Support NeoGAF

[Trickster]

How the hell are you supposed to fight Alex as Juri lol? Litterally couldn't do a thing, got stunned, crush countered and command grabbed repeatedly

 

[the_log_ride]

total accumulation counts; you don't need 1MM all at once

Confirmed that you don't need it all at once. Go ahead and spend.

Woohoo! Thanks to you both.

 

[Rice-Eater]

Only being able to play late at night freaking sucks. I'm running into the same people all the time. Especially this this EXP farming Dhalsim named "SmufyD" in Casuals. I think I've played him at least 10 times tonight. Even when I delay my search for new opponents, he's still there waiting for me because no one else is available right now I suppose. I'd love to play some Platinums, Diamonds, or even Super/Ultra Silvers just so long as I have an actual person to play.

 

[Ucchedavāda]

Only being able to play late at night freaking sucks. I'm running into the same people all the time. Especially this this EXP farming Dhalsim named "SmufyD" in Casuals. I think I've played him at least 10 times tonight. Even when I delay my search for new opponents, he's still there waiting for me because no one else is available right now I suppose. I'd love to play some Platinums, Diamonds, or even Super/Ultra Silvers just so long as I have an actual person to play.

If you are on Windows, you could try figuring out their IPs and block them via your firewall. If SFV works like IV, then you should be looking at the UDP traffic.

 

[Trickster]

The thing that annoys me the most in this game is that Capcom only intends to make one balance patch per year. Like it's so mindboogling that they seriously are going to do that.

I am just so damn tired of fighting Ryu's that you can't do anything against....

 

[Rocky_Balboa]

Anyone playing Balrog have a suggestion on what to do after a crush counter standing roundhouse? It usually pushes the opponent too far for any cancellable normals to reach so I've been doing medium dash grand blow (for the knockdown and positioning).

Most combo videos involve walk forward a bit, which requires me seeing the CC coming. I'll work on it.

Walk f ~ s.HK ~c.MP xx something
Dash f ~ s.lk -> s.mk -> s.hk
dash f ~ s.mk -> s.mk xx MP+MK + P or K
dash f ~ any combo you can start with s.LP/c.LP/s.LK/c.LK

I usually go for lk-mk-hk target combo because it is the easiest.

 

[NoctisVsStar]

The thing that annoys me the most in this game is that Capcom only intends to make one balance patch per year. Like it's so mindboogling that they seriously are going to do that.

I am just so damn tired of fighting Ryu's that you can't do anything against....

It's been done that way for years. You'll get small patches that fix small stuff that weren't intended but big balance patches only once a year because people are too reactionary and demand this and that to be buffed/nerfed. If they patch the game constantly you get a mess like MK.. Gotta let the meta develop.

Ryu dmg output gotta be fixed and buff someone like Ibuki's dmg.

 

[crap monkey]

The thing that annoys me the most in this game is that Capcom only intends to make one balance patch per year. Like it's so mindboogling that they seriously are going to do that.

I am just so damn tired of fighting Ryu's that you can't do anything against....

This generation of players are really spoiled. Don't rely on the developers to fix your shortcomings as a player. You can do plenty against Ryu. Watch some videos, read up on matchups and go into training mode. Listening to crying fans every other week and changing things on a whim are not how fighting games operate. Getting bi-weekly updates to change some frame data for the benefit of a group of internet crybabies who will find something different to get up in arms about when some different piece of frame data makes them angry a few days later is a terrible approach to game balance. This isn't League of Legends where you have 5 out of 150 (or whatever crazy number they're up to) characters paired up in thousands of different combinations going up against another 5 characters in another thousand different combinations. It's one character vs the other. Balance is fine tuned and considered heavily before changing even one frame that could turn a bad character into a good one and vice-versa. The good developers have a team of internal balance testers that know the game in and out while also considering character pick rates, win rates, tournament results, and other data they deem relevant to game balance. SFIV had a balance patch (to go along with some some shiny DLC most of the time) literally once a year (except 2013) since its release and no other time, and the game is considered one the best balanced games through its iterations. You're just as bad as the people yelling that Juri is garbage or that she is the next SF3 Chun two days after release. Nobody can truly judge how good a character is until you put in the time, learn their strengths and weaknesses, what their matchups are, what options they have available in any given situation, etc. That shit takes time and reacting to every little problem people have with a character every so often won't make balance any more even, the game anymore fun, and you any better.

 

[Skilletor]

This generation of players are really spoiled. Don't rely on the developers to fix your shortcomings as a player. You can do plenty against Ryu. Watch some videos, read up on matchups and go into training mode. Listening to crying fans every other week and changing things on a whim are not how fighting games operate. Getting bi-weekly updates to change some frame data for the benefit of a group of internet crybabies who will find something different to get up in arms about when some different piece of frame data makes them angry a few days later is a terrible approach to game balance. This isn't League of Legends where you have 5 out of 150 (or whatever crazy number they're up to) characters paired up in thousands of different combinations going up against another 5 characters in another thousand different combinations. It's one character vs the other. Balance is fine tuned and considered heavily before changing even one frame that could turn a bad character into a good one and vice-versa. The good developers have a team of internal balance testers that know the game in and out while also considering character pick rates, win rates, tournament results, and other data they deem relevant to game balance. SFIV had a balance patch (to go along with some some shiny DLC most of the time) literally once a year (except 2013) since its release and no other time, and the game is considered one the best balanced games through its iterations. You're just as bad as the people yelling that Juri is garbage or that she is the next SF3 Chun two days after release. Nobody can truly judge how good a character is until you put in the time, learn their strengths and weaknesses, what their matchups are, what options they have available in any given situation, etc. That shit takes time and reacting to every little problem people have with a character every so often won't make balance any more even, the game anymore fun, and you any better.

I love this post.

 

[Moaradin]

Only being able to play late at night freaking sucks. I'm running into the same people all the time. Especially this this EXP farming Dhalsim named "SmufyD" in Casuals. I think I've played him at least 10 times tonight. Even when I delay my search for new opponents, he's still there waiting for me because no one else is available right now I suppose. I'd love to play some Platinums, Diamonds, or even Super/Ultra Silvers just so long as I have an actual person to play.

Now I'm constantly getting this fucker. I can never find any real games playing Casual Match. Dunno why I always play during this time...

 

[Hutchie]

juri's trials took me combined an hour im getting worse at fighting games

capcom have got to sort out daily challenges asap! i want that fight money now!

 

[skLaFarebear]

Ryu is strong but he's certainly beatable when you compare him to characters in other games like like Johnny, Sin and Elphelt in Rev who got hit with the nerf hard, but it was way more necessary in that case (at least for Johnny and Elphelt, they went a bit too hard with Sin imo).

I'm not expecting much to change with the balance patch anyway (outside of the DLC characters since some of them feel really lacking) tbh. The really lower end characters will get some buffs/new stuff, but I doubt Capcom makes any major changes to the top characters.

 

[EndcatOmega]

Speaking of Sin, he's pretty much an example of why you don't do constant balance patches; people had him at mid or mid-high for a while until Revelator (which did not change any of his moves) where he was regarded as pretty much S tier till the balance patch (...I think FAB still had him at mid but FAB is weird). SFV might not have the same tech ceiling, and the days of people sleeping on characters for 5 years ala Dee Jay are long gone, but once a year seems perfectly fine for a shake up and then seeing how things land.

 

[MrCarter]

This generation of players are really spoiled. Don't rely on the developers to fix your shortcomings as a player. You can do plenty against Ryu. Watch some videos, read up on matchups and go into training mode. Listening to crying fans every other week and changing things on a whim are not how fighting games operate. Getting bi-weekly updates to change some frame data for the benefit of a group of internet crybabies who will find something different to get up in arms about when some different piece of frame data makes them angry a few days later is a terrible approach to game balance. This isn't League of Legends where you have 5 out of 150 (or whatever crazy number they're up to) characters paired up in thousands of different combinations going up against another 5 characters in another thousand different combinations. It's one character vs the other. Balance is fine tuned and considered heavily before changing even one frame that could turn a bad character into a good one and vice-versa. The good developers have a team of internal balance testers that know the game in and out while also considering character pick rates, win rates, tournament results, and other data they deem relevant to game balance. SFIV had a balance patch (to go along with some some shiny DLC most of the time) literally once a year (except 2013) since its release and no other time, and the game is considered one the best balanced games through its iterations. You're just as bad as the people yelling that Juri is garbage or that she is the next SF3 Chun two days after release. Nobody can truly judge how good a character is until you put in the time, learn their strengths and weaknesses, what their matchups are, what options they have available in any given situation, etc. That shit takes time and reacting to every little problem people have with a character every so often won't make balance any more even, the game anymore fun, and you any better.

Great post. This needs to be plastered across event scrubs and generally all over the internet.

 

[hey_it's_that_dog]

It's 1ms, I play all my games on it. Amazing color, contrast and brightness too. For the price you can't go wrong.

Also for anyone who owns a Dreamcast with a VGA box, this monitor makes Dreamcast games look incredible.

The input lag, which is separate from response time, is 10ms according to input lag database. Still excellent, but not 1ms.

 

[Neoxon]

The thing that annoys me the most in this game is that Capcom only intends to make one balance patch per year. Like it's so mindboogling that they seriously are going to do that.

I am just so damn tired of fighting Ryu's that you can't do anything against....

This generation of players are really spoiled. Don't rely on the developers to fix your shortcomings as a player. You can do plenty against Ryu. Watch some videos, read up on matchups and go into training mode. Listening to crying fans every other week and changing things on a whim are not how fighting games operate. Getting bi-weekly updates to change some frame data for the benefit of a group of internet crybabies who will find something different to get up in arms about when some different piece of frame data makes them angry a few days later is a terrible approach to game balance. This isn't League of Legends where you have 5 out of 150 (or whatever crazy number they're up to) characters paired up in thousands of different combinations going up against another 5 characters in another thousand different combinations. It's one character vs the other. Balance is fine tuned and considered heavily before changing even one frame that could turn a bad character into a good one and vice-versa. The good developers have a team of internal balance testers that know the game in and out while also considering character pick rates, win rates, tournament results, and other data they deem relevant to game balance. SFIV had a balance patch (to go along with some some shiny DLC most of the time) literally once a year (except 2013) since its release and no other time, and the game is considered one the best balanced games through its iterations. You're just as bad as the people yelling that Juri is garbage or that she is the next SF3 Chun two days after release. Nobody can truly judge how good a character is until you put in the time, learn their strengths and weaknesses, what their matchups are, what options they have available in any given situation, etc. That shit takes time and reacting to every little problem people have with a character every so often won't make balance any more even, the game anymore fun, and you any better.

 

[lucebuce12]

This generation of players are really spoiled. Don't rely on the developers to fix your shortcomings as a player. You can do plenty against Ryu. Watch some videos, read up on matchups and go into training mode. Listening to crying fans every other week and changing things on a whim are not how fighting games operate. Getting bi-weekly updates to change some frame data for the benefit of a group of internet crybabies who will find something different to get up in arms about when some different piece of frame data makes them angry a few days later is a terrible approach to game balance. This isn't League of Legends where you have 5 out of 150 (or whatever crazy number they're up to) characters paired up in thousands of different combinations going up against another 5 characters in another thousand different combinations. It's one character vs the other. Balance is fine tuned and considered heavily before changing even one frame that could turn a bad character into a good one and vice-versa. The good developers have a team of internal balance testers that know the game in and out while also considering character pick rates, win rates, tournament results, and other data they deem relevant to game balance. SFIV had a balance patch (to go along with some some shiny DLC most of the time) literally once a year (except 2013) since its release and no other time, and the game is considered one the best balanced games through its iterations. You're just as bad as the people yelling that Juri is garbage or that she is the next SF3 Chun two days after release. Nobody can truly judge how good a character is until you put in the time, learn their strengths and weaknesses, what their matchups are, what options they have available in any given situation, etc. That shit takes time and reacting to every little problem people have with a character every so often won't make balance any more even, the game anymore fun, and you any better.

Preach brother, preach.

 

[CountBlack]

This generation of players are really spoiled. Don't rely on the developers to fix your shortcomings as a player. You can do plenty against Ryu. Watch some videos, read up on matchups and go into training mode. Listening to crying fans every other week and changing things on a whim are not how fighting games operate. Getting bi-weekly updates to change some frame data for the benefit of a group of internet crybabies who will find something different to get up in arms about when some different piece of frame data makes them angry a few days later is a terrible approach to game balance. This isn't League of Legends where you have 5 out of 150 (or whatever crazy number they're up to) characters paired up in thousands of different combinations going up against another 5 characters in another thousand different combinations. It's one character vs the other. Balance is fine tuned and considered heavily before changing even one frame that could turn a bad character into a good one and vice-versa. The good developers have a team of internal balance testers that know the game in and out while also considering character pick rates, win rates, tournament results, and other data they deem relevant to game balance. SFIV had a balance patch (to go along with some some shiny DLC most of the time) literally once a year (except 2013) since its release and no other time, and the game is considered one the best balanced games through its iterations. You're just as bad as the people yelling that Juri is garbage or that she is the next SF3 Chun two days after release. Nobody can truly judge how good a character is until you put in the time, learn their strengths and weaknesses, what their matchups are, what options they have available in any given situation, etc. That shit takes time and reacting to every little problem people have with a character every so often won't make balance any more even, the game anymore fun, and you any better.

i said WOW

Speaking of Sin, he's pretty much an example of why you don't do constant balance patches; people had him at mid or mid-high for a while until Revelator (which change any of his moves) where he was regarded as pretty much S tier till the balance patch (...I think FAB still had him at mid but FAB is weird). SFV might not have the same tech ceiling, and the days of people sleeping on characters for 5 years ala Dee Jay or long gone, but once a year seems perfectly fine for a shake up and then seeing how things land.

wait wat

 

[Sixfortyfive]

The input lag, which is separate from response time, is 10ms according to input lag database. Still excellent, but not 1ms.

Most modern measurements of input lag are done using a Leo Bodnar tester. "Lag-free" CRTs clock in at 8ms using that method, so 10ms is basically no difference.

 

[EndcatOmega]

i said WOW



wait wat

I'm exaggerating, but wasn't he regarded as trash in Super Turbo for years?

 

[Trickster]

This generation of players are really spoiled. Don't rely on the developers to fix your shortcomings as a player. You can do plenty against Ryu. Watch some videos, read up on matchups and go into training mode. Listening to crying fans every other week and changing things on a whim are not how fighting games operate. Getting bi-weekly updates to change some frame data for the benefit of a group of internet crybabies who will find something different to get up in arms about when some different piece of frame data makes them angry a few days later is a terrible approach to game balance. This isn't League of Legends where you have 5 out of 150 (or whatever crazy number they're up to) characters paired up in thousands of different combinations going up against another 5 characters in another thousand different combinations. It's one character vs the other. Balance is fine tuned and considered heavily before changing even one frame that could turn a bad character into a good one and vice-versa. The good developers have a team of internal balance testers that know the game in and out while also considering character pick rates, win rates, tournament results, and other data they deem relevant to game balance. SFIV had a balance patch (to go along with some some shiny DLC most of the time) literally once a year (except 2013) since its release and no other time, and the game is considered one the best balanced games through its iterations. You're just as bad as the people yelling that Juri is garbage or that she is the next SF3 Chun two days after release. Nobody can truly judge how good a character is until you put in the time, learn their strengths and weaknesses, what their matchups are, what options they have available in any given situation, etc. That shit takes time and reacting to every little problem people have with a character every so often won't make balance any more even, the game anymore fun, and you any better.

I simply view how the game should be handled differently I suppose. Like, I absolutely agree that the game shouldn't be changed constantly based on angry forum posts like I myself am prone to making. But I think it's seriously insane to run the balance of your game on a once a year patch schedule. What other major competitive game does that? Game has been out for over 5 months now. And it's obvious that some characters like Ryu or Nash could do with some nerfs. At the same time it's clear some like Zangief or FANG could do with some buff. Why shouldnt these changes happen now instead of in 7 months? Because potentially someone maybe finds out something at some point within those 7 months?

But I really feel like your post and the mindset is simply a very oldschool way of thinking based on fighting games arcade background, where there were nothing called the internet or patches and you simply had to use what you got with any given fighting game release

 

[CountBlack]

I'm exaggerating, but wasn't he regarded as trash in Super Turbo for years?

oh I thought you were talking about SF4

carry on friend

 

[EndcatOmega]

oh I thought you were talking about SF4

carry on friend

I'm going to be honest I straight up forgot he was even in 4.

 

[lucebuce12]

I'm going to be honest I straight up forgot he was even in 4.

I envy you.

 

[Skilletor]

I simply view how the game should be handled differently I suppose. Like, I absolutely agree that the game shouldn't be changed constantly based on angry forum posts like I myself am prone to making. But I think it's seriously insane to run the balance of your game on a once a year patch schedule. What other major competitive game does that? Game has been out for over 5 months now. And it's obvious that some characters like Ryu or Nash could do with some nerfs. At the same time it's clear some like Zangief or FANG could do with some buff. Why shouldnt these changes happen now instead of in 7 months? Because potentially someone maybe finds out something at some point within those 7 months?

But I really feel like your post and the mindset is simply a very oldschool way of thinking based on fighting games arcade background, where there were nothing called the internet or patches and you simply had to use what you got with any given fighting game release

Pretty much every japanese fighting game does this.

 

[EndcatOmega]

Starcraft 1 and 2 also had/have pretty large gaps between balance updates for non-fighting games, though I don't think in 2's case they were yearly.

 

[Asd202]

This generation of players are really spoiled. Don't rely on the developers to fix your shortcomings as a player. You can do plenty against Ryu. Watch some videos, read up on matchups and go into training mode. Listening to crying fans every other week and changing things on a whim are not how fighting games operate. Getting bi-weekly updates to change some frame data for the benefit of a group of internet crybabies who will find something different to get up in arms about when some different piece of frame data makes them angry a few days later is a terrible approach to game balance. This isn't League of Legends where you have 5 out of 150 (or whatever crazy number they're up to) characters paired up in thousands of different combinations going up against another 5 characters in another thousand different combinations. It's one character vs the other. Balance is fine tuned and considered heavily before changing even one frame that could turn a bad character into a good one and vice-versa. The good developers have a team of internal balance testers that know the game in and out while also considering character pick rates, win rates, tournament results, and other data they deem relevant to game balance. SFIV had a balance patch (to go along with some some shiny DLC most of the time) literally once a year (except 2013) since its release and no other time, and the game is considered one the best balanced games through its iterations. You're just as bad as the people yelling that Juri is garbage or that she is the next SF3 Chun two days after release. Nobody can truly judge how good a character is until you put in the time, learn their strengths and weaknesses, what their matchups are, what options they have available in any given situation, etc. That shit takes time and reacting to every little problem people have with a character every so often won't make balance any more even, the game anymore fun, and you any better.

Thank you.

 

[CountBlack]

I'm going to be honest I straight up forgot he was even in 4.

haven't played my deejay tho hue

 

[EndcatOmega]

haven't played my deejay tho hue

Didn't play SF4 after Super released at all, I don't think I played any Deejay!

 

[Trickster]

Pretty much every japanese fighting game does this.

Not do be condescending, but that's why I said major competitive games. I understand that pretty much all fighting games balance their game like that. I just don't see the benefit of it. And I feel like it's got less to do with how to best possible balance the games, and more to do with a design philosophy that stems from the arcades.

Can you really tell me it's for the best that, Ryu, Nash, Zangief, Fang etc. receive no real changes for 7 more months?

 

[Zackat]

I simply view how the game should be handled differently I suppose. Like, I absolutely agree that the game shouldn't be changed constantly based on angry forum posts like I myself am prone to making. But I think it's seriously insane to run the balance of your game on a once a year patch schedule. What other major competitive game does that? Game has been out for over 5 months now. And it's obvious that some characters like Ryu or Nash could do with some nerfs. At the same time it's clear some like Zangief or FANG could do with some buff. Why shouldnt these changes happen now instead of in 7 months? Because potentially someone maybe finds out something at some point within those 7 months?

But I really feel like your post and the mindset is simply a very oldschool way of thinking based on fighting games arcade background, where there were nothing called the internet or patches and you simply had to use what you got with any given fighting game release

Fighting games shouldn't be patched to death or messed with like that. It killed MKX for me, changing how characters play constantly. What's interesting is seeing Rashid and FANG start to get a little more respect as time goes on. Whether it is due to players just being really good (Xian makes FANG look legit good) or them still being figured out is up for debate. I would rather the players figure it out rather than the developers mess things up by making too many changes.

Now if they could do something about people spamming shoryus and playing like crazy, erratic people could we patch that? Because I get so annoyed when I lose to that

Not do be condescending, but that's why I said major competitive games. I understand that pretty much all fighting games balance their game like that. I just don't see the benefit of it. And I feel like it's got less to do with how to best possible balance the games, and more to do with a design philosophy that stems from the arcades.

Oh I see. You think this game should be patched monthly like a MOBA? I would quit. I spend too much time getting muscle memory and other things down for them to change it like that. Messing with combos due to changing frame data, or changing what moves I can or can't punish monthly? No thx.

 

[CrackpotDesert]

I finally downloaded the update. I'll be playing Juri tonight!

Didn't play SF4 after Super released at all, I don't think I played any Deejay!

Good Deejay is a nightmare to fight against.

 

[Skilletor]

Not do be condescending, but that's why I said major competitive games. I understand that pretty much all fighting games balance their game like that. I just don't see the benefit of it. And I feel like it's got less to do with how to best possible balance the games, and more to do with a design philosophy that stems from the arcades.

Can you really tell me it's for the best that, Ryu, Nash, Zangief, Fang etc. receive no real changes for 7 more months?

/shrug

Don't care to argue.

Different strokes.

Oh, and every other fighting game is what I would consider "major competitive games."

 

[molnizzle]

Downloaded KI based on some of the comments in this thread – holy shit this game has amazing tutorials! Teaching me all sorts of lingo that I see posted in this thread but never know what it means. It helps that aside from the combo system the base movement and normals are pretty similar to SF.

Gonna keep practicing these KI tutorials to get better at SFV. lol

 

[Gipsy Danger]

Not do be condescending, but that's why I said major competitive games. I understand that pretty much all fighting games balance their game like that. I just don't see the benefit of it. And I feel like it's got less to do with how to best possible balance the games, and more to do with a design philosophy that stems from the arcades.

Can you really tell me it's for the best that, Ryu, Nash, Zangief, Fang etc. receive no real changes for 7 more months?

I think it's better this way. Fighting game meta's take a long time to develop. We are still discovering what some characters can do and it can all change throughout the year. Besides it's on a yearly schedule so that people don't have to learn new shit before every new major.

I also don't really have a problem with Ryu or Nash other than maybe the jumping lk.

 

[mnz]

Not do be condescending, but that's why I said major competitive games. I understand that pretty much all fighting games balance their game like that. I just don't see the benefit of it. And I feel like it's got less to do with how to best possible balance the games, and more to do with a design philosophy that stems from the arcades.

Fighting games are different to pretty much any other competitive game. These games develop over years, not weeks or months. That is actually a big part of higher level play. Everything has a counter, every top characters have weaknesses, every bottom character has strengths.

Wasn't it pretty recently that people discovered some T. Hawk stuff in ST and he climbed the tier list? Or look at how UMvC3 changed since its release. It's in its third wave of team change now. Without any change to the game itself.
These are the timeframes we're talking about in fighting games.

More frequent patching would destroy much of these deeper strategies within these games.

I'm not even convinced about your examples. FANG and Zangief have been steadily rising in tournament placings and neither Ryu or Nash are as dominant as you make them out to be.

 

[Trickster]

Oh I see. You think this game should be patched monthly like a MOBA? I would quit. I spend too much time getting muscle memory and other things down for them to change it like that. Messing with combos due to changing frame data, or changing what moves I can or can't punish monthly? No thx.

I've never said monthly. Games like Dota 2 receive maybe 2-3 noteworthy patches a year...

 

[Neoxon]

I simply view how the game should be handled differently I suppose. Like, I absolutely agree that the game shouldn't be changed constantly based on angry forum posts like I myself am prone to making. But I think it's seriously insane to run the balance of your game on a once a year patch schedule. What other major competitive game does that? Game has been out for over 5 months now. And it's obvious that some characters like Ryu or Nash could do with some nerfs. At the same time it's clear some like Zangief or FANG could do with some buff. Why shouldnt these changes happen now instead of in 7 months? Because potentially someone maybe finds out something at some point within those 7 months?

But I really feel like your post and the mindset is simply a very oldschool way of thinking based on fighting games arcade background, where there were nothing called the internet or patches and you simply had to use what you got with any given fighting game release

Not do be condescending, but that's why I said major competitive games. I understand that pretty much all fighting games balance their game like that. I just don't see the benefit of it. And I feel like it's got less to do with how to best possible balance the games, and more to do with a design philosophy that stems from the arcades.

Can you really tell me it's for the best that, Ryu, Nash, Zangief, Fang etc. receive no real changes for 7 more months?

The difference here is that Capcom's actually doing a tournament circuit centered around Street Fighter V. Doing anything more than major bug fixes before the Capcom Cup would majorly impact the Capcom Pro Tour. Not to mention, we have yet to see Juri's true potential & Urien has yet to be released. And there's always the potential for one of the lesser-used characters to shut down some of the top-tiers. Combofiend once mentioned that they'd start a philosophy with Street Fighter V to not nerf stronger characters, but rather buff the weaker characters to bring them up to the level of the top-tiers. I honestly agree with this philosophy, & I hope this is applied to the 2017 balance update.

 

[Ketch]

Character power level means so little in this game relative to how much time people spend talking about it.

 

[Steroyd]

I simply view how the game should be handled differently I suppose. Like, I absolutely agree that the game shouldn't be changed constantly based on angry forum posts like I myself am prone to making. But I think it's seriously insane to run the balance of your game on a once a year patch schedule. What other major competitive game does that? Game has been out for over 5 months now. And it's obvious that some characters like Ryu or Nash could do with some nerfs. At the same time it's clear some like Zangief or FANG could do with some buff. Why shouldnt these changes happen now instead of in 7 months? Because potentially someone maybe finds out something at some point within those 7 months?

But I really feel like your post and the mindset is simply a very oldschool way of thinking based on fighting games arcade background, where there were nothing called the internet or patches and you simply had to use what you got with any given fighting game release

Lol what, what does Nash need nerfing? He has slow start ups on his moves, so he's prone to rushdown characters, it's why you see the best Nash player in the world using hit and run tactics and constantly looking to use his v skill and v trigger because he knows he's fucked when cornered, with no resources.

Only complaint I have about Ryu is his anti air jab, but that's not really something that makes him fundamentally broken, granted it sucks that Fang and Zangief aren't going to be more viable until a couple of months down the line but Capcom also have their eye on the competitive scene as well and the roster as is, is pretty well balance as per the title of this OT.

 

[sixteen-bit]

Downloaded KI based on some of the comments in this thread – holy shit this game has amazing tutorials! Teaching me all sorts of lingo that I see posted in this thread but never know what it means. It helps that aside from the combo system the base movement and normals are pretty similar to SF.

Gonna keep practicing these KI tutorials to get better at SFV. lol

lol Capcom should be ashamed

 

[crap monkey]

Character power level means so little in this game relative to how much time people spend talking about it.

Fighting Game Discussion 101

 

[Neoxon]

Another week, another Shit-on-Street-Fighter-V thread in Gaming Discussion.

 

[remz]

Another week, another Shit-on-Street-Fighter-V thread in Gaming Discussion.

Biggest punching bag among people that don't actually play fighters

 

[RapidCancel]

This generation of players are really spoiled. Don't rely on the developers to fix your shortcomings as a player. You can do plenty against Ryu. Watch some videos, read up on matchups and go into training mode. Listening to crying fans every other week and changing things on a whim are not how fighting games operate. Getting bi-weekly updates to change some frame data for the benefit of a group of internet crybabies who will find something different to get up in arms about when some different piece of frame data makes them angry a few days later is a terrible approach to game balance. This isn't League of Legends where you have 5 out of 150 (or whatever crazy number they're up to) characters paired up in thousands of different combinations going up against another 5 characters in another thousand different combinations. It's one character vs the other. Balance is fine tuned and considered heavily before changing even one frame that could turn a bad character into a good one and vice-versa. The good developers have a team of internal balance testers that know the game in and out while also considering character pick rates, win rates, tournament results, and other data they deem relevant to game balance. SFIV had a balance patch (to go along with some some shiny DLC most of the time) literally once a year (except 2013) since its release and no other time, and the game is considered one the best balanced games through its iterations. You're just as bad as the people yelling that Juri is garbage or that she is the next SF3 Chun two days after release. Nobody can truly judge how good a character is until you put in the time, learn their strengths and weaknesses, what their matchups are, what options they have available in any given situation, etc. That shit takes time and reacting to every little problem people have with a character every so often won't make balance any more even, the game anymore fun, and you any better.

sogood.gif

People need to stop bitching about a character and learn that it's the person controlling the character that's beating your ass. Find new ways around dealing with somebody and try different approaches if something isn't working out for you. But I guess that's too tough, so nerf everybody!

 

[Gipsy Danger]

Another week, another Shit-on-Street-Fighter-V thread in Gaming Discussion.

But there's already been one this week!

 

[FireSol]

Another week, another Shit-on-Street-Fighter-V thread in Gaming Discussion.

Well, there no strong defence force behind SFV, compared to some other projects. Most ppl who can defend the game have better thing to do, like play the game itself and become better.

 

[TheSpoiler]

sogood.gif

People need to stop bitching about a character and learn that it's the person controlling the character that's beating your ass. Find new ways around dealing with somebody and try different approaches if something isn't working out for you. But I guess that's too tough, so nerf everybody!

Japan was so good about this. They'd just keep learning the characters. Sure, you'd have discussions about who's best and what's broken, but the constant drooling over tier lists didn't matter. That's probably why they ended up being better than us across the damn board, and it's only now that we are catching up.

 

[Secret Character]

Fighting games are different to pretty much any other competitive game. These games develop over years, not weeks or months. That is actually a big part of higher level play. Everything has a counter, every top characters have weaknesses, every bottom character has strengths.

Wasn't it pretty recently that people discovered some T. Hawk stuff in ST and he climbed the tier list? Or look at how UMvC3 changed since its release. It's in its third wave of team change now. Without any change to the game itself.
These are the timeframes we're talking about in fighting games.

More frequent patching would destroy much of these deeper strategies within these games.

I'm not even convinced about your examples. FANG and Zangief have been steadily rising in tournament placings and neither Ryu or Nash are as dominant as you make them out to be.

Everything about this post is correct. Time does crazy things to certain games.

In the ST example, Hawk (and O.Hawk) have been climbing the ST tier lists for the last 5 years because of how the game has evolved. I remember when things for O.Ken were discovered and it became an incredibly viable character to pick. ST is a lot more than Claw, O.Sagat, and Ryu now and it's a better game because players have been putting in time to learn the other characters.

UMvC3 used to be dominated by Wesker and Wolverine. How many of those characters did you see at Top 8 this year at Evo? Heck, you had a team with MODOK and Sentinel (who were once considered some of the worst in the game) making really high ranks.

SFV will evolve and things that were considered the best or the worst will change. There were no Ryus in Top 8 at Evo. FANG, while probably the least used character, looks way more interesting than at launch. Dictator, who was "really good" at launch is now considered trash by just about everybody. Gief is moving up and Necali is moving (slightly) down. I'm glad they aren't patching any time soon, as theres so much more to learn until then.

 

[Skilletor]

Everything about this post is correct. Time does crazy things to certain games.

In the ST example, Hawk (and O.Hawk) have been climbing the ST tier lists for the last 5 years because of how the game has evolved. I remember when things for O.Ken were discovered and it became an incredibly viable character to pick. ST is a lot more than Claw, O.Sagat, and Ryu now and it's a better game because players have been putting in time to learn the other characters.

UMvC3 used to be dominated by Wesker and Wolverine. How many of those characters did you see at Top 8 this year at Evo? Heck, you had a team with MODOK and Sentinel (who were once considered some of the worst in the game) making really high ranks.

SFV will evolve and things that were considered the best or the worst will change. There were no Ryus in Top 8 at Evo. FANG, while probably the least used character, looks way more interesting than at launch. Dictator, who was "really good" at launch is now considered trash by just about everybody. Gief is moving up and Necali is moving (slightly) down. I'm glad they aren't patching any time soon, as theres so much more to learn until then.

Yup, the discovery is the best part, imo. Patching and changing characters destroys my favorite thing in fighting games.