Zombegoast
Member
Fucking Negative Edge keeps making me do hooligan instead of spiral arrow after a st.hp. they really need an option to turn that off.
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Street Fighter V |OTV| BUFF MY MAIN & NERF THE CHARACTER I JUST LOST TO
- Thread starter Garrett Hawke
- Start date
I agree. I mean we had people writing off some DLC characters after a day lmao. Smug and Alucard are also starting to get good with Balrog and showing what he can do too. Nobody puts enough time into these characters so all they see are the weaknesses at first then go back to their main. It's understandable to not want to learn a new character when the others have been out for months but this doesn't make them bad.
GuileBootCamp
Member
SFV DLC Character Cycle:
New DLC character is released -> People declare character "seems really strong" -> Players brazenly jump on Ranked with the new DLC character and lose huge amounts of points to characters that have been getting played since the betas. Mains from previous games dislike that the new incarnation doesn't play the same as the previous version -> New DLC character is declared worthless the day after release and all hope is poured into the next character -> People return to their old main from the betas until next character is released -> New DLC character is released
New DLC character is released -> People declare character "seems really strong" -> Players brazenly jump on Ranked with the new DLC character and lose huge amounts of points to characters that have been getting played since the betas. Mains from previous games dislike that the new incarnation doesn't play the same as the previous version -> New DLC character is declared worthless the day after release and all hope is poured into the next character -> People return to their old main from the betas until next character is released -> New DLC character is released
You forgot "People are disappointed in new rendition of old theme"
The Lone Dragon
Member
Also forgot the final stage of the cycle:
-> Patient players that stuck with character finally learn how to use them and eliminate Daigo from a premier event
lucebuce12
Member
Yup, all 2 of them.The Guile mains in this thread seem pretty happy.
GuileBootCamp
Member
Troubled Bat
Member
Gonna' have to work for that color 6 Urien.
https://twitter.com/Saunic/status/777429303898181632?lang=fr
Capcom Cup will be glorious ah ah ah.
Capcom Cup will be glorious ah ah ah.
Heeh, I'm still there you military bastard !
GuileBootCamp
Member
Hey, there's definitely three of us in here.
Troubled Bat
Member
lucebuce12
Member
GuileBootCamp
Member
Urien is gonna wreak havoc on the DLC cycle:
Urien Day 1: Da GAWD has returned to save us from low tier DLC characters. 3rd Strike y'all.
Urien Day 2: He's too slow, his AAs suck, he's too meter dependent, why does his damage scale so much, Aegis Reflector is too small, his V-Skill is too slow to really be practical in a game as offense-oriented as this, he's not the same character anymore without his unblockables, I just can't play him without his old HP orb, his juggles were so much better in 3rd Strike, why do we have to pay for the banana hammock, why doesn't he clang anymore when he blocks, why isn't his hair blonde, he should have come with his stage, his voice sucks I'm switching it to Japanese, they shoulda called him Urine, I'm going back to Ryu, when's season 2?
Urien Day 3: There's no more DLC characters announced and Capcom Cup is months away. What are we supposed to do now? How do we go on?
Urien Day 1: Da GAWD has returned to save us from low tier DLC characters. 3rd Strike y'all.
Urien Day 2: He's too slow, his AAs suck, he's too meter dependent, why does his damage scale so much, Aegis Reflector is too small, his V-Skill is too slow to really be practical in a game as offense-oriented as this, he's not the same character anymore without his unblockables, I just can't play him without his old HP orb, his juggles were so much better in 3rd Strike, why do we have to pay for the banana hammock, why doesn't he clang anymore when he blocks, why isn't his hair blonde, he should have come with his stage, his voice sucks I'm switching it to Japanese, they shoulda called him Urine, I'm going back to Ryu, when's season 2?
Urien Day 3: There's no more DLC characters announced and Capcom Cup is months away. What are we supposed to do now? How do we go on?
Easy. Everyone goes back to Ryu and Chun and Nash and Ken, the natural order is restored.
my favorite part of the cycle
lol @ this shimmy: https://youtu.be/uaGhr4U6lfo?t=1m4s
Ah ah had the exact same experience yesterday. Had a real "there's no place like home" moment.
I'd say at least 4.
NCR Redslayer
NeoGAF's Vegeta
Ok some boy got stopped hard by my nash. Sucker said nash isnt shoto, pfft.
So sick, jeez
TheSpoiler
Member
SALT.
SolarPowered
Member
I saw quite a few thoughtful posts on Guile's gameplay earlier in the thread (was that you?) really getting into the nitty gritty of the character. I felt Guile was pretty strong at release, but people were ridiculously salty that Guile isn't the perfect wall with meterless reversals and even better projectiles. Frankly he is the only DLC character besides Balrog (to a lesser degree) that felt good enough to me at release. Any reckless buffs could make him even more unbearable to fight than Ryu. He is definitely not a Zangief case.The Guile mains in this thread seem pretty happy.
There are a lot more decent characters than that. Unfortunately nearly all are launch roster characters. I doubt Guile and Alex are going to change that and they've been out for months now.
Alex turning out ugly spared me from this fate. Still a double edged sword because everyone gotta live with the dumpster fire default, though.
I don't think the problem with DLC chars is strictly related to how decent they are. With CPT going on, most prominent players don't have enough strong of a reason to switch if the char is not openly better (Problem X dropping Bison) or simply they didn't have a clear main in the launch roster (ISDD).
In the end it's pros that move the chars forward and make them viable and find game plans for them. Like, Mika was this super crazy char early game and turns out the two best Mikas play really lame (Fuudo and Luffy). I'm looking forward to seeing some pro give a DLC char the chance in the next CPT season.
I think there's a design philosophy at play with the DLC characters that simply wasn't in place for some of the initial cast. Every character has strengths, but are counter-balanced by intended weaknesses to prevent them from being OP.
For example: Balrog has a bad wake-up game to compensate for his damage and corner carry, but Ken gets the same basic package AND an invincible meterless reversal.
I think it's true to some extent. We're seeing a lot of fluctuation in results between big tournaments.
The only really consistent player is Infiltration.
Yeah, I understand that, but I'm not discussing balance. I'm discussing why these chars are unexplored for the biggest part. Like Gief has bigger holes than Rog, but he's been super explored. Ken himself was supposed to be a low tier character when the game came out. What happened? People explored the character (and 8f, lol.
.TheSpoiler
Member
I don't really see what is random in the results we see so far. The Pro Tour standing is made of the usual suspects, and if anything it means the players are really close in skill and no character is way beyond the cast to carry anyone.
As usual, we pretty much only hear the complaints of players who don't do as well as in SFIV. There were many upsets in many tournaments in SFIV as well in term of Top players drowning in pools.
As usual, we pretty much only hear the complaints of players who don't do as well as in SFIV. There were many upsets in many tournaments in SFIV as well in term of Top players drowning in pools.
The thread has some good examples
Something like that was pretty damn rare in SF4. Not saying the game is a coin flip and it's obviously working itself out over the whole year.
KidA Seven
Member
Last year Daigo went 1-2 at TGS. It's Japan. Japanese tournaments are always like this. You're put in a ft2 against strong players and you can get upset early on. BTW, Jiyuna said before the tournament started that Daigo had a fever which caused him to cancel beastv and some photoshoot.
If you look at the results, it's as consistent as USF4.
If you guys want even more consistent results, make the tournaments ft3 all the way. I actually wanted that for Ultra, but it's persisted well into the SFV season.
Also, Daigo shows severe knowledge gaps in some match-ups. Alucard bodied him with rog because daigo wasn't punishing anything. He lost to an alex because, I hear, he didn't punish things that were like - 5.
Zombegoast
Member
Guile is diffidently weak with only two charge special and V-Skill. The biggest issue is that fireballs (Except for Nash) Is far weaker in this game and that there are a lot of moves that can go through them.
I feel like Alex is one of Guile's worse match up because he can put him in the corner and have tools like Cr.mp, Jab AA, Stun Gun Headbutt and Stomp.
What's keeping Guile from being worse than Zangief is the lack of Green Hand.
CountBlack
Member
The Guile mains in this thread seem pretty happy.
Yea, Guile ended up being a really solid defensive character which is the opposite of how people/myself played him the first month he came out lol.
lol @ thinking Guile is weak because he's only got two specials.
sixteen-bit
Member
I appreciate a defensive guile
ScraftyDevil
Banned
lol @ the Guile/Alex matchup being in Alex's favour.
Sure, he has great pressure once he gets in, but getting in is stupidly hard. Even then, Guile has access to an invincible reversal so if he has even one bar then Alex has to be super careful lest he eat an EX Flash Kick and get sent back to square one
AA jab is kind of meaningless too since Guile can cover his jump-ins with Sonic Boom/Sonic Cross. Both stomp and Head Crush can get stuffed on-reaction by Flash Kick and crHP as well, so against a smart Guile who knows the matchup you're not gonna be getting very many off unless you make hard reads.
I'm not saying the matchup's impossible for Alex; far from it. But saying that's it's one of Guile's worst matchups is pure fallacy imo, especially when there are better pressure characters and better grapplers who give Guile an even harder time.
Sure, he has great pressure once he gets in, but getting in is stupidly hard. Even then, Guile has access to an invincible reversal so if he has even one bar then Alex has to be super careful lest he eat an EX Flash Kick and get sent back to square one
AA jab is kind of meaningless too since Guile can cover his jump-ins with Sonic Boom/Sonic Cross. Both stomp and Head Crush can get stuffed on-reaction by Flash Kick and crHP as well, so against a smart Guile who knows the matchup you're not gonna be getting very many off unless you make hard reads.
I'm not saying the matchup's impossible for Alex; far from it. But saying that's it's one of Guile's worst matchups is pure fallacy imo, especially when there are better pressure characters and better grapplers who give Guile an even harder time.
These were pretty much my thoughts, but I haven't fought enough Alex to say.
CrackpotDesert
Banned
In 3S he felt like he was a rushdown/trap character. The projectiles would knock you out of the air for some painful headbutting/tackling and blocking a reflector would pin you in the corner for some overhead/low goodness. Even getting hit by the reflector just allows him to keep beating on you with normals.
No it wasn't. Mago won SEAM a few weeks before CEO and was nowhere near top 8. Daigo won NCR and Stunfest and Momochi was winning or placing high at most events for Ultra in 2015 and they all lost before top 8 CEO.
Then EVO rolls around and Momochi wins that, and they all took off the 2nd half of the year for the most part because they already qualified for Capcom Cup.
Poongko is also a good case of not being consistent as a player. He won Cannes Winter Clash in Feb 2015, and didn't sniff a win or a high placing until near the end of the year at Capcom Pro Tour Asian Finals only because Infiltration decided to drop out at the last minute to do a showing for the PS4 Korean conference and SFV.
Then he got 4th at Capcom Cup.
But that doesn't happen if Infiltration decided to attend CPTAsia finals.
Luffy just mad that he can't bully the EU region anymore.
ScraftyDevil
Banned
He's a pretty unique character, really.
He can play keepaway to a degree, but in actuality his projectiles are tools to frustrate the opponent by stuffing their jump-ins and dashes to try and goad them into coming to you so you can start the train.
From then on, he's a combo machine. Urien wants to stay in your face for as long as he can, and because his juggle potential is so high he wants to land his crHP as soon as he can.
Though Aegis can reflect projectiles, its main use is as a mixup/combo extending device depending on how you use it.
Here's a video of Tokido running a train on Justin Wong as Urien; should give you a decent idea of how he's meant to be played.
https://youtu.be/q1r82kmXSPo
There's a difference in not making it to top 8 and drowning in pools. The latter was very rare for a pro player in 4.
edit: And Mago placed 5th at CEO after winning SEAM.
stn
Member
Just a guess based on what I've watched: he's hybrid. A mix of zoning and setting up throws, also heavy use of his v-skill to get in and also build trigger for aegis setups.
GuileBootCamp
Member
Some of that was me, Durden77 and xabi contributed a lot too.
Sonic Cross + backfist will shut down most of the anti-zoning V-Skills in the game and give Guile the advantage. Guile's V-Skill is anti-anti-zoning (but can also just be plain ol' anti-zoning too).
Alex does generally beat a cornered Guile, but that's probably the only time he's at an advantage in the matchup. If Guile has Alex cornered, it's even harder for Alex to deal with, and Guile easily wins in the neutral game on top of it.
He's more-or-less a rushdown character with insane trap-based mix-ups via the Aegis Reflector (which most people used as their Super of choice in 3S, hence why it's Urien's V-Trigger in SFV). That's how I played him, at least.