Support NeoGAF

[spazchicken]

I just came back from Comicon and had to test out my skills in the wild. They had Juri and Urien playable.

I wanted to use Juri as a side to Nash but I don't like the idea of doing a move in order to queue a move for use and remember if you have it or not in a split second of intense combat. What's the point of that?

I just watched dudes get stuffed trying to queue the move or forget that they don't have it.

 

[Romars202129]

Man I love wake up super. It feels so scummy, but it feels so good too.

How about after an unsafe move? I'm always like, looks like this move is plus on block now, don't it?
Super scummy, super sattisfying.

 

[Zackat]

Man I love wake up super. It feels so scummy, but it feels so good too.

when I let myself get hit with nash AA super I get so mad. lol.

don't jump when nash has full bars.

I just came back from Comicon and had to test out my skills in the wild. They had Juri and Urien playable.

I wanted to use Juri as a side to Nash but I don't like the idea of doing a move in order to queue a move for use and remember if you have it or not in a split second of intense combat. What's the point of that?

I just watched dudes get stuffed trying to queue the move or forget that they don't have it.

yeah I imagine it will take some getting used to. Is the strategy to basically stock up then go ham, retreat, rinse, repeat?

how is her backdash?

 

[kirblar]

It's a really weird implementation of her negative edge fireballs from SF4. I get the idea, but its still really fucking weird when only one's a fireball.

 

[spazchicken]

when I let myself get hit with nash AA super I get so mad. lol.

don't jump when nash has full bars.



yeah I imagine it will take some getting used to. Is the strategy to basically stock up then go ham, retreat, rinse, repeat?

how is her backdash?

It seems like that's the strategy so far. I don't remember her backdash. I know someone used it though. Sorry.

 

[lucebuce12]

How about after an unsafe move? I'm always like, looks like this move is plus on block now, don't it?
Super scummy, super sattisfying.

Particularly satisfying when you condition your opponent. Like FANG's st.hk is +1 on block so anyone with a 3-frame jab can always safely throw it out and beat anything that follows it.

At the end of a long battle lounge session, I did a st.hk and then super afterwards, and he for sure did a 3-frame jab and I won!

 

[Ketch]

How is it possible to reliable do the full circle motion (like zangief piledriver) without jumping?

 

[Big Brett]

How is it possible to reliable do the full circle motion (like zangief piledriver) without jumping?

there's a shortcut input. if you're on the left of your opponent, start the motion all the way to the left, and swoop it up+right. It's like a 270 motion

 

[lucebuce12]

How is it possible to reliable do the full circle motion (like zangief piledriver) without jumping?

Personally, I just start from down-forward and do a 270 motion from there, feels natural for my thumbs.

You don't need to do a full 360 to get the SPD out, and you don't need to do a 720 to get the CA out, just a 540 will do.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Urien's v-skill Knee dive is gonna be some troll shit

 

[Shackzam]

I went to the Chicago redbull battlegrounds tourney today and got top 16 playing balrog. I only lost to cool kid and some bison. Had a lot of fun at the event. I got to get used to being on stream with all the matches I went through. I can probably do better next time with more practice with match-ups.

 

["God's Beard!"]

If you want to know how much of a god Infiltration is, look at this:

Infiltration said that he knew Fuudo knew he was going to go for v-reversal, it was actually a bait on Fuudo's part. So what Infiltration did is delay the reversal to mess up the back jump timing. If you look closely, Fuudo actually jumps back before the reversal begins.

This way infiltration gets out and beats the punish anyway. Just maximumizing his advantage.

 

[lucebuce12]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";211176648]If you want to know how much of a god Infiltration is, look at this:

Infiltration said that he knew Fuudo knew he was going to go for v-reversal, it was actually a bait on Fuudo's part. So what Infiltration did is delay the reversal to mess up the back jump timing. If you look closely, Fuudo actually jumps back before the reversal begins.

This way infiltration gets out and beats the punish anyway. Just maximumizing his advantage.[/QUOTE]God, this game is so honest. I love it.

 

[Rice-Eater]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";211176648]If you want to know how much of a god Infiltration is, look at this:

Infiltration said that he knew Fuudo knew he was going to go for v-reversal, it was actually a bait on Fuudo's part. So what Infiltration did is delay the reversal to mess up the back jump timing. If you look closely, Fuudo actually jumps back before the reversal begins.

This way infiltration gets out and beats the punish anyway. Just maximumizing his advantage.[/QUOTE]

It also looks like Fuudo neutral jumped right after that to bait Infiltration into punishing him. But Infil knew better was like "nope, I'm outta here". If that's true then it's even more brilliant on Infiltration's part to recognize all of this. The way he was able to correctly guess every command grab and meaty without a DP was just amazing.

 

[Romars202129]

How in the hell do you delay a v reversal?

 

[Shadoken]

How in the hell do you delay a v reversal?

You can V-reversal during blockstun. So an early v-reversal would be at the earlier frames of block stun and a delayed one would be at the end.
In this particular scene , since fuudo cancelled into V-trigger. Infiltration was stuck in blockstun for quite a while.


Typically people do it early , because the more you delay it the less recovery your opponent has. But there are cases where delaying is good , it can catch opponents doing a frametrap. Do it to early and they might not press the 2nd button. And ofc there is also the above scenario.

 

[lucebuce12]

How in the hell do you delay a v reversal?

The heavier the normal, the longer the blockstun. You can do a V-reversal as long as you're in blockstun, which is why lights are usually used to bait it out. They're fast, recover quick and the blockstun is such a limited window that they have to take a risk.

Heavy attacks generally have a lot more blockstun and so you have a much larger window. It's actually legit, because sometimes you can V-reversal as soon as a heavy hits and they might still block it. However if you wait until the last possible moment, they might start doing another move and get hit by it.

If Infiltration had V-reversaled as soon as possible, Fuudo might have been able to hit with a j.lk and then Infil would've had to deal with the threat of the incoming Nadeshiko as well as a command grab.

By delaying it and playing defensively, he managed to get out of the vortex that is the Mika V-Trigger.

 

[Romars202129]

You can V-reversal during blockstun. So an early v-reversal would be at the earlier frames of block stun and a delayed one would be at the end.

In this particular scene , since fuudo cancelled into V-trigger. Infiltration was stuck in blockstun for quite a while.

I had no idea, figured it was only right after a hit.

 

["God's Beard!"]

btw, Infiltration has gone from hating Mika and thinking it's Nash's worst matchup post-NCR to saying it's 5-5. He did his homework.

It also looks like Fuudo neutral jumped right after that to bait Infiltration into punishing him. But Infil knew better was like "nope, I'm outta here". If that's true then it's even more brilliant on Infiltration's part to recognize all of this. The way he was able to correctly guess every command grab and meaty without a DP was just amazing.

Infiltration knew that Nadeshiko was coming.

 

[Shadoken]

I had no idea, figured it was only right after a hit.

Its very useful against Fireball chars too.

Like if someone like Nash throws an FB and dashes in to pressure , you can V-reversal the fireball late so that you V-reversal will hit his dash.

If you do it early it will whiff. Some characters like Karin can also do V-reversal to Anti Air , if they throw an FB and jump in during the blockstun.

 

[Steroyd]

How in the hell do you delay a v reversal?

The stronger the attack, the longer the block stun the longer time window to v reversal, it also helps that Fuudo's V trigger delayed the process even more so Infil had more time to plan his escape route.

I actually admire Fuudo's bait, instead of doing a light attack and then back dash throw like Tokido does, he uses Nadeshiko to get infil to eat more damage.

Meanwhile I forget V reversal is a thing.

 

[Shadoken]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";211178034]
Infiltration knew that Nadeshiko was coming.[/QUOTE]

That timely jump back to avoid nadeshko.

Damn man , Evo 2016 couldnt have gone to a better player. Truly a god.

 

[kirblar]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";211178034]btw, Infiltration has gone from hating Mika and thinking it's Nash's worst matchup post-NCR to saying it's 5-5. He did his homework.



Infiltration knew that Nadeshiko was coming.[/QUOTE]
5-5 sounds right. Everyone thinks the Mika matchup is a nightmare at first, it's not until you learn how to keep her out that it starts feeling sane again. You're just always going to have the game where you get blender'd.

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

there's a shortcut input. if you're on the left of your opponent, start the motion all the way to the left, and swoop it up+right. It's like a 270 motion

Only 225 degrees needed, 270 degress is 6321478, 632147 should be enough.

 

[Gr1mLock]

God I'm becoming one of those bad winners people. Just won a really close (and fun) set but got hella irritated in the last game. Upon reviewing the tapes I concluded that I too would have chanced jumps in those spots.

 

[Rice-Eater]

I'm starting to become a bit of a asshole towards certain kind of players. Mainly the ones that continue to jump back or back dash(well actually this is just Nash players) even when I'm holding the life lead. I will start imitating their desperation to get as far away from me as possible.

Earlier I had this Nash player nearly dead and he escaped the corner against me. So he back dashed all the way to the other side and even did it a few more times when he reached the end. I didn't chase, instead I started back dashing obsessively against the wall on my side of the stage lol.

 

[Coda]

I'm starting to become a bit of a asshole towards certain kind of players. Mainly the ones that continue to jump back or back dash(well actually this is just Nash players) even when I'm holding the life lead. I will start imitating their desperation to get as far away from me as possible.

Earlier I had this Nash player nearly dead and he escaped the corner against me. So he back dashed all the way to the other side and even did it a few more times when he reached the end. I didn't chase, instead I started back dashing obsessively against the wall on my side of the stage lol.

Turtling and constantly back dashing until the corner only while rinse and repeating the same thing over and over is super annoying; I feel your pain haha.

 

[lucebuce12]

I'm starting to become a bit of a asshole towards certain kind of players. Mainly the ones that continue to jump back or back dash(well actually this is just Nash players) even when I'm holding the life lead. I will start imitating their desperation to get as far away from me as possible.

Earlier I had this Nash player nearly dead and he escaped the corner against me. So he back dashed all the way to the other side and even did it a few more times when he reached the end. I didn't chase, instead I started back dashing obsessively against the wall on my side of the stage lol.

But Infiltration does it so there's gotta be a good reason.

Spoiler

/s

 

[Rice-Eater]

Turtling and constantly back dashing until the corner only while rinse and repeating the same thing over and over is super annoying; I feel your pain haha.

Turtling is cool, some characters are designed that way and some people just want to play that way. I play Ryu so I turtle quite a bit myself depending on the match up.

I'm mainly talking about the folks that continue back dashing and up backing even when they reach the other end and we're about as far away from each other as possible while I hold the life lead. I'm like "Dog, I don't have to come to you. You know what, you stay on your side and I'll stay on mine".

But Infiltration does it so there's gotta be a good reason.

Spoiler

/s

Well...I think that's actually a good point. Is Infiltration the originator of back dash yourself into the corner Nash? Just wondering because so many do that to themselves.

 

[lucebuce12]

Turtling is cool, some characters are designed that way and some people just want to play that way. I play Ryu so I turtle quite a bit myself depending on the match up.

I'm mainly talking about the folks that continue back dashing and up backing even when they reach the other end and we're about as far away from each other as possible while I hold the life lead. I'm like "Dog, I don't have to come to you. You know what, you stay on your side and I'll stay on mine".



Well...I think that's actually a good point. Is Infiltration the originator of back dash yourself into the corner Nash? Just wondering because so many do that to themselves.

Considering how many Nash players I've seen just spam st.lp as though it actually does something, yes. Infiltration is the best hit-n-run Nash of all the Nash players, almost all of his grand finals against Tokido were just increasingly annoying and frustrating hit and run style which a lot of people are adopting but very few are actually good at.

Infiltration inspired a LOT of Nash players.

 

[Zackat]

Hit and run nash is annoying.

Ken doing the same shit with random unsafe shoryus is on another level of frustration for me. Can't get a read on that at all. Flow chart Ken losses feels real bad.

 

[SeeNoWeevil]

Getting really tired of some of Gief's matchups. Nash is just not fun and against a good player just straight up feels unwinnable.

 

[lucebuce12]

When you compare Nash and Guile, you realize just how strong one is and how weak the other is.

 

[Etrian Oddity]

Man I love wake up super. It feels so scummy, but it feels so good too.

That's something I never got into. I'll wakeup DP quite a bit because 70% of online players just wanna pressure when they get a knockdown, but I'm pretty judicious with critical art.

I'm starting to become a bit of a asshole towards certain kind of players. Mainly the ones that continue to jump back or back dash(well actually this is just Nash players) even when I'm holding the life lead. I will start imitating their desperation to get as far away from me as possible.

Earlier I had this Nash player nearly dead and he escaped the corner against me. So he back dashed all the way to the other side and even did it a few more times when he reached the end. I didn't chase, instead I started back dashing obsessively against the wall on my side of the stage lol.

Hit 'n run Nash doesn't bother me, Boom loses to Necalli's V-Skill so they tend to get discouraged really quickly. It's aggro Nash with his great normals that tends to foil me (that damned overhead >_<)

 

[Augemitbutter]

random nash spamming s.lp is an invitation for me to rush them down. can't respect those guys.

 

[lucebuce12]

That's something I never got into. I'll wakeup DP quite a bit because 70% of online players just wanna pressure when they get a knockdown, but I'm pretty judicious with critical art.

Well, there's no reason to do a wakeup critical art when you already have a DP. I think we were specifically talking about wake up CA for characters that don't have invincible reversals or at best require meter for them.

 

[Zerojul]

When you compare Nash and Guile, you realize just how strong one is and how weak the other is.

Sad but true
I'm sticking with good ol' flattop though

 

[lucebuce12]

Sad but true
I'm sticking with good ol' flattop though

Yeah, I mean there is a difference in character strength but it's not like we're practicing for tournaments and EVOs, so we should definitely just play the characters we enjoy

I honestly would start picking up Guile too if his AA game got a little bit better. I've always enjoyed playing with him.

 

[Zerojul]

Yeah, I mean there is a difference in character strength but it's not like we're practicing for tournaments and EVOs, so we should definitely just play the characters we enjoy

I honestly would start picking up Guile too if his AA game got a little bit better. I've always enjoyed playing with him.

I think a little bit less recovery on his booms is all he needs to become a real brick wall. Maybe balancing him is a little bit trickier than it seems, I don't know

 

[Strangelove77]

So someone here told me a cheap way to do normal survival with Bison(head stomp over and over), are there any other characters where it's that easy?
I already did Ryu, Ken and Cammy. And of course, Bison.

 

[lucebuce12]

I think a little bit less recovery on his booms is all he needs to become a real brick wall. Maybe balancing him is a little bit trickier than it seems, I don't know

I feel like Guile's certainly a lot "riskier" in this game. He still has the best fireball in the game but it's still not foolproof.

That being said, I feel like he should have THE best AAs in the game, simply because he's freaking Guile which I feel like isn't necessarily the case. Even his flash kick can sometimes trade with jumping attacks.

Still though ,him and all the DLC characters have been weaker than the main cast and I don't expect that to change with Juri and Urien.

Really curious to see how they go about with balancing once the time comes.

So someone here told me a cheap way to do normal survival with Bison(head stomp over and over), are there any other characters where it's that easy?
I already did Ryu, Ken and Cammy. And of course, Bison.

You can definitely clear Normal survival with F.A.N.G by just repeatedly spamming d+u poison balls depending on the distance. The enemy just likes to stay there and block until their stun bar goes down which hon't happen if they keep blocking or getting hit by poison.

Birdie can just spam the chain to get to at least level 20-25ish. Then it gets slightly harder but still doable.

Rashid can spam eagle kick and it works for normal survival.

 

[Moaradin]

Juri seems solid all around tbh

Urien has some crazy mixup potential but opening people up is probably gonna be his biggest challenge.

 

[Zerojul]

So someone here told me a cheap way to do normal survival with Bison(head stomp over and over), are there any other characters where it's that easy?
I already did Ryu, Ken and Cammy. And of course, Bison.

I think spamming Eagle Spike with Rashid worked quite well for me on normal.

 

["God's Beard!"]

I thought Tokido was the fastest improving player at the highest level, but I didn't give enough credit to Infiltration. A lot of people didn't notice, but a lot of the stuff that caused him to get hit by Tokido are just gone now. There's a lot of options he stopped using, the magnifying glass he takes to his character is just obscene. Tokido was impressing me by moving to the next efficient thing, the new frame data analysis at each tournament, but Infiltration had already moved on from that and started worrying about throwing off timings, his opponent's mental state and the overall mind game.

The delayed v-reversal to beat Fuudo's reversal punish was something he practiced specifically.

Tokido is still learning the game Infiltration is playing.

Juri seems solid all around tbh

Urien has some crazy mixup potential but opening people up is probably gonna be his biggest challenge.

Out of all the DLC characters other than Guile I think Urien is the one that least relies on mixing people up.

 

[Moaradin]

I just couldn't get anything going from what little I played of him. His combos and Aegis setups are fun, but I couldn't hit confirm for shit. His pokes are really good though. Nice range.

Maybe I just suck with charge characters lol

 

[Shadow_Lord]

Y'all are tripping, spamming St.LP with Nash is a legit strategy. It kinds fakes the startup of a boom and so the opponent might jump and get destroyed. Plus it's a Jab so there's no way you're getting punished unless you're playing Tool_Assissted.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Urien is great. Long-ass Nash pokes, far-reaching cancelable normals, meterless aimable 2-hit fireballs, meterless armored specials, good health, good forward walk speed.

He doesn't have a crossup and his knee dive is kind of a gimmick but otherwise he's a pretty solid character. He can confirm off lows and v-trigger his multiple overheads. His crush counter is pretty good. I think he has the tools to find success. Plus he has the coolest looking backroll animation in the game.

cMK xx EX elbow, 6MP is such a solid BNB.

 

[lucebuce12]

Y'all are tripping, spamming St.LP with Nash is a legit strategy. It kinds fakes the startup of a boom and so the opponent might jump and get destroyed. Plus it's a Jab so there's no way you're getting punished unless you're playing Tool_Assissted.

I really don't think anyone's falling for that.

 

[Shadow_Lord]

I really don't think anyone's falling for that.

I baited a couple of antsy Nashes who did their supers as soon as I flinched. So personally I'm still gonna do it.

 

[lucebuce12]

I baited a couple of antsy Nashes who did their supers as soon as I flinched. So personally I'm still gonna do it.

Must be some sort of weird Anti-Nash strategy then.