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Street Fighter V |OT40002| it's been a Guile, but Urien for a wait

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S

Shito

Member
Skilletor said:
Because it's what makes fighting them unique?

Every character gets different tools. Fireball/uppercut is an entire archetype created by Ryu. He has it because it was invented with him and it's propagated throughout pretty much every other 2D fighter ever because of this concept.
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I feel like "because it just is" is nowhere near a good reason, though. His fireballs and dragon punch are indeed his archetype, but the dragon punch was created to compliment his fireball, and allow him to punish people that would try to jump over "safe" fireballs. It was *not* created as a mean for him to invincible reversal outside of an oki situation, this is just a byproduct of needing invincible frames on his DP to make it a properly good anti-air. The question is: does he really need this option, and why other characters don't?
You can clearly see in SFV design that CC are there to kinda justify that you shouldn't throw too many reversal DP or else you are going to get severely punished for it, but it doesn't justify why other characters don't have the right to have a proper invincible reversal of their own, which may or may not be a DP.
 
S

Skilletor

Member
Shito said:
I feel like "because it just is" is nowhere near a good reason, though. His fireballs and dragon punch are indeed his archetype, but the dragon punch was created to compliment his fireball, and allow him to punish people that would try to jump over "safe" fireballs. It was *not* created as a mean for him to invincible reversal outside of an oki situation, this is just a byproduct of needing invincible frames on his DP to make it a properly good anti-air. The question is: does he really need this option, and why other characters don't?
You can clearly see in SFV design that CC are there to kinda justify that you shouldn't throw too many reversal DP or else you are going to get severely punished for it, but it doesn't justify why other characters don't have the right to have a proper invincible reversal of their own, which may or may not be a DP.
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/shrug

Because that would be boring to fight against, imo. I think universal options are awful and make games much worse.

Btw, you don't need invincible frames, you could make srks upper body invincible to work as anti airs. There are ways around it other than complete invincibility. To me, it's a conscious design decision for the way they want the character to play.
 
S

Shito

Member
Skilletor said:
/shrug

Because that would be boring to fight against, imo. I think universal options are awful and make games much worse.

Btw, you don't need invincible frames, you could make srks upper body invincible to work as anti airs. There are ways around it other than complete invincibility. To me, it's a conscious design decision for the way they want the character to play.
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Maybe, I don't know.
As a Laura player I still don't understand, for example, why I can go ham on a downed Dictator or meterless Karin, but not a Ryu or a Ken: neither one of them wants me in their private space, and they would all love to have an option to push away from them, resetting the game to their preferred footsies distance while doing some damage to me AND make me think twice about pressuring them on their wake-up next time.
 
S

Skilletor

Member
Shito said:
Maybe, I don't know.
As a Laura player I still don't understand, for example, why I can go ham on a downed Dictator or meterless Karin, but not a Ryu or a Ken: neither one of them wants me in their private space, and they would all love to have an option to push away from them, resetting the game to their preferred footsies distance while doing some damage to me AND make me think twice about pressuring them on their wake-up next time.
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I think that's exactly the point. Why should every character have similar options? That's boring.
 
S

Shito

Member
Skilletor said:
Yes, but, again...that's the point. lol. Otherwise we'd have one character and do mirror matches all day. That's the only way a fighting game would ever be "fair."
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Well, to be fair, having common tools doesn't mean you can't create some unique ones as well. Universal overheads in 3.3 was a neat thing, as were the universal reversals in P4A: it didn't prevent characters from having different archetypes as well.
 
S

Skilletor

Member
Shito said:
Well, to be fair, having common tools doesn't mean you can't create some unique ones as well. Universal overheads in 3.3 was a neat thing, as were the universal reversals in P4A: it didn't prevent characters from having different archetypes as well.
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Yeah, but I hate Persona and find offense extremely boring in that game. :p

Even still, the reversals were all functionally different, and you still come up with the same question of why Yu and Mitsuru have upppers but Chie and Yosuke have counters. I'm sure the active frames and invincibility data is different on each of them as well. They're essentially just another special move.
 
S

Shito

Member
Skilletor said:
Yeah, but I hate Persona and find offense extremely boring in that game. :p
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I loved P4A, if only for Elizabeth: there was something special playing a mix-up / command grab character from a whole screen away. <3
Then they killed her gameplan in Ultimax, so I stopped playing.

You are right about characters having a counter has their universal DP though.
 
S

Skilletor

Member
Shito said:
I loved P4A, if only for Elizabeth: there was something special playing a mix-up / command grab character from a whole screen away. <3
Then they killed her gameplan in Ultimax, so I stopped playing.

You are right about characters having a counter has their universal DP though.
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I love the character designs, love the aesthetic, and even enjoy watching it.

GG is the only anime game I've ever been able to get in to.
 
D

DunpealD

Member
Skilletor said:
/shrug

Because that would be boring to fight against, imo. I think universal options are awful and make games much worse.

Btw, you don't need invincible frames, you could make srks upper body invincible to work as anti airs. There are ways around it other than complete invincibility. To me, it's a conscious design decision for the way they want the character to play.
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Supposedly Guile Flash Kicks do have upper body invincibility and go over to a few frames of full invincibility. I thought upper body invincibility would be enough before trying out Guile, but I often get stuffed where the dp does not and also get a lot of trades actually. Add insult to injury he even gets counter hit on recovery even though it's not even a reversal outside of EX. Anti airing with Guile right now is quite challenging.
 
S

Skilletor

Member
DunpealD said:
Supposedly Guile Flash Kicks do have upper body invincibility and go over to a few frames of full invincibility. I thought upper body invincibility would be enough before trying out Guile, but I often get stuffed where the dp does not and also get a lot of trades actually. Add insult to injury he even gets counter hit on recovery even though it's not even a reversal outside of EX. Anti airing with Guile right now is quite challenging.
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Yeah, his are really weird. I find lk to be the only reliable AA, I get stuffed all the time when I try mk or hk.

Guile needs some tweaks for sure, though.
 
OrochiJR

OrochiJR

Member
Any chance that Capcom are on radio silence because they are hard at work on a big update dropping soon? We still have no Zenny shop, no Daily challenges and there has been no explicit announcement of an arcade mode, only vague statements like "we're looking into delivering more content down the line". Besides arcade, this stuff was announced before launch. Hope we get something soon.

When their one guy is done with the netcode he better get started coding some ingame shit. :p
 
L

lucebuce12

Member
OrochiJR said:
Any chance that Capcom are on radio silence because they are hard at work on a big update dropping soon? We still have no Zenny shop, no Daily challenges and there has been no explicit announcement of an arcade mode, only vague statements like "we're looking into delivering more content down the line". Besides arcade, this stuff was announced before launch. Hope we get something soon.

When their one guy is done with the netcode he better get started coding some ingame shit. :p
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That was just one guy working on their netcode BEFORE release. I am fairly confident they've doubled the amount of people working on it now.
 
M

mbpm1

Member
lucebuce12 said:
That was just one guy working on their netcode BEFORE release. I am fairly confident they've doubled the amount of people working on it now.
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Doubled the amount? Nah, maybe they increased it to 1.5.

The half a dude, is Combofiend doing his best via google.
 
N

Neoxon

Junior Member
lucebuce12 said:
Holy Shit, SFV Balrog's special move list got leaked!

He really is a motion character.
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