No idea when, but some info is supposed to come early march.
No idea what it will look like. Probably not as big as the S2 changes.
He's one of the best characters right now, come on.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Street Fighter V |OTVII| New Generation - Connection To Haters Was Lost
- Thread starter Reizo Ryuu
- Start date
- Status
The HP counter is a good AA, and so is the V-Skill for certain ranges. Naturally, she also has an air throw she can use; she actually has way more AA options than some other characters. I prefer st.HP as my go-to AA instead of cr.HP because, although cr.HP shrinks her hurtbox downwards, it hits at a very specific angle that whiffs at ranges where people will usually jump at me. st.HP works for me more than cr.HP, and it's only 1 frame slower.
st. hp has a bigger hitbox?
I don't know if it does, but it definitely has a hitbox that hits closer and higher to her than cr.HP, which is akin to Nash's cr.MP. It's more suitable for a long-range AA, but bad for close-range AA.
I dunno, man, I dunno if that's how Gen's death came across to me. It sort of seemed shocking to me (not to mention painful). Like it's not characteristic of Akuma anf evidence of change in his character. In Alpha, not killing Gen was the honorable, respectful thing to do from Akuma's POV, because it didn't seem like a fair fight; the fact that he seems to not care anymore about that is, I think, meant to be seen as a sign of him discarding his principles for the sake of violence. That's why I think we really are meant to feel like Akuma's changing, abd even other characters seem to comment on it (Sim, for ex)
TheSpoiler
Member
Urien could get hit with ten nerfs and still be top tier.
Him not fighting ryu also felt like a change
That's how messed up he is right now.
That's not the problem, they could hit him with like three or so nerfs and completely ruin what makes him so fun to use(see S1 > S2 Vega), regardless of where he end up on tier lists!
TheSpoiler
Member
Well, had the thing with Ryu not happened, I would have assumed that. But then again, he only didn't kill Gen because Gen wasn't a challenge before. He knows Gen wants to go out guns ablazin', and who better to grant that than Akuma? Gen bugged Akuma a bunch of times but because Akuma only seeks to have a better fight and isn't interested in helping anyone, he told him to piss off.
But now, he kills Gen so that dude can have peace. It's not like Gen was just waiting for the bus and Akuma comes around the corner and lights him up. The old dude simply wanted to die and Akuma granted that request. Gen comments on him becoming a beast, and Akuma questions this and yadda yadda.
Cut to him fighting Ryu. Now, at that point, he should have killed Ryu, especially if he's turning into this beastly asshole. But he doesn't. In fact, they have a chat and Akuma is like "come find me when you figure out your path". If Akuma was out to murder fools that fight him now, why didn't he neck Ryu? Because the dude still wants a good fight, and deep down, Akuma is still human. That was sorta the point of the story, is that Akuma can't really sever the bonds of humanity, or at least as easy as he thinks.
You just salty cause your girl got hit.
But you aren't wrong.
Then again, I honestly think the biggest issue lies with the AR stuff over anything else.
That's why I hope and pray that Capcom doesn't listen to the community. They'll take away the fun parts because adapting is painful and takes work. Urien needs a few nerfs, but not enough that it removes the fun outta his character. So either they nerf him a little but down to a better level and people complain, or they nerf him a lot and people complain that the fun is gone.
No winning.
man i've been doing it wrong. I've been using jab and sMP for anti airs lol. Her jMP seemed good too.
What!? Vskill is an INSANE anti air
What, R. Mika? Why would I still be salty about something that happened months ago and that isn't relevant in the current meta anymore? If I cared about that, I'd be sticking with Balrog. No, what matters right now is how stupid Urien and Laura are, and I'll rejoice when they get nerfed.
UcchedavÄda
Member
Capcom listening to the community? I don't think you need to worry too much about that.
TheSpoiler
Member
You'll get you revenge.
It's coming.
Ucchedavāda;231582988 said:
This will be the time that they do.
And they'll listen to the people having a cryfest.
Reizo Ryuu
Member
Big startup and recovery though.
They will listen and buff Urien.
The parry part starts up in 8 frames
so it's not too bad. Recovery is true though
The parry part starts up in 8 frames
lol
That they're framedata are some of the worst in the game for fireballs, in a game where all fireballs excluding Guile's are ass!
CountBlack
Member
Everyone is gonna downplay their main characters until the end of time
stn
Member
Urien's fireball is not "ass." Its not Guile-tier--then again, nothing in this game is--but its still solid. Just don't expect to keep your opponent away with it for a whole round. Urien doesn't have the same AA options as Guile and he's also more of a mid-range hybrid than a pure defensive zoner. Guile is in a league of his own.
DoubleTake
Member
People are crazy if they think he's messed up. The only nerfs he needs are cr. MK not being +2 on block and MAYBE EX tackle. Thats it. If they mess with anything else theyll ruin the character.
I wonder how upset people would be if the balance changes hit sometime later in the season. Like say June...
No, that's not it. Above average health character, great damage output, huge comeback potential, fantastic AAs, a fireball, a DP, great range, great pokes, good mobility, huge throw range, crazy ass EX tackle, an uninterruptible OH TC sequence that leads into V-Trigger bullshit, an actually pretty good V-Skill, etc.
If "ruin the character" means "make him less godly," then so be it.
Hide your tech 'cause the Capcops are coming for your main.
Fair point on the Ryu thing. I hadn't considered.
TheSpoiler
Member
When people say Urien is ridiculous they don't mean he's completely busted. He still has matchups that aren't completely in his favor, both on paper and in game. His EX headbutt can be CC'd and he has garbage defense. You can bully him, but the trigger makes that hard because v-reversals are butt. Even putting that back to normal will help people deal with him and the top tiers. But he really only needs a few slight nerfs after that. He can stay top tier so long as he gets some scaling fixes and has to work harder to get his AR setups going. Maybe a little less damage on a few meterless combos or maybe not.
Better to do it now than later.
To be fair, the conversation with Ryu was babble so I would understand if most people glossed over that.
Better to do it now than later.
To be fair, the conversation with Ryu was babble so I would understand if most people glossed over that.
Urien's defense cannot be garbage when he literally has the same options as most of the cast. In fact, he has a DP (CC'd just like literally all of the others), which innately means that people need to constantly be thinking about it when it's their turn to pressure. His throw range means shimmies are less effective (along with his cr.MK > V-Trigger), and he has more health than other characters so he can withstand more punishment. He also has an EX knee drop, which lets him get out of the corner if there's a gap in the opponent's pressure because they're trying to bait out a DP or something.
When I say he's ridiculous, I do mean he's on the verge of actually being busted.
Urien definitely needs tweaks, people saying he's fine are nuts. Though with that being said, they need to be very very careful how they balance him, since he's arguably the character who's the most fun to play AND watch due to juggles and Aegis.
Laura and Rog need the nerf bat bad though. No sympathy, I want them both to be Alex tier.
Laura and Rog need the nerf bat bad though. No sympathy, I want them both to be Alex tier.
killu4what
Member
Make his ex headbutt have more recovery on whiff. Maybe make it so you can nuetral jump the shoulders or the headbutt. That's all I would change.
Low mk can GTFOH as well
Low mk can GTFOH as well
ScraftyDevil
Banned
If I could change three things about Urien, they'd be thus:
-Decrease the frame advantage of crMK. It's ridiculous that such a strong poke that he can also land a game-ending V-Trigger cancel off of is entirely safe on block; knocking it down a peg would go a long way to making Urien's lategame pressure feel a lot less impossible
-Either increase the startup on EX Chariot Tackle or make it as unsafe as the non-EX version. A move with that kind of utility and damage should not be both insanely fast and safe; as it stands EX Tackle is Urien's multitool as it lets him start pressure, end combos, whiff punish and steal games with unparalleled ease.
-Slightly decrease the priority on crHP. I'm fine with it being a strong anti-air but the fact that he can confirm a 250+ damage combo from it even on counterhit is a bit nuts.
This is coming from someone who mains Urien btw, so I'm not motivated by salt or w/e. Legit think that he can be made reasonable with just a few tweaks, but they have to be made carefully so as not to sacrifice his fun factor.
-Decrease the frame advantage of crMK. It's ridiculous that such a strong poke that he can also land a game-ending V-Trigger cancel off of is entirely safe on block; knocking it down a peg would go a long way to making Urien's lategame pressure feel a lot less impossible
-Either increase the startup on EX Chariot Tackle or make it as unsafe as the non-EX version. A move with that kind of utility and damage should not be both insanely fast and safe; as it stands EX Tackle is Urien's multitool as it lets him start pressure, end combos, whiff punish and steal games with unparalleled ease.
-Slightly decrease the priority on crHP. I'm fine with it being a strong anti-air but the fact that he can confirm a 250+ damage combo from it even on counterhit is a bit nuts.
This is coming from someone who mains Urien btw, so I'm not motivated by salt or w/e. Legit think that he can be made reasonable with just a few tweaks, but they have to be made carefully so as not to sacrifice his fun factor.
CountBlack
Member
I can see Rashid being the next "PLS NERF NOW" character after the patch if he gets buffed again.
Maybe Gief too but at least he has some bad MU's.
I think Guile is too fundamentally solid to really be too affected by whatever nerfs may come his way. His gameplan will still be the same unless they change/nerf his V-Skill. Maybe give it cooldown or something lol
Urien is in a spot right now where I don't necessarily want him fundamentally changed because he's really fun to play (not to play against tho) but he is a bit OD. Ex Shoulder tackle has to either be negative on block so there's actual risk in using it randomly in neutral or a bit slower so you don't get bopped for walking forward lol. I'm fine with how the Aegis Reflector is currently. They nerfed every ex divekick in the game but Urien's ex knee is pretty much a brick flying at your face from above, I'd rather see more characters have options for it than to just nerf it though. Most of the time you're forced to block or forever hold the knees. Also I'd make his st.HP CC do a knockback type crush counter like Balrog's st.HP and make his charged st.HP do a regular crumple situation. Right now counter poking vs Urien is kinda hanging yourself. Urien is one of the most fun & versatile characters to play in the game though, so to make him not fun anymore would be really disappointing.
Balrog's OD as well but I don't necessarily want to see him get nerfed either. Maybe either make his ex straight/low -2 or -3 so it's definitely not his turn afterwards or make it a bit slower so you don't get bopped for walking forward. Same issue has ex shoulder from Urien though, the input lag in the game makes moves like this in the game a lot stronger than they should be since walking & blocking isn't always the most viable approach vs those specials. If I were to nerf Rog in one way though, I'd revert his cr.MK to hitting mid and not low. Keep the 2nd hit of the target combo hitting low though. I'd also make his cr.LK a mid as well so the V-Trigger mixup doesn't result in an instant loss lol. So this way you can walk backwards against Balrog safely instead of kinda being forced to crouch block and for him to do his cr.MK TC because you already know it's coming because trying to play footsies in that situation usually isn't in your favour.
It's hard not to be biased and downplay Laura because after having to struggle for a year, finally getting to eat, then after 2 months people (who ate all of last year) want to take your plate away because they're not enjoying the taste of their own medicine but I digress.
Laura doesn't need the +1 elbow. Nobody asked for it in the first place lol. If it were to stay, maybe just off of ex command throw only instead of getting it off of many different situations. She really doesn't need it.
Revert her st.MK to 6f again, but keep it +3 on hit. An issue she had in S1 was getting opportunities in neutral since she didn't have many links outside of counter hit. So it'd still go into cr.MP on CH, st.LP on regular hit, but won't combo into st.MK on counter hit and it won't be as good/fast in neutral.
That's another issue that comes up. Attacks into VT on block shouldn't put you in a mixup situation imo. Making them maybe -2 on block, but keeping it really + on hit is how it should be. Laura does st.MK on block - VT cancel then it's a 50/50 of grab or attack. Lot's of characters do put you into situations like these off of VT cancel on block, but it shouldn't still be their turn after. You hit confirmed wrong, you shouldn't still be able to take advantage of it lol.
If they were to fix in the input lag and get it down to like 4f, all the top tier characters are inadvertently nerfed. Lots of characters are nerfed that way in general, but the game would be so much better to play.
Also Necalli is still getting away with robbery in broad daylight but everyone's pointing fingers elsewhere smfh
Maybe Gief too but at least he has some bad MU's.
I think Guile is too fundamentally solid to really be too affected by whatever nerfs may come his way. His gameplan will still be the same unless they change/nerf his V-Skill. Maybe give it cooldown or something lol
Urien is in a spot right now where I don't necessarily want him fundamentally changed because he's really fun to play (not to play against tho) but he is a bit OD. Ex Shoulder tackle has to either be negative on block so there's actual risk in using it randomly in neutral or a bit slower so you don't get bopped for walking forward lol. I'm fine with how the Aegis Reflector is currently. They nerfed every ex divekick in the game but Urien's ex knee is pretty much a brick flying at your face from above, I'd rather see more characters have options for it than to just nerf it though. Most of the time you're forced to block or forever hold the knees. Also I'd make his st.HP CC do a knockback type crush counter like Balrog's st.HP and make his charged st.HP do a regular crumple situation. Right now counter poking vs Urien is kinda hanging yourself. Urien is one of the most fun & versatile characters to play in the game though, so to make him not fun anymore would be really disappointing.
Balrog's OD as well but I don't necessarily want to see him get nerfed either. Maybe either make his ex straight/low -2 or -3 so it's definitely not his turn afterwards or make it a bit slower so you don't get bopped for walking forward. Same issue has ex shoulder from Urien though, the input lag in the game makes moves like this in the game a lot stronger than they should be since walking & blocking isn't always the most viable approach vs those specials. If I were to nerf Rog in one way though, I'd revert his cr.MK to hitting mid and not low. Keep the 2nd hit of the target combo hitting low though. I'd also make his cr.LK a mid as well so the V-Trigger mixup doesn't result in an instant loss lol. So this way you can walk backwards against Balrog safely instead of kinda being forced to crouch block and for him to do his cr.MK TC because you already know it's coming because trying to play footsies in that situation usually isn't in your favour.
It's hard not to be biased and downplay Laura because after having to struggle for a year, finally getting to eat, then after 2 months people (who ate all of last year) want to take your plate away because they're not enjoying the taste of their own medicine but I digress.
Laura doesn't need the +1 elbow. Nobody asked for it in the first place lol. If it were to stay, maybe just off of ex command throw only instead of getting it off of many different situations. She really doesn't need it.
Revert her st.MK to 6f again, but keep it +3 on hit. An issue she had in S1 was getting opportunities in neutral since she didn't have many links outside of counter hit. So it'd still go into cr.MP on CH, st.LP on regular hit, but won't combo into st.MK on counter hit and it won't be as good/fast in neutral.
That's another issue that comes up. Attacks into VT on block shouldn't put you in a mixup situation imo. Making them maybe -2 on block, but keeping it really + on hit is how it should be. Laura does st.MK on block - VT cancel then it's a 50/50 of grab or attack. Lot's of characters do put you into situations like these off of VT cancel on block, but it shouldn't still be their turn after. You hit confirmed wrong, you shouldn't still be able to take advantage of it lol.
If they were to fix in the input lag and get it down to like 4f, all the top tier characters are inadvertently nerfed. Lots of characters are nerfed that way in general, but the game would be so much better to play.
Also Necalli is still getting away with robbery in broad daylight but everyone's pointing fingers elsewhere smfh
Idk Laura is pretty good.
CountBlack
Member
she needs a DP tbh
TheSpoiler
Member
Who was worse
Laura this season or Mika last season
Laura this season or Mika last season
CountBlack
Member
thatsbait.gif
sixteen-bit
Member
Laura has 1K health. At least Mika died faster, lol.
J_Macgrady
Member
Mika for me. Playing against R Mika last year felt like I was always in the corner even if I wasn't there.
Huw_Dawson
Member
I'm not personally sure if SFV is a deep enough game to facilitate the SF4-style meta where both tier whores and character specialists lived in peace together. :/
UcchedavÄda
Member
Rog would need to take a lot of nerfs before I jump off that train. I having a lot of fun with him and I still have a lots and lots of room to grow, even if his 50/50 game were to be greatly nerfed (it's something I still barely apply!). Making his crLK and crMK hit mid would probably do it, though, cause that would be frustrating as hell.
TheSpoiler
Member
If the patch does its job, the former is going to suffer and the latter is going to thrive, but it's not like tier whores won't be able to stick around for some advantages. It just won't be as prevalent as before.
Doctrine Dark
Member
This game needs to be careful with the way nerfs are handed out. Game can already get dull as fuck at times. I don't want them to make it even worse by overdoing it with the nerf bat.
TheSpoiler
Member
The goal should be letting everyone go raw with their v-triggers and v-skills. Let that shit come out more. Let it be like FADC, but without making the game stupid. Like, when Ryu pops his trigger, that shit should go into some exciting combos - and it can, in some capacity - but getting him there is a damn struggle.
- Status