-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Street Fighter V |OTVII| New Generation - Connection To Haters Was Lost
- Thread starter Reizo Ryuu
- Start date
- Status
yes thanks
Ken isn't bad though, and neither are characters like Chun or Mika. Yeah, they're not as top tier as they were last season, but is that really the only reason so many people played them? You've commented a few times about how unhappy you are with Ken, and I can sympathize to an extent since nerfs to your character suck in general, but a lot of the time it just sounds like you want him to be YOLO top tier Ken again and that's it.
TheSpoiler
Member
Is Rogs overhead a true 50/50 when you can just block high both times? Like you either block high or block high. It's reactable and he's negative on block in both cases.
For Mika, I think it's that she was pretty easy to win with at a lower level. Abusable clap and cr.HP, along with being a command grab character, meant she was pretty much a newbie killer, and she could do well at relatively higher levels by using those.
Now I think she's genuinely difficult to win withand not just relative to her S1 selfwhich is why she got dropped so hard by everyone. I think Chun-Li got dropped hard for similar reasons; all I know is she seemed pretty precise/technical in S1, but she was crazy powerful alongside that.
There's an appeal to having a hill to climb in every match, and I'm sure FANG and Alex players know that feel a whole lot more than I do, but it gets old kinda quickly. I pick a character like Balrog and I just feel "safe" and comfortable, even if I'm getting my ass beat. I guess that's the appeal of choosing a top tier.
It's too fast for that when you're dealing with V-Trigger punches in your face. You're not taking into account that when he turns around with his V-Skill, it's part of the OH's startup: so you need to then think fast when you see him doing that.
Yep. That's what everyone keeps looking at, even in S1 with the Mikas who would take tournaments: the top Mikas who are the best players in the world. Not everyone is a top player, and not everyone has the skill to make her shine in that way. That goes for all characters, but there are characters who are easier to win with at lower levels than others.
I look at the Mika Discord and it's pretty sad how we all look up to them, but we keep going back to if we should even be playing her because it's pretty tough to emulate what they do. Meanwhile, I looked at the Balrog Discord when the 2.5 patch notes dropped and it was fireworks. Even the Birdie Discord was pretty happy.
So? I'm not talking about the character's viability in top level tournament play. Clearly, she can perform.
All I see you saying here is that she's not top tier and therefore not really worth playing. I'm sorry, but I don't really agree with that.
Unless you're saying Mika is actually low tier?
TheSpoiler
Member
That's fair, but it seemed like he was talking about the OH in general and not when Rog hits his trigger.
Nah, this isn't even about where she is placed in the tier list. A character can be the highest of tiers, but still be extremely difficult to win with (see: Zato-1 in Guilty Gear Xrd). It's about those who don't have the skills of the top players wondering if they should even stick with the character anymore because they could instead be having an easier time with another.
Oh, was that a reference to something a commentator said? Sorry, wasn't watching; missed the context, then.
In this sense, I'm mostly using "top tier" to essentially mean easy to win with. Not every character has to be braindead/easy to win with to be worth playing. I dunno, it just seems like people are freaking out that their characters went from godlike to just good, which is kind of hard to sympathize with.
I find this especially weird coming from you though, since you kind of are a top Mika player who's doing pretty well with her.
TheSpoiler
Member
No that was what Omni said.
And if players want to drop characters for an easier time, that's really on them and I don't blame them either way. Everyone plays for different reasons, and personally I just wanna have fun and be viable enough to take a few matches at my locals. I'll probably hit Gold next month and hover around that skill level because I'm not really focused on competing seriously (rather, I'm more focused on understanding the game, plus applying that knowledge has always been hard because I freeze up sometimes!).
I just think people should make sure that if they want to go for the easier character, and they want to play seriously, that they should make sure the character fits them. You can play Rog and be decent while scumming off wins, but if the character doesn't fit, you aren't going to be playing at your best.
It's a 50/50 because he can go high or low and combo off of both.
Also I laughed at the thought of something being reactable in SF5.
I think the 50/50 with Rog comes to play when he does the V-Skill and can either go overhead or low.
TheSpoiler
Member
I forgot about just doing the spin and going into his low. Was only thinking about the OH itself. Oops.
Zombegoast
Member
Capcom still not going to fix Karin's CA in the corner.
I think specifically in Mika's case, it's different because of how she needs to be played. She's the only grappler in the game who lacks plus buttons and has less than 1000 health. She's built around taking risks, but the reward for them isn't necessarily that great anymore either, and I guess that's starting to be felt among those who stuck with her. That's why I was saying previously, I think that's why she's one of the characters who got dropped significantly. Before, it was the same story, but she had super powerful tools that compensated for it.
And, eh, there's a difference between all Mika players, including me, and the likes of the 3 notable ones. They play so differently, it's crazy. Even I'm constantly hesitating because there's the perfect analog of a "better" Mika in Laura, but I'm sticking with her because... I'm starting to not know why.
I lost what I quoted but Ken's whole kit includes a strong low and throw game and 2 overheads, one he can feint as well as combo on hit.
Rog's overhead is slower and even more unsafe. Unless it's on hit, all of them are negative enough to jab him out before he can vskill crLK which I think is his fastest option? Homeboy is even in CH state too.
Rog's overhead is slower and even more unsafe. Unless it's on hit, all of them are negative enough to jab him out before he can vskill crLK which I think is his fastest option? Homeboy is even in CH state too.
UcchedavÄda
Member
Gamerbee vs JWong was pretty good.
What's wrong with it in the corner? There's a long list of things to fix with Karin.
It misses sometimes, but it's fine tbh. Good players rarely drop it by now.
Well...
TheSpoiler
Member
Losing to Chris T.
Wew lad.
Wew lad.
Zombegoast
Member
Even Chris T 2-0 Ricki.
At least her lighting kicks requires less mash inputs right?
At least her lighting kicks requires less mash inputs right?
sixteen-bit
Member
Sandbagging like Daigo did
Omnistalgic
Member
thats exactly it!! Lol...Ken was not YOLO, just look at the player who had the most success with him and how he played. he was high risk high reward to an extent but much more about footsie still a shoto. And they should have just taken away stuff obviously unfair like it being super hard to hit his air Tatsu etc...My goodness did you guys get to play Ken before he was officially in the beta? You could cancel your run after like one step! It was amazing! It's not about me liking OP characters, Ken best represents how I like to play (S1 more so) and they are making characters Vanilla for the sake of balance. I've commented about other characters too getting the nerf stick for no reason.
- Ryu was fine, just need a slight damage nerf and j.lk
- Nash was fine
- Mika should have just reverted to beta clap
These characters are becoming boring and one dimensional, and now all the fun has just moved over to Rog, Cammy, Urien, Laura, etc...it's not actually more balanced, just swapping top spots.
You can always always nerf and go down, it's like having a jump rope and adjusting it too short, you can't use it after that, but too long? Just keep snipping away. Their design philosophy suggest major Nerfs were not going to be in the game design and I think that's exactly what they did. It's not about my character, it's about the direction the game is being balanced. And we can sit here and theory talk about what would be wrong with that approach all day, but the problem is, it was never attempted.
I already know it could be worse, I'm not saying he's garbage tier, but I'm not feeling better just because you use Alex and your situation is even worse. I don't like the direction overall they are taking. And I'm gonna speak out about it because that's how changed happen. How many people were lol'ing about me ranting over the DP change? That nonsense got reverted didn't it? I'm not spitting out bs, I genuinely think S1 characters mostly unchanged would be a more fun game right now.
UcchedavÄda
Member
Dumb question: What DP changes got reverted?
Omnistalgic
Member
do you play Ken? I'd love to see how successful you are using his feint? It is very situational and like I said way too slow to use outside a hard knockdown. Rog's overhead for a number of reasons is great, you are not using actual gameplay logic but just talking what's unsafe and what's not, not what's actually difficult to react to.
And we're not including Ibuki who has a great one as well. Your post was implying Ken's TK being -2 was some absurdly good took and I argued against it, Ken having a good overall kit was not the debate in the first place.
direct_quote
Member
Should have given Ken his 3f jab back if they are keeping his stubby normals.
Omnistalgic
Member
Changed frames soUcchedavāda;232268315 said:
- LP DP beat throws
- MP works better as an AA
- HP has FB invincibility and better frames to snip normals
It's not season 1 with full invincibility on the first frame but far better than what they initially did and sound pretty balanced now. Before it really hurt the shoto defense imo.
- Status