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[TheSpoiler]

I think he makes some very solid points. But the part where he mentions newbies from Season 1 not liking Season 2; might he be specifically talking about the Korean community? I might have missed it but I don't recall seeing people making that specific complaint en masse.

Maybe. I wonder if it's their community or just from the people he's spoke to.

I am not sure how Capcom are catering to casuals. There is no arcade mode or a library mode for lores for example.

The game being dumb down to cater to casuals means less depth gameplay for the pros but the game doesnt have enough contents for the casual. This game seems to have an identity crisis. Its like pick one or the other or do both.

I am a nobody and a scrub at this game but I think if they make the game good with depth and good play mechanic and stuff, pro players would be satisfied and casuals wouldn't know the difference in good gameplay anyways if they have rich contents like an arcade mode, a proper tutorial,etc to keep them busy.

I think he was talking about things like nerfing the DPs and such.

I agree. You dont cater to casuals by removing the panic button from the characters most commonly used by casuals.

I dont even get why its considered so huge when only 4 characters had them in the first place. It still exists anyway but you need meter.

He didnt even mention mika in the nerf section lol.

He didn't mention in the Urien section either!

Overall, it's still good to get input from everyone, but hopefully this doesn't get championed around as a SFV SUX thing.

Which it will

Brb making a topic on the Gaming side.

 

[New002]

Infil's points about casuals and season 2 make no sense, sorry.

This balance patch is clearly aimed at tournament play. And those players always had to adapt to changing versions of Street Fighter. He might not like the changes, but it's got nothing to do with catering to casuals.

Yeah I mean the idea that Capcom is making balance changes to appeal to casuals sounds silly to me given their focus so far. They would be putting the cart before the horse (I.e. making balance changes before introducing modes and content that would actually attract casuals). Yeah I'm not buying that.

He's welcome to his opinion and I respect that, but I disagree about the changes being for casuals and I think he's getting a little carried away speaking for the masses saying that all these people that played through S1 are really disliking S2. But maybe I'm wrong? It doesn't feel like that's the case though. I get the impression he's upset about Nash getting nerfed hard and maybe that's partially coloring his view on things. Total speculation ofc...just my impression.

 

[RK9039]

'Swallow your pride and go with a top-tier (character)'. So true.

100% right about Akuma nostalgia costume.

 

[VariantX]

New vid about S2 and Infiltration.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWJmnaHfvaI

I see some of his points. I don't know if I agree with the other pro players not liking S2 all that much or sticking with their characters since most seem to enjoy the changes, salty Rog not withstanding. But he does have a point about catering too much to the casual audience in some places.

Interesting video all around though.

I'm not following his complaint about S2 changes to shoryukens. One of the marks of a new player or casual player is their tendency to wakeup shoryu or super after getting knocked down after being pressured for a bit. They don't want to lose the damage race and want to turn it around immediately. Its also super satisfying as hell to hit one up close rather than just catching them with the tip of your fist

 

[Vice]

I agree. You dont cater to casuals by removing the panic button from the characters most commonly used by casuals.

I dont even get why its considered so huge when only 4 characters had them in the first place. It still exists anyway but you need meter.

He didnt even mention mika in the nerf section lol.

Edit. Lets not forget new players arnt meatying people on wake up with perfect timing meaning wake up dp still works.

From a competitive standpoint characters with meterless reversals end up dominating play after a certain level because they halt pressure and even with their risks the opponent will always have to think about them. Most people agreed the characters with meterless invincible reversals were at the top of the tier list.
They also wreck certain playstyle so by nerfing them it gives a buff to grapplers especially who outside of Mika were all considered mid-tier and lower.

 

[TheSpoiler]

I'm not following his complaint about S2 changes to shoryukens. One of the marks of a new player or casual player is their tendency to wakeup shoryu or super after getting knocked down after being pressured for a bit. They don't want to lose the damage race and want to turn it around immediately. Its also super satisfying as hell to hit one up close rather than just catching them with the tip of your fist

Damn I guess that's right.

It's too late though, SFV is dead.

My Twitter says it's dead.

 

[hey_it's_that_dog]

Until now.

The most I faced in Rank are

Urien
Juri
Zangief
Balrog
Birdie
Laura

I faced more Nash players than Ryu.

I'm not going to explain how statistical sampling works but I will summarize by saying your experience of matchup frequencies is unlikely to be closely representative of everyone else's

 

[Edzi]

I'm not following his complaint about S2 changes to shoryukens. One of the marks of a new player or casual player is their tendency to wakeup shoryu or super after getting knocked down after being pressured for a bit. They don't want to lose the damage race and want to turn it around immediately. Its also super satisfying as hell to hit one up close rather than just catching them with the tip of your fist

It's also frustrating to be a beginner and be on the receiving end of a bunch of random shoryukens after block strings/wakeup, which might be what he was referring to.

 

[mnz]

Yeah so any change is frustrating for the one receiving the hit. No shit.

 

[Edzi]

Yeah so any change is frustrating for the one receiving the hit. No shit.

You're being intentionally dense if you think getting hit by normals feels the same to a beginner then getting hit by random shoryus. There's a reason why flowchart Ken was a meme for so long.

 

[New002]

In a weird way I kinda miss the shoto army post-DP nerf, I had way more easy wins from baiting out DPs than I do getting poked out by Urien players.

Empty jump-in after knock down, block DP, crush counter, woooooo!

 

[mnz]

You're being intentionally dense if you think getting hit by normals feels the same to a beginner then getting hit by random shoryus. There's a reason why flowchart Ken was a meme for so long.

Beginners are known for mashing uppercuts, not receiving them. You can turn this argument around all you want.

 

[Edzi]

Beginners are known for mashing uppercuts, not receiving them. You can turn this argument around all you want.

I'm not trying to turn around any arguments, just saying that that's what infil could be referring to when he says their removal could be to cater to beginners/casuals.

 

[GordonHalfman]

Perhaps by casuals he didn't mean beginners.

 

[ElFly]

In a weird way I kinda miss the shoto army post-DP nerf, I had way more easy wins from baiting out DPs than I do getting poked out by Urien players.

Akuma replacing Ryu and Ken army has given me many many wins

At first I thought it was just zangief having an advantage over Akuma, but looking at v League it seems either nobody plays a good Akuma, or the character is just bad

Edit : although v League is telling me zangief has an overall 2:8 right now so maybe they are having technical trouble

Or maybe zangief should receive an emergency buff, Capcom pls

Edit 2: it seems the mobile site is weird? Buff zangief anyway

 

[Edzi]

Perhaps by casuals he didn't mean beginners.

I think it could apply to both though.

 

[mbpm1]

I can only find Urien, Akuma, Laura, Balrog, and Ryu online in random most of the time now.

Damn the armies

 

[Producer]

Infil speaking facts. Sfv sucks

 

[Ucchedavāda]

Akuma replacing Ryu and Ken army has given me many many wins

At first I thought it was just zangief having an advantage over Akuma, but looking at v League it seems either nobody plays a good Akuma, or the character is just bad

It's only been a couple of weeks for Akuma, so the results are probably skewed by all the people trying to learn him.

 

[mbpm1]

Yeah, nobody is playing Akuma the right way yet

 

[TheSpoiler]

Infil speaking facts. Sfv sucks

True.

See me in Breakers Revenge.

 

[hey_it's_that_dog]

Yeah, nobody is playing Akuma the right way yet

The Akumas I fight are either fumbling around or have mastered combos and meaties, not much in between.

 

[Edzi]

I don't think Akuma is going to get much play in big tournaments. He's just too fragile in a game that's so offense oriented, so I don't see him getting consistent results. He seems better suited to be someones backup/secondary character.

 

[Nemesis121]

Infil talking about swallowing your price and choosing top tier...

Might be doing that soon..

 

[Marvel]

My Akuma is garbage but at least I got the 16 hit combos down lol.

Priorities I got em!

 

[Producer]

True.

See me in Breakers Revenge.

see me in ps3 kof13 online. My king dawg

 

[Zombegoast]

SFV is about getting rid of fundamental. Meanwhile you have fucking Urien who can random tackle beating any button that comes out unless your extremely lucky


At this point im performing in KI a hell of a lot better than in SFV.

 

[Cepheus]

Half of the Akumas I've faced online, as soon as they activate their V-Trigger, try and fail to activate the Raging Demon over and over for the rest of the round, completely stopping trying to do anything else even if it isn't safe which results in a win for me.

The other half don't do that and body me.

 

[mnz]

Yeah I only played one good Akuma so far. All the others had real problems getting in or getting anything started. Can't imagine many will stick with him. He's almost like Zangief in a way.

 

[CountBlack]

I been saying since the betas that SFV is kinda ass but ¯\_(&#12484_/¯

 

[TheSpoiler]

I don't think Akuma is going to get much play in big tournaments. He's just too fragile in a game that's so offense oriented, so I don't see him getting consistent results. He seems better suited to be someones backup/secondary character.

Both Guile and Chun are pretty fragile, as is Cammy. Because the game is offensive oriented (well, mostly, I'd argue it's about knowing when to switch offensive to defensive on a dime while mitigating risks, of that point is why the game seems offense based), Akuma shines, but he has to take it if he fucks up. Unlike in 4, he just can't be in situations, and that's pretty bog standard for SFV in general.

see me in ps3 kof13 online. My king dawg

That's not how you spell Ball Breakers fam I'll body you.

SFV is about getting rid of fundamental. Meanwhile you have fucking Urien who can random tackle beating any button that comes out unless your extremely lucky


At this point im performing in KI a hell of a lot better than in SFV.

Bye.

See you in a few weeks once you find something to blame the game about.

 

[Gr1mLock]

I been saying since the betas that SFV is kinda ass but ¯\_(&#12484_/¯

Why did no one else buy Darkstalkers?

 

[MikeBreezy92]

From a competitive standpoint characters with meterless reversals end up dominating play after a certain level because they halt pressure and even with their risks the opponent will always have to think about them. Most people agreed the characters with meterless invincible reversals were at the top of the tier list.
They also wreck certain playstyle so by nerfing them it gives a buff to grapplers especially who outside of Mika were all considered mid-tier and lower.

Halting pressure is kinda the idea behind meterless reversals, the catch is that if you bait them, there was this crush counter mechanic that Makes them more dangerous to toss out. They already had a decent check now. The top tier in SFV was top tier because they had those tools plus the actual meat of the character.

 

[mnz]

The negativity surrounding the game is pretty exhausting, but what's funny is that these weekly challenges are totally working on me. That's why I haven't really taken a long break from the game yet. I want to keep it installed in Steam because of them and I check in regularly to get the FM and then I'm playing again.

 

[Zombegoast]

Bye.

See you in a few weeks once you find something to blame the game about.

Pretty hard to find any complaint when the netcode is good. But when I do, maybe you can make it into Silver Rank

 

[mbpm1]

Akuma is fragile, but you get used to it. He'll be okay in tournaments.

 

[TheSpoiler]

The negativity is pretty exhausting, but what's funny is that these weekly challenges are totally working on me. That's why I haven't really taken a long break from the game yet. I want to keep it installed in Steam because of them and I check in regularly to get the FM and then I'm playing again.

I don't know why y'all let it get to you. After a while you just kinda tune it out and play what you like.

Same thing happened with KOF's graphics, and the same thing will happen when Tekken launches and people start bitching about rage moves and juggles.

Let that shit just slide right off.

Pretty hard to find any complaint when the netcode is good. But when I do, maybe you can make it into Silver Rank

I'd much rather be ass at the game and able to improve than good but stuck at a level because I refuse to improve myself.

But hey man, do you!

Edit: Wait, your original complaint was about fundies lacking in SFV and now it's back to the netcode? ZG you playin' too many OSes here.

 

[Hellshingu]

Why did no one else buy Darkstalkers?

I bought 2.

SF is ass
VS is ass
MK is ass
Injustass is ass
KI is ass
KoF is ass
Garou is ass
SamSho is ass
Art of Fighting is ass
Last Blade is ass
Gundam VS is ass
Tekken is ass
SC is ass
BR is ass
Melty is ass
UNIEL is ass
BB is ass
GG is ass
Arcana Heart is ass
Chaos Code is ass
Yatagarasu is ass
Marvel is ass
VS series is ass
Tobal is ass
DoA is ass (literally)
DBZ is ass
Powerstone is ass
Rival School is ass
VF is ass
X-Men Mutant Academy series is ass

FGs are ass

I missed plenty of series but you get the picture. Hopefully I covered everything.

 

[mnz]

I mean it gets to me, because it's not wrong. The game has many problems. And I follow the scene. Not easy to avoid lol

 

[Moaradin]

SFV is about getting rid of fundamental. Meanwhile you have fucking Urien who can random tackle beating any button that comes out unless your extremely lucky


At this point im performing in KI a hell of a lot better than in SFV.

Yeah, those random tackles that are -5 on block.

 

[mbpm1]

Daigo actually mentioned an analogy on his stream recently re: the SFV hate and the communal effect. It was a kind of funny story about how he looked up Yelp reviews for his favorite restaurant and they were pretty awful. He was like "what? this place is great." Apparently the reviews were in relation to how popular the place was, i.e. "It was hyped to be so good but it's nothing special".

He was like "that's bs" and kept going but after a while he started feeling the complaints. Now he doesn't like the restaurant so much anymore.

 

[Gr1mLock]

I bought 2.

SF is ass
VS is ass
MK is ass
Injustass is ass
KI is ass
KoF is ass
Garou is ass
SamSho is ass
Art of Fighting is ass
Last Blade is ass
Gundam VS is ass
Tekken is ass
SC is ass
BR is ass
Melty is ass
UNIEL is ass
BB is ass
GG is ass
Arcana Heart is ass
Chaos Code is ass
Yatagarasu is ass
Marvel is ass
VS series is ass
Tobal is ass
DoA is ass (literally)
DBZ is ass
Powerstone is ass
Rival School is ass
VF is ass

FGs are ass

I missed plenty of series but you get the picture. Hopefully I covered everything.

Fairly comprehensive.

 

[mbpm1]

I bought 2.

SF is ass
VS is ass
MK is ass
Injustass is ass
KI is ass
KoF is ass
Garou is ass
SamSho is ass
Art of Fighting is ass
Last Blade is ass
Gundam VS is ass
Tekken is ass
SC is ass
BR is ass
Melty is ass
UNIEL is ass
BB is ass
GG is ass
Arcana Heart is ass
Chaos Code is ass
Yatagarasu is ass
Marvel is ass
VS series is ass
Tobal is ass
DoA is ass (literally)
DBZ is ass
Powerstone is ass
Rival School is ass
VF is ass

FGs are ass

I missed plenty of series but you get the picture. Hopefully I covered everything.

Don't see X-men Next Dimension on there so it's safe at least

 

[Hellshingu]

Don't see X-men Next Dimension on there so it's safe at least

I'll add the mutant academy series to the list

Although my FGs are ass at the bottom covers everything I didnt want to type.

 

[TheSpoiler]

I mean it gets to me, because it's not wrong. The game has many problems. And I follow the scene. Not easy to avoid lol

The things that get me the most are the missing pieces of content, QoL things we still don't have, netcode improvements, weird ways of handling the DLC characters, and the real dumb silence they have on stuff coming up (like, can we get a list of CPT events nailed down, please Capcom?). Just as I engage people when they talk about how much they like the gameplay, I still discuss all the missing and bad pieces as well.

It's probably easy for me because while everything around the game was rancid (and to a point, still is), but the gameplay is so great that I just don't mind too much. And Capcom is working, ever so slowly, to correct shit.

What is tiresome is watching people complain about parts of the game that aren't actually broken. This character being too overpowered, why didn't jabs get nerfed, etc etc. But, that's how it has always been, just magnified because we have bigger social media networks and more people are playing overall, so you get more rkappa postings all over the net.

If KOF was bigger than SFV, you'd see the same shitposts but different styles regarding the gameplay department. "Oh that Ramon punch "infinite" that's so cheap how could they release the game fucking ShitNK"

Daigo actually mentioned an analogy on his stream recently re: the SFV hate and the communal effect. It was a kind of funny story about how he looked up Yelp reviews for his favorite restaurant and they were pretty awful. He was like "what? this place is great." Apparently the reviews were in relation to how popular the place was, i.e. "It was hyped to be so good but it's nothing special".

He was like "that's bs" and kept going but after a while he started feeling the complaints. Now he doesn't like the restaurant so much anymore.

Yeah pretty much. Wish people would spend less time hating on a game they don't have to play and more time supporting the ones that do. I see dudes on Twitter saying SFV SUX but I don't see them trying to further the BB/GG/KOF/Tekken communities nearly as much.

 

[mnz]

Daigo actually mentioned an analogy on his stream recently re: the SFV hate and the communal effect. It was a kind of funny story about how he looked up Yelp reviews for his favorite restaurant and they were pretty awful. He was like "what? this place is great." Apparently the reviews were in relation to how popular the place was, i.e. "It was hyped to be so good but it's nothing special".

He was like "that's bs" and kept going but after a while he started feeling the complaints. Now he doesn't like the restaurant so much anymore.

Yeah that analogy was genius.

 

[mbpm1]

Part of it is just that the community is bigger and older.

We expect more after 8 years of SF4

going backwards feelsbadman

 

[Zombegoast]

Yeah, those random tackles that are -5 on block.

Just like Mika's Cr.HP that becomes + at max range.

 

[Moaradin]

Just like Mika's Cr.HP that becomes + at max range.

Except it's still not Urien's turn even if it's max range. You can still press a button.

 

[ScraftyDevil]

Just like Mika's Cr.HP that becomes + at max range.