Support NeoGAF

[TheSpoiler]

Why not? S2's changes are shallow as fuck and not at all comparable to what we've typically received in an SF games 2nd year. It didn't meet sales expectations the first year and is still nowhere near that point. The game's servers and infrastructure seem worse than they did a few months out. Changes they made at the beginning of S2 were rolled back. We still don't have content promised the first year.

This game looks like a shoestring's budget of a shoestring budget. I don't think it's silly to worry about the game's future given the support we've had for it thus far.

Also:

Add me to the final bosses list :

Skilletor - USA - Akuma - http://v-lg.pro/Skillzilla81_ps4

Edit: Actually, some characters got more changes from Vanilla to Super than the characters in SFVS1 to S2. But it varied, as some just an Ultra, or a handful of changes. Looking at the list, it's really spotty.

http://wiki.shoryuken.com/Changelist_StreetFighterIV

Of course, this is a problem mostly done by waiting a full fucking year to update the game's balance per season, which I hope they swerve on a little bit to address problems. If they can add more content (that doesn't include shit like Arcade Mode, which should already be in the game), we'll be seeing a beefier game sooner than other versions of SF.

But that's under the assumption they are making more modes besides Extra Battle, which they might not.

If you aren't worried atleast a little bit by now, I have to question your perception.

Yeah. I mean, until the stuff is fixed, consumers don't have any reason to trust Capcom or really any business. It's all lip service until you see the proof.

On the flipside, more money dumped into the prize pool is indicative of them offering more support for the game. It's a better sign than them leaving it the same or offering something lower. Also, the points distribution is much better, so at least it seems like they are listening to the grievances of CPT.

 

[Ucchedavāda]

Was looking at EU events, since I would like to go some time, and noticed this:

VS FIGHTING 7 - Birmingham, Englad

Cacpcom, please.

 

[mbpm1]

Kolin's just gonna straight up sit in the water and get her furcoat wet.

She knows she won't need it,

Spoiler

she'll be taking it off soon for her summer outfit

 

[Gr1mLock]

Mago is looking really solid at Topanga, they might learn before CPT even starts lol

Chun and Nash nerfs cleaved half of top 8 of japan's best players. Haitani and Kazunoko imo are still gonna be legitimate threats. If the patch doesn't substantially affect character balance, we're either going to see a bunch of Japanese Uriens or see them drowning in pools.

 

[TheSpoiler]

Chun isn't going back to the way she was and I doubt they'll buff her again. Nash? They might give him a few things back. But Akuma and Gief can take their place.

Let's see if pro playersfollow Du's advice - complaining did him no good and was a waste of time, so he just focused on the game and played harder. And that was in response to someone who mained fucking Balrog.

 

[mnz]

Nash and Chun are both well-rounded characters with buttons and decent tools, I can totally see them being a threat again. It all just depends on Capcom's idea of balance, because right now the odds are stacked against them.

 

[Producer]

Chun and Nash nerfs cleaved half of top 8 of japan's best players. Haitani and Kazunoko imo are still gonna be legitimate threats. If the patch doesn't substantially affect character balance, we're either going to see a bunch of Japanese Uriens or see them drowning in pools.

Whos gonna be drowning in pools? Jp players that arent haitani and kazunoko? Crazy talk

 

[TheSpoiler]

Nash and Chun are both well-rounded characters with buttons and decent tools, I can totally see them being a threat again. It all just depends on Capcom's idea of balance, because right now the odds are stacked against them.

Just fix v reversals.

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

Why not? S2's changes are shallow as fuck and not at all comparable to what we've typically received in an SF games 2nd year. It didn't meet sales expectations the first year and is still nowhere near that point. The game's servers and infrastructure seem worse than they did a few months out. Changes they made at the beginning of S2 were rolled back. We still don't have content promised the first year.

This game looks like a shoestring's budget of a shoestring budget. I don't think it's silly to worry about the game's future given the support we've had for it thus far.

"Hey CPT 2016 was a huge success, we even managed to sell an assload of DLC to raise the pricepool! So now we will show....less support for CPT 2017 obviously, because that makes the most sense!"

Also not that any of your points have any bearing on the CPT itself, but how are the changes shallow as fuck?
WW > CE had some balance changes and 4 extra characters, that were already in WW as boss characters.
SFA > SFA2 had some balance changes, custom combo and 5 extra characters.
NG > 2I had the most substantial changes, adding teching, ex moves, taunts, extra moves for characters, balance changes, but still only 4 extra characters.
SF4a > SF4h balance changes, 8 new characters, 6 stages, trials

SFV launch > SFV now balance changes 8 new characters, 6 stages, trials, missions, story mode, stage transitions.
Yes it's still missing arcade mode and "extra battle", but to say the changes are "shallow as fuck" compared to other 2nd entries is simply not true, it's very much better than how the other games were updated, only 2nd impact being more substantial.

 

[The Lone Dragon]

I don't think it's silly to worry about the game's future given the support we've had for it thus far.

If you aren't worried atleast a little bit by now, I have to question your perception.

I think you guys are more worried than Capcom.

Pretty much every time Capcom talks about SF5 they're talking about long term support.
They don't seem panicked or desperate. "Left behind" meme, yada yada.

No sudden, drastic changes in their plans. No sudden "okay here's Sakura and Sagat for free! Please buy our game!!!"

In fact...the opposite "we're going to introduce 5 completely new characters that you all will probably hate at first. But, we're gonna do it anyways, because we want to. And, because we know you'll eventually like them...as usual. See: Decapre. Y'all probably hated Urien in 1997, too, but look at you now, tier wh*ring him 20 years later."

They've acknowledged mistakes and the the rocky road, but at no point have they sounded like they're abandoning the game or CPT. At all.

 

[Producer]

they cant fuck up street fighters 30th anniversary...right

 

[Gr1mLock]

Whos gonna be drowning in pools? Jp players that arent haitani and kazunoko? Crazy talk

goichi,mov, bonchan, eita, yukadon, mago were all placing high last year with very good characters and struggled against international comp in top 32 range. Most of them are doing considerably worse since S2 dropped. I'll put my money on shinakuma666 bodying yukadon with his refined Rog play in losers finals of pool D.

 

[Skilletor]

"Hey CPT 2016 was a huge success, we even managed to sell an assload of DLC to raise the pricepool! So now we will show....less support for CPT 2017 obviously, because that makes the most sense!"

I'm not going to bother responding, again, because I just don't care enough to rebut, and I'm just done responding to Lone Dragon in general.

I will just say that, yes, I AM surprised that this obviously low budget ass game managed to get more money for the competitive year than it did last year and it makes me hopeful for the future. The game is in a sorry state right now, imo, and I'm not going to believe anything they say about its future until I see them try to fix all the general QoL shit surrounding it right now, because it's a mess, and that more than new stages and characters, to me, is necessary for the game to last.

 

[mnz]

I think you guys are more worried than Capcom.

Pretty much every time Capcom talks about SF5 they're talking about long term support.
They don't seem panicked or desperate. "Left behind" meme, yada yada.

No sudden, drastic changes in their plans. No sudden "okay here's Sakura and Sagat for free! Please buy our game!!!"

In fact...the opposite "we're going to introduce 5 completely new characters that you all will probably hate at first. But, we're gonna do it anyways, because we want to. And, because we know you'll eventually like them...as usual. See: Decapre. Y'all probably hated Urien in 1997, too, but look at you now, tier wh*ring him 20 years later."

They've acknowledged mistakes and the the rocky road, but at no point have they sounded like they're abandoning the game or CPT. At all.

I've been a Capcom fan for too long to fall for the talk. I look at the game a year after release and the state of the actual software is still miserable. Atleast that part of the game doesn't fill me with confidence.
But they have definitely kept their promises on two ends: their DLC/content plans and the eSport side of things and I do acknowledge that!

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

Nothing about SF5 is low budget smh.

 

[Ucchedavāda]

"Hey CPT 2016 was a huge success, we even managed to sell an assload of DLC to raise the pricepool! So now we will show....less support for CPT 2017 obviously, because that makes the most sense!"

Last year the increased price pool was thanks to Sony throwing money at Capcom. Capcom themselves do not seem to be in a position where they can just money-hat CPT, and it simply did not occur to me that they would be able to secure as big a sponsorship this year. So it simply did not seem likely to me that the price pool this year would be as big.

The game itself certainly seems to be on a shoe-string budget, for most part, which does not exactly lend itself to optimism towards other aspects of the ecosystem.

 

[mnz]

Nothing about SF5 is low budget smh.

Software support, PR/community work and online structure does not look like a AAA product, sorry.

 

[MrCarter]

CPT stuff is up:http://capcomprotour.com/capcom-pro-tour-2017-details/

They seem like they are really listening to feedback and have even upped the prize pool! Good stuff Capcom.

 

[Zackat]

Did we leave the haters behind yet? Been at work.

 

[Gr1mLock]

Working theory. Haunts is tied up in Lone Dragon's basement.

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

Last year the increased price pool was thanks to Sony throwing money at Capcom. Capcom themselves do not seem to be in a position where they can just money-hat CPT, and it simply did not occur to me that they would be able to secure as big a sponsorship this year. So it simply did not seem likely to me that the price pool this year would be as big.

Uhh the pricepool was literally increased because of DLC sales, what are you talking about?

Software support, PR/community work and online structure does not look like a AAA product, sorry.

So only AAA and "low budget ass games" exist right?

 

[lucebuce12]

Nothing about SF5 is low budget smh.

 

[Edzi]

Nothing about SF5 is low budget smh.

Everything about this game feels low budget.

 

[Skilletor]

Nothing about SF5 is low budget smh.

Software support, PR/community work and online structure does not look like a AAA product, sorry.

^

 

[Producer]

goichi,mov, bonchan, eita, yukadon, mago were all placing high last year with very good characters and struggled against international comp in top 32 range. Most of them are doing considerably worse since S2 dropped. I'll put my money on shinakuma666 bodying yukadon with his refined Rog play in losers finals of pool D.

i dont feel like going through all the match logs to check but i dunno about that. Go1, yukadon and bonchan were in a general decline the latter half of capcup. But mov, mago and eita were always real solid, they probably beat more internationals than they lost to.

 

[Zackat]

That's a lot of dosh

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

That's seriously misguided and honestly deeply insulting to everyone who has worked on this game.

I guess KOF14 is gutter trash indie budget and MKX is just average budget.

 

[mnz]

So only AAA and "low budget ass games" exist right?

I didn't want to go into details again, because we have done that many times already.
- There is no community contact
- Servers are garbage, again, a year after release!
- Software updates have come incredibly slow

We are talking really well known franchise from a big publisher here. That's how I judge it.

edit:

That's seriously misguided and honestly deeply insulting to everyone who has worked on this game.

I guess KOF14 is gutter trash indie budget and MKX is just average budget.

No it's not. There is a lot of love in parts of the story mode, animations, DLC characters etc. In their eSport push as well. Not their fault at all.
And yeah, MKX is the what you have to compare it with.

 

[Skilletor]

That's seriously misguided and honestly deeply insulting to everyone who has worked on this game.

I guess KOF14 is gutter trash indie budget and MKX is just average budget.

MKX's quality and budget shows in every aspect of the game.

SF5 creates barriers between the gameplay and actually enjoying it with other people.

I didn't want to go into details again, because we have done that many times already.
- There is no community contact
- Servers are garbage, again, a year after release!
- Software updates have come incredibly slow

We are talking really well known franchise from a big publisher here. That's how I judge it.

Agreed.

 

[Pachinko]

Nothing about SF5 is low budget smh.

Yeah I don't really get that argument myself , I mean they've spent at least a million a month since September of 2014 building this game up. It's atleast on par with SF4's average monthly budget from 2008 - 2010. It's not some huge AAAA title like MKX or Injustice 2 and it would have been nice to have more out of the gate but it's not like this was made for half a bottle of calpis water dumped on a stale onigiri.

The changes to the pro tour looks pretty solid , only thing I wonder about is why they made the qualifications a little redundant in how they're written up. 30 spots via points except 4 of those 30 are auto quailifiers (regional champs) so it's actually 26 spots via points.

Now I wonder just how many points tournament winners will get ...

 

[MrCarter]

Everything about this game feels low budget.

I wouldn't say everything. The core stuff, like the gameplay, animation and the netcode (apart from the errors) is great. Even better than SFIV I would say, but everything else does certainly feel low budget.

 

[Village]

Working theory. Haunts is tied up in Lone Dragon's basement.

Haunts is a ghost , who is with combofiend working on marvel infinite. He is peter's stand

That's seriously misguided and honestly deeply insulting to everyone who has worked on this game.

I guess KOF14 is gutter trash indie budget and MKX is just average budget.

But you can make good games on budgets, there are good fighters. Just because it suggests that sf didn't have as much budget as other fighters isn't insult and actually based in fact because SF wouldn't have actually come out untill much later if it wasn't sony.

Its just that street fighter has a budget, and is also not that great of game. I wouldn't even sf's budget is low, its just i'm assuming capcom is less willing to shell out money for it

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

How is there no community contact?
So all the blog posts, twitter, reddit, twitch, even posts here on gaf in our humble OT, updates on CFN website, just don't exist?
I understand hyperbole makes your point feel like it has more weight to it, but that's just an outright lie.

I don't experience server issues myself, but they happen to enough people so I agree, but they have mentioned they have something in the works for the march update.
And it really isn't like "AAA" games don't have connectivity issues, even gears 4 has some issue every weekend.

What does software updates even mean? Bug fixes? Content updates? QoL?

 

[Neoxon]

I wouldn't say everything. The core stuff, like the gameplay, animation and the netcode (apart from the errors) is great. Even better than SFIV I would say, but everything else does certainly feel low budget.

This, it seems like most of the budget went towards redoing the characters (veterans & newbies alike) from scratch, & it shows (in a good way for the characters).

 

[Ucchedavāda]

Uhh the pricepool was literally increased because of DLC sales, what are you talking about?

How is that relevant to the up-front price pool dedicated to the CPT by Capcom? The CPT DLC was put up for sale long after the price pool for 2016 CPT was announced (at $500k paid in part by Sony), and the revenue from the CPT DLC was entirely spent during the Capcom Cup Finals that year. Yes, they will likely announce new CPT DLC in 2017, but that does not change the initial price pool that they have available.

So only AAA and "low budget ass games" exist right?

No, and you don't have invent quotes and put words in my mouth.
It seems pretty clear, based on the technical progress of SFV over the last year, that the game is not backed by much of a development team. That, or the rush to get SFV out on schedule left them with such a technical debt that they are now struggling to get anything done at all.

 

[lucebuce12]

I wouldn't say everything. The core stuff, like the gameplay, animation and the netcode (apart from the errors) is great. Even better than SFIV I would say, but everything else does certainly feel low budget.

This.

The Animations, the quality of music, the stages, the designs, the sound design and the overall gameplay feels VERY well made.

It's just everything else around that that feels poorly made or noticeably rushed (UI, netcode, online features, back-end)

 

[TheSpoiler]

To be fair, a lot of people keep mentioning the netcode being worse than a few months, and that's not true to some extent. The actual netcode hasn't been as bad as it was before. I'm not getting as many dropped matches, or rollback issues, or whatever. Which is why I think they are doing shit on the backend and are going to release a finalize patch to bring it from "average" to "good" whenever that hits. Not every match is due to server problems, some people are just on that Micky D's wifi.

The real issue is the errors that seem to come and go at an alarming rate. The ones were people lose points, failed to retrieve data, yadda yadda. That shit needs to be stomped. It came back last week after some time off and it sucked.

Secondly, on community outreach, it's gotten a lot better. We know when Kolin is dropping, the blog post before told us when that news was coming and when she was coming, they told us CPT stuff would drop Monday (and surprisingly enough, it did), and now we have a general idea of when to expect stuff in terms of characters and content. Hell, they even feel willing to patch the game after the ruslting on the internet, but it's TBD if they don't end up overpatching it.

Now, on the flipside of that, it'd be nice to let people know what's coming up. No reason to keep mum on that, and hopefully they can let us know what's coming up this year for SFV. And it would be nice to have a person to send feedback to like Reddit is doing. Maybe it'll help stave off the shitposts in every Capcom related tweet.

As for QoL stuff, that's probably my biggest concern. Some of that stuff really needed to be fixed yesterday, and loading times aren't fun to deal with.

Edit: And the UI stuff is kinda janky, but it's easy to navigate so I'm fine with it.

Tbh I'm already sick of the "haters get left behind" joke. It's become such an ad hominem circle jerk that people constantly bust out instead of (legitimate and well-deserved) criticism whenever they want to dump on the game.

I think that airing grievances is ultimately productive and criticizing products (even ones you enjoy) is conducive to positive change, but when that kind of discussion is peppered with the thousandth repetition of a dumb meme in lieu of something meaningful it grates on me quickly.

I feel like it's not used here maliciously. But if you go on Kappa (lul) or anywhere else it probably is. But I do see your point.

 

[ScraftyDevil]

Tbh I'm already sick of the "haters get left behind" joke. It's become such an ad hominem circle jerk that people constantly bust out instead of (legitimate and well-deserved) criticism whenever they want to dump on the game.

I think that airing grievances is ultimately productive and criticizing products (even ones you enjoy) is conducive to positive change, but when that kind of discussion is peppered with the thousandth repetition of a dumb meme in lieu of something meaningful it grates on me quickly.

 

[Village]

This.

The Animations, the quality of music, the stages, the designs, the sound design and the overall gameplay feels VERY well made.

It's just everything else around that that feels poorly made or visibly rushed (UI, netcode, online features, back-end)

The character stuff is very well done , and a lot of the stages. The music we can have a converstion about

 

[Producer]

1 year ago we couldnt even buy any dlc because they couldnt implement the zenny currency. Now we can buy dlc

Sfv best game

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

No, and you don't have invent quotes and put words in my mouth.
It seems pretty clear, based on the technical progress of SFV over the last year, that the game is not backed by much of a development team. That, or the rush to get SFV out on schedule left them with such a technical debt that they are now struggling to get anything done at all.

Uhh...I wasn't even replying to you.

 

[Ucchedavāda]

Uhh...I wasn't even replying to you.

Derp. Sorry about that, my mistake.

 

[Village]

I feel like it's not used here maliciously. But if you go on Kappa (lul) or anywhere else it probably is. But I do see your point.

Don't worry much like arcade mode,classic outfits, and stages soon modders will do the thing capcom should have done yesterday

Watch one day they come out like

" so we made better netcode its this mod you can download. We also made entirely new characters we just made sagat"

 

[lucebuce12]

The character stuff is very well done , and a lot of the stages. The music we can have a converstion about

The music in this game is TERRIFIC imo.

Sure there are a few downers and a few that aren't OUTSTANDING but as a whole there are a LOT of terrific tracks.

1 year ago we couldnt even buy any dlc because they couldnt implement the zenny currency. Now we can buy dlc

Sfv best game

We've come far!

 

[TheSpoiler]

Don't worry much like arcade mode,classic outfits, and stages soon modders will do the thing capcom should have done yesterday

Watch one day they come out like

" so we made better netcode its this mod you can download. We also made entirely new characters we just made sagat"

Arcade mode will drop this week and you won't even hear a peep about it.

 

[Gr1mLock]

i dont feel like going through all the match logs to check but i dunno about that. Go1, yukadon and bonchan were in a general decline the latter half of capcup. But mov, mago and eita were always real solid, they probably beat more internationals than they lost to.

Who knows what they'll change in the next patch though. It really doesn't take a whole lot to swing this game in one direction or the other. S2 as it is They might buff Alex.

 

[Skilletor]

To be fair, a lot of people keep mentioning the netcode being worse than a few months, and that's not true to some extent. The actual netcode hasn't been as bad as it was before. I'm not getting as many dropped matches, or rollback issues, or whatever. Which is why I think they are doing shit on the backend and are going to release a finalize patch to bring it from "average" to "good" whenever that hits. Not every match is due to server problems, some people are just on that Micky D's wifi.
.

My experience has been much worse and it all coincides with s2 dropping, so I'm not sure what it could be. I'd say like 85% of my matches in S1 were great, with about 10% with visible, but playable rollback, and 5% unplayable.

Now it's more like 60%/25%/15%. A large portion of playing this game is now wasting my time, and when I play ranked, if I do get a great match, a lot of the time the results don't get uploaded (unless I lose, lololol). It is so much worse at this point that I just do not want to play.

 

[mnz]

How is there no community contact?
So all the blog posts, twitter, reddit, twitch, even posts here on gaf in our humble OT, updates on CFN website, just don't exist?
I understand hyperbole makes your point feel like it has more weight to it, but that's just an outright lie.

Who is SFV's community manager and where/how can you contact them? Haunts did a lot of that, but that wasn't even his job.
Their communication is one-sided through their blog. They've never answered questions about things like loading times and the rest of the long list of QoL improvements. Stuff people have been asking about forever.

I don't experience server issues myself, but they happen to enough people so I agree, but they have mentioned they have something in the works for the march update.
And it really isn't like "AAA" games don't have connectivity issues, even gears 4 has some issue every weekend.

I don't believe you when you say you don't experience server issues. That's like half of the online experience on certain days.
And yeah, other games have problems, too.

What does software updates even mean? Bug fixes? Content updates? QoL?

I'm not really talking about content, I think they held up their end of the bargain on that front. QoL and bug fixes, yes.

 

[ScraftyDevil]

I feel like it's not used here maliciously. But if you go on Kappa (lul) or anywhere else it probably is. But I do see your point.

It's mostly used sarcastically on here rather than maliciously but the dead horse has been beaten so thoroughly by this point that not even the glue factory wants it.

I'm just sick of it as a joke. If you wanna dump on the game creatively then go ahead; it's been done hilariously (see: that 1 year anniversary "trailer" someone made and even this very thread title); just don't use it like a crutch when you want to make fun of the game but don't have anything original to say.

 

[Village]

The music in this game is TERRIFIC imo.

Sure there are a few downers and a few that aren't OUTSTANDING but as a whole there are a LOT of terrific tracks.

We've come far!

Eh, I feel like a lot of music is just kind of fine?

Some trakcs are real good, like i'm one of the only 5 people who like laura's theme. ( even though I just modded it to be this ), but a lot of it I just find to be ok. And i've modded a lot of the music out when given the oppertunity. Its not bad, its just kinda eh. I like 3rd strike because they took chances and tried new stuff, its why I like karins new theme. But kens theme is kens theme is kens them, and its fine , but i've heard it