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[Skilletor]

Makes playing footsies against certain characters kinda stupid though. Especially if there's that normal priority system in place where stronger buttons will beat out the weaker ones.

Yeah, there are some moves that are too good as both a CC and a poke in the neutral.

I'd prefer if they made CC moves a command move rather than a move that, sometimes (depending on the character), doubles as an amazing poke that's, usually, safe on block, and also super good damage if you manage to land a counter hit.

I also think it's contrary to the design emphasis behind this game where every move should be a choice of risk/reward.

 

[Zombegoast]

Makes playing footsies against certain characters kinda stupid though. Especially if there's that normal priority system in place where stronger buttons will beat out the weaker ones.

Mika's Passion Press > Everything!.

 

[SSReborn]

Well, not for me. Till the end of USF4 I stil tried to learn how to do certain Dudley combos, resets and frame traps I saw Smug do in tournaments and I never really mastered any of them. This gave me motivation to keep playing. I only very rarely have this feeling with V.

I think the ceiling for these things was just overall higher in USF4 which is something that definitely needs to be addressed going forward. With regard to combos they need to be spiced up a bit for a portion of the cast even if that means dropping the damage a bit. It will allow for you to give the player more to experiment with and have more to work towards with regards to being creative.

The second benefit would be from a viewer perspective, the super casual audience doesn't really understand the whole footsie and neutral game aspect but they can definitely understand when you pull off flashy and impressive looking combos so I think it will add in that aspect as well. They just can't overdo it.

 

[TheSpoiler]

The V stuff in general could be buffed up and more important to gameplay to solve both those problems, honestly.

 

[Mr. X]

The V stuff in general could be buffed up and more important to gameplay to solve both those problems, honestly.

V Trigger and reversal are strong already, it's many dull v skills.

Make combos harder is also a dumb suggestion.

 

[mnz]

I like that the execution barrier is lower since you're then getting into the fun part of fighting games (imo) which is the mind games. Having to worry about super tight execution gets in the way of that for me. I think execution is an important part of fighting games but something like Rising Thunder is way too low of a bar and that would bore me to death. SFV found a good balance imo. I might know how to do most of Balrog's biggest combos but getting to that point is that challenge.

That's why I think 2 frame links would strike a good balance, but maybe my that's just my gut feeling, because I feel like this game is not too far off from Rising Thunder when it comes to execution.

 

[jett]

Well, I feel like adding new moves and things isn't going to draw in a new crowd to be honest. SFV is already doing fine from a hardcore perspective, now they need to loop more people in. The current DLC system is actually fine, if not maybe some more methods like Extra VS and giving a few more FM for beating people online.

I don't think their release of DLC is great. Definitely not a lot of content there, I feel like they're leaving money on the table. Nor do I think they're providing enough of a carrot for people to keep playing in order to unlock shit.

That's not true, sf5 was coming regardless, the Sony partnership just sped it up.

A Street Fighter game would have been released. One day. Maybe. In the nebulous future. THIS game exists because of this partnership.

 

[mnz]

A Street Fighter game would have been released. One day. Maybe. In the nebulous future. THIS game exists because of this partnership.

Wasn't word on the street that Sony mostly paid for the Pro Tour? Capcom is still its publisher.

 

[MrCarter]

Maximilian's 5 changes:

- remove anti-air jab
- reduce frame delay
- improve/extend/add V-Skills/V-Trigger
- improve matchmaking and speed it up
- add arcade mode and hidden bosses

I mean...that's pretty much what everyone agrees on I would say. Nothing crazy. And hasn't he made pretty much the exact same video before?

Spoiler

Can't stand Max's videos, these 5 points took him 13 minutes

What's it called?

I find Max very biased when it comes to SFV. He mentions sales yet he doesn't even say how much the game has actually shipped in total and how well it has actually done in comparison to so many of the fighters he plays on his channel. He constantly tries to nitpick about every little thing just to backup his agenda. He mentions playing the beta but fails to understand that the beta was still an unbalanced mess and needed to be tweaked before the game was released. Hence "beta".

- Remove anti-air jab: That has been a change that people have wanted for ages, nothing original.

- Reduce frame delay: Nit-picking as it's already been done and I doubt this will do anything for "casuals" as they won't even know what it is. Kind of contradictory.

- Multiple V-Skill and Triggers: This is more of an idealistic fanboy request than a realistic one. SFIV only had one Super and Ultra in the first few years of its release and I think SFV already has more accessible yet deeper mechanics within its first year.

- Speed up matching making: Again, people have been saying this for ages. Nothing new.

- Arcade Mode: If he did his research he would know Arcade and "Extra Battle" mode have been in the pipeline for a while now and there have even been hints in the game that it might transpire soon too.

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

A Street Fighter game would have been released. One day. Maybe. In the nebulous future. THIS exists because of this partnership.

If I have anything to say about it, and I do, you will not have to wait ten years for Street Fighter 5," Killian said. "It will be before 2019. Now I'm going to be fired for promising Street Fighter 5 before 2019. I think I should be OK. We'll see. They'll do 2020 just to screw me and make me look like an ass.

Nothing nebulous or "a street fighter" about it; sf5 "before" 2019.

 

[JayEH]

That's why I think 2 frame links would strike a good balance, but maybe my that's just my gut feeling, because I feel like this game is not too far off from Rising Thunder when it comes to execution.

you have to remember for a lot of people things like throwing a fireball is still a challenge to them and enough of an intimidation for them to not try fighting games at all. SFV still has motions and you still need to time your links as it isn't "dial a combo" like a NRS or Tekken game. Saying it is not too far from Rising Thunder is disingenuous. Going back to tekken learning combos or characters at a basic level is not that hard. You can mash around and still have a fun time but movement is what makes tekken hard and that every character has over a 100 moves. There execution is not the barrier but operating a 3d space with hundreds of possibilities is.

 

[J_Macgrady]

Anyone down for some games?

CFN: J_Macgrady

 

[TheSpoiler]

Talking about execution, I think because of the way SFV handles it is fine because of the rest of the game. The damage is hgh, less means of bullshitting out of bad situations, and true fear of the corner means people are dropping even the simplest combos. Top players are still dropping things that even newbies can do, and that's because SFV feels more offensive and dangerous.

 

[jett]

Wasn't word on the street that Sony mostly paid for the Pro Tour? Capcom is still its publisher.

I don't really know what the word on the street is.

Nothing nebulous or "a street fighter" about it; sf5 "before" 2019.

Seth Killian hasn't worked at Capcom in years.

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

Seth Killian hasn't worked at Capcom in years.

*sigh*

It was shortly after we finished development of Super Street Fighter 4 Arcade Edition ver. 2012 that planning for Street Fighter 5 began, If you look back at my interview archives from back then, you’ll note that I remarked quite a few times that I wanted that to be our last update to the SF4 series.

Clearly, I had Street Fighter 5 planning on the mind. *laughs*

Development on AE2012 ended around the same time (2011) seth killian gave that quote...

 

[Csr]

No - getting CC's off of things like a st. mp whiff is pretty dumb

For a cc to happen the st.mp will not have time to whiff, it will be cc'ed out of it's start up. If that is what you mean then nevermind.

That's why I think 2 frame links would strike a good balance, but maybe my that's just my gut feeling, because I feel like this game is not too far off from Rising Thunder when it comes to execution.

This is actually one of the things that i enjoy in SFV compared to SFIV, that i don't have to grind training for tight links. I enjoy watching performing hard combos but only the ones that require dexterity.

I don't think it would make that big of a difference anyway tbh other than people having to grind a little more. The combos would still be easy enough to not be impressive. 2 frame buffer + the actual frames that make the link possible which would end up being 3 and up. Noone in sfiv was impressed by people doing 3 frame links or even 2 frame links which was a big majority of the combos.

I would like them to add some execution difficulty, just not in that area.

 

[Omnistalgic]

That's why I think 2 frame links would strike a good balance, but maybe my that's just my gut feeling, because I feel like this game is not too far off from Rising Thunder when it comes to execution.

Nah...combos are still dropped, the execution is fine, most people still can't do what Nuckledu can or Momochi with their respective characters and this level of execution gets into the heart of what fighting games are all about.

They can add complex characters like a stance switcher or change up designs of characters like Akuma, Sakura, Ono, etc...

I'm so much better in 5 than I was in 4 because of the execution barrier and more thought being put into gameplay. In 4 I was just free to certain stuff like twins dive kick or a good elf.

 

[mnz]

2 frame buffer + the actual frames that make the link possible which would end up being 3 and up.

Not sure I understand. SFV has theoretical 1 frame links, it's just that the input buffer makes them easier.

And yeah, 2 frame is not that difficult, that's my point lol

 

[Mediking]

Why, exactly?

Ranked adds too much unnecessary stress and I'm not learning. At least in Battle Lounge, I'm fighting guys several levels ahead of me BUT I'm learning at a pace without losing rank. Those guys are patient with Bronze guys like me. I also can fight them repeatedly without a problem. Strokethis fought me several times before he had to go. He fought with Cammy last to teach me new stuff. And he did teach me stuff but I managed to overwhelm him with my crazy Cammy a few times. I forgot how fun this game is....

 

[The Lone Dragon]

Battle on the Strip streaming now:
https://www.twitch.tv/battlevegas

Currently MikeandIke Laura vs XKX Samurai Ryu in Winners Finals

 

[spazchicken]

People are still here? Good, I thought SFV OT's were dead.

It's nothing special but I have a new video up if anyone is interested. I couldn't lose to someone with a troll name like : "May Cause Rage Quit"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZldmTkSIZw&t=13s

I rely on moonsault way too much but it keeps good pressure on the opponent more times than not, at least at my level. I need to start playing ranked again as well.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

I also have a new video up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUYD5eVCNtg

 

[Csr]

Not sure I understand. SFV has theoretical 1 frame links, it's just that the input buffer makes them easier.

And yeah, 2 frame is not that difficult, that's my point lol

My mistake, i thought you said change the buffer to 2 frames.

I mean it is difficult enough for you to have to grind combos but not difficult enough to be impressed by it, what is the point then? It would make online even more frustrating.

I find Max very biased when it comes to SFV. He mentions sales yet he doesn't even say how much the game has actually shipped in total and how well it has actually done in comparison to so many of the fighters he plays on his channel. He constantly tries to nitpick about every little thing just to backup his agenda. He mentions playing the beta but fails to understand that the beta was still an unbalanced mess and needed to be tweaked before the game was released. Hence "beta".

- Remove anti-air jab: That has been a change that people have wanted for ages, nothing original.

- Reduce frame delay: Nit-picking as it's already been done and I doubt this will do anything for "casuals" as they won't even know what it is. Kind of contradictory.

- Multiple V-Skill and Triggers: This is more of an idealistic fanboy request than a realistic one. SFIV only had one Super and Ultra in the first few years of its release and I think SFV already has more accessible yet deeper mechanics within its first year.

- Speed up matching making: Again, people have been saying this for ages. Nothing new.

- Arcade Mode: If he did his research he would know Arcade and "Extra Battle" mode have been in the pipeline for a while now and there have even been hints in the game that it might transpire soon too.

He didn't say anything outlandish about the sales or the beta. I don't remember him saying the beta was better just that he played it more. From what i understand he didn't like the beta that much either for the same reasons.

He wasn't complaining that there was only one vtrigger for each char in sfv, what he was complaing about was that some of them are boring. He wanted more vtriggers in season 2 just like supers were added in SSFIV.

You are right about the arcade mode though.

 

[blackadde]

There is a really common misconception about fighting games, that at some point in the skill curve execution is not longer an issue and the game becomes chess-like. That is, it becomes a game of 'pure strategy' rather than the complex, fun mess that fighting games actually are.

The reality of it is that for a game to be really exciting at all levels of play (IMO!), there have to be multiple things screaming for your attention; a read on your opponent, space control, reflexes, mechanical execution, your emotional state, etc. Having to continuously walk the executional tightrope under huge pressure is as much a part of the DNA of fighting games as health bars and invisible stage walls.

Not to mention, games with interesting and free-form execution allow for continuous growth as the games develop. Like, I watched a teaser video of the next Cooperation Cup this morning (a major, yearly Third Strike tournament) - even after playing that game for 11 years I'm STILL seeing new stuff happen. I don't think, wow, these guys are so good that I'll never be able to do that. I think, goddamn, I can't wait to learn how to do that and really ruin somebody's day. Aside from some cool stuff RB's done with Urien, I haven't ever felt that way either playing or watching SFV which sucks.

I watch RX play Urien in 3S and he's doing crazy creative things nobody else has even thought of. I watch Sako play Vampire, or Ogawa play Zato, or FAB play Potemkin, and it's really inspiring. It's really really really hard to imagine that ever happening in a game with a universal 3f buffer window that doesn't even let you mis-time frame traps or buttons coming out of blockstun.

 

[Mediking]

Is it really not possible to buy certain costumes for SFV on PSN Mobile??? I can't find any DLC costume on PSN via PSN mobile... I can only see them on the game.... which leads me to PSN on PS4.

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

Is it really not possible to buy certain costumes for SFV on PSN Mobile??? I can't find any DLC costume on PSN via PSN mobile... I can only see them on the game.... which leads me to PSN on PS4.

the costumes aren´t in the store, be it psn or steam, they are in game.

 

[Mediking]

the costumes aren´t in the store, be it psn or steam, they are in game.

??? But why...????

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

Because fight money.

 

[mbpm1]

Spoiler

since i play necalli now i'm keeping my ego low which is good

 

[mnz]

I mean it is difficult enough for you to have to grind combos but not difficult enough to be impressed by it, what is the point then? It would make online even more frustrating.

The point is to not see the exact same combos at EVO and at Gold rank and upwards. I want to add some pressure to it. I think blackadde explained it well.
I fear for the longevity of this game because players don't see enough stuff to aspire towards.

 

[Mediking]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZldmTkSIZw&t=13s

I rely on moonsault way too much but it keeps good pressure on the opponent more times than not, at least at my level. I need to start playing ranked again as well.

I also have a new video up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUYD5eVCNtg

Nothing better than fighting back from a high stun chance.

And that guy totally rage quitted on FluxWaveZ!

 

[mbpm1]

Mika's Passion Press > Everything!.

So what you're saying is make Mika's Clap Crush Counter

 

[ViewtifulJC]

Spoiler

since i play necalli now i'm keeping my ego low which is good

you ditched ryu

you sicken me deeply

 

[Marvel]

People are still here? Good, I thought SFV OT's were dead.

We still in this, fam.

 

[mbpm1]

you ditched ryu

you sicken me deeply

ryu doesn't dunk people or have a distracting v-trigger

 

[Skilletor]

The point is to not see the exact same combos at EVO and at Gold rank and upwards. I want to add some pressure to it. I think blackadde explained it well.
I fear for the longevity of this game because players don't see enough stuff to aspire towards.

Eh...SF4 had the same combos over and over at EVO.

I think too many people put too much emphasis on combos. 3s doesn't have many combos. ST doesn't have many combos. A3 didn't have many combos (outside of vism, which made the game worse). A2, same thing. CvS2, same thing.

SF4 is literally the only game that had so many links and different combos, and you still saw the same ones over and over. It's not typical of SF.

 

[TheSpoiler]

There is a really common misconception about fighting games, that at some point in the skill curve execution is not longer an issue and the game becomes chess-like. That is, it becomes a game of 'pure strategy' rather than the complex, fun mess that fighting games actually are.

The reality of it is that for a game to be really exciting at all levels of play (IMO!), there have to be multiple things screaming for your attention; a read on your opponent, space control, reflexes, mechanical execution, your emotional state, etc. Having to continuously walk the executional tightrope under huge pressure is as much a part of the DNA of fighting games as health bars and invisible stage walls.

Not to mention, games with interesting and free-form execution allow for continuous growth as the games develop. Like, I watched a teaser video of the next Cooperation Cup this morning (a major, yearly Third Strike tournament) - even after playing that game for 11 years I'm STILL seeing new stuff happen. I don't think, wow, these guys are so good that I'll never be able to do that. I think, goddamn, I can't wait to learn how to do that and really ruin somebody's day. Aside from some cool stuff RB's done with Urien, I haven't ever felt that way either playing or watching SFV which sucks.

I watch RX play Urien in 3S and he's doing crazy creative things nobody else has even thought of. I watch Sako play Vampire, or Ogawa play Zato, or FAB play Potemkin, and it's really inspiring. It's really really really hard to imagine that ever happening in a game with a universal 3f buffer window that doesn't even let you mis-time frame traps or buttons coming out of blockstun.

Well, the same still applies to SFV in other ways. Nemo and Flash play vastly different Vegas. So do Bon and Infli. Hsien's Juri is on another damn level, and Mago and Justin's Karin play is pretty different as well. With other SF games, it was like "okay, there's an optimal way to play this guy and a non-optimal way", Which is still fun, and nothing wrong with that, but SFV allows people to just different playstyles and mold it around those things.

Execution is still very much a thing. It's simpler, and shorter, but people are dropping easy combos left and right. Why? Because the damage and potential to get fucked in this game are far higher than other SF titles barring maybe 2. Even dudes at top tournaments get rocked on things like target combo into whatever. Bonchan left a lot of damage on the table in his fights a few nights ago and I feel like that's why he lost.

So while the barrier is lower than usual, and the combos aren't as long or as tough, it's even more important to be on point with everything you do in a match so it balances itself out. Having a bigger execution barrier or longer combos wouldn't work in a high damage game like SFV.

SFV's problem is that it just needs the V Skills to be more important and balanced for everyone to use across the board. They are flashy, they are things that even casuals can point out, but they don't come out often enough. If Mika's mic drop was more important to her gameplan, how hype would a casual person be if they saw that shit? Probably pretty damn hyped. Same with Ryu's parry.

TL;DR SFV's low execution barrier is balanced by high damage and the fact that even pro level people are scared of eating a CC or 1/4 their life bar.

Edit: And yeah, thinking on it, SF4's EVO had a lot of similar combos. Especially with E. Ryu.

Especially with fucking E. Ryu.

 

[spazchicken]

We still in this, fam.

That's awesome. It moved from community and messed me up. I found it now though.

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

The point is to not see the exact same combos at EVO and at Gold rank and upwards. I want to add some pressure to it. I think blackadde explained it well.
I fear for the longevity of this game because players don't see enough stuff to aspire towards.

for all of sf4's "complexity", people just kept using the same stuff over and over, because damage.
It didn't stop umvc3 players from using the same doom/magneto/storm/vergil/etc combos over and over either.

 

[Skilletor]

for all of sf4's "complexity", people just kept using the same stuff over and over, because damage.
It didn't stop umvc3 players from using the same doom/magneto/storm/vergil/etc combos over and over either.

This is something that literally all fighting games do. You don't see 1093420894098 different combos. You see 2 or 3. People do the things that work best, work for the situation, and do the most damage.

 

[Csr]

The point is to not see the exact same combos at EVO and at Gold rank and upwards. I want to add some pressure to it. I think blackadde explained it well.
I fear for the longevity of this game because players don't see enough stuff to aspire towards.

Most people did 2 frame link combos in sfiv though, it was the 1 framers the they had trouble with, unless they were a total beginner. I don't think gold and up would have that much trouble with 2 frame links. Maybe i am wrong though haven't played someone in gold in a long time.

Like i said i would also like some execution difficulty added but i don't want it to come from tight links.

 

[tintin1029]

SO. FUCKING. CLUTCH.

 

[mbpm1]

If we want combo variation maybe SFV should take a page out of KI and make combos so that going for different ones offer real, thought out advantages beyond just damage and occasionally knockdown.

I seriously doubt they're going to bother though

 

[blackadde]

SFV doesn't even have high damage - seriously, go watch a CvS2 video where A-Sakura gets an invincible activation into a BLOCKSTRING for 1/3 of your health.

3S has 0-stun -> death combos and unblockable loops if you screw up. The best character in that game has 1 button confirms into a super that takes half your health into a 50/50 blender back into super for the other half.

Alpha 3 has CC infinites and V-ism garbage.

ST, well, you get hit with one uppercut and you're bleeding. You get to take throw bash loops into possibly the round for missing anything.

Not to mention other games - KOF13, Marvel, Guilty Gear, KI - all games with one-touch into half health or more on a regular basis.

So, I think that argument that execution needs to be easier because of abnormally high damage in SFV is misguided.

As to your other points; I really don't see much personality in playstyles between Bonchan and Infiltration, although I agree with you on Justin and Mago (but that's just because Mago is Doing It Right and Justin isn't).

Edit: My point isn't just necessarily that games should have lots of meaningful variety in their combo systems; it's more an issue that having a very low mechanical skill ceiling (I don't think any meaningful argument can be made in favor of SFV against this end) limits growth and makes the game way less exciting once it's mature.

Marvel 3 is a broken-ass game but you still see crazy players coming out of the woodwork these days (Priest, Apologyman, Dual Kevin) with weird teams they made work because nobody else explored them - there was actually room TO explore.

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

You just listed all things not included that make SF5 better, nobody wants to see infinites or mvc one touch combos in SF.
Which is why CC damage is such a big deal.

 

[spazchicken]

SO. FUCKING. CLUTCH.

Nice comeback. Bison is so cheap in Survival.

 

[tintin1029]

??? But why...????

Because it would be annoying as hell to have that pack the psn DLC section. It's already annoying for a lot of games with Costume dlc. Glad SFV doesn't have that issue.

 

[JayEH]

The simplification of SFV has been exaggerated by the community. Like I said earlier the execution is still there it just isn't as difficult as IV which for some reason means it's for babies. Also i agree with Skilletor about people putting too much emphasis on combos. Combos are a part of the game they should not be the main appeal.

 

[blackadde]

You just listed all things not included that make SF5 better, nobody wants to see infinites or mvc one touch combos in SF.
Which is why CC damage is such a big deal.

I mean, OK, but speak for yourself.

Personally I really like seeing people get mauled 3S because they made a mistake - same in a bunch of modern games like KOF or KI or Xrd. My point is just that SFV is not some weird anomaly where the rules had to change because damage output is fundamentally different.

 

[B-Genius]

Hey how do you folks link directly to your Share Factory gifs?
I have the gif saved on my PS4 and Tweeted, but not sure how to link it as its own image.