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[Spuck-uk]

Technicalities.

4 hit combo into reset into grab. There lol

Anyone else expected more than CPT details for today's announcement?

Let me clarify then.

Not a combo, and a poor choice for a reset, she has better options.

 

[MrCarter]

I was hype, then I started up the game again and realized how broken everything still is. Kolin showing up isn't gonna fix any of that.

I was hype until I realized the release was further away then I thought so I settled down until I could play her.

also what luce said

I'm still hype! Can't wait to try her. She will be an interesting character to look out for.

KoF14 was a complete game at release, and has had way more extensive (and better) balance patching and a graphical overhaul, on what must be a far smaller budget.

MKX is THE example of how to make a fighting game that actually sells well (and they completely revamped their netcode to make it best in class, and they have better balance patching than SFV as well).

Do you work for Capcom?

No offence, but you lost me at KOF "graphical overhaul" (which looks PS2 like at best) and MKX "balance patching" (which they chopped and changed every other month) and thier netcode was trash for a year. Also, I don't think you have to be a Capcom employee to commend a game - it's just a difference of opinion.

 

[TheSpoiler]

Not that hyped for Kolin but I am hyped to see people play her since she's too technical for my tastes.

KoF14 was a complete game at release, and has had way more extensive (and better) balance patching and a graphical overhaul, on what must be a far smaller budget.

MKX is THE example of how to make a fighting game that actually sells well (and they completely revamped their netcode to make it best in class, and they have better balance patching than SFV as well).


Do you work for Capcom?

Did this dude just say that NRS has better balance patching than any other game? lol my dude that game changed the meta way too constantly due to overpatching. It's like an example of what not to do.

 

[Spuck-uk]

I'm still hype! Can't wait to try her. She will be an interesting character to look out for.



No offence, but you lost me at KOF "graphical overhaul" (which looks PS2 like at best) and MKX "balance patching" (which they chopped and changed every other month) and thier netcode was trash for a year. Also, I don't think you have to be a Capcom employee to commend a game - it's just a difference of opinion.

You don't have to like the graphical overhaul they did a few months to respect the fact that that they listened to complaints, and redid their whole lighting system. Or that MKX redid their entire network code, while Capcom does... DLC characters and doesn't fix fundamental issues with online play and UI that have been there from day one.

It's not a difference of opinion, Capcom have just been worse at supporting and fixing their game than their competitors.

 

[MrCarter]

You don't have to like the graphical overhaul they did a few months to respect the fact that that they listened to complaints, and redid their whole lighting system. Or that MKX redid their entire network code, while Capcom does... DLC characters and doesn't fix fundamental issues with online play and UI that have been there from day one.

It's not a difference of opinion, Capcom have just been worse at supporting and fixing their game than their competitors.

That's debateable. There are many things which they listened to in terms of feedback and whatnot and have implemented some features since release that have been welcome. Capcom "does DLC characters" (which you can gain for free if you want) because it keeps the game fresh and the fact they are bringing in new characters with new and versatile play styles (Kolin) should be praised.

Again, MKX had netcode issues throughout its first year while SFV had bad netcode during launch and managed to smooth things out - the only problem now are those hideous server errors, which I'm hoping will be fixed soon. So yes, while you think Capcom don't support thier game others may think differently - and that's fine. Capcom will never have the budget of a NRS game (due to Warner Bros funding) but they still outdo them in terms of gameplay.

 

[Ucchedavāda]

Did this dude just say that NRS has better balance patching than any other game? lol my dude that game changed the meta way too constantly due to overpatching. It's like an example of what not to do.

On top of being too frequent, the re-balancing of MKX also mostly resembled a drunken walk. It did not seem to me like NRS had a strong grasp of how to balance the game in the first place, neither in the case of tweaking existing characters nor when adding new characters. There's a lot to praise about MKX (regardless of how salty I was about the PC launch), but that does not include the balancing.

 

[ThatCrazyGuy]

If you do it alot, you must be good at it.

See Kobe.

 

[mnz]

Been catching up on some gameplay, because so many tournaments happened this weekend. This was probably my favorite bit (top right): https://clips.twitch.tv/SmallCoweringArugulaFUNgineer

And I will check out Kolin tomorrow and then take a break from the game until they improve some stuff.

edit:
Street Fighter vs. Darkstalkers covers: http://www.udonentertainment.com/blog/news/street-fighter-vs-darkstalkers-2-covers-revealed

 

[Zombegoast]

A3 was.. something else all together.

The game has a lot of dumbshit like AI Birdie's Bullhorn or Cody's V-ism.

But at least it was fun.

 

[Spuck-uk]

Again, MKX had netcode issues throughout its first year while SFV had bad netcode during launch and managed to smooth things out - the only problem now are those hideous server errors, which I'm hoping will be fixed soon.

 

[Spuck-uk]

The game has a lot of dumbshit like AI Birdie's Bullhorn or Cody's V-ism.

But at least it was fun.

V-Ism was completely busted and made A3 a horrible mess at high level. Without that -ism it's a lot more fun.

 

[myco666]

Whats wrong with it? Been getting mostly lag free matches since couple of weeks of launch. Matchmaking, lobby search and server errors are the only problems but those aren't netcode things I think.

 

[mnz]

Yeah, I don't mind the netcode at all, except for the one-sided lag thing. Another thing they have never commented on afaik.
The problem is filtering, match-making and the servers losing match-data etc. The netcode itself is fine.

 

[OmegaTreeFish]

Whats wrong with it? Been getting mostly lag free matches since couple of weeks of launch. Matchmaking, lobby search and server errors are the only problems but those aren't netcode things I think.

Similar here. 95% of my games are lag free. Sometimes i might get a match where its just suuuper laggy but its rare. Other than that its maybe just the odd moment that is more likely due to someone being on wifi. I have played games that have 3 and even 2 bars that seem to run just fine. However on search i set it to 4-5 bar only and manually accept. At somepoint you have to accept there will always be some issues caused from the users end.

The only thing i dont like about it is its random boughts of taking ages to find a match. Some nights its finds a new match within 30 seconds. Some times it takes 5-10 mins. Thats where it need improvement.

 

[lucebuce12]

In an ideal world, I would like to see more improvements to the netcode. Considering how they now have official online tournaments, you'd think they'd put in more effort to make the netcode as good as can be. Just fixing the one-sided rollback alone would make a difference.

I used to think the netcode was pretty good, then I played Killer Instinct and MKXL's new netcode and my world changed.

 

[allintospace]

Is there a reason Wolfkrone always sits behind the player he's matched with? Is he far sighted or hoping to glance at inputs?

 

[Ucchedavāda]

Is there a reason Wolfkrone always sits behind the player he's matched with? Is he far sighted or hoping to glance at inputs?

Yes.

Spoiler

Actually, IIRC, the justification given was that he didn't want other players to look at his inputs.

 

[mnz]

Yeah he's looking at inputs.
I remember a stream where someone tried to move back behind him, then Wolfkrone would move back again and so on. Pretty funny.

 

[allintospace]

Yeah he's looking at inputs.
I remember a stream where someone tried to move back behind him, then Wolfkrone would move back again and so on. Pretty funny.

Oh my god, please tell me you know where to find it.

Would he get away with this at EVO? There's no rule against it I'm guessing,

Spoiler

cause no one till now's been that petty

.

 

[Zombegoast]

In an ideal world, I would like to see more improvements to the netcode. Considering how they now have official online tournaments, you'd think they'd put in more effort to make the netcode as good as can be. Just fixing the one-sided rollback alone would make a difference.

I used to think the netcode was pretty good, then I played Killer Instinct and MKXL's new netcode and my world changed.

I've been playing SFXT on PSN and that game has been lag free. I would see matches stutter between rounds but matches end up completely smooth. SFV fucked up my perception of online fighting games.

 

[mnz]

Oh my god, please tell me you know where to find it.

Would he get away with this at EVO? There's no rule against it I'm guessing,

Spoiler

cause no one till now's been that petty

.

I'm not even completely sure it was him. No way I could find it.

I've been playing SFXT on PSN and that game has been lag free. I would see matches stutter between rounds but matches end up completely smooth. SFV fucked up my perception of online fighting games.

SFV's netcode is based on SFxT if I remember correctly. So, yeah...

Ono: No, I think it's probably impossible for netcode technology more advanced than what was used in Street Fighter X Tekken (rollbacks) to be implemented in the current generation of gaming consoles. So rather than look for such a solution, we're taking the netcode technology used in SFxT, and looking into ways to tune it for better performance [for Street Fighter 5].

 

[Ucchedavāda]

SFV's netcode is based on SFxT if I remember correctly. So, yeah...

LOL at SFxT having the most advanced netcode possible on current consoles.

 

[sixteen-bit]

Yes.

Spoiler

Actually, IIRC, the justification given was that he didn't want other players to look at his inputs.

I wonder if more events will start doing head to head setups

 

[mnz]

LOL at SFxT having the most advanced netcode possible on current consoles.

Well, name another 3D game with rollback netcode on 360/PS3. Pretty sure it's the only one and there's a reason for that. It's taxing on the hardware.

 

[Pompadour]

Well, name another 3D game with rollback netcode on 360/PS3. Pretty sure it's the only one and there's a reason for that. It's taxing on the hardware.

This is why I suspect GGXrd uses delay-based netcode. They're shackled to the PS3 in order to get Japanese console sales and the game has to cut corners to run on that system already

 

[Ucchedavāda]

Well, name another 3D game with rollback netcode on 360/PS3. Pretty sure it's the only one and there's a reason for that. It's taxing on the hardware.

The current generation of consoles at the time of that interview (January 2015) were the PS4 and XBoxOne, not the PS3 and XBox360. And they were targeting the PS4.

 

[mnz]

The current generation of consoles at the time of that interview (January 2015) were the PS4 and XBoxOne, not the PS3 and XBox360. And they were targeting the PS4.

Ah, you're right. I misunderstood.

 

[Pompadour]

The SFV netcode feels like the SFxT netcode for the most part, especially that it was abysmal when it launched and got much better over time. However, SFxT as a game seemed to suffer more when conditions weren't good probably due to the nature of how it played and general game speed. I've always assumed a lot of V's gameplay decisions were to accomodate online play and not to make it more approachable for casuals (which was just a side effect).

As for the most advanced netcode possible, I feel like KI has it by running the game state at 90 fps. Of course, the game itself suffers in the visuals department due to this trade off.

 

[MCD250]

I'm pretty interested in Kolin, but she just looks too complicated for me to use. I suspect she'll probably turn out to be a little like S2 Ibuki (though prolly in a more pronounced way): very solid in the hands of a certain kind of player who can master how technical she is. We'll see.

Either way, I am excited

Spoiler

for her bomb ass costumes.

 

[mbpm1]

More realistic scenario: Kolin is Juri 2.0

Ibuki Season 1 2.0

 

[MrCarter]

Great rebuttal there.

10/10.

There is no need for listening and debate if you act like a clown mate.

 

[Ucchedavāda]

Ah, you're right. I misunderstood.

On the other hand, they did manage to tax the PS4 with this netcode, so you are not entirely wrong. That could perhaps be a problem with the netcode itself, if it is not sufficiently optimized, or perhaps result from not having enough head-room left when running other game-related tasks. Which suggests that one way in which people might be able to improve their online experience would be to run it on a PS4 Pro in "boost" mode. That has already been shown to improve load times.

 

[Skilletor]

The game has a lot of dumbshit like AI Birdie's Bullhorn or Cody's V-ism.

But at least it was fun.

Nah:

https://youtu.be/KGF_a--g9Xw?t=173

A3 is fucking garbage.

 

[mnz]

Oh, rollback netcode is definitely heavy on the hardware. I was just thinking he was talking about ps360.
From how I understand it, the game has to remember several old game states and put them back into memory when rollback occurs. Not sure if it has to remember every frame, though. Maybe some programmer can dive deeper into it.

From an old interview:

Seth Killian: GGPO has been fantastic for 2D-style fighting games, and the dev teams here have been very pleased with our results.

That said, it is not as easy to impelement for games that use 3D models and other very processor and/or memory intensive functions. Those processor and memory intensive functions make roll back much more, "expensive," and depending on the design architecture, it can be prohibitive in some cases. That doesn't mean those challenges can't be solved, but it does mean it's definitely not as simple as it might sound.

 

[mbpm1]

Kinda miss Seth

 

[MrCarter]

Kinda miss Seth

Same.

 

[ElFly]

Oh, rollback netcode is definitely heavy on the hardware. I was just thinking he was talking about ps360.
From how I understand it, the game has to remember several old game states and put them back into memory when rollback occurs. Not sure if it has to remember every frame, though. Maybe some programmer can dive deeper into it.

From an old interview:

maybe it'd be less heavy if they didn't fucking track all the animations in the background

 

[Ucchedavāda]

Oh, rollback netcode is definitely heavy on the hardware. I was just thinking he was talking about ps360.
From how I understand it, the game has to remember several old game states and put them back into memory when rollback occurs. Not sure if it has to remember every frame, though. Maybe some programmer can dive deeper into it.

From an old interview:

You probably don't need to store every frame, since you could potentially snapshot the state every Nth frame and then only store inputs between those. Then you would fast-forward from the youngest possible snapshot on rollback, instead of from the actual frame the input belonged to. That in turn would increase the average number of frames that had to be re-calculated. Whether or not that is actually worthwhile would depend on how cheaply you could fast-forward (CPU / GPU), and how expensive storing all frames vs just input is (RAM). This is just me speculating, though.

 

[sixteen-bit]

I looked at the CPT trailer on the Street Fighter youtube channel and the top comment is someone complaining for them to add Arcade mode.

I feel really divorced from mainstream sentiment on this game, lol.

 

[Sayad]

I looked at the CPT trailer on the Street Fighter youtube channel and the top comment is someone complaining for them to add Arcade mode.

I feel really divorced from mainstream sentiment on this game, lol.

Wonder if Capcom felt the same way after launch!...

 

[Ucchedavāda]

I looked at the CPT trailer on the Street Fighter youtube channel and the top comment is someone complaining for them to add Arcade mode.

I feel really divorced from mainstream sentiment on this game, lol.

We're probably seeing different comments, but here the top comment is somebody complaining about people complaining about the missing arcade mode. On the other hand, the top comment on the video on the Capcom Fighters channel is "Fix your fucking game first" ¯\_(&#12484_/¯

 

[Skilletor]

I looked at the CPT trailer on the Street Fighter youtube channel and the top comment is someone complaining for them to add Arcade mode.

I feel really divorced from mainstream sentiment on this game, lol.

If/when an arcade mode is added, the statement will just change to, "It took them XYZ amount of months just to add an arcade mode!"

Doesn't matter at this point.

 

[Pompadour]

If/when an arcade mode is added, the statement will just change to, "It took them XYZ amount of months just to add an arcade mode!"

Doesn't matter at this point.

The complaints about Arcade Mode are super disingenuous. I think it only gained traction because it's a low effort game mode that's always been there, not because there's anything fundamentally great about basic arcade modes.

 

[mnz]

I looked at the CPT trailer on the Street Fighter youtube channel and the top comment is someone complaining for them to add Arcade mode.

I feel really divorced from mainstream sentiment on this game, lol.

Whenever @StreetFighter tweets people immediately answer asking for Arcade Mode. Same thing happens on Capcom-Unity.

 

[Pompadour]

Whenever @StreetFighter tweets people immediately answer asking for Arcade Mode. Same thing happens on Capcom-Unity.

Once Arcade Mode is released it will become the new "When's Alex trailer?"

 

[MrCarter]

"Arcade mode" seems like it's actually become a meme now.

 

[sixteen-bit]

Kinda miss Seth

Killian, right?

 

[Pompadour]

Killian, right?

No new final boss in SFV blew but if that's the cost of not having another Seth in this game I'll take it.

 

[mbpm1]

Killian, right?

Yeah, but also Seth

 

[Ucchedavāda]

The complaints about Arcade Mode are super disingenuous. I think it only gained traction because it's a low effort game mode that's always been there, not because there's anything fundamentally great about basic arcade modes.

I don't really see anything disingenuous about that, unless you are referring to people who only look for ways to criticize the game and don't actually want it. Arcade mode one of the most obvious things you'd expect in a fighting game, in terms of single-player content, but instead we got a poorly balanced and bare-bones survival mode, character stories that might as well not have any game-play. Then months later we got a story that is worth playing once, and even later we got VS CPU mode. And none of this serve the same purpose as plain old arcade mode, so people naturally asks for that with which they are familiar. Could other modes be great? Sure. Do I think that Capcom is ever going to add anything like that? Hell no. So why bother asking?