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[Dahbomb]

Crush counters that you can throw out in neutral willy nilly or be used as a pressure tool because some are plus are the worst offenders. Balrog's st.HK is something hardly anyone talks about but is pretty problematic.

At least Cammy has no such CC move. Someone like Guile has Backfist for his CC which is really good but you can't spam it. It can be ducked and punished for example. Even Ryu's st.HK is not something you throw out unless you have a read.

And that's the main take away here. Crush counter moves should be a risk/reward type thing. Instead they are super high reward and low risk for some characters.

 

[Zombegoast]

Or, you could add me and Skilletor as new platinum bosses.

I've been in platinum since before S2 and was never added. Hell I'm 1k away being Super platinum.

 

[lucebuce12]

I've been in platinum since before S2 and was never added. Hell I'm 1k away being Super platinum.

Then just pm Reizo if it's a big deal, he probably doesn't have the time to sift through every post to see who needs to be added to the OP.

Crush counters that you can throw out in neutral willy nilly or be used as a pressure tool because some are plus are the worst offenders. Balrog's st.HK is something hardly anyone talks about but is pretty problematic.

At least Cammy has no such CC move. Someone like Guile has Backfist for his CC which is really good but you can't spam it. It can be ducked and punished for example. Even Ryu's st.HK is not something you throw out unless you have a read.

And that's the main take away here. Crush counter moves should be a risk/reward type thing. Instead they are super high reward and low risk for some characters.

Personally I'm in favour of CCs only being possible after a blocked invincible reversal. I just feel like the CC system homogenizes a lot of character's offense and gameplan. It's much more of an issue for some charcters.

 

[Edzi]

I've been in platinum since before S2 and was never added. Hell I'm 1k away being Super platinum.

We're all getting snubbed here.

 

[MCD250]

I thought the idea of making crush counters unsafe on block sounded good too. They could be like sweeps, basically. Good/useful/powerful if they connect but dangerous if blocked up close.

 

[Edzi]

I thought the idea of making crush counters unsafe on block sounded good too. They could be like sweeps, basically. Good/useful/powerful if they connect but dangerous if blocked up close.

Maybe, but it'd require more reworking than just making them all unsafe. Alex relies too much on his f.HP, so that would probably have to have it's CC property removed if they went this route.

 

[tintin1029]

Let's not kid ourselves SFV is a way better game than KoF XIV.

And -Revelator- is better than both, but fair enough

 

[abstract alien]

Not sure how feasible it is, but FANG could use some enhancements to his V-Skill. I'm talking added moves, like being able to charge it so it's a bigger poison cloud, cancelling charge into coward crouching, etc. Maybe back dash out of charge as well, but the command dash would work for forward movement. Hell, I'd let him throw a literal hovering poison cloud in the air as well with a directional push along with V-Skill. During V-Trigger, all charged versions have a single hitbox for the duration of the meter. Of course, poison would do more damage as well.

Not sure how much this would even help with aggressive opponents, but it's something without making him jump the tier list like crazy.

I thought the idea of making crush counters unsafe on block sounded good too. They could be like sweeps, basically. Good/useful/powerful if they connect but dangerous if blocked up close.

I honestly don't like this at all. Sometimes you need a character to have a potentially strong move that is safe on block. It feels like too much of a uniform change that takes the fun and tension out of being on defense.

 

[Rickenslacker]

Crush counters that you can throw out in neutral willy nilly or be used as a pressure tool because some are plus are the worst offenders. Balrog's st.HK is something hardly anyone talks about but is pretty problematic.

At least Cammy has no such CC move. Someone like Guile has Backfist for his CC which is really good but you can't spam it. It can be ducked and punished for example. Even Ryu's st.HK is not something you throw out unless you have a read.

And that's the main take away here. Crush counter moves should be a risk/reward type thing. Instead they are super high reward and low risk for some characters.

CCs in neutral like this and the braindead confirms off V-Trig are two of my main beefs with the game right now.

 

[Sayad]

I thought the idea of making crush counters unsafe on block sounded good too. They could be like sweeps, basically. Good/useful/powerful if they connect but dangerous if blocked up close.

The thing this game really doesn't need right now is more unsafe on block normals, just make CCs less rewarding from poke range.

 

[Karsticles]

I thought the idea of making crush counters unsafe on block sounded good too. They could be like sweeps, basically. Good/useful/powerful if they connect but dangerous if blocked up close.

You might as well just delete Bison.

 

[SolarPowered]

Maybe, but it'd require more reworking than just making them all unsafe. Alex relies too much on his f.HP, so that would probably have to have it's CC property removed if they went this route.

Alex and Bison would be dead with significantly nerfed crush counters. Seriously, Alex can't even dash forward and hit confirm after a f.HP CC poke. Characters like Urien make crush counters look downright OP. What Capcom SHOULD do is buff AA crush counters for characters currently lacking a strong AA punish. Alex, Bison and Karin come to mind in that department. At the very least Urien shouldn't be able to mash his st.HP CC so easily when even a baby can hit confirm into full damage off a stray hit.

 

[Rickenslacker]

Alex and Bison would be dead with significantly nerfed crush counters. What Capcom SHOULD do is buff AA crush counters for characters currently lacking a strong AA punish. Alex, Bison and Karin come to mind in that department.

With Karin, it's my understanding that they've explicitly designed her to be weak in regards to AAing. As much as I want her crouching fierce to be akin to Sakura's God Hand in SF4, I fear it will likely never be.

 

[mnz]

Topanga is live, English stream: https://www.openrec.tv/live/qwbvDYRSRfI

So far:

Spoiler

GW|Eita (Ken) — ● ○ ● ● ● ● ● ○ ○ ● 7
HORI|Sako (Akuma) — ○ ● ○ ○ ○ ○ ○ ● ● ○ 3

Gachikun (Rashid) — ○ ○ ● ● ○ ○ ○ ○ ○ 2
RB|Bonchan (Nash)  — ● ● ○ ○ ● ● ● ● ● 7

Stolen from EH.

 

[Spuck-uk]

If you are a top player who loves SFV then SFV is great. Lots of competition, big money being thrown in etc.

Everyone not in that upper echelon (or with the same opinion) is just struggling to care.

Normally I would say that having more money into FGs is a good thing but this is just stepping on scheduling of past events. It's quite frankly just intrusive at this point.

A lot of people on that top level are only playing SFv because it's the big game, and have said as much. Duty Fighter V indeed.

 

[TheSpoiler]

A lot of people on that top level are only playing SFv because it's the big game, and have said as much. Duty Fighter V indeed.

Half of the top players say that for pretty much every SF game. 4 was the same way and so was 3 especially with how much the half scene not liking it.

 

[mnz]

A lot of people on that top level are only playing SFv because it's the big game, and have said as much. Duty Fighter V indeed.

Another reason why eSport sucks.

 

[ThatCrazyGuy]

A lot of people on that top level are only playing SFv because it's the big game, and have said as much. Duty Fighter V indeed.

Meh. People have doing that with every SF game. I am not a top player and I did that with CVS2. I didn't like it but it was getting heavy play in the arcade. I knew alot of alpha 3 players whole begrudgingly played 3S, haha.

 

[Moaradin]

Can't wait for SF6 to come out and everyone says how much they love SFV

 

[TheSpoiler]

I guess you could make a case that more people are playing SFV for the money than before simply due to the prize pools being bigger than what 4 was (and certainly 3, lul). Additionally, people want to get sponsored, so it makes sense to play the game that has the biggest draw for their sponsors.

On the flipside, there are more people showing up to CPT events than before (at least, last year, which is probably due to SFV hype moreso than the game itself), more entrants at EVO last year (again, hype, but still), and more top players being highlighted. SFV as a job isn't viable for 99 percent of the players. Even people who are sponsored rarely ever get anymore more than being able to be flown out to a few events outta the year. Echo Fox's salary shift is a rarity, which is why most players hold 9-5s.

It's not really the fault of eSports for "forcing" people to play because there still isn't enough cash to go around to keep people doing it en masse and not (partially) enjoy it. It's still a competitive hobby for most which a very, very slim chance to earn a buck. The allure of eSports money ends once people figure out that the chance of winning is much, much lower than the effort they have to put in something they don't like.

That doesn't mean everyone is doing this for fun. Phenom doesn't like the game. K-Brad likes SF4 better. A few Japanese players would rather go back to 4 or 3. But that's just part of it. Some players play because it's the most competitive game, quality be damned. Some play because they like it. It's a mix, and it's always been like that for SF.

The "only doing it for the money' thing is just weird because most of the people playing aren't going to make enough to justify the time spent getting smashed in the face with CCs.

 

[mnz]

It's such a bad argument. If you end up playing a game you don't like because it's your job then tough luck, pick a better career. Imagine a cyclist saying he would rather run lol. Get off the road then.

I gotta say, though. This gootecks invitation is ridiculous. That is just pure popularity > skill. Not really what I sign up for when I watch fighting games being played. Who's next? LTG? DSP?

Oh and is anyone watching Topanga? I'm pretty impressed by Bonchan. He's really making Nash work.
edit: I jinxed him.

 

[ThatCrazyGuy]

Can't wait for SF6 to come out and everyone says how much they love SFV

Duty fighter Six.

 

[Smooth Operator]

The "only doing it for the money' thing is just weird because most of the people playing aren't going to make enough to justify the time spent getting smashed in the face with CCs.

Yup

The big french FGC Facebook Group is really fucked up now. You see people complaining every single day about SFV. But they keep playing SFV for 7 8 hours a day after work. I just can't understand that mindset. If you hate a video game, just... don't play ?

I kinda understand why the players "in the money" are playing SFV, it's a job. But if you're not in the money and keep complaining + playing... You need to reevaluate your life priorities.

 

[Spuck-uk]

What are the new KOF DLC characters?

What day do they come out? How much will they cost?

Who are the characters included in the Tekken 7 season pass?

What day will we know exactly? What modes will be in the game exactly?

Welcome to video games. Companies don't provide details until the content is almost done (because if things change, people get angry. See: Ibuki)
And, yet, if they just say nothing until then, people would get mad at that too.

King of fighters is already a good and complete game though, SFV is not.

 

[TheSpoiler]

It's such a bad argument. If you end up playing a game you don't like because it's your job then tough luck, pick a better career. Imagine a cyclist saying he would rather run lol. Get off the road then.

I gotta say, though. This gootecks invitation is ridiculous. That is just pure popularity > skill. Not really what I sign up for when I watch fighting games being played. Who's next? LTG? DSP?

Oh and is anyone watching Topanga? I'm pretty impressed by Bonchan. He's really making Nash work.
edit: I jinxed him.

Don't have to worry about LTG or DSP since neither of those two dips are popular lol

Yup

The big french FGC Facebook Group is really fucked up now. You see people complaining every single day about SFV. But they keep playing SFV for 7 8 hours a day after work. I just can't understand that mindset. If you hate a video game, just... don't play ?

I kinda understand why the players "in the money" are playing SFV, it's a job. But if you're not in the money and keep complaining + playing... You need to reevaluate your life priorities.

Kappa is a reflection of the internet, and by extension, the world. Kappa hates SFV, yet talks about it constantly, and plays it constantly while not playing much else.

 

[Moaradin]

This comic will never not be relevant

 

[mnz]

King of fighters is already a good and complete game though, SFV is not.

I feel like I'm starting the cycle again here, but is that really true? Is SFV still lacking compared to KOF?
What does KOFXIV have that SFV doesn't?
(Yes, I know about arcade mode)

 

[TheSpoiler]

I feel like I'm starting the cycle again here, but is that really true? Is SFV still lacking compared to KOF?
What does KOFXIV have that SFV doesn't?
(Yes, I know about arcade mode)

Arcade mode.
The ability to play against someone in a lobby while waiting your turn (I think, which doesn't matter much since the netcode is still really rough).
Ability to save your training mode options after leaving I think.
Can have player 2 hit rematch.

But I guess his point was that SFV didn't come as feature full like KOF did.

 

[mnz]

I give you the lobby thing, that's actually #content. The rest...meh, little quirks.

Ever since that KOF world championship I feel like I can't fully believe what people say about the game lol

 

[Spuck-uk]

This comic will never not be relevant

My local scene has ditched SFV for GG and a little KoF on the side.

I know a few of the good UK players are dipping their toes into Xrd, especially ones who miss all the tech in SF4

 

[mnz]

So you're not going to answer? Ok!

 

[Skab]

This thread is starting to look like it's been put back on gaming side

 

[cackhyena]

What are the odds they could/would change things up enough to give it a depth at least on par with 4? I've felt from the very first beta, (even though you had more link options in that one) that something was missing. I'm wondering if along with whatever else they change, if mechanics could get subtle tweaks to...I dunno what.

 

[Ucchedavāda]

Oh and is anyone watching Topanga? I'm pretty impressed by Bonchan. He's really making Nash work.
edit: I jinxed him.

I'm watching it now, thanks for the links.

I wish they were using Twitch, though. The player is not very good and I had to use the Chrome development tools just to get rid of the chat. But the matches are worth watching.

 

[mnz]

Topanga has always been pay-per-view, this is the first time it isn't. OpenRec is using it as promotion, that's why it is free.

What are the odds they could/would change things up enough to give it a depth at least on par with 4? I've felt from the very first beta, (even though you had more link options in that one) that something was missing. I'm wondering if along with whatever else they change, if mechanics could get subtle tweaks to...I dunno what.

Very slim, I think. You' re basically asking them to turn it into a different game.

 

[Skilletor]

People spent more time talking about how SF5 sucks this past year than talking about how good their fighter of choice is. I bet if you take all of the threads about SF5 the past year on gaming side, it would have more posts combined than any fighting game OT outside of this one. lol

I give you the lobby thing, that's actually #content. The rest...meh, little quirks.

Ever since that KOF world championship I feel like I can't fully believe what people say about the game lol

Yeah, I don't like KoF14 very much. Feels to me the same way SF4 did for SF.

 

[sixteen-bit]

This thread is starting to look like it's been put back on gaming side

haters haven't been left behind yet

 

[Moaradin]

This Sako vs. Nemo match is crazy good. Sako Akuma is fucking scary.

 

[mnz]

Yeah, it's really fast. I noticed top players challenging more often after a move that's + on block, because that's when you would go a gap and another one or a throw. It's like we've reached a new layer of yomi.

Oh and what happened to Aegis? It's like it lost all of its bite. Sako isn't getting mixed-up at all.

 

[Pompadour]

Yeah, I don't like KoF14 very much. Feels to me the same way SF4 did for SF.

I don't understand why people champion KOFXIV as the fighting game that's clearly better. Since gameplay preference is very subjective in this genre people fall back on listing off features and content so you'd figure they would just proclaim Xrd the best because 1) it has more of everything that KOF has (except characters) and 2) isn't as ugly as sin. I know KOF games were never cutting edge graphics wise but if you're going to promote other fighting games so you can shit on SFV there's better picks.

 

[Skilletor]

I don't understand why people champion KOFXIV as the fighting game that's clearly better. Since gameplay preference is very subjective in this genre people fall back on listing off features and content so you'd figure they would just proclaim Xrd the best because 1) it has more of everything that KOF has (except characters) and 2) isn't as ugly as sin. I know KOF games were never cutting edge graphics wise but if you're going to promote other fighting games so you can shit on SFV there's better picks.

Yeah, Revelator is my personal pick for fighter of the generation so far. And with rev2 they're even losing the typical asw anti-consumer update path.

 

[TheSpoiler]

This thread is starting to look like it's been put back on gaming side

This thread is starting to look like Kappa minus the porn.

 

[vg260]

I don't understand why people champion KOFXIV as the fighting game that's clearly better. Since gameplay preference is very subjective in this genre people fall back on listing off features and content so you'd figure they would just proclaim Xrd the best because 1) it has more of everything that KOF has (except characters) and 2) isn't as ugly as sin. I know KOF games were never cutting edge graphics wise but if you're going to promote other fighting games so you can shit on SFV there's better picks.

Fatal Fury and eventually KOF started out as SNK's take on Street Fighter and has always been considered in the same vein both in general design, theme, and visual style. To me it always felt like a knock-off. It has evolved in different ways over time, but has a history of being an SF alternative so to speak. It's not surprising that if someone is recommending a replacement for SF that KOF is the first suggestion. GG is a bit too far away in that regard.

Personally, no other currently supported game gives me the SF fix, even though SFV has been a major disappointment to me so far. KI would come closest to me because if you ignore the combo system it feels most SF-like in terms of the engine and controls, but of course, you can't so it doesn't scratch the same itch.

 

[mbpm1]

I have an honest question for you all.

When you lose, is your first reaction to blame yourself and your decisions or the character or the game?

My first reaction is to kick the router

Spoiler

Kappa

 

[MisterLuffy]

I'm not eligible for the 14 day trial which is a bummer. Looks like I'm not able to get the season pass 1 for $9.99.

 

[mnz]

A taste of Nemo - Sako from before: https://twitter.com/HiFightTH/status/835128702967001088

Really good set.

 

[Spuck-uk]

I feel like I'm starting the cycle again here, but is that really true? Is SFV still lacking compared to KOF?
What does KOFXIV have that SFV doesn't?
(Yes, I know about arcade mode)

Didn't see this earlier, but.

Terrible lobby system, dysfunctional online, no arcade mode, overly expensive DLC, buggy, appalling UI/UX, and really, really slow to fix anything.

Also their balance patch waiting a year and still being bad is laughable, when SNK put out a giant, well received patch far quicker.

The lack of depth in SFV gameplay is what got most of my scene onto Xrd. everyone feels like Cody in SF4, piss poor walkspeed, stubby normals, dull gameplan.

 

[vg260]

Didn't see this earlier, but.

Terrible lobby system, dysfunctional online, no arcade mode, overly expensive DLC, buggy, appalling UI/UX, and really, really slow to fix anything.

Also their balance patch waiting a year and still being bad is laughable, when SNK put out a giant, well received patch far quicker.

The lack of depth in SFV gameplay is what got most of my scene onto Xrd. everyone feels like Cody in SF4, piss poor walkspeed, stubby normals, dull gameplan.

What do you mean by UX? Just in-game or the menus and stuff? KOF and SFIV UI look very similar to me in terms of the menu UI..

 

[Spuck-uk]

I don't understand why people champion KOFXIV as the fighting game that's clearly better. Since gameplay preference is very subjective in this genre people fall back on listing off features and content so you'd figure they would just proclaim Xrd the best because 1) it has more of everything that KOF has (except characters) and 2) isn't as ugly as sin. I know KOF games were never cutting edge graphics wise but if you're going to promote other fighting games so you can shit on SFV there's better picks.

Because people option select with 'Oh it's too anime/different to count' when you talk about Xrd being better.

 

[TheSpoiler]

Didn't see this earlier, but.

Terrible lobby system, dysfunctional online, no arcade mode, overly expensive DLC, buggy, appalling UI/UX, and really, really slow to fix anything.

Also their balance patch waiting a year and still being bad is laughable, when SNK put out a giant, well received patch far quicker.

The lack of depth in SFV gameplay is what got most of my scene onto Xrd. everyone feels like Cody in SF4, piss poor walkspeed, stubby normals, dull gameplan.

KOF's online is abhorrent (and so is GG's, but that's a story for another day) all around. DLC costumes being expensive is a good point, but most of them are unlockable by simply playing the game and earning them. KOF has pretty ridiculous bugs as well, with the corner bug being one of the bigger offenders that still hasn't been patched. The UIs for both games are barebones but serviceable, and you are right on SFV being slow to fix shit.

Dude was mostly talking about actual content though, and half of that ain't actual content.