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Street Fighter V |OTVII| New Generation - Connection To Haters Was Lost

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mnz

Unconfirmed Member
Didn't see this earlier, but.

Terrible lobby system, dysfunctional online, no arcade mode, overly expensive DLC, buggy, appalling UI/UX, and really, really slow to fix anything.

Also their balance patch waiting a year and still being bad is laughable, when SNK put out a giant, well received patch far quicker.

The lack of depth in SFV gameplay is what got most of my scene onto Xrd. everyone feels like Cody in SF4, piss poor walkspeed, stubby normals, dull gameplan.
Well, I was asking what KOF had over it, I know about SFV's problems.

The balance patch timing is on purpose, they've said many times they don't want to touch the balance too often.

And I will not give you "overpriced DLC". The game gives out enough FM over a year to buy the whole season and the DLC has been on sale all the time.
 
Eh i would've voted for SFV. Even if people didnt like it did bring a surge to the FGC
and exposure of the FGC to the rest of the world, good or bad.

And didnt people like playing Cody? Hmm...
 

Pachinko

Member
People spent more time talking about how SF5 sucks this past year than talking about how good their fighter of choice is. I bet if you take all of the threads about SF5 the past year on gaming side, it would have more posts combined than any fighting game OT outside of this one. lol

Also worth noting that every single SFV thread posted on gaming side has the same 3 day life cycle with the same 50 people ... 45 of which never come into the community thread here. It's almost like people are frustrated they want to buy the game but don't own a PS4 or something.
 
Also worth noting that every single SFV thread posted on gaming side has the same 3 day life cycle with the same 50 people ... 45 of which never come into the community thread here. It's almost like people are frustrated they want to buy the game but don't own a PS4 or something.

Good thing there's a PC version.
 
And I will not give you "overpriced DLC". The game gives out enough FM over a year to buy the whole season and the DLC has been on sale all the time.

I'm fine with most of the (real-money) prices, but costume DLC definitely feels overpriced to me, considering what Capcom used to charge for those. In SFIV you would get 5 costumes for $4, while in SFV you get one costume for $4.
 
PC gamer here, Capcom wasn't getting my vote after the rootkit, honestly if i had the time and money to blow i would have sued Capcom over that shit...
 
That's a lotta haters. Do they know they'll be left behind at this rate!?

And oh man, someone posted the Alioune tweet to shit on SFV. Oh man..
 

Skilletor

Member
Didn't see this earlier, but.

Terrible lobby system, dysfunctional online, no arcade mode, overly expensive DLC, buggy, appalling UI/UX, and really, really slow to fix anything.

Also their balance patch waiting a year and still being bad is laughable, when SNK put out a giant, well received patch far quicker.

The lack of depth in SFV gameplay is what got most of my scene onto Xrd. everyone feels like Cody in SF4, piss poor walkspeed, stubby normals, dull gameplan.

Well...KoF had near broken characters that would have ruined the competitive scene right after launch. They had to patch for the minuscule community that bothers playing the game competitively.

KoF is barely functional online, so even though it has a good lobby system, that doesn't matter much. Input delay netcode is unacceptable. Period. It's impossible for me to play Chipp in GG, for example, unless I have the absolute best network conditions. SF5's netcode is far preferable to me over GG and KoF.

Patching is YMMV. I prefer to let things rock unless it's obviously broken. Capcom is in a rough spot on this with their DLC schedule + tourneys.
 

BadWolf

Member
KoF is barely functional online, so even though it has a good lobby system, that doesn't matter much.

What?

I'm playing the game online almost every day and have excellent connections both with people in the US and Japan (I'm in Canada).

SFV works fine for me too.
 

Pompadour

Member
Also their balance patch waiting a year and still being bad is laughable, when SNK put out a giant, well received patch far quicker.

SNK was able to put out a giant, well received balance patch because the balance was egregiously poor and had several characters that were pegged as broken within a week of launch. There wasn't a ton of research needed to see what the issues were.

Conversely, S1 of SFV was probably the best balanced first version of a Street Fighter ever. It didn't have to put out a quick patch because there were no clear top tiers at launch. Nash was everyone's #1 for the better part of a year until he was deemed high mid-tier.
 

DR2K

Banned
Well...KoF had near broken characters that would have ruined the competitive scene right after launch. They had to patch for the minuscule community that bothers playing the game competitively.

KoF is barely functional online, so even though it has a good lobby system, that doesn't matter much.

Patching is YMMV. I prefer to let things rock unless it's obviously broken. Capcom is in a rough spot on this with their DLC schedule + tourneys.

They need to make a F2P KOF14, online is a ghost town.

If someone told me a year ago that SFV would be in the condition it was today I would have laughed them into orbit. If it weren't for the obscene prize pools the community would have just gone back to SFIV.
 

Skilletor

Member
They need to make a F2P KOF14, online is a ghost town.

If someone told me a year ago that SFV would be in the condition it was today I would have laughed them into orbit. If it weren't for the obscene prize pools the community would have just gone back to SFIV.

98% of the community doesn't benefit from the prize pools, so this argument never made sense to me.

SF players have no problem going back to a game they want to play, or continuing playing an old game if the new one isn't to their liking.
 

BadWolf

Member
SNK was able to put out a giant, well received balance patch because the balance was egregiously poor and had several characters that were pegged as broken within a week of launch. There wasn't a ton of research needed to see what the issues were.

Conversely, S1 of SFV was probably the best balanced first version of a Street Fighter ever. It didn't have to put out a quick patch because there were no clear top tiers at launch. Nash was everyone's #1 for the better part of a year until he was deemed high mid-tier.

SNK put out a giant well received patch because XIV had no beta tests and has a cast of 50 characters.

Think about that, they were able to balance a cast of 50 with one patch.
 

kobu

Member
I will continue to give this game shit while playing other fighting games because I want to enjoy street fighter as well.

I gave capcom a year and they haven't done anything to improve the game.
 

Pompadour

Member
98% of the community doesn't benefit from the prize pools, so this argument never made sense to me.

SF players have no problem going back to a game they want to play, or continuing playing an old game if the new one isn't to their liking.

Yeah, I'm sure if I hopped on the PS4 USF4 now I'd find matches easier than I would in KOF or GG. That may even be the case for my 360 copy of 3S:OE.
 

DR2K

Banned
98% of the community doesn't benefit from the prize pools, so this argument never made sense to me.

SF players have no problem going back to a game they want to play, or continuing playing an old game if the new one isn't to their liking.

Top level players won't leave until the money dries up, a lot of players are genuinely waiting for the game to get good. I don't really think there's that many playing it currently either.
 

Skilletor

Member
Yeah, I'm sure if I hopped on the PS4 USF4 now I'd find matches easier than I would in KOF or GG. That may even be the case for my 360 copy of 3S:OE.

My friend was getting consistent matches in 3S:OE on PS3 less than a month ago. He went back after that team tourney. Could have been an uptick specifically because of that tourney.

Top level players won't leave until the money dries up, a lot of players are genuinely waiting for the game to get good. I don't really think there's that many playing it currently either.

If you say so, man. Can't argue with feels.
 

myco666

Member
Haven't played KOF outside of the demo so can't really say anything about it. However saying that SFV UI/UX is appalling and implying it is more fine in KOF is something I disagree. KOFXIV is in my opinion visually horrible in all areas, even in UI.

But not to derail this thread too far away from SFV I have a question. Does anyone have good info on S2 Birdie? Combos, setups and all that. Playing like it is S1 is kinda okay but I feel like I am not using the character anywhere near optimally. Trying to jump back into this game.
 

mnz

Unconfirmed Member
I don't think we have any numbers outside of the Steam version. Those are very similar to USF4 throughout 2015 before SFV came out, despite fewer people owning it.
 

DR2K

Banned
My friend was getting consistent matches in 3S:OE on PS3 less than a month ago. He went back after that team tourney. Could have been an uptick specifically because of that tourney.



If you say so, man. Can't argue with feels.

We can always use other metrics like numbers and player satisfaction. Evo numbers might be high so there's something to look forward to if you're a SFV fan in 2017.
 
Top level players won't leave until the money dries up, a lot of players are genuinely waiting for the game to get good. I don't really think there's that many playing it currently either.

Hey I made a post about this earlier!
I guess you could make a case that more people are playing SFV for the money than before simply due to the prize pools being bigger than what 4 was (and certainly 3, lul). Additionally, people want to get sponsored, so it makes sense to play the game that has the biggest draw for their sponsors.

On the flipside, there are more people showing up to CPT events than before (at least, last year, which is probably due to SFV hype moreso than the game itself), more entrants at EVO last year (again, hype, but still), and more top players being highlighted. SFV as a job isn't viable for 99 percent of the players. Even people who are sponsored rarely ever get anymore more than being able to be flown out to a few events outta the year. Echo Fox's salary shift is a rarity, which is why most players hold 9-5s.

It's not really the fault of eSports for "forcing" people to play because there still isn't enough cash to go around to keep people doing it en masse and not (partially) enjoy it. It's still a competitive hobby for most which a very, very slim chance to earn a buck. The allure of eSports money ends once people figure out that the chance of winning is much, much lower than the effort they have to put in something they don't like.

That doesn't mean everyone is doing this for fun. Phenom doesn't like the game. K-Brad likes SF4 better. A few Japanese players would rather go back to 4 or 3. But that's just part of it. Some players play because it's the most competitive game, quality be damned. Some play because they like it. It's a mix, and it's always been like that for SF.

The "only doing it for the money' thing is just weird because most of the people playing aren't going to make enough to justify the time spent getting smashed in the face with CCs.

It would be statistically stupid to stick with a game for just the money. Not only is the competition ridiculously high to justify everyone petering around with a game they don't like, most sponsors aren't going to pay for you to play in addition to hotels, flights, etc to shill your stuff on stream. And while it's difficult to tell just how many people are playing the game, recent tournaments still pull in pretty big numbers.

We can always use other metrics like numbers and player satisfaction. Evo numbers might be high so there's something to look forward to if you're a SFV fan in 2017.

How would you gauge player satisfaction? The echo chamber of the internet? SF has historically been trashed on yet played, because it has the biggest fanbase. EVO numbers are going to be much lower than last year because 2016 was when SFV dropped and the game was riding on hype. If it reaches about 2500 then I'd consider it fine, but it's currently leading in the entrants over other games according to Wiz. A better metric to compare would be gauging how many viewers per CPT tournaments overall compared to last year.

It's like people forgot that SF4 got shitblasted every year, people hated playing it, yet people continued to do so. Exact same arguments too.
 
Huh, I don't think I should be playing SF today, I'm literally shaking.
Still managed to beat a Guile that was about 1500 LP higher than me, though I did win one round by accidentally jump anti-airing ..


I don't think we have any numbers outside of the Steam version. Those are very similar to USF4 before SFV came out, despite fewer people owning it.
Steam accounts for about 10% of the sales, if I am not mistaken, so you can probably multiply the active number of players on steam by 10 to get a rough estimate of the player-base at any given time.

Though that of course assumes a similar level of retention between platforms, and a even distribution of PS4 and PC players. Also, keep in mind that the Ultra numbers on Steam were the combined numbers for people who played either AE or Ultra, since Capcom just renamed AE to Ultra and sold DLC that upgraded the game to actual Ultra (which was quite a mess in itself).
 

Skilletor

Member
We can always use other metrics like numbers and player satisfaction. Evo numbers might be high so there's something to look forward to if you're a SFV fan in 2017.

/shrug

I don't care about this conversation. I can log in and get matches fast all night. That's pretty much all I need in a fighting game. Since S2 started, the netcode has felt worse, and that's something I would definitely comment on...but I'm not going to waste too much time complaining about SF5. There's enough out there to play that if I'm not happy with the game, I can move on. I'd rather go post in a thread about a game I care about than complain about the same things in a game that I'm unhappy with.
 
I'm orderin' my Omni today, I guess I'll go with the Sanwa because I don't want to develop some Myoung preference that might pigeonhole me in the future. I should be back to fighting relatively soon, just in time for Kolin.
 

mnz

Unconfirmed Member
Ucchedavāda;230944690 said:
Steam accounts for about 10% of the sales, if I am not mistaken, so you can probably multiply the active number of players on steam by 10 to get a rough estimate of the player-base at any given time.

Though that of course assumes a similar level of retention between platforms, and a even distribution of PS4 and PC players. Also, keep in mind that the Ultra numbers on Steam were the combined numbers for people who played either AE or Ultra, since Capcom just renamed AE to Ultra and sold DLC that upgraded the game to actual Ultra (which was quite a mess in itself).
My guess is actually that more "hardcore" players are on PC now, because of mods and because there is no Xbox version.
Now with this loading mod it might increase even more.

The game sold 1.5 million copies (some of that is still on store shelves) and Steamspy has it at 265k owned on Steam, so it should be more around 20% on PC.
 
There's enough out there to play that if I'm not happy with the game, I can move on. I'd rather go post in a thread about a game I care about than complain about the same things in a game that I'm unhappy with.
Exactly what I'm doing. My post count in the Yakuza 0 thread can attest to that.
 

Skilletor

Member
Exactly what I'm doing.

Yeah, I still love this game, and don't consider talking about the problems with S2 "complaining," really. I'd relegate that stuff to what I'm sure is going on in the SF5 thread currently on gaming side.

I dunno...never been part of a thread as long as I have this one. lol. I love you guys. <3

It's been really cool to see the growth of people through the thread and how conversations re: characters/tiers has changed over the past year. Even if I play SF5 less, I probably won't post in the threads about whatever I'm playing as much as this one.
 

mbpm1

Member
It would be statistically stupid to stick with a game for just the money. Not only is the competition ridiculously high to justify everyone petering around with a game they don't like, most sponsors aren't going to pay for you to play in addition to hotels, flights, etc to shill your stuff on stream. And while it's difficult to tell just how many people are playing the game, recent tournaments still pull in pretty big numbers.

Nobody ever claimed the fgc was smart
 
My guess is actually that more "hardcore" players are on PC now, because of mods and because there is no Xbox version.
Now with this loading mod it might increase even more.

The game sold 1.5 million copies (some of that is still on store shelves) and Steamspy has it at 265k owned on Steam, so it should be more around 20% on PC.

You are completely right about the numbers of PC players. For some reason I had the number of PC players pegged at around 100k, and those are obviously pretty old numbers. That would probably put the number of active players somewhere between 5-10k, at any given time, with the previous caveats.

But I don't think too many people are migrating from PS4 to PC. Most people probably have either a gaming PC or a PS4, but not both, and the "hardcore" players are always a small minority of the player-base.

It would be neat if we actually got statistics on that via CFN (I do love the map), but corporate would obviously never allow that.
 
I liked when Valle was very PC-oriented with WNF and his own SF5 play at launch. Seems like he migrated himself and WNF to PS4s a couple months back though, dunno why.
 

mnz

Unconfirmed Member
I mean it is guesswork, but I feel like I see more streamers and such on PC than I did with SF4.
 
I mean it is guesswork, but I feel like I see more streamers and such on PC than I did with SF4.

One difference could be that it doesn't really matter if you are on PS4 or PC, nowadays, thanks to the cross-play. With cross-play you can stream directly from your PC, avoiding the need to buy additional hardware to capture the output from your console, while still having access to the larger community of SF players. That wasn't the case with SFIV, where PC was kind of a ghetto. So the barrier to entry is lower if you have a PC.


EDIT: I only just thought to look if there is a Twitch streaming app for PS4, so none of what I wrote makes sense.
 

mnz

Unconfirmed Member
Streaming from a PS4 is a pain in the bum if you want anything more complex than what ISDD does.
That's why I mentioned SF4. People were streaming themselves playing on 360.

Imagine it's because Alienware stopped sponsoring them
Yep, Alienware was the only reason anyway. Remember that we just got DirectInput support on the PC version so that was probably a mess to handle when people brought their arcade sticks.
 
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