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[Skilletor]

Xrd's problem is most likely its visuals. I don't think its too farfetched to argue that a more realistic visual style (and violence) helped MKX while the anime (or cartoony if you don't know what anime is) aesthetic doesn't help games like GG Xrd. In regards to your financial barrier argument, SFV could be purchased for less than $30 two months after launch. And young gamers typically get at least a couple games a year so I think there isn't a huge barrier. While being free-to-play definitely would've helped at launch the audience would probably still be disappointed with the game as it is now.



You're always going to have people like that. I think its silly to not even bother because some people are lazy.

I've yet to see compelling evidence that tutorials help retain players or help a game sell.

The best selling fighting games have no tutorials (MKX, Smash), the worse selling games do (ASW games, Skullgirls, etc).

VF4:Evo had one of the best tutorials EVER in a fighting game.

Content that keeps casuals coming back is more important, imo, than tutorials. Make the game fun, make them willing to invest in an ecosystem, and maybe one day they'll move from casual to competitive.

Like I said, not against the idea, just disagree when people say that any amount of indepth tutorials is going to make gains on the playerbase.

 

[KidA Seven]

I guess this is the esport announcement?
https://twitter.com/Gfinity/status/839468645982044160

 

[Edzi]

I've yet to see compelling evidence that tutorials help retain players or help a game sell.

The best selling fighting games have no tutorials (MKX, Smash), the worse selling games do (ASW games, Skullgirls, etc).

VF4:Evo had one of the best tutorials EVER in a fighting game.

Content that keeps casuals coming back is more important, imo, than tutorials. Make the game fun, make them willing to invest in an ecosystem, and maybe one day they'll move from casual to competitive.

Like I said, not against the idea, just disagree when people say that any amount of indepth tutorials is going to make gains on the playerbase.

You're absolutely right, people who complain about tutorials are straight up just using it as an excuse for why they don't play, and it's similar to the people crying for Arcade mode. If either of those things found its way to the game, I can guarantee most of them wouldn't magically start playing the game overnight.

Most people are just not willing to put in the time and effort it takes to learn how to play a fighting game, and they want to create an excuse for why that is. Losing is hard, and in a 1v1 game there's nobody to blame but yourself. Most people don't like that.

 

[DR2K]

SFV is "hard" to play? You must have been really bad at SFIV and SF3 then. FADC's and Parries galore.

It's a lot harder to play.

SFIV had ultras, 4 ex bars, normals that didn't require you be a pixel away to land, and Focus moves. There was also much greater reward for putting time into the game and learning it's mechanics. SFV is a shallow puddle in comparison

 

[Pompadour]

Xrd's problem is most likely its visuals. I don't think its too farfetched to argue that a more realistic visual style (and violence) helped MKX while the anime (or cartoony if you don't know what anime is) aesthetic doesn't help games like GG Xrd. In regards to your financial barrier argument, SFV could be purchased for less than $30 two months after launch. And young gamers typically get at least a couple games a year so I think there isn't a huge barrier. While being free-to-play definitely would've helped at launch the audience would probably still be disappointed with the game as it is now.

I agree that despite looking gorgeous that Xrd's aesthetic is probably holding it back in the West. But I don't know if ASW cares as it does well enough in arcades where that style probably benefits the game (being these arcades are primarily in Asia).

Regardless, cheap isn't the same as free. I'm in my 30s and have more money than time, bought both SFV season passes upfront, and I don't think I'd drop $30 on a game I wasn't sure I'd like it. $5, maybe, but if it were free I might invest an hour. For teenagers and college kids I figure they'd definitely jump on it and be more put off by a small monetary barrier.

I agree that people would still be disappointed but that doesn't mean they'd stop playing. I was disappointed in SF4 over and over but I bought all updates and played the game for over a thousand hours on multiple platforms.

 

[Skilletor]

It's a lot harder to play.

SFIV had ultras, 4 ex bars, normals that didn't require you be a pixel away to land, and Focus moves. There was also much greater reward for putting time into the game and learning it's mechanics. SFV is a shallow puddle in comparison

SF5 is harder to play because it has less things to learn than SF4.

...okay.

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

Don't forget all those easy one frame links

 

[CountBlack]

SFIV best game

 

[myco666]

SFIV is way harder to play. It actually requires tight execution, especially compared to SFV. Still can't do shit in that game.

 

[Moaradin]

SFIV best game

Spoiler

loved SF4, but it became impossible for me to go back to after the SFV betas.

 

[Skilletor]

I've been playing fighters so long that it's just hilarious to me to see the same arguments pop up every time a new sequel drops.

 

[Ucchedavāda]

Spoiler

loved SF4, but it became impossible for me to go back to after the SFV betas.

Are you me?

 

[mbpm1]

sfiv is harder for sure

 

[sixteen-bit]

SFIV best game

If Elena and Dee Jay come to SFV would u change ur mind?

 

[CountBlack]

SFIV is a beautiful game of chess

SFV is a Cleveland Browns football game

If Elena and Dee Jay come to SFV would u change ur mind?

Deejay could have potential to be top 5 just off of his kit....

too bad we'll never seen that

 

[Dahbomb]

SF4 is definitely harder to play. More mechanics, both intended and unintended to learn and master too. Harder execution to boot.

That alone doesn't make either game better or worse than the other or when it comes to depth/variety etc. Just because you have complexities doesn't mean you have more depth.

 

[Rickenslacker]

The only thing hard about SF4 was how skewed things were in frame link tightness versus the large reversal windows and bevy of invincible reversals. Focus attack is what I'd consider one of the most convoluted mechanics ever added to the series. Ultras were lame. USF4 felt like an amateurish last effort. SF4 was great for its fanservice roster, but I really can't stand going back to actually playing it.

 

[Pompadour]

I've been playing fighters so long that it's just hilarious to me to see the same arguments pop up every time a new sequel drops.

As soon as I saw people labeled '16ers I knew this cycle would never end.

I fully expect one day people will be called '23ers, people will talk about how much better SFV was than SF6, and SF4 would be the cult favorite

Spoiler

that nobody plays.

 

[sixteen-bit]

As soon as I saw people labeled '16ers I knew this cycle would never end.

I fully expect one day people will be called '23ers, people will talk about how much better SFV was than SF6, and SF4 would be the cult favorite

Spoiler

that nobody plays.

How come no one ever has kind words for SF1? I mean, there has to be some fans. Isn't it the most balanced one? kappa

 

[TheSpoiler]

As soon as I saw people labeled '16ers I knew this cycle would never end.

I fully expect one day people will be called '23ers, people will talk about how much better SFV was than SF6, and SF4 would be the cult favorite

Spoiler

that nobody plays.

That would mean SF3 would become the best game in the series like SF2 is, and SF2 would be the equivalent of SF1.

How come no one ever has kind words for SF1? I mean, there has to be some fans. Isn't it the most balanced one? kappa

I didn't have to see Ryu's nasty ass feet in that game. That's about the best thing I can say for that game.

 

[Pompadour]

That would mean SF3 would become the best game in the series like SF2 is, and SF2 would be the equivalent of SF1.

So you mean the truth?

 

[Dahbomb]

The real SF chess is SF1.

Balanced, all characters have the same tools, all mind games/tactics/footsies, no external mechanics.

And the game is bland, boring and just plain unfun. If people wanted perfect balance and chess game play then they would play chess or checkers or whatever.

 

[MCD250]

I've been playing fighters so long that it's just hilarious to me to see the same arguments pop up every time a new sequel drops.

I never saw it myself since I was away from gaming at the time, but I've heard that at the time of release SFIV was often derided for being shallow/simple compared to older games.

The wheel turns, I suppose.

Anyway, I dunno why we argue about this stuff since everyone knows Alpha is, always has been and always will be the best.

 

[mbpm1]

The real SF chess is SF1.

Balanced, all characters have the same tools, all mind games/tactics/footsies, no external mechanics.

And the game is bland, boring and just plain unfun. If people wanted perfect balance and chess game play then they would play chess or checkers or whatever.

We're gonna get back to that with SFVI don't worry

 

[CountBlack]

I remember when people would command throw Balrog's ex rush punches on reaction in neutral in 4.

in 5 you can't eem walk/block them joints

 

[ColonialHawk]

If SFIV is chess, then im more of a checkers man.

 

[Rickenslacker]

If it was better balanced, 3S would be perfection. It's perhaps the best in terms of being intuitive to get into but also having the ceiling of incredibly demanding play. No other SF game could have an "evo moment 37".

 

[Village]

I like SF4 more because of the roster as of currently. There is game play stuff aswell, but I don't HATE SFV's gameplay so a good roster could boost its score up.

I found this dope remix of rog's theme from alpha 3, gonna replace rog's theme in game with that

 

[DR2K]

SF5 is harder to play because it has less things to learn than SF4.

...okay.

It's a less organic experience. Guessing isn't a cohesive mechanic.

Do a 50/50 into a 50/50 into another 50/50, hit that optimal combo. Sway back and forth at close range until you can land a throw or CC, rinse repeat. Weakened anti air options, no invincible srk, no comeback mechanic, etc.. Not to mention huge character imbalances.

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

Do a 50/50 into a 50/50 into another 50/50, hit that optimal combo. Sway back and forth at close range until you can land a throw or CC, rinse repeat. Weakened anti air options, no invincible srk, no comeback mechanic, etc.. Not to mention huge character imbalances.

You literally do this and much more in SF4, because option selects are rampant in that game.

 

[Shinriji]

SFV favours offensive play, and thank god for that.

 

[TheSpoiler]

It's a less organic experience. Guessing isn't a cohesive mechanic.

Do a 50/50 into a 50/50 into another 50/50, hit that optimal combo. Sway back and forth at close range until you can land a throw or CC, rinse repeat. Weakened anti air options, no invincible srk, no comeback mechanic, etc.. Not to mention huge character imbalances.

Are you saying that SF4 as less character imbalances than SFV?

Uhhhhhhhhh

 

[DR2K]

You literally do this and much more in SF4, because option selects are rampant in that game.

You also have a comeback mechanic and more effective tools at your disposal. Making the game easier to play.

 

[mbpm1]

It might favour offensive play, but some characters are definitely a lot less able to apply that to their plan vs others

 

[ColonialHawk]

You also have a comeback mechanic and more effective tools at your disposal. Making the game easier to play.

V-trigger isn't a comeback mechanic?

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

You also have a comeback mechanic and more effective tools at your disposal. Making the game easier to play.

..how? I don't think anyone here still understands how you think having a 100 and 1 things to learn in sf4 makes it easier to play than sf5.

I'm literally incapable of doing a FA dash cancel charge ultra still to this day.

 

[TheSpoiler]

CAs are a comeback mechanic as well.

And yeah, trigger is literally a powerup for most characters, x-factor for others, combo extenders, etc.

 

[DR2K]

V-trigger isn't a comeback mechanic?

Not really, it varies from character to character and has situational uses. Whereas most ultras gave you an invincible super move at no cost to your super meter, that could wipe away half the health bar.

 

[Rickenslacker]

CAs are a comeback mechanic as well.

And yeah, trigger is literally a powerup for most characters, x-factor for others, combo extenders, etc.

CAs aren't a comeback mechanic -- I mean, yes, they can stage comebacks, but it's not an explicit design intention unlike Ultras and X-Factor where you are designed to get them from taking damage and can use them to turn the tables.

 

[Pompadour]

You also have a comeback mechanic and more effective tools at your disposal. Making the game easier to play.

I think you're confusing easier to play with easier to win. SF4 was easier to win in the lower ranks because mashing Ultra on wake up or while blocking often paid off (and did huge damage). The next rung up, skillwise, was people who learned to just block on their opponent's wake up as invariably their opponent would do Ultra as soon as they had it.

Vanilla 4 had so many bad players who hadn't touched a fighting game since SF2 or MK3 that there was plenty of terrible opponents to keep them from feeling dominated. And even if they were on the verge of losing the game gave them a hail mary.

 

[mnz]

If SFIV is chess, then im more of a checkers man.

Aren't we all

https://youtu.be/FfTS2ODtkqM?t=2m4s

 

[Skilletor]

It's a less organic experience. Guessing isn't a cohesive mechanic.

Do a 50/50 into a 50/50 into another 50/50, hit that optimal combo. Sway back and forth at close range until you can land a throw or CC, rinse repeat. Weakened anti air options, no invincible srk, no comeback mechanic, etc.. Not to mention huge character imbalances.

Acting like delayed wakeup wasn't a response to vortex characters and unblockable setups being so rampant in SF4 right here. lol.

Whatever, ya'll. Go play SF4, lol.

You'd have seen a lot more throw whiffs in SF4 if you didn't get a crouching short because of crouch tech.

 

[TheSpoiler]

CAs aren't a comeback mechanic -- I mean, yes, they can stage comebacks, but it's not an explicit design intention unlike Ultras and X-Factor where you are designed to get them from taking damage and can use them to turn the tables.

Well, the term combeback mechanic is pretty much about getting something for losing. Thus, coming back. The variance between games has widen - before you'd just get meter and apply that to a super, but nowadays you get meter to apply it to ex-moves OR a CA. They don't work like Ultras or X-Factors, but by technicality, they are pretty much like Supers in SF4. But fair point that they aren't just like Ultras though.

 

[mbpm1]

Aren't we all

https://youtu.be/FfTS2ODtkqM?t=2m4s

mikapic.jpg

 

[ColonialHawk]

Not really, it varies from character to character and has situational uses. Whereas most ultras gave you an invincible super move at no cost to your super meter, that could wipe away half the health bar.

V-trigger is still a comeback mechanic, just a different comeback mechanic.

Its like mix a between an ultra and X-factor.

 

[MCD250]

I'd call V-Triggers a comeback mechanic. Just maybe one that is not as extensive in its effects as Ultras were. If Ultras allowed you to "turn the tables" on your opponent, V-Triggers merely allow you to reset it (at least to some degree).

Big damage/stun is SFV's true comeback mechanic tbh.

 

[mnz]

The V-Trigger isn't necessarily the comeback factor. But the V-Trigger activation often is. Actually two different gameplay mechanics.

 

[Producer]

i think i hate balrog more out of all the new top tiers

 

[Rickenslacker]

Rog's V-Trigger is a comeback mechanic. ;^;

 

[vulva]

I remember when people would command throw Balrog's ex rush punches on reaction in neutral in 4.

in 5 you can't eem walk/block them joints

I used to ultra 1 rush punches on reaction in 4. I miss being able to play as reactive as I used to. That said, there's something fun about being about to just go in sometimes.