Support NeoGAF

[tintin1029]

Edit: I think putting Nash so high up is kinda reactionary.Also, Necalli is higher tier than cammy, come on. Rashid is also way too high.



Well that's not counting ps4. I've been a part of dieing fight game communities before, and SFV isn't that, lol. I would sure like those daily challenges tho... and rage quit punish for fuck's sake.
But honestly my biggest problem with the game is user side right now. Too many people just play the same 5 or 6 characters. Honestly, everytime I run into a Vega or a Dhalsim, I want to take a picture. It's like I ran into an endangered animal.

You say that, but I ran into a Zangief player last night, and he beat me.

To be fair, I was a super rusty Mika.

it's cool to see people figuring out rashid and fang. I feel like it won't be too much longer before they will get a win. Especially Xian's FANG.

I think I might pick up Rashid for a bit. I am just kinda floating around in Silver with my Laura, and I already see the huge room for improvement. But Rashid seems to be getting a little better every tournament.

Rashid's a character where every time I play him, I'm having the time of my life he's just so fun to play. But I just never considered maining him for some reason.

Mika's taking all my time.

 

[kirblar]

LI Joe and Infiltration both won events with Nash soon after the game released. This isn't reactionary, the character just really is that good. People just kept making excuses.

 

[tintin1029]

I honestly don't know if I'd rather have a bunch of Nash's in a top 8, or a bunch of Chun's in a top 8 at this point.

If we don't get something new soon, these tourneys are gonna get boring fast.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Edit: I think putting Nash so high up is kinda reactionary.Also, Necalli is higher tier than cammy, come on. Rashid is also way too high.

I don't think it is. Nash is really showing that all the weaknesses people rattle off aren't really weaknesses, and his strengths are getting better. His anti airs are better than people think and he doesn't need invincible reversals to escape pressure. He has a ton of tools and they're all awesome. On top of that, he beats up on a lot of the rest of the high tier characters in similar ways that Vega does without the drawbacks.

Necalli can't go higher than I have him without him being as good as Ryu so I don't know what you want. I think he and Cammy are relatively as strong in the greater context of the game. The only Necalli that stood out to me over the weekend was Gamerbee with his conservative style.

Rashid is one of the characters I think people did a great job showing off at EVO.

 

[Rocky_Balboa]

E
Well that's not counting ps4. I've been a part of dieing fight game communities before, and SFV isn't that, lol. I would sure like those daily challenges tho... and rage quit punish for fuck's sake.
But honestly my biggest problem with the game is user side right now. Too many people just play the same 5 or 6 characters. Honestly, everytime I run into a Vega or a Dhalsim, I want to take a picture. It's like I ran into an endangered animal.

Yeah, I am not saying it is dying. Just that it could be better. If Capcom would start fixing the game, it would improve a lot. Current lobby search is so messed up and playing Ranked/Casual is getting annoying. At least they patched in the rematch system which is good. Still it takes time to learn match ups with 2-3 games. In battle lounge, it would be so much faster.

However I have been enjoying Rog and starting to get comfortable with him. Yesterday got some good games against Nash players. Ended the set with this, felt good.
https://gfycat.com/TightPointedFirecrest

 

[Karsticles]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";210527784]New official post-EVO HeebyGB's Inarguable Tier List:

People really coming out with their characters over the weekend. Seeing all the high level play really helped me break down a lot of the matchups and overall what the most valuable tools in this game are. Some of the high tier characters moved down a bit, and some of the low tier characters rose up. I think FANG especially is showing a higher ceiling than people were giving him credit for, and Karin is showing a few cracks.[/QUOTE]

IIRC, this is almost exactly my launch day tier list, lol. I wish I had saved it. The only difference is that I had Bison bottom mid because people kept telling me I was an idiot for calling him low tier, and I got tired of arguing about it.

Edit: Pretty sure I had Vega lower, too.

 

[Romars202129]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";210528408]I don't think it is. Nash is really showing that all the weaknesses people rattle off aren't really weaknesses, and his strengths are getting better. His anti airs are better than people think and he doesn't need invincible reversals to escape pressure. He has a ton of tools and they're all awesome. On top of that, he beats up on a lot of the rest of the high tier characters in similar ways that Vega does without the drawbacks.

Necalli can't go higher than I have him without him being as good as Ryu so I don't know what you want. I think he and Cammy are relatively as strong in the greater context of the game. The only Necalli that stood out to me over the weekend was Gamerbee with his conservative style.

Rashid is one of the characters I think people did a great job showing off at EVO.[/QUOTE]

I'm sorry, I think I'm misreading the chart? I thought most top right=best, most bottom left=worst?
If you're saying the top row is equal, hmm gotta think about that.
Anyways, the main point I'd bring up is I think you're equating player skill to power of the character too much. For instance, I think infiltration is just that good, not that Nash is highest tier. Also, I think those Rashid players would have done much better with a better character.
Also, I greatly agree about Gamerbee. I think he's the new best Necalli. He's more powerful reserved than the more aggressive version that have been in play. As for rank, again, I think I misunderstood your graph? I just still think he's a better character than some that seem? to be put above him.

 

["God's Beard!"]

IIRC, this is almost exactly my launch day tier list, lol. I wish I had saved it. The only difference is that I had Bison bottom mid because people kept telling me I was an idiot for calling him low tier, and I got tired of arguing about it.

Edit: Pretty sure I had Vega lower, too.

Well it's all context of course, tiers aren't just numbers. What tools are important are decided in part by the metagame. Vega gets weaker if there aren't as many people playing R.Mika and Necalli, for instance.

 

[kirblar]

The odds of Infiltration "accidentally" picking a top tier character are really low. Part of being a good player is intuitively figuring things like that out.

One underestimated thing is Nashes ease of confirming a CA late in a round. It's way easier for him relative to other characters due to scythe and Vtrigger.

Also, he has massive punishes for missed DPs that don't seem like they're there for most of the rest of the cast.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Also, he has massive punishes for missed DPs that don't seem like they're there for most of the rest of the cast.

Actually, ccFP xx EX Jaguar Kick, bMK xx HK Slash isn't insane damage. It just looks crazy. Ken and Ryu are the real heavy hitters.

That said, it doesn't really matter. Nash's strength is in dictating the pace of the match. Which is, of course, the most valuable ability in street fighter.

 

[Romars202129]

The odds of Infiltration "accidentally" picking a top tier character are really low. Part of being a good player is intuitively figuring things like that out.

One underestimated thing is Nashes ease of confirming a CA late in a round. It's way easier for him relative to other characters due to scythe and Vtrigger.

Also, he has massive punishes for missed DPs that don't seem like they're there for most of the rest of the cast.

I'm not saying he's low tier. I'm just saying I don't think he's highest tier. I still think Ryu owns that title alone.
Being able to punish dps super hard? Easy CA connect? Overpowered AA game? What if he had an invincible reversal, a dive kick and command grab too?
Necalli anyone?
Nash is really good for sure, but putting him on top because 3 were in the finals is jumping the gun a bit. imo.

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";210529749]Nash's strength is in dictating the pace of the match. Which is, of course, the most valuable ability in street fighter.[/QUOTE]

Than, isn't Mika highest tier?

 

[Marvel]

I'm no expert but I do not think Bison is low tier, like at all...

 

[Rocky_Balboa]

I'm no expert but I do not think Bison is low tier, like at all...

Mid-tier at best. That walk speed hurts a lot.

 

[Zackat]

Where can I find the vods of all the Rashid play? Not up yet?


I've been doing a pilgrimage of sorts lately learning how to play all these characters. Why not Rashid.

 

[Romars202129]

I'm no expert but I do not think Bison is low tier, like at all...

Mid-tier at best. That walk speed hurts a lot.

His weakness isn't easilly apparent. But there's a reason every major Bison player switched mains as we got further from release.

 

[Boogalogist]

Bison needs an overhead.

 

[Augemitbutter]

i still hate fighting bison. he works really well online. he's mid tier to me.

 

[Marvel]

Mid-tier at best. That walk speed hurts a lot.

Mid-tier seems fair.

 

[KingBroly]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";210527784]New official post-EVO HeebyGB's Inarguable Tier List:

People really coming out with their characters over the weekend. Seeing all the high level play really helped me break down a lot of the matchups and overall what the most valuable tools in this game are. Some of the high tier characters moved down a bit, and some of the low tier characters rose up. I think FANG especially is showing a higher ceiling than people were giving him credit for, and Karin is showing a few cracks.[/QUOTE]

I think Cammy's too high here.

And Laura still feels like a hard counter-pick to Cammy.

I don't know enough about Ibuki or Balrog right now to say where they lye.

 

[Pics_nao]

How do I play neutral with Ibuki? Hell, how do I play neutral in general? I keep walking myself into the corner ernie and getting bopped for my troubles

 

[Rice-Eater]

Someone please tell me you've come across these dudes as well. I just faced a Nash player that did nothing but mash st. LK. The thing is that this is maybe the 5th different guy I've faced doing this. I never kept track of names but I don't think it's the same player. The last one was a Gief player and the ones before them also played different characters otherwise I would have caught on and recognize it was the same character.

Unless I'm mistaken, all these matches have taken place in Casual because I don't remember earning any points for these wins. Just wondering but is this suppose to be some kind of joke that a certain group of players have agreed to do together?

 

[Sixfortyfive]

Someone please tell me you've come across these dudes as well. I just faced a Nash player that did nothing but mash st. LK. The thing is that this is maybe the 5th different guy I've faced doing this. I never kept track of names but I don't think it's the same player. The last one was a Gief player and the ones before them also played different characters otherwise I would have caught on and recognize it was the same character.

Unless I'm mistaken, all these matches have taken place in Casual because I don't remember earning any points for these wins. Just wondering but is this suppose to be some kind of joke that a certain group of players have agreed to do together?

EXP farming.

 

[mnz]

Someone please tell me you've come across these dudes as well. I just faced a Nash player that did nothing but mash st. LK. The thing is that this is maybe the 5th different guy I've faced doing this. I never kept track of names but I don't think it's the same player. The last one was a Gief player and the ones before them also played different characters otherwise I would have caught on and recognize it was the same character.

Unless I'm mistaken, all these matches have taken place in Casual because I don't remember earning any points for these wins. Just wondering but is this suppose to be some kind of joke that a certain group of players have agreed to do together?

Yep: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=210477963&postcount=1817

 

[Moaradin]

Someone please tell me you've come across these dudes as well. I just faced a Nash player that did nothing but mash st. LK. The thing is that this is maybe the 5th different guy I've faced doing this. I never kept track of names but I don't think it's the same player. The last one was a Gief player and the ones before them also played different characters otherwise I would have caught on and recognize it was the same character.

Unless I'm mistaken, all these matches have taken place in Casual because I don't remember earning any points for these wins. Just wondering but is this suppose to be some kind of joke that a certain group of players have agreed to do together?

I fought a guy like that once when I decided to try out Ibuki in Casuals. Never see it in Ranked though.

 

[Marvel]

Yup, I've seen two players doing that afk xp farming.

 

[KingBroly]

Yup, I've seen two players doing that afk xp farming.

You probably gain some FM that way, too.

Wonder how much you get over time.

 

[Rice-Eater]

EXP farming.

Yep: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=210477963&postcount=1817

Oh, I see now. Actually that's kind of brilliant. Makes me wonder how much FM they accumulate running 24/7 for days and maybe even weeks on end.

I don't care to do it myself but I ain't going to get upset over these guys doing this now that I'm aware of it.

 

[Marvel]

Quite a generous thing to do, handing over a big chunk of xp and a little FM to us lol. I certainly wasn't complaining.

Bit of a waste of time if you don't practice combos on em.

 

[mnz]

Well, I guess you could get every character to level 50 like that if you're insane. That's 1 million FM with all 20 characters.

The later levels on characters need 40-50k XP for a level and since you're only losing, that's going to be about 500 matches. And most people won't want to rematch of course.

 

[SSReborn]

Is Alex really thaaat low?

 

[Bizazedo]

Bison needs an overhead.

Pretty much my opinion, too. I think he's basically where GB put him on the tier list (yeah, I'm a Bison main, hence biased).

The problem with him is he has no mixup and the slow walk speed means he can't do a shuffle. At least in IV he had the walk speed to use throws as a mixup (which were then murdered by option selects, making him mid to low tier there, too).

 

[Sixfortyfive]

I think Viscant made a pretty good case when he said that Bison's meter dependency is a significant handicap for him.

Like, they gave him arguably scary tools in V-Trigger, but a 3-bar V-Trigger isn't something a good character has to depend on to win, and chaining EX special moves back to back obviously requires even more meter to burn. And when he doesn't have access to all of those tools, he's a pretty lacking, linear character.

Not a perfect analogy, but it kind of reminds me of non-oiled Hakan in SF4.

 

[Zerojul]

Is Alex really thaaat low?

Yeah I thought he was the strongest of the DLC chars ?

 

[Bizazedo]

I would also be okay with Bison having an invincible reversal psycho crusher. Maybe replace psycho shot.

 

[CountBlack]

bison op

Also I still think Alex is really solid, but has the same issues as most grapplers.

I think Cammy's too high here.

And Laura still feels like a hard counter-pick to Cammy.

I don't know enough about Ibuki or Balrog right now to say where they lye.

Please elaborate

 

[ViewtifulJC]

Stay free, DLC Characters

 

[Nemesis121]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";210527784]New official post-EVO HeebyGB's Inarguable Tier List:

People really coming out with their characters over the weekend. Seeing all the high level play really helped me break down a lot of the matchups and overall what the most valuable tools in this game are. Some of the high tier characters moved down a bit, and some of the low tier characters rose up. I think FANG especially is showing a higher ceiling than people were giving him credit for, and Karin is showing a few cracks.[/QUOTE]

Fuck i use too many low tier characters, but they so fun, yet so shitty, i need to pick a top tier character and join the one of the army's, sick of losing now..

 

[Marvel]

Fuck i use too many low tier characters, but they so fun, yet so shitty, i need to pick a top tier character and join the one of the army's, sick of losing now..

Ryu is the way my friend.

 

[mbpm1]

evoMindblown is the way my friend.

fixed

 

[Secret Character]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";210527784]New official post-EVO HeebyGB's Inarguable Tier List:

People really coming out with their characters over the weekend. Seeing all the high level play really helped me break down a lot of the matchups and overall what the most valuable tools in this game are. Some of the high tier characters moved down a bit, and some of the low tier characters rose up. I think FANG especially is showing a higher ceiling than people were giving him credit for, and Karin is showing a few cracks.[/QUOTE]

I'd put Cammy slightly lower (half a rung), Dhalsim higher and more to the left, and lol Bipson.

It still breaks my heart that Dictator has fallen so much. It was apparent during Beta 1 that his tools were really good, but man did he get nerfed hard from that point going forward. It wouldn't take much to fix him either, but then again, the same could be said for a couple other characters on the bottom.

 

[MrDaravon]

For all of the talk of Bison being ass I still get wrecked by him as Chun. Everyone tells me it's a good matchup for me, but I always have such a hard time dealing with him for some reason :/

 

[Secret Character]

For all of the talk of Bison being ass I still get wrecked by him as Chun. Everyone tells me it's a good matchup for me, but I always have such a hard time dealing with him for some reason :/

Without meter, he's pretty damn harmless. You just have to wait for him to make some kind of mistake and don't let him catch you hitting buttons or you'll eat a rough HK crush counter. When he has meter, he'll probably burn it on a confirm or on an EX head stomp or scissor kick to get in.

All of his specials, save for Devil's Reverse, have a LOT of recovery. Even things like LP Psycho Inferno is unsafe on block. As Chun, you'll be able to out-poke him with ease. Also, because he's a charge character, you should be doing your hardest to ensure he can't keep charge. Ambiguous cross-ups are Chun's thing, so use it a lot in this fight and you'll be able to win no problem.

 

[BrunOz]

bison op

Also I still think Alex is really solid, but has the same issues as most grapplers.

Just for curiosity, what are those issues?

I play as Alex, I just wish we had a wider hitbox for his stomp so we could cross-up like 3rd Strike and a better use for his dive attack (but I'm not so sure about this since dive attacks (hey Necalli!) overall aren't that good in this game, maybe for overall gameplay design..).

 

[CountBlack]

Just for curiosity, what are those issues?

I play as Alex, I just wish we had a wider hitbox for his stomp so we could cross-up like 3rd Strike and a better use for his dive attack (but I'm not so sure about this since dive attacks (hey Necalli!) overall aren't that good in this game, maybe for overall gameplay design..).

Gief/Laura/Mika/Alex are all free on wakeup. Lots of high risk decent reward (not so much Mika lol). Fireball characters/Chun are usually bad MU's. Alex can deal with fireballs a bit better than the others IMO because of his stomp.

If I had to rate the grapplers it'd go:
Mika
Alex
Laura
Gief

Also, if his stomp crossed up that shit would be cheap as hell lmao unless they made it more obvious and more negative on block.

 

[molnizzle]

What is up with all the dudes with like 50 LP that are obviously super experienced? Why would you smuf in SFV?

 

[MrDaravon]

For all of the talk of Bison being ass I still get wrecked by him as Chun. Everyone tells me it's a good matchup for me, but I always have such a hard time dealing with him for some reason :/

 

[kirblar]

His weakness isn't easilly apparent. But there's a reason every major Bison player switched mains as we got further from release.

The stat breakdown shows him with an insane winter in the bronze player tier that plummets as you go up. Hes a noobkiller.

 

[sixteen-bit]

Stay free, DLC Characters

They need to get that Arc System Works technology where the DLC characters are OP so they make u wanna buy them.

 

[mnz]

What is up with all the dudes with like 50 LP that are obviously super experienced? Why would you smuf in SFV?

In Battle Lounge or casual? Not everyone likes to play ranked.

 

[AEREC]

So Ive purchased Alex, Guile and Ibuki with Fight Money and now I kinda want to get the season pass since getting the rest of the characters\stages will require grinding in survival.

Any chance Ill get any Fight Money back that Ive already spent on characters? I know its not likely but figured Id ask anyways.