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[Zombegoast]

Because other people brought it up. Because it's similar to the situation that started this conversation.

You have always been able to mash dp through block strings. The only thing that makes it easier in SF4 and 5 compared to other games is a far more generous input buffer and reversal window.

DPing through booms with Cammy isn't new. You keep making these silly claims as if these things are exclusive to SF5 and they're not.

When did I say this was new? I mention SF2 two times already having DP being invincible throughout the entire move. The reversal window in 4 was already generous enough but the problem here at V takes it too far by adding more Iframes to the moves. Because of this it makes EX DP useless outside of 1 or 2 combo. I said it in the past and the Iframes on Non EX DP needs to be more like it's previous installment.

The way it's right now removes the defensive/offensive playstyle because how easy it is to react with fireballs in this game.

 

[lucebuce12]

I can't believe the secret to countering Guile's sonic boom zoning is actually jumping at him.

Jump fighter 5 indeed.

 

[Neoxon]

Arcade is coming, you guys.

I can feel it.

I can see Capcom making a big deal out of it this November (hopefully with the Nostalgic Costumes that I intentionally set aside cash for).

Either way, it got leaked already, so we know it's coming.

 

[Skilletor]

When did I say this was new? I mention SF2 two times already having DP being invincible throughout the entire move. The reversal window in 4 was already generous enough but the problem here at V takes it too far by adding more Iframes to the moves. Because of this it makes EX DP useless outside of 1 or 2 combo. I said it in the past and the Iframes on Non EX DP needs to be more like it's previous installment.

The way it's right now removes the defensive/offensive playstyle because how easy it is to react with fireballs in this game.

EX DP is useless because it pretty much goes straight up.

Her DP has 1 frame more of invincibility on lk version, and two more on mk/hk. I don't think that's so significant when reacting to fireballs (when compared to SF4). Especially taking into account the increased input delay.

EX has a whopping 10 more frames of invincibility, lol.

 

[Kashiwaba]

I can't believe the secret to countering Guile's sonic boom zoning is actually jumping at him.

Jump fighter 5 indeed.

Somersault

 

[lucebuce12]

Somersault

Not as a reaction, As a (successful) read.

 

[Skilletor]

Not as a reaction, As a (successful) read.

C.hp
s.mk

 

[Edzi]

Not as a reaction, As a (successful) read.

You can definitely punish a jumped fireball on reaction with flash kick, it just has to be spaced properly.

 

[lucebuce12]

C.hp
s.mk

I must be playing some real shit Guiles then

Though I think I might also not be conveying quite what I mean here.

I mean to say that I managed to jump in and hit them right as they were recovering from the boom. It still has some recovery after all.

EDIT: Obviously I don't mean from a space where he can recover in time and AA me, I mean from very close which is the distance I like to stay against a Guile.

 

[Skilletor]

I must be playing some real shit Guiles then

Though I think I might also not be conveying quite what I mean here.

I mean to say that I managed to jump in and hit them right as they were recovering from the boom. It still has some recovery after all.

EDIT: Obviously I don't mean from a space where he can recover in time and AA me, I mean from very close which is the distance I like to stay against a Guile.

If you're playing Guiles that are throwing booms from a distance where you can constantly jump over them and punish, then yeah, they're pretty bad.

 

[JayEH]

Du was stuffing all jump ins yesterday.

 

[lucebuce12]

Plus it helps that FANG's jump is very floaty and his j.hp has incredible range.

EDIT: Btw, I was thinking of ways I would buff FANG and a weird one that came to me to make his V-Trigger a little better, something like "While V-Trigger is active and the enemy is poisoned, the enemy's stun gauge reduces at 70% (maybe 60?) usual rate".

 

[Mediking]

Nash is so much fun!!! WOW!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Skilletor]

Plus it helps that FANG's jump is very floaty and his j.hp has incredible range.

EDIT: Btw, I was thinking of ways I would buff FANG and a weird one that came to me to make his V-Trigger a little better, something like "While V-Trigger is active and the enemy is poisoned, the enemy's stun gauge reduces at 70% (maybe 60?) usual rate".

That's actually a cool idea. You could make the stun bar purple to show it's affected as well.

 

[Whales]

Plus it helps that FANG's jump is very floaty and his j.hp has incredible range.

EDIT: Btw, I was thinking of ways I would buff FANG and a weird one that came to me to make his V-Trigger a little better, something like "While V-Trigger is active and the enemy is poisoned, the enemy's stun gauge reduces at 70% (maybe 60?) usual rate".

the thing with fang is that his damage just sucks. His buttons are all good, hes got good AAs, frametraps... the damage tho? it's ass

buff his damage
your idea is also pretty cool

idk how to make his V-skill useful tho.. Maybe make it faster or give it a hitbox... or make the V-Skill poison stack with other poisons?

 

[Edzi]

the thing with fang is that his damage just sucks. His buttons are all good, hes got good AAs, frametraps... the damage tho? it's ass

buff his damage
you ridea is also pretty cool

idk how to make his V-skill useful tho.. Maybe make it faster or give it a hitbox... or make the V-Skill poison stack with other poisons?

I've mentioned all this before months ago, but all you have to do is give his v-skill more properties. If damage is his main problem, make him do more damage when they're poisoned. As it is, his poison effect is a non factor.

 

[Kashiwaba]

If you're playing Guiles that are throwing booms from a distance where you can constantly jump over them and punish, then yeah, they're pretty bad.

This I played some really amazing guiles on SFV discord server with them i never got the chance to even get close to punish their sonic boom some players can form an almost impenetrable wall with Guile.

 

[TheSpoiler]

Lost two sets in a row with a rusty Nash.

Won three in a row with a shitty Urien.

I'm starting to think I'll just have to play Urien for the rest of my life. Like, I'm fine with it, but wew lad all that work I put into my boy Nash tho...

 

[spazchicken]

Lost two sets in a row with a rusty Nash.

Won three in a row with a shitty Urien.

I'm starting to think I'll just have to play Urien for the rest of my life. Like, I'm fine with it, but wew lad all that work I put into my boy Nash tho...

No idea how that's possible. "Nash is top tier" and is the "easiest character in the game" to play with. He also has "all the tools" and "no weaknesses".

Are you sure your PS4/PC was turned on?

 

[JayEH]

who has said any of that? (besides him being top tier)

 

[remz]

No idea how that's possible. "Nash is top tier" and is the "easiest character in the game" to play with. He also has "all the tools" and "no weaknesses".

Are you sure your PS4/PC was turned on?

Salty Nash main detected.

Switching to chun from juri was really eye opening from a character strength perspective. chun just does so much more damage. i feel they're similar characters but chun is just better. only thing i miss from juri is her nice fast jump and her shiny bodysuit

 

[Skilletor]

No idea how that's possible. "Nash is top tier" and is the "easiest character in the game" to play with. He also has "all the tools" and "no weaknesses".

Are you sure your PS4/PC was turned on?

I've never heard anybody say this about Charlie. Other than being told tier.

 

[Shadoken]

Salty Nash main detected.

Switching to chun from juri was really eye opening from a character strength perspective. chun just does so much more damage. i feel they're similar characters but chun is just better. only thing i miss from juri is her nice fast jump and her shiny bodysuit

Thats because Chun literally is one of those "Good" at everything character. Apart from Her and maaybe Ryu , every other Top tier have pretty clear weaknesses.

 

[DoubleTake]

I have no idea how to fight Alex as Urien. Any tips?

 

[Whales]

I mean, nash is top tier and not hard to play and hes got a fuckton of tools to work with lol

that would be like a ryu main getting upset at people saying hes top3

 

[JayEH]

all the tools except a 3f jab, invincible reversal, and solid anti air. there's a reason people were surprised that infiltration was dominating with him early on. he's a good character in the right hands but i wouldn't say he's easy to play.

 

[Durden77]

So does the Halloween stuff drop tomorrow?

 

[JayEH]

So does the Halloween stuff drop tomorrow?

yes after maintenance presumably.

 

[spazchicken]

who has said any of that? (besides him being top tier)

I've never heard anybody say this about Charlie. Other than being told tier.

All that has been said in this thread before. Mike Ross even said Nash has no weaknesses when L.I Joe was on CC.

 

[Mr. X]

I would say Nash suffers under pressure but he just needs to get a v-reversal or trigger.

I hate him so much. I hate fighting him as Chun, it's so difficult. It's more managable with Urien. You just get stuck blocking his bullshit normals and then it's back to neutral. If you get in on him, you need to be wary of v-reversal giving him the stage back.

 

[spazchicken]

I would say Nash suffers under pressure but he just needs to get a v-reversal or trigger.

I hate him so much. I hate fighting him as Chun, it's so difficult. It's more managable with Urien. You just get stuck blocking his bullshit normals and then it's back to neutral. If you get in on him, you need to be wary of v-reversal giving him the stage back.

That's so strange because I have a much easier time against Urien than Chun.

 

[NCR Redslayer]

Ever since yesterday, I've been having nothing but defensive players as my oppenents. They weren't impossible to beat but I'll take them over any rashid these days. Laura's wheel is only so good on hit...

So does the Halloween stuff drop tomorrow?

Time to buy undertaker nash.

 

[Producer]

Thats because Chun literally is one of those "Good" at everything character. Apart from Her and maaybe Ryu , every other Top tier have pretty clear weaknesses.

Her jump sucks. Free on wakeup without meter. Thats about it

 

[Vice]

I have no idea how to fight Alex as Urien. Any tips?

From matches I've seen against the two, Urien's range on his normals their speed trump Alex's.

His long range on his throw lets you very effectively shimmy Alex. The throw will also beat every wakeup option aside from jump and super. With jump you may be able to anti-air afterward depending on screen position.

Zoning can be somewhat effective, especially once trigger is there and you can place the anti-air reflector to ward off jump ins.

Proper spacing on tackles can be hard for an Alex to deal with but they put you in range for command grab and can be armored through.

In terms of footsies staying right out side of his crouching mp range so that you can punish it with yours is a good place to be. Your standing forrward heavy kick is also very useful and outspeeds Alex's

 

[JayEH]

All that has been said in this thread before. Mike Ross even said Nash has no weaknesses when L.I Joe was on CC.

I wouldn't say Mike Ross is an authority on this game.

 

[Edzi]

I wouldn't say Mike Ross is an authority on this game.

Better than gootecks though.

 

[Omnistalgic]

I would say Nash suffers under pressure but he just needs to get a v-reversal or trigger.

I hate him so much. I hate fighting him as Chun, it's so difficult. It's more managable with Urien. You just get stuck blocking his bullshit normals and then it's back to neutral. If you get in on him, you need to be wary of v-reversal giving him the stage back.

Yea Nash normals basically allows him to not play footsies or have a really strong ground game.

He basically attacks attacks attacks with things that are plus or neutral on block, dash away and try again, or use one of his escape options. I like his playstyle its unique, but his normals are a bit too good. Kinda don't want anyone to be nerfed though, no one feels unbearably OP like SF4 Sagat.

 

[spazchicken]

I wouldn't say Mike Ross is an authority on this game.

Neither is anyone else in this thread/forum but people still say stuff.

How did Cammy players fare when she got nerffed? Was there a legit cause for it? Why did it happen?

 

[Vice]

I wouldn't say Mike Ross is an authority on this game.

His opions are very informed. While he may not have been a hevay hitter for the entirety of SFIV a lot of his analysis of games and the metagame is very valid. Nash is a strong character and the lack of certain tools doesn't equal a weakness if they have other tools or attributes that cover those up very well.

 

[DoubleTake]

From matches I've seen against the two, Urien's range on his normals their speed trump Alex's.

His long range on his throw lets you very effectively shimmy Alex. The throw will also beat every wakeup option aside from jump and super. With jump you may be able to anti-air afterward depending on screen position.

Zoning can be somewhat effective, especially once trigger is there and you can place the anti-air reflector to ward off jump ins.

Proper spacing on tackles can be hard for an Alex to deal with but they put you in range for command grab and can be armored through.

In terms of footsies staying right out side of his crouching mp range so that you can punish it with yours is a good place to be. Your standing forrward heavy kick is also very useful and outspeeds Alex's

Thanks for the advice. Yea I find it really hard to play such a slow game because of the punishable shoulders. I know Urien has good footsies but getting in on Alex and opening him up is the problem. If I do get in, one poorly spaced headbutt or shoulder means he's all over me. So I choose to sit back most of the time, which lets them get in rhythm to maul me.

In general I'm sorta garbage against guess the command throw characters though, so I might just need to git gud.

 

[Skilletor]

Neither is anyone else in this thread/forum but people still say stuff.

How did Cammy players fare when she got nerffed? Was there a legit cause for it? Why did it happen?

When was Cammy nerfed?

 

[NCR Redslayer]

When was Cammy nerfed?

Maybe he's talking about the bug fixes?

 

[JayEH]

Neither is anyone else in this thread/forum but people still say stuff.

How did Cammy players fare when she got nerffed? Was there a legit cause for it? Why did it happen?

first i heard of cammy getting nerfed.

 

[ThatCrazyGuy]

I would say Nash suffers under pressure but he just needs to get a v-reversal or trigger.

I hate him so much. I hate fighting him as Chun, it's so difficult. It's more managable with Urien. You just get stuck blocking his bullshit normals and then it's back to neutral. If you get in on him, you need to be wary of v-reversal giving him the stage back.

That's how everybody feels against Chun......

 

[DR2K]

Neither is anyone else in this thread/forum but people still say stuff.

How did Cammy players fare when she got nerffed? Was there a legit cause for it? Why did it happen?

She actually did get nerfed in the sense that her hologin throw was made less useful. As it could catch people as they're crouching. Can't have that, even though it's not a foreign property for that move, it's almost an overhead.

 

[lucebuce12]

That's actually a cool idea. You could make the stun bar purple to show it's affected as well.

the thing with fang is that his damage just sucks. His buttons are all good, hes got good AAs, frametraps... the damage tho? it's ass

buff his damage
your idea is also pretty cool

idk how to make his V-skill useful tho.. Maybe make it faster or give it a hitbox... or make the V-Skill poison stack with other poisons?

The more and more I play with FANG, the more I realize that damage isn't necessarily his primary issue.

He's actually a surprisingly well rounded character and simply by virtue of poison being what it is, poison can't be TOO damaging.

It's just that in the grand scheme of things, both his V-Skill and V-Trigger are not that good. His V-Trigger is fantastic when you have the opponent in the corner and are pressuring them constantly so they're not only losing health but not even regenerating the white health which is where that stun idea of mine came from. It would buff his offensive ability even further but in matchups where he needs to be defensive or zoning, it won't really help which is fine IMO. His V-skill is ... ok I guess, if the poison was better then the V-skill would also be better. I guess shaving a frame or 2 off the recovery would be nice. It's a blob that's going to poison you if you touch it and there's already 2 projectiles on screen and a trap in front of you, the V-skill again just by the character's nature can't be too powerful.

I would not be surprised at all if they just buffed the poison by 1, maybe 2 dmg/sec. But doing that exclusively for the V-Trigger or something just feels.... lazy.

FANG is a surprisingly versatile character who can switch between offensive, defensive and zoning in a second. He's inherently a weird and technical character and a victory with him SHOULD be an uphill battle in some matchups IMO but not by the margin that it is now.

EDIT: I honestly gotta give props to the Capcom balancing team for actually NOT making the character too strong since that's something he could easily be.

 

[ShadowKhaN]

anybody want to play?

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

yes after maintenance presumably.

I want it now though >_>

 

[CD'S BAR]

The more and more I play with FANG, the more I realize that damage isn't necessarily his primary issue.

He's actually a surprisingly well rounded character and simply by virtue of poison being what it is, poison can't be TOO damaging.

It's just that in the grand scheme of things, both his V-Skill and V-Trigger are not that good. His V-Trigger is fantastic when you have the opponent in the corner and are pressuring them constantly so they're not only losing health but not even regenerating the white health which is where that stun idea of mine came from. It would buff his offensive ability even further but in matchups where he needs to be defensive or zoning, it won't really help which is fine IMO. His V-skill is ... ok I guess, if the poison was better then the V-skill would also be better. I guess shaving a frame or 2 off the recovery would be nice. It's a blob that's going to poison you if you touch it and there's already 2 projectiles on screen and a trap in front of you, the V-skill again just by the character's nature can't be too powerful.

I would not be surprised at all if they just buffed the poison by 1, maybe 2 dmg/sec. But doing that exclusively for the V-Trigger or something just feels.... lazy.

FANG is a surprisingly versatile character who can switch between offensive, defensive and zoning in a second. He's inherently a weird and technical character and a victory with him SHOULD be an uphill battle in some matchups IMO but not by the margin that it is now.

EDIT: I honestly gotta give props to the Capcom balancing team for actually NOT making the character too strong since that's something he could easily be.

Haven't played him much but I think they could keep poison damage the same but make it so you can KO with poison.

 

[lucebuce12]

Haven't played him much but I think they could keep poison damage the same but make it so you can KO with poison.

That would be broken as all hell. He already has an invincble CA and an instant overhead, closing out rounds isn't an issue for him.