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Street Fighter V |OTVI| The More I Know, The Worse I Play

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L

lucebuce12

Member
FluxWaveZ said:
Heads up: Laura's cr.MP xx V-Skill forward is not -3; feels like it might be -1 or something.

Just tested with st.HP and it's -5. If it's a universal thing, that must mean that a normal cancelled into her V-Skill gives -3 to her advantage.
Click to expand...
Can't manually try it right now but just judging from the frame data then a cr.mp into forward dash vskill should be -4.
St.hp cancel is -5 as you said.

And it's not universal, just like Kens vskill cancel. How plus or minus it is depends on the recovery and block/hitstun of the normal that it was cancelled into.
 
K

KidA Seven

Member
mnz said:
Infil's points about casuals and season 2 make no sense, sorry.

This balance patch is clearly aimed at tournament play. And those players always had to adapt to changing versions of Street Fighter. He might not like the changes, but it's got nothing to do with catering to casuals.
Click to expand...

OmegaTreeFish said:
I agree. You dont cater to casuals by removing the panic button from the characters most commonly used by casuals.

I dont even get why its considered so huge when only 4 characters had them in the first place. It still exists anyway but you need meter.

He didnt even mention mika in the nerf section lol.

Edit. Lets not forget new players arnt meatying people on wake up with perfect timing meaning wake up dp still works.
Click to expand...

I think he meant that by removing the wake up shoryuken, you have much less to think about when scoring a knockdown. So in that sense, attacking is easier. But you guys are also right that a srk is a panic option for a lot of beginners. It goes both ways.

mooncakes said:
I am not sure how Capcom are catering to casuals. There is no arcade mode or a library mode for lores for example.

The game being dumb down to cater to casuals means less depth gameplay for the pros but the game doesnt have enough contents for the casual. This game seems to have an identity crisis. Its like pick one or the other or do both.

I am a nobody and a scrub at this game but I think if they make the game good with depth and good play mechanic and stuff, pro players would be satisfied and casuals wouldn't know the difference in good gameplay anyways if they have rich contents like an arcade mode, a proper tutorial,etc to keep them busy.
Click to expand...

Capcom could be catering to casuals, but also be failing to cater to casuals. It comes down to intention and execution. Their intention was to cater to casuals by making execution easier, making fireballs less effective, making walk speeds slower, and making jumping more effective. However, as you pointed out, their execution of it was horrible. If they truly wanted to cater to casuals, the tutorial mode should be much better. There should be more single player content for casuals to enjoy.

The same goes for the esports side of things. They intended to cater to esports, but at the same time fail to make CFN be a capcom pro tour hub. When they first announced CFN I was hugely excited about the potential to inform new players about the scene. A capcom pro tour leaderboard being easily accessible from the main menu would inform new players that there is competitive street fighter. The main menu notifying users that a premier tournament is currently happening on their capcom twitch channel would be beneficial. As would including the top 5 plays from the premier tournaments showcasing the hype or notifying users of capcom pro talk which was hugely entertaining. I mentioned all of these things when cfn was first announced and I thought it was completely obvious that that is what they should be doing. It didn't happen though.

Of course there are positives that can be taken from their attempt at esports like the money, replay system, and dlc model which doesn't split the playerbase. It's just overall disappointing that the game could be so much more.

You are right that they have an identity crisis. Hopefully things become better because SF is my favorite series in gaming and my favorite scene to follow. I see marvel players getting excited, but I won't lie if I'm not a bit salty that marvel might thrive (from learning from their mistakes) at the expense of SF. Never really cared for Marvel so I'm not really all that hype for the game.
 
S

Shackzam

Member
FluxWaveZ said:
Heads up: Laura's cr.MP xx V-Skill forward is not -3; feels like it might be -1 or something.

Just tested with st.HP and it's -5. If it's a universal thing, that must mean that a normal cancelled into her V-Skill gives -3 to her advantage.
Click to expand...

When I was testing it I was able to hit her with balrogs st.lp, but I might have to do labbing. It's also weird when you have to hit her because if you do it early it'll eat you input. So it's weird to know when you should throw out the button. Even if I'm still wrong there's still a gap to stop her pressure atleast. But I'll test it more out to double check later.
 
F

FluxWaveZ

Member
lucebuce12 said:
Can't manually try it right now but just judging from the frame data then a cr.mp into forward dash vskill should be -4.
St.hp cancel is -5 as you said.

And it's not universal, just like Kens vskill cancel. How plus or minus it is depends on the recovery and block/hitstun of the normal that it was cancelled into.
Click to expand...

I don't think cr.MP xx V-Skill forward can be -4. Proof: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMwLyzRU6Cg

But here's the weird thing: I thought it should be -4 if she then proceeds to do st.LP, and I've not been sloppy while testing her V-Skill cancel forward into just blocking (tried the st.HP xx V-Skill forward > block multiple times against Guile's st.MP, and he couldn't punish it, while I could with Mika's st.MP, plus similar tests for the cr.MP).

But if I do the following with Laura: cr.MP xx V-Skill forward > st.LP, I can beat it even with Mika's st.MP. And the st.LP doesn't even trade. I'm not sure I understand this.

Also, it seems that if she does st.HP or cr.MP into a V-Skill backwards cancel, she's at least -5. If it's not universal, a chart would definitely be good.
 
F

FluxWaveZ

Member
CountBlack said:
you can find all this laura frame data on FAT or tool assisted
Click to expand...

Where? The only thing written for "linear movement avante" in FAT is that it has 21 frames of recovery, and I've never been able to parse Tool Assisted, though Laura's data hasn't been updated for season 2.
 
C

CountBlack

Member
FluxWaveZ said:
Where? The only thing written for "linear movement avante" in FAT is that it has 21 frames of recovery, and I've never been able to parse Tool Assisted, though Laura's data hasn't been updated for season 2.
Click to expand...

on the prima guide app it has all her normals on block and hit v-skill cancelled data. I think only her st.HP changed on V-Skill cancel in s2
 
L

lucebuce12

Member
FluxWaveZ said:
I don't think cr.MP xx V-Skill forward can be -4. Proof: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMwLyzRU6Cg

But here's the weird thing: I thought it should be -4 if she then proceeds to do st.LP, and I've not been sloppy while testing her V-Skill cancel forward into just blocking (tried the st.HP xx V-Skill forward > block multiple times against Guile's st.MP, and he couldn't punish it, while I could with Mika's st.MP, plus similar tests for the cr.MP).

But if I do the following with Laura: cr.MP xx V-Skill forward > st.LP, I can beat it even with Mika's st.MP. And the st.LP doesn't even trade. I'm not sure I understand this.

Also, it seems that if she does st.HP or cr.MP into a V-Skill backwards cancel, she's at least -5. If it's not universal, a chart would definitely be good.
Click to expand...
That's.. odd.

Try playing as Laura and putting Mika on the training dummy, put a guard recovery option to do a reversal cr.lp, and do the cr.mp cancel into v-skill yourself?

Edit: just tried it and you're right. It's -2 oB from the St.mp
 
M

mnz

Unconfirmed Member
Onemic said:
It seems like they removed the RQ system entirely? I havent seen the good and bad player icons since the first week and I had someone RQ on me the moment I won the match and I received no points. I have a feeling he didnt get deducted any points either.
Click to expand...
Those RQ icons are gone yeah. And no word about it so far. Only lasted a few days, I think.
 
M

Mœbius

Member
TheSpoiler said:
New vid about S2 and Infiltration.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWJmnaHfvaI

I see some of his points. I don't know if I agree with the other pro players not liking S2 all that much or sticking with their characters since most seem to enjoy the changes, salty Rog not withstanding. But he does have a point about catering too much to the casual audience in some places.

Interesting video all around though.
Click to expand...
Interesting video indeed; can't say I agree with everything but definitely with him on Akuma; have spent the past month using him and the design is just all wrong for me (or coming at it from a different angle, SFV and its mechanics are all wrong for Akuma).

Aesthetic design aside, the core design ethos and philosophy of Akuma has always been that he's fast and fun to play and good in all situations, sacrificing health in return for those options and damage output. This version of Akuma has the stun and damage output, and the low health, but he has completely lost his neutral game and ability to get things started. He feels sluggish and slow, unable to move in and out nimbly and handle different situations. His only situation now is being patient and fishing for counters, it's almost like he's a grappler in terms of his approach and patience, it's just completely unlike Akuma and in an offence-oriented game and with low health and high grey damage it makes no sense and feels too inconsistent. It's not really that he's low (or high) tier - it's not about him being good or bad, it's too early to tell - my issue is about his design not being fun to play and his options being too limited. As mentioned in the vid he feels more like Oni; I know some do like that more hard-hitting, deliberate style and the animations that come with that; but it's just not an enjoyable, flowing style and not true to the heritage and design of the character. I'm not against having a different interpretation of a character if they stay true to the core philosophy and style (Ken in SFV is a good example of doing this right).
 
K

KidA Seven

Member
Daigo's Donation Colosseum should start in 3 hours.

9pm JST
4 am Pacific
7 am eastern
12 pm UK

Challenger: Crusher birdie
Hunter: Moke rashid

Challenger wins: Has 2 options
1. Take the $50 and walk away
2. Put it all on the line against the next Hunter for $100 where he'll have the same options (walk away or play for more money) again

Hunter wins: Becomes challenger so is now able to win money

Next Hunter in line: Iwate boxer

The challenger ladder
1. Hunter for $50
2. Hunter for $100
3. Hunter for $300
4. Fuudo for $1000
5. Daigo for all the donation money (currently at $8k and rising)

How to become a hunter? Win a 25k+LP 8 man online tournament on BeasTV

twitch.tv/daigothebeastv
 
H

Hyun Sai

Member
mnz said:
Here are the official usage stats for december:
http://game.capcom.com/cfn/sfv/stats/usagerate
Click to expand...

No surprise about the Shoto Trinity. Zangief and Laura going strong !

TheSpoiler said:
New vid about S2 and Infiltration.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWJmnaHfvaI

I see some of his points. I don't know if I agree with the other pro players not liking S2 all that much or sticking with their characters since most seem to enjoy the changes, salty Rog not withstanding. But he does have a point about catering too much to the casual audience in some places.

Interesting video all around though.
Click to expand...

Interesting, but like he said, he is a "fanboy", so he will keep playing it whatever they do, so why would they do anything ^^.
 
K

killu4what

Member
I'm seeing more and more that people base how good the game is on their personal success. And that ALL pro players complain that their character isn't good enough.
 
C

Csr

Member
Mœbius;228134532 said:
Interesting video indeed; can't say I agree with everything but definitely with him on Akuma; have spent the past month using him and the design is just all wrong for me (or coming at it from a different angle, SFV and its mechanics are all wrong for Akuma).

Aesthetic design aside, the core design ethos and philosophy of Akuma has always been that he's fast and fun to play and good in all situations, sacrificing health in return for those options and damage output. This version of Akuma has the stun and damage output, and the low health, but he has completely lost his neutral game and ability to get things started. He feels sluggish and slow, unable to move in and out nimbly and handle different situations. His only situation now is being patient and fishing for counters, it's almost like he's a grappler in terms of his approach and patience, it's just completely unlike Akuma and in an offence-oriented game and with low health and high grey damage it makes no sense and feels too inconsistent. It's not really that he's low (or high) tier - it's not about him being good or bad, it's too early to tell - my issue is about his design not being fun to play and his options being too limited. As mentioned in the vid he feels more like Oni; I know some do like that more hard-hitting, deliberate style and the animations that come with that; but it's just not an enjoyable, flowing style and not true to the heritage and design of the character. I'm not against having a different interpretation of a character if they stay true to the core philosophy and style (Ken in SFV is a good example of doing this right).
Click to expand...

I was thinking of making a post about akuma and this was almost exactly what i wanted to say.
Although i don't think he has amazing damage in a lot of situations outside of vtrigger, on the other hand his stun output is top tier indead.

I also agree with everything infiltration said besides the shoryuken comments. Very well made interview.
 
E

ElFly

Member
killu4what said:
I'm seeing more and more that people base how good the game is on their personal success. And that ALL pro players complain that their character isn't good enough.
Click to expand...

zangief was buffed recently so this is the best game of all time

at least daigo has some consistency in saying "I think Guile is really good in S2" and ... seemingly switching to him?
 
L

lucebuce12

Member
ElFly said:
zangief was buffed recently so this is the best game of all time

at least daigo has some consistency in saying "I think Guile is really good in S2" and ... seemingly switching to him?
Click to expand...
Yeah but there's certainly precedence. Daigo has played Guile in previous SF games, plus the way he played Ryu in S1 was almost exactly how he plays Guile now.

A Defensive wall where he takes advantage of his excellent fireball game and solid normals. So it makes sense that he'd go for the character with the best fireball and some of the best defense in the game.

I remember when he did a BeasTV episode during S1 where he played against one of Japan's top Guiles and he just could not get in for the life of him. Almost every jump in was getting AA'd, he couldn't rely solely on his fireball game since Guile was beating him at that and so on.
 
C

Csr

Member
KidA Seven said:
Capcom could be catering to casuals, but also be failing to cater to casuals. It comes down to intention and execution. Their intention was to cater to casuals by making execution easier, making fireballs less effective, making walk speeds slower, and making jumping more effective. However, as you pointed out, their execution of it was horrible. If they truly wanted to cater to casuals, the tutorial mode should be much better. There should be more single player content for casuals to enjoy.

The same goes for the esports side of things. They intended to cater to esports, but at the same time fail to make CFN be a capcom pro tour hub. When they first announced CFN I was hugely excited about the potential to inform new players about the scene. A capcom pro tour leaderboard being easily accessible from the main menu would inform new players that there is competitive street fighter. The main menu notifying users that a premier tournament is currently happening on their capcom twitch channel would be beneficial. As would including the top 5 plays from the premier tournaments showcasing the hype or notifying users of capcom pro talk which was hugely entertaining. I mentioned all of these things when cfn was first announced and I thought it was completely obvious that that is what they should be doing. It didn't happen though.

Of course there are positives that can be taken from their attempt at esports like the money, replay system, and dlc model which doesn't split the playerbase. It's just overall disappointing that the game could be so much more.

You are right that they have an identity crisis. Hopefully things become better because SF is my favorite series in gaming and my favorite scene to follow. I see marvel players getting excited, but I won't lie if I'm not a bit salty that marvel might thrive (from learning from their mistakes) at the expense of SF. Never really cared for Marvel so I'm not really all that hype for the game.
Click to expand...

Good post. Agreed.
It was a huge missed opportunity.
 
M

MrCarter

Member
I like that SNK made an attempt to improve KOF with a graphical update but the animations are still janky unfortunately. SFV clipping is really hideous on the VS screen but in-game it's fine and don't notice much apart from Necalli, Cammy and Laura's hair.
 
U

Ucchedavāda

Member
MrCarter said:
I like that SNK made an attempt to improve KOF with a graphical update but the animations are still janky unfortunately. SFV clipping is really hideous on the VS screen but in-game it's fine and don't notice much apart from Necalli, Cammy and Laura's hair.
Click to expand...

Dhalsim's default is also pretty terrible with clipping, with his legs clipping through his pants in several of his regular poses (see e.g. here).
 
E

ElFly

Member
MrCarter said:
I like that SNK made an attempt to improve KOF with a graphical update but the animations are still janky unfortunately. SFV clipping is really hideous on the VS screen but in-game it's fine and don't notice much apart from Necalli, Cammy and Laura's hair.
Click to expand...

the new costumes are also p clippy

One of Laura's costumes has a tail that, WHILE IDLING just clips visibly into the floor
 
C

CountBlack

Member
Online tournies with SFV's netcode.. nah breh

the only thing we've heard from Capcom so far this year is that they were going to leave the haters behind lmao
 
P

Pompadour

Member
CountBlack said:
Online tournies with SFV's netcode.. nah breh

the only thing we've heard from Capcom so far this year is that they were going to leave the haters behind lmao
Click to expand...

Was that guy with Capcom or just a guy who works for a company that is working with Capcom? He had something to do with merchandising, I think.

I'm curious to what they have planned if it's an actual big deal. "Leaving haters behind" would require something big, like a few free fan-favorite characters or something.
 
L

lucebuce12

Member
And this:
Happy new year everyone, congratulations! It is Matsumoto.
LtWWke2.jpg
Click to expand...

Last time I was indebted to you!

Although it only did not arrive, I was able to celebrate 2017 with the support of fans, users and players.

I really appreciate it.

We are committed to improving our network so that we can enjoy playing happily more comfortably this year than last year, we appreciate your kind understanding.

In addition!

This year is the 30th anniversary year of the Street Fighter series! It is!
We are preparing what you can enjoy,
Please look forward to it!
Click to expand...
https://game.capcom.com/cfn/sfv/column/131356
Original Post.
 
C

CountBlack

Member
I'd really like to see them do another big tourny for the 30th Anniversary like they did for the 25th.

ST, 3s, A2 or A3, USF4, SFV all with a pot bonus to get internationals out that enjoy each game.

probably not worth the money for them tho
 
K

KidA Seven

Member
Daigo is going with Ryu.

-He knows he's always liked Guile and has used him forever.
-However, because he didn't use Guile in season 1 and grinded with him, he feels like jumping to Guile right now would mean he's just jumping to a top tier
-He doesn't want to be seen that way
-He also doesn't want to put pressure on himself and if he loses with Guile, he might lose sponsorship
-However, he also doesn't want people to excuse him if he loses like "Well, you're using Ryu."
-Also, he's not playing just to get results. If he switches to Guile, he's just chasing after money and he will lose the kid side to him.


He declared that he's going to with with Ryu in season 2.
 
C

CountBlack

Member
KidA Seven said:
Daigo is going with Ryu.

-He knows he's always liked Guile and has used him forever.
-However, because he didn't use Guile in season 1 and grinded with him, he feels like jumping to Guile right now would mean he's just jumping to a top tier
-He doesn't want to be seen that way
-He also doesn't want to put pressure on himself and if he loses with Guile, he might lose sponsorship
-However, he also doesn't want people to excuse him if he loses like "Well, you're using Ryu."


He declared that he's going to with with Ryu in season 2.
Click to expand...

I think he felt the same way when he started playing Yun in AE.

Oh well, there's always season 3 for Daigo to make Capcom Cup
 
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