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[SneakersSO]

That sounds like it might be in line with their plan if differentiating the characters more and using their unique skills.

Yup. Looking at a few of the other changes characters got, it seemed like they want either more v-skill usage (Juri, R.Mika), V-Trigger Usage (Dhalsim, Urien) or V-reversal usage (F.A.N.G, Cammy). And these are the more notable v-system changes that characters received that people have taken notice of so far. To be honest, most players used Nash's VT as either another escape option or just used it solely for V-Reversal. i think they are giving Nash tools to get more V-meter gains because they want him to give him more options. And honestly, a Nash consistently getting 2 VTs per round is legit scary, even with the nerfs he's received in terms of his dashes.

 

[The Lone Dragon]

Not gonna lie, the Alex nerfs kinda make me happy.

He's not a character that was incredibly strong, and he certainly didn't need a lot of those nerfs but........ well, I'm not broken up about it.

He's not really all that nerfed when you look at the game changes as a whole.

His longer pokes are slower now...but, so are everyone else's.

He still has most of his damage (in fact he has more damage in some cases). His AA game got scarier.

And, his biggest flaw (his defense) got buffed thanks to system changes...and a projectile invincible EX stomp (no more helplessly dying to chip).

 

[SneakersSO]

He's not really all that nerfed when you look at the game changes as a whole.

His longer pokes are slower now...but, so are everyone else's.

He still has most of his damage (in fact he has more damage in some cases). His AA game got scarier.

And, his biggest flaw (his defense) got buffed.

Plus, he was given more offensive tools for footsie range that lead to big damage, which was arguably one of the things he was missing (he can combo into chop from more buttons now).

 

[Endless-Bravado]

His longer pokes are slower now...but, so are everyone else's.

Cammy's best buttons got buffed. Explain that!

 

[The Lone Dragon]

Cammy's best buttons got buffed. Explain that!

She has 900 health and no more DP on wakeup.

 

[mbpm1]

His longer pokes are slower now...but, so are everyone else's.

Juri's aren't

 

[Edzi]

Anyone wanna get a few quick matches? Last time I'll be playing Season 1. CFN EdziPC

He's not really all that nerfed when you look at the game changes as a whole.

His longer pokes are slower now...but, so are everyone else's.

He still has most of his damage (in fact he has more damage in some cases). His AA game got scarier.

And, his biggest flaw (his defense) got buffed thanks to system changes...and a projectile invincible EX stomp (no more helplessly dying to chip).

Plus, he was given more offensive tools for footsie range that lead to big damage, which was arguably one of the things he was missing (he can combo into chop from more buttons now).

Good points, I was just thinking earlier how taking these changes in isolation probably won't mean much. Gotta see how it all goes together.

 

[B-Genius]

I've already bought the season pass and did the same for s1 before the game even released.

As soon as I can, I'm jumping straight in, buying the Season Pass and everything.

Nice. I'm buying less cosmetic stuff than I thought I would, so thinking I can start putting this hard-earned FM to better use. I only have one local friend who plays SFV, and if he absolutely has to have a character, I wouldn't mind spending 4quid here or there. Same as buying a homie a couple of beers.

I don't, as I just said. Fighting games have always been a favourite of mine so I don't consider them a "casual" interest.

I've been playing fighting games for years, too. They're one of my favourite genres, and I have a fair amount of emotional investment in some characters, but I won't argue with people who are *initially* upset over changes to characters they've been trying to master for months. In the eyes of those who frequent tournaments and have a healthy local scene, I'm definitely a "casual".

Besides, some knee-jerk reactions are probably just for laughs (this is the internet, after all). Maybe some are serious, but it's possible those people may come around eventually. Remember the changes from Datamined Urien to the official one? People flipped lids over that, yet he turned out just fine. Just give them some space for the time being, hehe.

 

[kirblar]

Floe is loving the Karin changes. He doesn't think they touched her core gameplay at all, they just shaved off some obnoxious stuff while adding some nice QoL fixes.

 

[SneakersSO]

Anyone wanna get a few quick matches? Last time I'll be playing Season 1. CFN EdziPC





Good points, I was just thinking earlier how taking these changes in isolation probably won't mean much. Gotta see how it all goes together.

The one thing I will say about S2 changes so far that Capcom seemed to really hit home is that every character got more tools in terms of combos. Characters either got more combo tools or more defensive tools that are combos in & of themselves. I actually like this cause, going by everything i've seen, outside of Guile, I can do all the combos I could in S1, and can now do more combos than I could before.

I think this is super important for the community in general, because its less I have to unlearn a combo, so much as I should realign how I approach my character in a different area of play. These are solid changes imo.

 

[Edzi]

GGs Sol, but those were some of the laggiest matches of my SFV career lol. Fitting way to end season 1.

Anyone else wanna go for a quick set? CFN EdziPC.

 

[SolarPowered]

wow

I got no chance to use Karin.

 

[Edzi]

wow

I got no chance to use Karin.

Was that you? Lol, the teleports were real man.

 

[kirblar]

Floe on Cammy's changes: Did Xiao Hai write these? K-Brad is going to win everything! Thinks Du will switch to her.

 

[SolarPowered]

Was that you? Lol, the teleports were real man.

I experienced exactly no lag whatsoever.

 

[Gr1mLock]

It's kinda sad to see how much more attention some characters got than others.

 

[Edzi]

I experienced exactly no lag whatsoever.

SFV in a nutshell.

 

[Hours Left]

I've been playing fighting games for years, too. They're one of my favourite genres, and I have a fair amount of emotional investment in some characters, but I won't argue with people who are *initially* upset over changes to characters they've been trying to master for months. In the eyes of those who frequent tournaments and have a healthy local scene, I'm definitely a "casual".

Besides, some knee-jerk reactions are probably just for laughs (this is the internet, after all). Maybe some are serious, but it's possible those people may come around eventually. Remember the changes from Datamined Urien to the official one? People flipped lids over that, yet he turned out just fine. Just give them some space for the time being, hehe.

I don't think being upset is unwarranted, just the idea they'd throw away all that experience with a character instead of trying to adapt to the changes seems wasteful to me. But I'm certain many players don't think of the characters the way I do, and see them as more of a means to an end. People can and should do whatever they want, and if that's how they want to play the game, then more power to them. I just hope it's not draining the fun out of the experience.

RE: The casual thing, it's just a pet peeve of mine as you see lots of people saying the opinions of those outside the FGC don't mean as much because they don't "invest the time". I've invested a lot of time into fighting games, and will continue to do so. I understand players not wanting to be subject to the whims of those that see fighters as disposable button mashers, and who don't care about the future of the genre, but I'm not one of those people. I just happen to be drawn more to other aspects of fighters besides pouring over balance changes and tracking the pro tourney scene.

 

[spazchicken]

Yup. Looking at a few of the other changes characters got, it seemed like they want either more v-skill usage (Juri, R.Mika), V-Trigger Usage (Dhalsim, Urien) or V-reversal usage (F.A.N.G, Cammy). And these are the more notable v-system changes that characters received that people have taken notice of so far. To be honest, most players used Nash's VT as either another escape option or just used it solely for V-Reversal. i think they are giving Nash tools to get more V-meter gains because they want him to give him more options. And honestly, a Nash consistently getting 2 VTs per round is legit scary, even with the nerfs he's received in terms of his dashes.

Yeah but then they made his v-reversal worse than it already was. Making it more vulnerable on startup and having more recovery at the end.

You're probably trying to salvage and find some good in what they did to Nash but he's done. They wen't overboard. I hope it sounds worse on paper than it actually is but I'm not optimistic.

 

[ScraftyDevil]

Y'know, I'm pretty ok with these Mika changes overall. They'll take some getting used to but I ain't gonna drop the character I campaigned for like 6 years for over a handful of nerfs.

Super glad that I decided to make Urien my sub though; these plentiful buffs make it look like he'll be able to handle a lot of the matchups that Mika really struggles with. I do hope that one of the S2 characters clicks with me though as I'd love to add a cool new fighter to my wheelhouse instead of relying on my Alpha 3 and 3rd Strike mains

 

[myco666]

92 pages? Oh boy. I need my morning coffee for this.

Why did Birdie lose frame 1 armor from Ex Bullhorn? Couldn't do it consistently as a reversal so not that big of a change for me personally but still seems pretty weird.

 

[SneakersSO]

Yeah but then they made his v-reversal worse than it already was. Making it more vulnerable on startup and having more recovery at the end.

You're probably trying to salvage and find some good in what they did to Nash but he's done. They wen't overboard. I hope it sounds worse on paper than it actually is but I'm not optimistic.

Going by the changes, they didn't want people playing Nash the way Infil made famous. Keepaway Nash, or rather giving him full options to just slip & slide all over the screen all the time, have clearly been suppressed. But his options to gain v-meter are up and he was given a target combo that facilitates v-meter gains. If Nash truly is getting 2 full VT activations per match CONSISTENTLY (and this is key - if its only happening under ideal circumstances than its NBD. If its happening in most matches through natural play? Yeah, thats awesome) then balancing him around that is going to be key.

Give it some time, watch & see how this is gonna play out. Never forget - according to week 1 SFV, Bison & Sim were top tier & broken. That sentiment changed within a month.

 

[DR2K]

I'm happy that Cammy remained mostly the same. Any nerfs she got were mostly universal system changes. Better AA and juggle opportunities cast and system wide hurt her, since she relies on her air mobility. Loss of invincibility on DP hurts. Also dive kicks slightly nerfed.

Hoping she has her air throw, as it would be nice to have. Regardless she's going to be very good.

 

[lucebuce12]

92 pages? Oh boy. I need my morning coffee for this.

Why did Birdie lose frame 1 armor from Ex Bullhorn? Couldn't do it consistently as a reversal so not that big of a change for me personally but still seems pretty weird.

For some reason, that's something they don't seem to want anyone to have.

 

[allintospace]

Floe is loving the Karin changes. He doesn't think they touched her core gameplay at all, they just shaved off some obnoxious stuff while adding some nice QoL fixes.

Has floe said anything about Birdie?

 

[LincolnTunnel]

Has floe said anything about Birdie?

He said he thinks Birdie'll have a lot more combo opportunities but he's not sure exactly how the added juggle properties on some of his moves will actually work.

 

[B-Genius]

Hours, I think we're in the same boat.
I'd also hope they can still find enjoyment, either in the game as a whole, or in learning a new character (which can be very fun, even if purely as a "means to an end").

The casual thing is a delicate subject. Being "casual" doesn't necessarily mean your opinion doesn't matter. Capcom says the goal with S2 changes "was to ensure a rich, diverse gameplay experience with each character that both players and spectators can enjoy," which doesn't seem like it's aimed specifically at pros or FGC enthusiasts.

You could even argue that they're just as (if not more) determined to keep casual players happy, as the end result is hopefully a game that feels more fair and makes more sense. The very fact that you're reading the patch notes means you invest more in SFV than most players, and I suppose seeing the raw details/numbers affects us all in various ways.

I just happen to be drawn more to other aspects of fighters...

( ͡º ͜ʖ ͡º)

 

[myco666]

For some reason, that's something they don't seem to want anyone to have.

Just read that no one has 1 frame armor. Thats a bit odd honestly. Thought they would add 1 frame armor for everyone but I guess not.

 

[SneakersSO]

Looks like i'm learning a new Urien BnB tomorrow. AND ITS METERLESS!
https://twitter.com/AmbassadorFoxx/status/810868181162147840

 

[allintospace]

He said he thinks Birdie'll have a lot more combo opportunities but he's not sure exactly how the added juggle properties on some of his moves will actually work.

Thanks. This will sound so casual scrub but after maining Karin I had a s.lk and c.lk habit that crossed over when picking up Birdie. To start with that was how I learned birdie's combos. I wanna see what other combo opportunities he has now.

 

[Edzi]

Looks like i'm learning a new Urien BnB tomorrow. AND ITS METERLESS!
https://twitter.com/AmbassadorFoxx/status/810868181162147840

Amazing. Gonna be hard to split my time between Urien, Akuma, and Alex (and maybe Juri) but stuff like this is gonna keep me coming back.

 

[spazchicken]

Going by the changes, they didn't want people playing Nash the way Infil made famous. Keepaway Nash, or rather giving him full options to just slip & slide all over the screen all the time, have clearly been suppressed. But his options to gain v-meter are up and he was given a target combo that facilitates v-meter gains. If Nash truly is getting 2 full VT activations per match CONSISTENTLY (and this is key - if its only happening under ideal circumstances than its NBD. If its happening in most matches through natural play? Yeah, thats awesome) then balancing him around that is going to be key.

Give it some time, watch & see how this is gonna play out. Never forget - according to week 1 SFV, Bison & Sim were top tier & broken. That sentiment changed within a month.

True the perception of who was good and who wasn't changed pretty dramatically. Nash has next to no defense so he needed to be illusive. They didn't fix his walk speed. He has no shimmy, no three frame jab, no wakeup reversal and now his other mobility options have been compromised and all of his main tools slowed down (and weakened).

But I'll hang in there. Maybe the 2 VT will work out, as you said. Nash is my only character so I'll play him even if he is reduced to Dan status.

 

[Moaradin]

Looks like i'm learning a new Urien BnB tomorrow. AND ITS METERLESS!
https://twitter.com/AmbassadorFoxx/status/810868181162147840

Holy shit. I swear I tried to do something similar in the beta build and it didn't work. Can't wait to mess around with this tomorrow.

 

[Kashiwaba]

She has 900 health and no more DP on wakeup.

That's what us Rashidoo players been going through for the whole S1 900 health and no DP on wakeup so i guess you have to learn how to adapt .


Edited actually 950 :0 lol

 

[SneakersSO]

After reading Juri changes, I am adding her to my list of characters I am gonna put time into this year. Right now, Ibuki/Juri/Urien/Necalli are my list of must plays for the next 3 months. I am tentative on Bison & Alex right now - gonna wait and see how they shake out.

Also, for people who checked out that Urien combo I posted - check the last few posts on that guy's TL. He has some other silly Urien S2 combos in there.

 

[BlizzKrut]

92 pages, damn! Not sure how I feel on the Alex changes, I'm happy his V-Skill, his Lariat and his cr.HP got some love but I'm going to have to change my aporoaching gameplay a lot due to the Elbow changes.

Very excited for tomorrow, can't wait!

 

[Ucchedavāda]

Wow, Capcom delivered in style!

I'm looking forward to seeing how all of this pans out, in the coming year.

And I really hope that their new anti rage-quitting measures works as intended, because that would be a pretty big step up from SFIV, where the best you could do was try to memorize quitters (shout-out to 'Shout of Earth'), and refuse matches against them.

 

[Hours Left]

Hours, I think we're in the same boat.
I'd also hope they can still find enjoyment, either in the game as a whole, or in learning a new character (which can be very fun, even if purely as a "means to an end").

The casual thing is a delicate subject. Being "casual" doesn't necessarily mean your opinion doesn't matter. Capcom says the goal with S2 changes "was to ensure a rich, diverse gameplay experience with each character that both players and spectators can enjoy," which doesn't seem like it's aimed specifically at pros or FGC enthusiasts.

You could even argue that they're just as (if not more) determined to keep casual players happy, as the end result is hopefully a game that feels more fair and makes more sense. The very fact that you're reading the patch notes means you invest more in SFV than most players, and I suppose seeing the raw details/numbers affects us all in various ways.

I think anyone with a genuine interest in SF, for whatever reason, has a right the right to express an opinion. Considering anyone who that would apply to as "casual" doesn't really sit right with me, as the term "casual gamer" is pretty loaded nowadays.

Anyway, I also hope the S2 changes will be a benefit as a whole, though right now it seems a bit chaotic. And bring on those non-FGC changes too. I'm still waiting for some more single player content, and more cosmetic options that suit my tastes.

( ͡º ͜ʖ ͡º)

I will not deny this. I embrace it.

(Laura was removed, not just because I'm gay as hell, but because she may have usurped Juri as my least favorite female SF character, and that particular image of her is undeniably tragic.)

 

[HardRojo]

Looks like i'm learning a new Urien BnB tomorrow. AND ITS METERLESS!
https://twitter.com/AmbassadorFoxx/status/810868181162147840

Holy shit that looks great!
Edit: And scary if you're cornered by Urien!

 

[Farewell]

Wow, so birdie was so op in season 1 that he needed a nerf on basically every move he has.
And if that is not enough, also reduce his health.

Even if he also got small buffs it's still really strange.

I think capcom saw XYZZY doing good with birdie and thought nerfs were justified, logic. Also that buff on bad hammer proves my point.

 

[Shadoken]

I don't know what made infiltration say that statement. Maybe he hasn't seen Nash changes in detail like in the leakedBeta.

Nash's core tools are still intact ,albeit a slight nerf to M Sonic Scythe which is still just as effective at max range.

The main Nerf is to infiltrations play style so maybe that's why he felt that way, as seen by the tools and normals that are nerfed. However as SFV progressed, imo Bonchan showed the right way to play Nash and is currently the most successful and consistent NAsh player. His style of play should remain mostly unaffected. And he is definitely going to be very strong player when Season 2 starts. His solid way of playing Nash fits completely inline with Season 2 changes.

Even if Nash is not Top 10 anymore he will most definitely not drop below mid tier. His core zoning game with Sonic boom and footsies is just that strong.

Also I feel like the general balance changes across the board like less jumping and lesser damage,stun and throw loops greatly benefit Nash play style.

He gets more chances to play neutral than take some mixups and die.

 

[SneakersSO]

I don't know what made infiltration say that statement. Maybe he hasn't seen Nash changes in detail like in the leakedBeta.

Nash's core tools are still intact ,albeit a slight nerf to M Sonic Scythe which is still just as effective at max range.

The main Nerf is to infiltrations play style , as seen by the tools and normals that are nerfed. However as SFV progressed, imo Bonchan showed the right way to play Nash and is currently the most successful and consistent NAsh player. His style of play should remain mostly unaffected. And he is definitely going to be very strong player when Season 2 starts. His solid way of playing Nash fits completely inline with Season 2 changes.

Even if Nash is not Top 10 anymore he will most definitely not drop below mid tier. His core zoning game with Sonic boom and footsies is just that strong.

Also I feel like the general balance changes across the board like less jumping and lesser damage,stun and throw loops greatly benefit Nash play style.

My few of S1 was that, with a few notable exceptions on both end of the spectrums of the game's balance on its 22 characters, only a few were really bad/uphill challenges to secure wins against the rest of the cast (Juri, Gief) and only a few were truly outclassing the rest of the cast (Ryu, Chun). Outside of that, the game's balance was realy close to one another.

S2 looks like it has brought the cast even closer to one another in terms of balance (again, early days, but its just my impression from reading the S2 changes) while also giving characters tools they didn't have before.

 

[kirblar]

Nash is a new character in S2.

 

[spazchicken]

After reading Juri changes, I am adding her to my list of characters I am gonna put time into this year. Right now, Ibuki/Juri/Urien/Necalli are my list of must plays for the next 3 months. I am tentative on Bison & Alex right now - gonna wait and see how they shake out.

Also, for people who checked out that Urien combo I posted - check the last few posts on that guy's TL. He has some other silly Urien S2 combos in there.

Why did they take away her need to do a move to do other moves?

 

[SneakersSO]

https://twitter.com/AmbassadorFoxx/status/810878723985653760

This is probably one of the longest combos I have seen in SFV to date. Bravo, S2 Urien.

Why did they take away her need to do a move to do other moves?

Her v-skill changes are absolutely ridiculous. Its insanely good now.

 

[kirblar]

Mika's V-Skill damage got nerfed because the buff is permanent until used now. Getting hit no longer knocks it out of her.

 

[Shadoken]

Nash is a new character in S2.

Not for the people who played him mostly Zoning and footsie based in S1. With some passive aggressive offense thrown in.

For the ppl who just spammed Scythe and abused forward dash grabs. Yea they are gonna need to re learn him.

I played against both types of players today , am glad Capcom sorted out which play style is meant for him.

 

[KingBroly]

Mika's V-Skill damage got nerfed because the buff is permanent until used now. Getting hit no longer knocks it out of her.

Well, it was the worst in the game before. Now it's...the worst in the game BUT improved.


I think I might get Season 2 just so I can save up my precious Fight Monies, but I dunno. Still at 932k.

 

[Westlo]

I'm happy that Cammy remained mostly the same. Any nerfs she got were mostly universal system changes. Better AA and juggle opportunities cast and system wide hurt her, since she relies on her air mobility. Loss of invincibility on DP hurts. Also dive kicks slightly nerfed.

Hoping she has her air throw, as it would be nice to have. Regardless she's going to be very good.

Does not have air throw.

 

[KingBroly]

Does not have air throw.

What? I thought she got her air throw back?