GuileBootCamp
Member
Hmm. Just double checked and he doesn't. I must have misremembered something at some point.
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Street Fighter V |OTVI| The More I Know, The Worse I Play
- Thread starter Reizo Ryuu
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Hmm. Just double checked and he doesn't. I must have misremembered something at some point.
Phew, that would be scary.
Btw, got any advice from our sets? I really wanna make it to platinum soon, but I know I've got some major holes in my game that need to get fixed first.
GuileBootCamp
Member
I think reacting to the opponent jumping out of command grabs by hitting them with knee drops would go a long way, and not relying on stomp to get in so much.
Anyone else wanna play for a bit? I'll be on for around the next hour. CFN EdziPC
Yeah, definitely need to work on that. I'm bad at reacting to neutral jumps in general.
Yeah, definitely need to work on that. I'm bad at reacting to neutral jumps in general.
HanksB, you probably don't want to hear this, but you were literally the only Ibuki player who's ever had trouble with my Alex, but today you seem to be doing way better. You're actually playing like other Ibuki's and throwing out single pokes/frame traps instead of combos, overheads, lots of crossup dashes, and throwing a lot. I'm back to not knowing what to do against Ibuki lol
EDIT: GGs, you really forced me to slow down.
EDIT: GGs, you really forced me to slow down.
CountBlack
Member
Anyone wanna play?
You're airborne during backdashes, so air throws can catch you.
Pure_Phazon
Member
GGs. Yeah I was throwing out a lot of c.hp to try to catch dashes and the headbutt. I need to really work on my counter hit combos. Most of the time I land a counter hit mp I'll go straight into overhead, and while that does catch people often, I should be going for damage instead of resets most of the time.
Also learned on the fly that v-skill can catch his stomp, though I was still getting hit by it too often.
Stomp is pretty bad in general, I need to use it less often.
You started blowing all your EX on kunais after the first set when I think it was serving you better as a wakeup option.
Pure_Phazon
Member
Yeah my overuse of those is something I need to work on. It's just such a strong tool to create pressure, it'll cause me to go a bit autopilot sometimes.
It's a good tool, but it stopped working after the first few times so you were just wasting it, while I was getting free wakeup pressure since you didn't have any more meter.
Zombegoast
Member
Look at my inputs on the right:
It was a backdash. That's so dumb lol.
I've seen dumber. Like Ground DCM going through Dan's backdash in usf4.
You sure they weren't just lag switching?
GuileBootCamp
Member
Capcom nailed guile in SFV he strong, balanced and fun to fight against
Agreed 100% (the mirror's fun too)
Hopefully Capcom doesn't change much about him in future balance patches and focuses instead on bringing the weaker characters up.
Guile's risk/reward feels pretty well balanced for how the character is supposed to be played, and he's easily the most fun he's ever been. He doesn't have any single tool that is overly abusable, but he has next to no wasted buttons and his toolset synergizes really well.
I agree, Guile is unique, fun, and super good without feeling cheap. The other characters just need a lot of help to get to that level of balance.
Zombegoast
Member
TheSpoiler
Member
Capcom nailed guile in SFV he strong, balanced and fun to fight against
This is not true I am not having fun fighting him as Rog please remove this dude from the game.
TheSpoiler
Member
I feel like fighting games are going to get hit with this "every character should get buffs and not nerfs" nonsense that's been going around. That works for like a select few fighting games. It's like people get so conscious of nerfs that they'll drop characters and not allow them to breathe. I've been saying this, and Ryan Hart's speech is real good on pinpointing this problem, but looking at the whole picture rather than a bubble is a better way of approaching balance AND adding fun to the game.
I fear people aren't even going to try to find the fun stuff that characters have now. I saw a video of Ryu with some new tech, and I'm like "wow, so imagine if a player reworked his gameplan to add the parry in and just try and get more v-gauge going in general, he'll get these new tools", but others are hell bent on dropping their character on reaction. It's kinda always been like that, but kneejerks have gotten worse due to social media and the like.
That isn't to say SFV's system is currently correct or not. It's just that people really need to say "alright, what about this move versus other characters"? It takes a lot of time, but I feel like it's not always going to be openly fun in fighting games, much less for certain characters, to find viable cool toolsets.
Edit: On the flipside of things, it'd be nice if the v-stuff got better in terms of straight fun. That's still the avenue they are headed in, and probably the best way with the way SFV works, but some characters aren't getting enough work in that department, or some get fucked over because of the grey life system (GIEF).
I fear people aren't even going to try to find the fun stuff that characters have now. I saw a video of Ryu with some new tech, and I'm like "wow, so imagine if a player reworked his gameplan to add the parry in and just try and get more v-gauge going in general, he'll get these new tools", but others are hell bent on dropping their character on reaction. It's kinda always been like that, but kneejerks have gotten worse due to social media and the like.
That isn't to say SFV's system is currently correct or not. It's just that people really need to say "alright, what about this move versus other characters"? It takes a lot of time, but I feel like it's not always going to be openly fun in fighting games, much less for certain characters, to find viable cool toolsets.
Edit: On the flipside of things, it'd be nice if the v-stuff got better in terms of straight fun. That's still the avenue they are headed in, and probably the best way with the way SFV works, but some characters aren't getting enough work in that department, or some get fucked over because of the grey life system (GIEF).
Bison is pretty fun to watch. Hoping to see more of him at tournaments in S2.
EDIT:
Is it just me, or is all of the SFII cast in SFV now really good? Guile is good, Balrog looks amazing, Bison seems viable now, Gief seems viable now, Chun is still amazing, Cammy is maybe even better, Ryu is still good... Vega seems to be viable now, Akuma seems to be good.
Professor Beef
Banned
Yep, my sub expired today too. Not gonna renew until the weekend since I'm heading to CA for the month to visit family, and I wanna check how the internet is at my mom's place before I renew.
Sadly, Bison will be eliminated by any grappler (especially Laura), and we're going to see a lot more Laura's.
Might see him as a backup, though.
Karsticles
Member
Bison doesn't lose to Gief.
SolarPowered
Member
His V-Skill and V-Trigger in particular fit so well in his moveset that you'd think he's had those moves since SF2 or the Alpha days. He makes Alex and Ibuki's corresponding V-skills and Triggers look like complete nonsense pulled out of nowhere (although I admit that I like his sledgehammer even if only for it's combo extension purposes).
You think so? I think he definitely does.
"God's Beard!"
Member
So upside-down kick links off of a counterhit jump-in which is interesting. I wonder if I can do the sonic boom into dfRH combo, haven't tested it but it would just under 400 damage meterless. Even this combo does 333.
KidA Seven
Member
Nah, people really do feel like their character is no longer fun.
In fact, everyone was in favor of balancing the game by giving characters buffs rather than nerfs before release. Capcom themselves told everyone that was how they would balance the game and everyone was in agreement with Capcom.
Didnt they say something about this back in July. They just ignored us after that.
lucebuce12
Member
one step forward, two steps back.
Capcom's mission statement.
Professor Beef
Banned
Thought he was talking about FANG's footsies procedure ayyyy
LincolnTunnel
Member
I actually really like Alex's V-Trigger, but I think his V-Skill is definitely terrible nonsense. It's not very good, but even worse, it's boring. It's just uninspired. I don't even know how you could make it more interesting without just replacing it.
They probably think you're lag switching.
I see what you did.
Yeah the "buff everything, nerf nothing" mentality never works out in practical application.
There have been games that tried to do this ie. buff, not nerf. What happens is that the game starts power creeping to new heights and eventually it becomes unrecognizable from where it started. So even though you retain some people who are allergic to nerfs, you lose other people who feel robbed of the identity of the game.
Like the end game of buffing everyone in SFV is that the game turns into Marvel. Some people may like that but people who like SF and specifically SFV will not like it at all and understandably so.
There have been games that tried to do this ie. buff, not nerf. What happens is that the game starts power creeping to new heights and eventually it becomes unrecognizable from where it started. So even though you retain some people who are allergic to nerfs, you lose other people who feel robbed of the identity of the game.
Like the end game of buffing everyone in SFV is that the game turns into Marvel. Some people may like that but people who like SF and specifically SFV will not like it at all and understandably so.
OmegaTreeFish
Banned
thought I would give my first char I enjoyed in this game way back when it came out another go (mika) now she has been changed.
Go in training mode for like 2 hours. She actually has tons of fun stuff still. once her v-trigger is up she has some great fun combos she can pull off for super high damage. Worked out her frame traps, BnBs, what to do when in a corner, best way to corner carry. Go online...... Same as with Akuma. Brain turns to Jelly and I pull of absoultely nothing correctly lol. Still beat one silver Ryu but I dont even want to watch the replay I was playing so bad haha.
Part of me wants to give her more time as she is certainly fun and this happens with every character you arnt used to but there was something about Guile and to a lesser extent Laura where I felt instantly comfortable playing them and found it way less of a struggle to engrain their moveset into my subconscious so I can concentrate on what my opponent is doing rather than how to do what move.
Maybe trying to learn more than 2 characters is just straight up a bad idea.
I also bought Mikas costumes simply because I like to use her in training mode at the very least and I found a version of her wings outfit that I actually like. The white one. The last dark one is also OK. The others just give me a migrain due to the colour schemes.
Will be interesting to see how Mika actually does this season because she still seems perfectly good to me. They basically just removed the braindeadness of throwing claps out there that led to corner carry and huge damage. Gotta play a bit smarter now.
Go in training mode for like 2 hours. She actually has tons of fun stuff still. once her v-trigger is up she has some great fun combos she can pull off for super high damage. Worked out her frame traps, BnBs, what to do when in a corner, best way to corner carry. Go online...... Same as with Akuma. Brain turns to Jelly and I pull of absoultely nothing correctly lol. Still beat one silver Ryu but I dont even want to watch the replay I was playing so bad haha.
Part of me wants to give her more time as she is certainly fun and this happens with every character you arnt used to but there was something about Guile and to a lesser extent Laura where I felt instantly comfortable playing them and found it way less of a struggle to engrain their moveset into my subconscious so I can concentrate on what my opponent is doing rather than how to do what move.
Maybe trying to learn more than 2 characters is just straight up a bad idea.
I also bought Mikas costumes simply because I like to use her in training mode at the very least and I found a version of her wings outfit that I actually like. The white one. The last dark one is also OK. The others just give me a migrain due to the colour schemes.
Will be interesting to see how Mika actually does this season because she still seems perfectly good to me. They basically just removed the braindeadness of throwing claps out there that led to corner carry and huge damage. Gotta play a bit smarter now.
SolarPowered
Member
He needs a second V-skill. From the beginning it should have been either something like Beowulf's (skullgirls) grab mechanic that allows him to use the V-skill to transition to any number of grabs or it should have been something that makes all flash chops and slash elbows have the same property as heavy flash chop. It is stupid unlikely that you'd get a back drop on someone without stunning them or using sledgehammer, so it would have been a welcome change. His V-Trigger should have been buffed similarly too. EX Headbutt should do more stun/multiple headbutts like 3S stun gun and EX back drop should be his 3S back hyper bomb with 3-5 back drops and slightly more damage while in v-trigger. Some characters already get new moves or buffed specials from their V-Trigger anyways. There is a precedent. But I guess Capcom just had to concentrate on giving Necalli new tools because he was struggling so much in season 1. I barely saw him at tournaments after all.
/salt
Imperfected
Member
"Buffs only" balancing was mostly a response to classic Blizzard balancing (which was some of the earliest live-patching and thus the standard for a long time), wherein the common response to something being too good was to nerf it to the point where it was completely unplayable in a balance patch.
"Buffs only" basically maintained that instead of making existing things unplayable, you should try to make other things good, too.
The obvious solution is just to do things in smaller and more conservative increments (both nerfs and buffs) rather than going nuclear on shit, but there are various reasons why developers do not tend toward that approach.
KidA Seven
Member
I can understand thinking about that in general, but not with SFV. Buffing the other characters won't turn SFV into some unrecognizable mess. And characters don't need to keep getting buffed every update.
How viable is using st.HP xx H Flash Chop a lot in neutral and confirming into back drop when you see a counter hit during st.HP? This worked fine for me when I tried Alex back then(around his launch ;p), it's negative on block but not much can punish it. And I've seen Problem X use it a lot too.
UcchedavÄda
Member
Capcom never promised that they wouldn't nerf characters, but rather they they wouldn't "greatly" nerf characters. With the exception of Nash (and maybe Mika), who got hit hard with the nerf stick, that seems to be in line with what they've done for Season 2.
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