runs away spamming fireballs while buffering SRK or whatever waiting for them to jump at me.

Especially when they do that alll game.

Changing tactics depending on life lead and zoning are both fundamental aspects of play. If you ever find yourself annoyed that someone is trying too hard to win, take a moment, acknowledge that you are being scrubby, and practice beating those tactics instead of complaining about them, because that's the game and always will be.

Alternatively, find friends who also don't care about winning and just play with them. That's how I played against my brother for many years.

 

[Dremark]

I play to have fun and turtling is one of the least fun things to do in any game. I've never been that guy who sits in a corner all game in CoD and I'm also not that guy who gets a life lead then runs away spamming fireballs while buffering SRK or whatever waiting for them to jump at me.

Especially when they do that alll game.

Not my way to play the game, but it isn't any less valid of a strategy than anything else.

To provide more detail;
I'm not referring to stuff like 'throwing is cheap!' or 'turtling is bad!', etc. It's annoying, especially if someone just tries the same thing over and over again (I had a Vega just try to Izuna Drop me the whole match because it worked twice), but that's the game. Want to beat it? Fix it.

I'm more referring to matches where there's a pretty clear skill gulf. You see this all the time in fighting games, really, with the exception of Virtua Fighter, where most players recognize it immediately and back off the throttle a bit. In other games (including this beta) people basically try to go hard in the paint 24/7, with the logic being that newbies should adapt and learn the game or fuck off.

It's not a matter of being nice or not, the way these games are played you play to win and if you can't deal with losing you're not going to enjoy them. I played fighting games back int he arcades starting with SF1, but I really learned them when a tournament MVC2 player entered my group of friends. It was actually really funny the first time I played him because I not only did not know he was a high level player, but what a high level player was capable of was not even something I could comprehend, so I had never been beaten so badly in my entire life. As a result of this, I stuck with it, learned how to play against him and he became one of my closest friends over the years, my other friends in that group largely stopped playing Fighting Games.

There were times when I felt like my friend was being mean by not taking it easy on me, but the truth is if you're not playing at your best you're not really playing the game. If he had "taken it easy on me" he would have hurt his own game by developing bad habits and I wouldn't have learned a higher level of enjoyment for them and improved. Neither of us would have benefited from that.

That's what it ultimately comes down to, you play your best and if the other person can't deal with losing, they aren't going to last. Winning is the part of the game everyone likes the most, but the path to that is built on your loses and you move down that road with your tenacity and drive.

If I stomp someone and they don't want to play and quit, I feel like I'm done them a favor and saved their time. If I stomp someone and they learn from it, or it helps build their resolve I feel like I've done them a favor too. It's not malice, it's just part of the game.

 

[CoyoteSpitfire]

I think I'm going to have to take a break. These last two connections have been awful.

Gettin real sick of hitting someone, seeing them reel back, trying to continue my combo, only to have them snap back to blocking (and regenerating their health) and then punish me.

 

[Shinriji]

I just had my first ragequit, playing against a flowchart Ken. Hilarious.

 

[The Yo Tornado]

I think I'm going to have to take a break. These last two connections have been awful.

Gettin real sick of hitting someone, seeing them reel back, trying to continue my combo, only to have them snap back to blocking (and regenerating their health) and then punish me.

Yeah, generally I prefer rollback to delay netcode, but man bad rollback connections are the literal WORST. Most frustrating things to play in for sure.

 

[KAL2006]

We need to do a petition for Capcom to have rankings based on characters. Not overall ranking. If I am destroying everyone with Ken and I am on a high rank. When I want to try out Rashid my rank for Rashid should be low so when I go online I don't get destroyed as I am already on a high rank due to my wins with Ken.

This makes me want to go back to Ken as trying Rashid os effecting my rankings.

 

[BronsonLee]

stuff

Yeah, this is false. For every story like yours, there's probably hundreds where people got turned off from fighting games because instead of helping to learn the game, they got absolutely shit on from a great height from people with a higher skill level.

If he was high level, he'd be good enough to back off the throttle. I know in VF5 I was, and it didn't affect when I would actually play. And this particular quote:

If I stomp someone and they don't want to play and quit, I feel like I'm done them a favor and saved their time. If I stomp someone and they learn from it, or it helps build their resolve I feel like I've done them a favor too. It's not malice, it's just part of the game.

Is a large portion as to why fighting games have the largest barrier to play. That attitude helps absolutely nobody. Remember The Dark Ages before SF4? Stuff like this is why. And it's only gotten worse with the rise of online.

 

[nded]

Calling him a scrub and giving him shit in the typical FGC way does nothing for him. I'm referring to that.

I'm not saying fighting game dudes on the internet aren't abrasive, but I feel like einchy's post would have gone over a lot better if he had asked for advice on how to overcome turtling or otherwise shown an interest in improving his game instead of calling his opponent disgusting.

 

[hey_it's_that_dog]

I just had my first ragequit, playing against a flowchart Ken. Hilarious.

I'm seeing a lot of talk of rage quits, but are we sure they aren't just legit disconnects? How many button presses and how much time would it actually take to quit the match? Wouldn't their character just be standing there long enough for you to KO them? You think people are yanking out their internet cables to avoid a loss? It takes forever to load back into the game. Why would anyone do that?

I'm not saying fighting game dudes on the internet aren't abrasive, but I feel like einchy's post would have gone over a lot better if he had asked for advice on how to overcome turtling or otherwise shown an interest in improving his game instead of calling his opponent disgusting.

Seriously. His bad attitude was met in kind. It's not an FGC thing.